IGF2024

Summary

This panel discussion focused on the challenges of misinformation and disinformation in the digital age, particularly in light of emerging technologies like AI. Participants from government, international organizations, and the private sector explored the sources, impacts, and potential solutions to combat false information online.

Key points included the rapid spread of misinformation through social media platforms and messaging apps, which has been exacerbated by AI tools that can create highly convincing fake content. Panelists noted that while misinformation has always existed, its reach and speed have increased dramatically in the digital era. They emphasized that not all misinformation is equally harmful, but some can have serious consequences, such as during the COVID-19 pandemic.

The discussion highlighted the need for a multi-stakeholder approach involving governments, tech companies, civil society, and international organizations to address this complex issue. Suggestions included developing AI-powered detection tools, implementing content moderation practices, and promoting digital literacy. However, panelists also stressed the importance of balancing efforts to combat misinformation with protecting freedom of expression and avoiding censorship.

Several speakers mentioned ongoing initiatives and regulations, such as the EU’s Digital Services Act, as potential models for addressing misinformation. The importance of international cooperation and forums like the Internet Governance Forum for sharing best practices was emphasized.

The panel concluded by acknowledging the challenges of the rapidly evolving digital landscape and the need for flexible, innovative approaches to combat misinformation while preserving an open internet and freedom of speech. Participants agreed that supporting accurate, quality information is crucial in countering the root causes of misinformation.

Keypoints

Major discussion points:

– The rapid spread and increasing sophistication of misinformation, especially through social media and AI technologies

– The need for collaboration between governments, tech companies, civil society and other stakeholders to combat misinformation

– Balancing freedom of expression with protecting users from harmful misinformation

– The importance of digital literacy and critical thinking skills to build societal resilience

– Developing effective regulations and technologies to detect and mitigate misinformation

Overall purpose:

The goal of this panel discussion was to examine the current landscape of digital misinformation, explore strategies and technologies to combat it, and discuss how different stakeholders can work together to address this complex challenge.

Tone:

The overall tone was serious and concerned about the threats posed by misinformation, but also constructive in proposing solutions. Panelists spoke with urgency about the need to act, while also emphasizing the importance of careful, balanced approaches that preserve freedom of expression. The tone remained consistent throughout, with panelists building on each other’s points collaboratively.

Speakers

– Barbara Carfagna: Italian journalist, moderator of the panel

– Deemah Al-Yahya: Secretary General of the Digital Cooperation Organization

– Khaled Mansour: Member of Meta Oversight Board

– Esam Alwagait: Director of the National Information Center Saudi Data and AI Authority

– Natalia Gherman: Assistant Secretary General, Executive Director of the UN Counter-Terrorism Committee Executive Directorate

– Mohammed Ali Al-Qaed: Chief Executive, Information and Government Authority, Kingdom of Bahrain

– Pearse O’Donohue: Director for the Future Networks Directorate of DigiConnect European Commission

Expanded Summary: Combating Misinformation in the Digital Age

This panel discussion, moderated by Italian journalist Barbara Carfagna, brought together experts from government, international organisations, and the private sector to explore the challenges of misinformation and disinformation in the digital age. The participants examined the sources, impacts, and potential solutions to combat false information online, with a particular focus on the role of emerging technologies like artificial intelligence (AI).

Sources and Spread of Misinformation

The panellists agreed that social media platforms have become the primary conduits for the rapid spread of misinformation. Esam Alwagait, Director of the National Information Center Saudi Data and AI Authority, identified these platforms as the main source of misinformation spread. Natalia Gherman, Assistant Secretary General and Executive Director of the UN Counter-Terrorism Committee Executive Directorate, highlighted that unmoderated online spaces are major hubs for misinformation and terrorist content. Mohammed Ali Al-Qaed, Chief Executive of the Information and Government Authority in Bahrain, noted that social media algorithms often promote sensational content, exacerbating the problem.

The discussion emphasised that while misinformation has always existed, its reach and speed have increased dramatically in the digital era. Gherman pointed out that influencers with large followings can rapidly spread misinformation, while Khaled Mansour, Member of Meta Oversight Board, observed that a lack of access to accurate information contributes to the spread of false narratives. Specific examples of misinformation during the COVID-19 pandemic and elections were mentioned to illustrate the real-world impact of this issue.

Mansour made a particularly thought-provoking comment, stating, “Misinformation kills. By spreading misinformation in conflict times from Myanmar to Sudan to Syria, this can be murderous.” This remark underscored the real-world consequences of misinformation beyond online discourse, shifting the conversation to focus on its potential for violence and harm.

Technological Solutions and Challenges

The panel explored how technology, particularly AI, can be both a source of and a solution to misinformation. Alwagait discussed how AI and machine learning tools can detect manipulated content, including the use of natural language processing to analyze linguistic patterns. Al-Qaed mentioned existing fact-checking and content verification tools, though he noted these often require user effort.

Specific technologies discussed for combating misinformation included:

– AI-driven fact-checking tools that could flag alarming content automatically

– Machine learning algorithms to analyze linguistic patterns and identify potential misinformation

– Tools to analyze video and audio content to detect manipulated media

– Crowdsourced flagging systems to leverage user input in identifying false information

Al-Qaed proposed the concept of “verify-by-design” tools that could tag information at its source, potentially providing users with immediate context about the reliability of content. This approach could offer a proactive solution to misinformation detection.

However, the discussion also acknowledged that AI technologies pose risks in generating more sophisticated fake content, highlighting the ongoing arms race between misinformation creation and detection.

Regulatory Approaches and Challenges

The panel agreed on the need for innovative regulations to combat misinformation while enabling innovation. Pearse O’Donohue, Director for the Future Networks Directorate of DigiConnect European Commission, pointed to the EU’s Digital Services Act as a potential model for other countries. He argued that regulations should put the onus on platforms to moderate content, suggesting a more active approach to content removal.

However, this view was not universally shared. Mansour advocated for a more nuanced approach, arguing that not all misinformation is harmful and that removal is not always the best solution. He suggested that labelling manipulated content can inform users without removing it entirely, preserving freedom of expression.

The discussion highlighted the challenges of regulating smaller platforms and encrypted messaging apps, which often lack the resources or infrastructure for effective content moderation. The panel also debated the merits of content removal versus labeling, considering the potential impacts on free speech and user autonomy.

O’Donohue raised an important question about the challenges of regulation, asking, “If a government or a regulatory authority decides to step in and decide on what is misinformation and what is not, well then who moderates the regulator?” This comment led to a more nuanced discussion about the balance between regulation and freedom of expression.

Multi-stakeholder Cooperation and Global Frameworks

There was broad consensus among the panellists on the need for collaboration between governments, tech companies, academia, and civil society to address misinformation effectively. Deemah Al-Yahya, Secretary General of the Digital Cooperation Organization, emphasised this multi-stakeholder approach.

Gherman highlighted the importance of international forums like the Internet Governance Forum (IGF) in enabling stakeholders to develop unified strategies. She also stressed the need for global cooperation and frameworks to address misinformation on a broader scale.

The panel discussed the merits of global versus regional approaches to regulation. Al-Qaed suggested that regional cooperation could give smaller countries more influence when dealing with tech companies, potentially leading to more effective solutions. There was also a call for more focused global and regional events to develop unified strategies against misinformation.

Balancing Free Speech and User Protection

A recurring theme throughout the discussion was the need to balance efforts to combat misinformation with protecting freedom of expression and avoiding censorship. Mansour emphasised that misinformation policies must balance protecting users and preserving free speech. He argued for solutions grounded in human rights principles, a point echoed by Gherman.

The panel discussed potential unintended consequences of countering misinformation, such as impacts on human rights and freedom of expression. They stressed the importance of considering these factors when developing policies and technologies to address false information.

O’Donohue suggested a nuanced approach, stating, “Not all misinformation can be classified as bad, and that we therefore need a gradual response. And of course, we preserve our most direct and intrusive measures for those content, which is clearly supporting terrorist, criminal, or other dangerous philosophies or content.” This comment encouraged a more refined approach to addressing misinformation, moving away from blanket solutions towards more targeted, context-specific strategies.

Promoting Accurate Information and Digital Literacy

The panel agreed that supporting accurate, credible information is crucial in countering misinformation. Mansour particularly emphasised this point, suggesting that promoting good information could be an effective strategy to counter misinformation at its root.

The importance of digital literacy and critical thinking skills in building societal resilience against misinformation was also discussed. While specific strategies for improving these skills were not elaborated upon, the panel recognized their crucial role in empowering users to navigate the complex information landscape.

Conclusion

The panel concluded by acknowledging the challenges of the rapidly evolving digital landscape and the need for flexible, innovative approaches to combat misinformation while preserving an open internet and freedom of speech. While there was general agreement on the severity of the problem and the need for multi-stakeholder collaboration, differences emerged in the specific strategies and priorities for addressing misinformation.

The discussion highlighted several unresolved issues, including how to effectively regulate smaller, unmoderated online spaces, address misinformation in encrypted messaging apps and private groups, and develop a standardised approach to defining and classifying harmful versus non-harmful misinformation.

Moving forward, the panellists suggested developing innovative regulations, creating public-private partnerships, implementing AI-driven fact-checking tools, establishing ‘verify-by-design’ mechanisms, and organising more focused global and regional events to develop unified strategies against misinformation. The overall tone of the discussion was serious yet constructive, emphasising the urgency of addressing misinformation while also calling for careful, balanced approaches that preserve fundamental rights and freedoms.

Barbara Carfagna: Hello, everybody. I’m proud to be here. I’m an Italian journalist. I’m proud to be here to open this important session for keep our peace in society. Chatbot and Deepfake are transforming cyber threats from spreading disinformation to enhancing terrorist capabilities and as governments and tech companies struggle to keep up propaganda, disinformation, recruitment and operational planning. In the 80s, cyber threats were about hacking into computers to extract information. Then it escalated. In the next following years, you could get into a computer, change the software and cause damage to physical system controlled by it. But now the cyberspace has become a tool not to get information or cause physical harm, but influence public opinion. Terrorists and criminals are exploiting AI tools while warning of the unpreparedness of regulatory bodies, tech companies and law enforcement but to address this emerging threats. Generative AI is easy to use. You can create fake news, but this is an old world compared to Deepfake. We are used to thought that represents something existing, but for the first time in this moment we can produce photos of something that doesn’t correspond to anything true. There are some filters in the system, but jailbreaking is a technique that can trick AI filters and it’s very easy to use as well. Changing the prompt is one of the techniques, so we need stronger safeguards. How to fight against this? This is the purpose of our panel. Focus on content and explaining that it’s fake doesn’t work anymore. An organized campaign with bots and influencers spread the message to millions of people in ten seconds. So focus on the content is not more so useful as it would be in the first phase. One solution is focus on the behavior of the message in real time. This is one of the challenges. Through tools that analyze the spread in social networks. But with our panelists we will have a complete overview from rules, technological side and cultural and educational side. So I welcome our panelists starting from Esam Alwagait, Director of the National Information Center Saudi Data and AI Authority, welcome. Then, Mrs. Deemah Alyahya, Secretary General of the Digital Cooperation Organization, welcome. Her Excellency, Mr. Mohammed Ali Al-Qaed, Chief Executive, Information and Government Authority, Kingdom of Bahrain, welcome. Assistant Secretary General, Mrs. Natalia Gherman, Executive Director of the UN Counterterrorism Committee, Executive Directorate, welcome. Mr. Pearse O’Donohue, Director for the Future Networks Directorate of DigiConnect European Commission, welcome. Mr. Khaled Mansour, Member of Meta Oversight Board, welcome. Mr. Pearse O’Donohue, Director for the Future Networks Directorate of DigiConnect European Commission, welcome. Starting from Mrs. Dima Al-Yahya, what are the most prevalent digital sources contributing to the spread of information today and how has the landscape evolved in the recent years? Starting from Mrs. Deemah Al-Yahya, what are the most prevalent digital sources contributing to the spread of information today and how has the landscape evolved in the recent years? Maybe we can use that mic? I can’t hear. You see, you didn’t read me. Let’s talk. Thank you. Oh, yes.

Deemah Al-Yahya: Well, thank you very much, and it’s great to start a morning with a subject so important and so profound at this point of time, with the increase of not only us celebrating new innovations and the progression of emerging technologies, but also looking at how can we safeguard the use of the internet. We’ve seen that the internet has opened amazing opportunities for prosperity of humans and people, either by increasing productivity to increasing the quality of life. And we do see that the platforms as well, like social media platforms, have been tools to help in finding jobs, as well as education. But then we come to a very big issue, which is the harmful part of the internet and using social media platforms, which is the misinformation and harmful use of information. What is very much alarming as well is that for us to benefit more from AI, for instance, these algorithms are built on existing data online. And that data, if it’s false and fake news, that is a very big challenge in terms of the resources for AI. And this is why we truly see that such issue, when you ask me that question, you cannot pinpoint one independent institution or entity or a person that is responsible for such. It is a collective responsibility from governments to private sector and the innovators to human capital as well and the civil society. And therefore, we have to look at this challenge with a collective eye and a united force for collaboration. And this is why in the DCO, what we have have created is a facilitation of bringing in the governments with the innovators and the civil society to think together, to co-create and co-design initiatives and the way forward to reduce such kind of issue. Thank you.

Barbara Carfagna: Mr. Khaled Mansour, I ask you the same question. So which are the sources contributed to the spread of misinformation today?

Khaled Mansour: Thank you very much. Sabah al-kheir. As-salamu alaykum. Don’t worry, don’t run to your translators. I will speak in English. It’s a week from today that the regime of Bashar al-Assad has fallen down in Syria. And with it came a flood of people coming out from prisons and a flood of images on social media, jubilation, happiness, mothers embracing their sons and daughters in many cases. But in parallel, there was also a flood of lies, rumors, and misinformation, what we call it. And many of our friends, colleagues, politicians, and journalists have swallowed this in a very gullible manner because the main sources of digital spread of misinformation are as old as humanity. Since people started to communicate, there have been lies, there have been ignorance, deception, willful and non-willful. There has been self-interest, exaggeration, biases, et cetera, et cetera. What has changed in the last 15 to 20 years is the exacerbation and the acceleration of this trend. Access. All of us are glued to our smartphones from Bangladesh to Mexico. The flood. I mean, there’s a flood of information all the time. All of us wake up in the morning and first thing we scroll. And the last thing before we sleep, we scroll. Meta alone, on whose oversight board I serve, has 3 to 4 billion users. This means 3 to 4 billion pieces of content immediately. I mean, everything is immediate. Long time ago, in this country, when you write a bad poem and you are bad-mouthing somebody, a month later, he will write a poem in return. Or in the New York Times, if you write a bad op-ed, a week later, there will be an op-ed. Now it’s immediate. There is immediacy, and people don’t wait to check and make sure whether the information they are using are misinformation or not. And technology, as the speaker before me speak, the AI technology makes it even much easier to make misinformation look far more believable. And finally, coordinated campaigns by governments, by corporations, for marketing, and for insidious and nefarious purposes. So it is important to know what is the source of misinformation if we need to address it and address it well. And I think all of us, in various ways, individuals, governments, corporations, are implicated into this. And the main victim, one of the main victims that we don’t really speak about, it’s not that we are deceived by misinformation. Over time, the worse and deeper effect is undermining public trust in information we receive from the media or from social media platforms. Everything appears and becomes fake news. Misinformation, I mean, all of us know, was catapulted into our debates, public debates, et cetera, et cetera, in 2016 in the US, because of the elections in the US. And then for all of us, because of COVID and that high level of misinformation we all had. There was harm, perceived to be harm to the elections, as well as harm. But there’s another very important concern that we pay, we don’t pay attention to, which is the lack of accurate information and good media all around since then. While we are trying to fight misinformation, I’m trying to conclude here, we have to do this by avoiding censorship in repressive environments while avoiding exacerbating violence because I started by the flood of happy images from Syria and the flood of misinformation. Misinformation kills. By spreading misinformation in conflict times from Myanmar to Sudan to Syria, this can be murderous. It’s very important to think that one of the very reasons of the spread of misinformation is lack of access to accurate information, what is currently called information integrity. Information integrity is in trouble and accurate information from credible media sources have declined or faced tough times due to economic reasons. Others also have mounting challenge to analyze, dissect the flood that we already spoke about because there’s a persistent need to cultivate the critical ability. All my good friends, academics and doctors and politicians who believe a lot of the stuff that’s coming from Syria, that’s misinformation, they actually also need to cultivate their ability at reading, understanding and analyzing media much better. Thank you.

Barbara Carfagna: Okay. Thank you. So, what we see, and as I told you in the introduction, is something like if the attacks that before were on infrastructures, now we have in our minds. So it’s very important to understand this, that this is sort of a war field. of battle, this new situation where we are getting in after generative AI introduced this technique does so fast, so fast, can’t make a reason meant on them. So, Mr. Esam Alwagait I’ll get, I ask you the same question about the most prevalent prevalent digital sources.

Esam Alwagait: Sure. So when we talk about misinformation, we have to understand two things. First of all, how fast it propagates. And second of all, the coverage or the reach of this misinformation, because let’s face it, misinformation has always been there. But before it used to be within a limited reach, and it used to propagate much, much, much slower. Nowadays, with the internet, with the social media, misinformation propagates much faster, and almost everywhere. So let me give you some stats by a report or by survey by the UNESCO. 68% of the people say that they get their news from social media. 38% they get it from online messaging. And this is a shocking fact, only 20% they get it from the online media. So it’s obvious that the main source for propagating misinformation is the social media. So what is misinformation or what are the forms of misinformation? I would like to classify it in two parts. The first one is the intentional misinformation, where you have people or groups trying to actively trying to push misinformation. And nowadays, misinformation is not only text as it used to be before. Nowadays, with the help of AI, and there are a lot of tools, you can generate video and audio. And it is so realistic that the average person cannot realize that this is actually fake. So with the combination of AI tools and the social media, we have very dangerous ways of spreading misinformation. And the information integrity is more important than ever it is today. So if you ask me what is the way to spread misinformation, I would say that the main source of spreading misinformation is the social media and online messaging apps.

Barbara Carfagna: Yes. We have seen that now with generative AI, we can build also vertical generative AI. And this vertical generative AI, if you if you go to profile someone, before we could through social media, profile groups, now with generative AI, we can profile one person exactly, exactly with their tastes, and their orientation and desires, and also vulnerability. So it’s like if we have a precision weapon, and capability to build very fast, through a bot, for example, and information and fake information for him. So it’s even more and more convincing. And it is what the experts call super persuasion. You cannot persuade someone like we could do before, but super persuasion. is just for him. So this is, of course, very important for terrorism, for recruitment of terrorists, and that’s why I ask the question to Natalia Gherman, so which are the most prevalent digital sources?

Natalia Gherman: Thank you, and good morning, ladies and gentlemen. Great pleasure to be here, and just as Madam Moderator mentioned, I represent a United Nations Security Council counterterrorism entity, and my office is more focused on the spread of terrorist and violent extremist messaging online and offline. However, there are great similarities on how misinformation, as well as disinformation, and terrorist-related messaging are being created, posted, and propagated. And in terms of changing landscape, I should say that COVID-19 pandemic led, of course, to a massive rise in people joining the cyber space, and the sheer numbers of people using Internet and social media now is staggering. And we’ve also seen an explosion in the number of gaming and social media platforms, messaging systems, and online spaces. So in terms of malicious content online, we in the United Nations highlight that unmoderated spaces are major hubs for misinformation and terrorist content. And these are, first of all, social media platforms and messaging systems with deliberately lax content policies. Then there are, of course, small platforms lacking capacity. to effectively moderate content and hidden chat rooms and sites. And I also want to draw your attention to the rise of influencers with millions of followers. And when combined with algorithms pushing content, they flooded the social media and messaging services with misinformation and worse content. So we are in a time when just a handful of people can seed widespread misinformation. And two trends we in a seated counter-terrorism executive directorate have noted while assessing the member states’ capacities to prevent and counter terrorism. And they are ironically at the opposite ends of the technology spectrum. On the one hand, in dialogue with the member states, we have seen the ever-increasing use of new technologies like chatbots, generative AI and other AI-powered tools to generate and spread terrorist-related content and other malicious messaging. And this has, by the way, led to the creation of credible avatars and also deepfake video and audio used for criminal purposes and for the spread of misinformation and also to incite violence. And on the other hand, we have seen an uptick in so-called old-fashioned technologies like the use of terrorist-operated websites and human support networks to help spread messages to followers across diverse platforms. And these methods rely on hiding content in hard-to-find channels very often and also delivering it to selected audiences. But in both cases, detection, tracking, and countering the threat spread of harmful content is posing to the governments, to the member states, and to all professionals ever-increasing challenges. Thank you.

Barbara Carfagna: Thank you. Mr. Mohammed Ali Al-Qaed, same question, on the most prevalent digital sources.

Mohammed Ali Al-Qaed: It’s a great pleasure to be here on this fantastic event. And I would like to congratulate the Digital Government Authority for organizing this and for inviting me to be part of this distinguished panelist. Of course, the technological advancements, being the infrastructure or the connectivity on social media platforms, and the speed of spreading information change the behavior of the society. And many people, instead of going for the information in the traditional media, they use the new channels. I think it’s due to the fact that the behavior of people, they cannot wait. They want instant news to be there. I recall once there was a news which was aired. And somebody called me and said, you don’t know what’s going on. And I said, what was there? He said, you know, this and this happened. And then I told them. And when I looked at it, it was aired maybe 30 minutes ago. So I was late for 30 minutes gap. That, I think, and the reaction of the traditional media and the governments to this change of the behavior and the way that the people are dealing with the news, I think, created this kind of a new way of spreading the misinformation. Because everybody became a producer. And the new creators, being social media activists or many others, became the new producers of the information. The technologies. you know Attributed into that for example they’re good algorithms used by the social media that you know make the information which is more Clickable or more sensational to come on top I think that’s maybe one one reason for the for the misinformation and the other thing is the You know the more that the people try to distinguish between the fake and and the true information Deep fake and AI you know create more sophisticated content and of course the the encryptions of the Social media Platforms make it more difficult because you don’t know you cannot control and who is who is spreading what kind of information is between people themselves the societal and psychological side of it of course that you know many people whenever they Receive an information that’s for them is absolute truth, and then it’s very difficult for you to Try to you know navigate it negate it or you know take the So it’s easier to to convince, but it’s more difficult to Change that minds and of course when the messages comes from your friends and from your network again It’s more credible for you, but that’s that’s another Reason and then the fear and emotions usually spread more often and Economical side that you know the Anything that spreads more and more clickable people will will try to spread that information to get more followers and Sometimes to monetize that that content so that’s I think in and in a summary I think what happened To change the behaviors of the of the society.

Barbara Carfagna: It’s very important this point that once you convince Someone it’s very difficult to make he come back, so you have to act against misinformation and disinformation information networks before with different, of course, different methods and take the problem from different points of view. That’s why I asked the same question to Mr. Pearse O’Donohue and how the rules work for this and how they can change because it’s a technology chain so fast that how can the rule follow the speed?

Pearse O’Donohue: Thank you. Yes. Is this working?

Barbara Carfagna: I can’t hear you now.

Pearse O’Donohue: No.

Barbara Carfagna: Maybe.

Pearse O’Donohue: Somebody turn me on.

Barbara Carfagna: We can. Yes, you can get the mic, sorry.

Pearse O’Donohue: Thank you. And thank you very much for the invitation here. It’s a privilege to speak. We’ve already heard several insightful answers. So I would perhaps compliment that taking a slightly different approach, which is to identify the most prevalent sources. The first thing is to say that it’s simply the volume, the number of different sources that exist that themselves contribute as a whole to the existence and prevalence of misinformation. And that is an issue to do with everything that has been said about its prevalence but also with scope and its range and speed. The second point is that we do at some point have to make a distinction between misinformation and disinformation. But it is the existence of disinformation, which is targeted, untrue statements, facts, even now videos with AI support, to actually mislead the public or individuals. In some cases, that is so obvious that a lot of users are unaware of the more benign but nevertheless nefarious misinformation, which is affecting their choices, which is affecting their daily lives. So we do have to accept that the most prevalent sources are the social media platforms. But I would say they’re particularly those platforms which are not sufficiently moderated, do not have sufficient safeguards in place, in order to identify for, or in some cases, prevent misinformation. And that is really the role when you asked me about rules, is that we have to see what is it that can be done to guide the industry, what is it that can be done to protect the user, but of course allowing the user to choose. And that is very important when we come to an open internet. If a government or a regulatory authority decides to step in and decide on what is misinformation and what is not, well then who moderates the regulator? And that becomes a permanent issue. So the rules have to be focused on allowing the individual to choose, but protecting them from disinformation, from ensuring that the providers, the platforms, et cetera, are actually capable of moderating their content, but that that is done in an objective way, and that dangerous material is actually flagged to the individual. When it comes to terrorist activity, criminal activity, or activity which puts at risk the lives of individuals, such as for example disinformation about vaccines, then of course there is a role for government to step in, but they should put the onus on the platforms to actually achieve that, rather than directly intervening onto the content platforms themselves. So this is the context in which we have these discussions in the Internet Governance Forum, in order to actually stop people going too far, and that we actually have an understanding of how it might work.

Barbara Carfagna: And what should be the key priorities for governments when developing policies and regulation to combat misinformation?

Pearse O’Donohue: Thank you. Well, the first thing is that in a forum like this, the governments must work with the other stakeholders, many of whom are the experts in the running of the Internet, whether it is the tech… technical community, academia, civil society through their NGOs, and of course business, they can learn and work with them. It will always be more effective if it is done in that multi-stakeholder way. But what governments could do, taking their roles and legitimate responsibilities is, as I’ve said, to ensure that the framework exists, that the platforms, the providers of the social media platforms, know clearly what they must do and have put in place sufficient mechanisms of moderation, independent content moderation, but also in the ultimate cases, which hopefully should be relatively minimal, that they have the ability to rapidly take down dangerous material, criminal, terrorist, or other similar material for the protection of individuals, but also that there is a sufficient transparency and redress in the mechanisms that governments or regions put in place so that we can learn from any mistakes that we make. Obviously, we’re not always going to get it right, so that errors or mislabelling can be corrected and redress is effective to the individuals or to the companies or to the groups who may feel that they are being unnecessarily or unfairly censored, and that is a very important part. So again, an independent monitoring is critical, independent of government, academic and other experts who can objectively, independently give a view on the functioning of these processes, but also in some cases actually be the experts the content itself.

Barbara Carfagna: EU as a European Union has introduced the regulation for misinformation in the Digital Services Act. Will other countries follow and make a similar rule like it happened for the GDPR, in your opinion?

Pearse O’Donohue: Thank you. We do think that what we have done can be of interest and of use to other countries and regions. You mentioned the GDPR is a very good example. Perhaps one of the reasons why we could help others to develop their systems is because while Europe and Europeans are major consumers of the major social platforms, most of those platforms are not actually European-based or of European origin. So we have had, shall we say, a different objective than some countries. Secondly, because we have within Europe very different cultures, very different experiences, even the linguistic element is very important actually in this area, that that will help others. It’s not a unilingual system that we have had to put in place and we need to deal with multiculturalism and differences of culture, religion and ethnic tradition. So yes, but in all modesty, as I’ve said before, there is always an opportunity that in one or other area what we do isn’t quite right and we have to address. So we have to learn from our mistakes and we can learn from others. Secondly, of course, for the very reason that we want the internet to be localized to address different linguistic and ethnic cultures, there will always be a need for some modification and adaptation, for example, of the rules that are appropriate for Europe for other countries and regions. But we do feel again in the IGF and other fora that that’s exactly where we can have these discussions so that others can learn not from us but with us from the experiences, for example, of the Digital Services Act as we implement that important legislation and find tools that are appropriate for their case but which will achieve the same objective, which is an open, safe internet where there is free access to information but there is also a clear barrier to disinformation and misinformation. Thank you.

Barbara Carfagna: Thank you. Mr.Mohammed Ali Al-Qaed, what emerging technologies are proving most effective in identifying and mitigating misinformation, and how can their adoption be scaled responsibly?

Mohammed Ali Al-Qaed: There are many fact-check tools, you know, by Google and by many others, and even the image and video verification tools. The problem with those tools is that it requires the recipients to put some effort to go and look for each piece of information, which requires time and effort to verify what is going on. And those tools, of course, they’re using different technologies, but, you know, mostly we are changing to use the AI and machine learning. The legislations and the process to make them effective, I think, is the most important thing, because if we cannot identify the source of information, there is a misinformation that is spread around, and then you cannot source who started that. I think that makes it very difficult, because then the harm is there, and then you cannot find out who’s behind that piece of information. And I think if we can introduce the verify-by-design tools, that you know, tag the information, you’re not hiding, you know, or not letting the information going out, but tagging the information, so at least the user can see that tag, and then look at what is the perceptions, let’s say, of the tools about that piece of information. I think that might minimize the harm of the data which is going out. And the government of India, you know, they introduced the legislations with which is a mandate on all the social media platforms to identify the source of information. So that kind of thing, I think, of legislation is required with many other measures that I think we have to collectively work together with the society and the stakeholders.

Barbara Carfagna: Thank you. Mr. Alwagait, we have seen, I’ve been in Saddaia, so I’ve seen that study each technology and try to examinate which is the best one for the purpose you have. So what are the emerging technologies that are proving most effective in identifying and mitigating misinformation?

Esam Alwagait: Sure. So to fight misinformation, you have two issues. First of all, how to detect the fake media or information. And the second part, what do you do when you do that? So detecting misinformation, there are a lot of technologies and we have the case of fighting fire with fire. So if AI is used to generate misinformation, then you have AI tools to detect those content. For example, we have machine learning and NLPs that could analyze the linguistic patterns and detect the manipulated text. There are AI tools to analyze video and audio to detect, for example, the pitch of the sound or the facial movement and so on to detect the fake generated content by AI. So that’s detecting it. But the most important part is what do you do? And I think that there should be a collaboration between tech companies, governments, academia and international organizations to come up with innovative regulations to combat misinformation. And when I say innovative regulations, I mean the kind of regulations that does not hinder the innovation. Because we all know that sometimes too much regulations will slow down the innovation and the lack of regulation will allow cases like misinformation. So innovative regulation is a sweet spot where you have this balance between having regulations and enabling innovation. For example, in Saudi Arabia, we worked with the global AI advisory body by the UN to create more regulations for ethical. and responsible AI. We have also established the International Center for AI Research and Ethics here in Riyadh, allowing these kind of regulations and enabling ethical AI. So to combat misinformation, you have the tools detected, but you need to have the regulations that enforces these tools.

Barbara Carfagna: Do you have system to monitor the behavior of the message, the fake message? Because I think that in the speedness, maybe this is the most effective thing to do to stop, because like we heard before, if you have someone convinced you can come back. So how you try to stop the message?

Esam Alwagait: So a lot of social medias, they do have an AI driven fact checking tools, so that immediately when you have the content, it will be flagged based on how active, if there is something alarming, it will have an automatic flag. Other social medias, for example, they crowdsource this. So they would allow the online community to flag this misinformation and provide their ideas about it. So as you mentioned, sometimes the misinformation could be stopped even before it starts using these tools.

Barbara Carfagna: Okay, thank you. So starting from your consideration, how can governments, tech companies, media and civil society work together to create a unified strategy for combating misinformation? I ask you to Mrs. Natalia Gherman.

Natalia Gherman: Thank you. I believe that one way governments, tech companies, media and civil society can work together is to use international mechanisms such as Internet Governance Forum for such purpose. we have this week a fantastic opportunity here in Riyadh to put our heads together and to develop a unified strategy. And the key players must also take advantage of focused global or regional events for that purpose that are many more. And I can bring a very good example in the sense back in 2022, the United Nations Security Council Counter-Terrorist Committee organized a special meeting in India, in New Delhi, that gathered governments of the United Nations, member states, technological companies, civil society, research, academia, media, and all were researching and analyzing a very important issue of misuse of new technologies for terrorist purposes, international capacity building, and of course that all through the lens of respecting human rights. And the outcome of that meeting was the Delhi Declaration, which led to the development of the so-called non-binding guiding principles for all United Nations member states on new payment technologies, unmanned aircraft systems, and of course, information and communication technologies. My office CTAT was tasked with development of the drafts of those non-binding principles. We had to work and collaborate with more than 100 partners from the governmental sector, civil society, academia. And of course, we’ve learned a great number and a host of good practices, lessons learned, and effective operational measures. So… Some of the ideas and suggestions that were put forward by our partners included ways to counter myths and disinformation through digital and media literacy campaigns that still remains extremely relevant, teaching critical thinking skills, and building resilience at all levels of society to violent extremism and to terrorist messages. So there were also suggestions to develop guidelines for strategic communications and counter-messaging algorithms, as well as developing cross-platform reporting mechanisms. And similar efforts, both global but also focused fora and platforms, do help to build consensus and trust among relevant stakeholders. And of course, our aim should be the development of an operational plan to combat misinformation globally. So the United Nations Security Council, as always, took the lead and highlighted the need to develop public-private partnerships through voluntary cooperation to address the exploitation of information communication technologies in no less than six resolutions on counterterrorism since 2017. And in the United Nations, we are increasingly consolidating our cooperation with such partners as Tech Against Terrorism, the Christchurch Call, and the industry-led Global Internet Forum to Counterterrorism. And there are many more other good examples on private and public partnerships. So the key actors could draw on the playbook for countering terrorist narratives online as late as I said in the Security Council relevant resolutions, and also in the comprehensive international framework to counter terrorism narratives. And this framework that the United Nations offers to all member states in the world, lays measures states could take to include legal and law enforcement measures, cross-sector collaborations, and the development of strategic communications among other things. Thank you.

Barbara Carfagna: Thank you very much. Mr. Khaled Mansour, we have also seen that there are some protocols that we are trying to build, like the C2PA or others. Do they work? Or in your opinion, how can we cooperate?

Khaled Mansour: Thank you, Barbara. Let me just take two steps back since I’m the only member of this panel who doesn’t represent the government or multilateral organization. Let me take a different track at how we can have strategies to counter misinformation. Firstly, I don’t think we have to have a unified strategy. I think we are different actors, all of us. Governments have their own responsibilities. Every actor has its own interests, its own set of interests and priorities. Global regimes are not necessarily the only solution. Global transparency, a venue like that, a forum like that is a step in the right direction where we speak to each other but hold each other accountable because at the end of the day, we come from different frameworks. Secondly, people like us in the Oversight Board, and the Oversight Board is a self-regulatory body for meta-platforms. So we are independent, funded by an irrevocable trust from meta. We can tell meta to remove content or to return content that they removed and give them advice. Our guiding principle doesn’t start from safety and protection, it starts from freedom from suppression. That’s a different approach to misinformation. So, we defend freedom of expression as long as it doesn’t undermine the rights of others. So for misinformation to be labeled as such or to be removed, it must be very clear and legitimate laws in place to remove it, not ambiguous definitions to achieve unjustifiable ends and suppress views in the absence of imminent and likely harm. And this is a key word because tackling misinformation, and a lot of misinformation is just harmless, useless, to be left maybe only labeled. But tackling misinformation should be proportional to the likelihood and eminence of harm. That’s a very important distinction that we always have to make. I’m not talking about clear criminal activities, recruiting for terrorist organizations, child trafficking, all of that is clear stuff that should be handled. Because we have to admit there is a balance that we need to make between allowing people to express their views freely and protecting users from harm. Not all misinformation, and I repeat again, is harmful. But when misinformation can incite violence or undermine public safety or directly harm individuals, we need to act. And I would claim this is not the majority of pieces of misinformation. And there are various ways to handle misinformation. Removal is not necessarily the best way to approach it. For example, earlier this year, the oversight board, we told META to leave content in place with a manipulated video of President Biden. We advised META to stop removing manipulated material, that’s video, audio, text, which is manipulated by AI or otherwise, unless the content clearly violates policies. is, again, pornography, child trafficking, terrorist activities, et cetera, et cetera, or violates human rights. Now, it’s important to tell users that this content is manipulated. And our advice, our approach is that Meta should then label that content as significantly altered. This is being transparent with users, with us, and useful without having to remove content. And Meta, indeed, started labeling all AI content that they can detect using tools, like Mr. Alwagait pointed out, using tools to show users understand that this video of that president is actually manipulated, or that video of that candidate in a campaign or elections is manipulated. AI is not the challenge. AI exacerbates, speeds up, accelerates, but it’s not the challenge. States, corporations, and humans like us are the ones who sometimes abuse the system, using AI or using other tools. And our strategies should be focused on fighting, not on fighting these tools, but on actually using them, again, as Mr. Alwagait said, to expose, and sometimes even label, or remove this harmful content.

Barbara Carfagna: Thank you very much. So I ask, we had just less than nine minutes. I ask each of you a quick remark, a final message to leave to our public.

Esam Alwagait: Sure. So misinformation is very dangerous. In cases like COVID-19, it costs lives of people. We need to fight it. We need to have this collaboration between the government, academia, the tech companies, the international organizations, to come up with proper regulations to combat misinformation. And I’d like to reiterate our commitment here in Saudi Arabia to work locally and globally to reach to such regulations. Thank you.

Barbara Carfagna: Thank you.

Deemah Al-Yahya: I just wanted as well to build on Her Excellency Natalia’s comment on the differences and how can cooperation help. Before this session, because of the power of platforms like IGF and with the support of Saudi Arabia hosting IGF this year, we conducted a roundtable where we had our member states and also states that were not members to come together. And what we found is that the challenge is similar. The challenges are the same, but the way how to tackle the challenge is different. And by just one seating together, all shared best practices together, which reduced time to expedite solving the problem. And as consensus of all our members mandated by our chair, the Minister of Kuwait, we are going to have another meeting as well, the same to invite private sector and social media platforms to be part of that discussion to create, as His Excellency mentioned, the right regulations and standards that within consensus all member states can adopt and therefore respected by the social media platforms. My message is, let’s continue cooperating and we have to act now, but in a way where we put hands in hands rather than working independently and in silos. Thank you.

Barbara Carfagna: Thank you.

Mohammed Ali Al-Qaed: I just wanted to highlight that, you know, not everything is negative with the technologies and what’s going on. The technologies allowed, you know, the globe to come closer and, you know, having a similar information at the right time. So, you know, having a common ground between each everybody. But usually, you know, the governments and the society reacts to the. misinformation only the those that are you know spread most or having a higher impact the problem that the misinformation which goes into smaller groups that doesn’t spread so much in smaller societies or smaller groups that nobody is you know taking care of where it could build to a deeper beliefs on those people and making it much difficult and maybe in the future causing a bigger problems I think that we have to we have to address the other thing that you know countries alone or smaller countries they have a less influence on companies tech companies so this is why I think regionally we have to work together to put the regulations and the mechanisms to combat the misinformation thank you.

Natalia Gherman: I would like to reiterate that the threat posed by misinformation but also by terrorist and violent extremist narratives is rapidly evolving so should the response by the states and all different stakeholders and the states of course have to be technologically agile to understand the nature of the threat and to counter of that but this approach should involve all of the society it has to be a government civil society non-governmental partners academia research and the private sector only in this case we will be success and I also want to draw our attention to sometimes unintended consequences of the effort to counter both terrorist narratives and misinformation when it comes to human rights, freedom of expression, freedom of opinion, also journalism and privacy. And the human rights cannot be compromised. Solutions for the spread of misinformation, illicit content online must be grounded in a share commitment to human rights principles. Thank you.

Barbara Carfagna: Thank you.

Pearse O’Donohue: Thank you. Well, if I may be so bold as to talk in terms of principles, which we have heard here today on the panel. And the first is the protection of the individual, which we must strive to achieve. But the second is the preservation of freedom of speech. And there are times when those two first principles can be perceived to be in conflict. But it’s particularly in the mechanism or the weight of the procedures that we put in place to protect the individual, which can, if misused, actually hinder and block freedom of speech. And blocking freedom of speech, freedom of expression, is itself harmful to the individual as it is harmful to society. So that’s why we have to get it right. So the issue of accountability, a principle, the principle of transparency are critical to achieving the right balance in tackling misinformation. I do agree that not all misinformation can be classified as bad, and that we therefore need a gradual response. And of course, we preserve our most direct and intrusive measures for those content, which is clearly supporting terrorist, criminal, or other dangerous philosophies or content. With that in mind, cooperation is therefore the way of doing things. I do agree that individual countries cannot achieve the same as regions can. And that is one of the reasons why the European Union has acted. And we are very keen to discuss and share in the recognition of diversity with other regions who may seek to achieve the same objectives. And that is bringing me to my last principle, which is that it’s not just freedom of expression. It is the open internet, which is available to all, which is of so great importance to economies and societies throughout the world, which we are here to seek to preserve and develop. Thank you.

Barbara Carfagna: Thank you.

Khaled Mansour: Thank you very much, Barbara. I think we spoke a lot about misinformation, how to define it, how to counter it, how to deal with it. Let me conclude by talking about good information because supporting good information, accurate media, credible exchange of information is paramount if we are to counter misinformation root causes. And this should be our major objectives as governments, as the tech industry, which is not represented on this panel, and as civil society and content moderators. Because we have to submit that there is a fine balance as Pierce just pointed out. There is a fine balance that we have to make between respecting and supporting freedom of expression and human rights and accurate information on one hand, and how to address harmful, and I underline harmful, imminently unlikely harmful misinformation the other hand. And in reaching a good, fine balance between these two overriding objectives lies the challenge that we all face, even if we have different roads to reaching our objective. Thank you.

Barbara Carfagna: So we had finished at 0, 0, 0, 0. So we are perfect speaker. I give my conclusion that is, as we know, we are facing a real revolution that is not industrial. It’s a human for the first time as humans, we are acting in the world together with artificial agents. The agents are organizing also our lives and they’re acting. with us. In these days, we are seeing for the first time how they act and organize seeing my generative AI can talk with the hair generative AI and they organize a meeting together for us. So this is a huge revolution that we can’t face with the tools we had before. That’s why we are building an ecosystem, a new ecosystem. And it is the governance that can lead an ecosystem, not the single vertical domains. That’s why I thank you once more Internet governance forum for this panel, and also for starting this event with this panel, because this is the most important topic probably we have to afford in building our next society. Thank you. Thank you.

Agreement Points

Social media platforms are major sources of misinformation

Esam Alwagait

Natalia Gherman

Mohammed Ali Al-Qaed

Social media platforms are the main source of misinformation spread

Unmoderated online spaces are major hubs for misinformation

Social media algorithms promote sensational content

Multiple speakers identified social media platforms as primary sources for the spread of misinformation, citing their wide reach, rapid dissemination capabilities, and algorithmic promotion of sensational content.

Multi-stakeholder collaboration is crucial in combating misinformation

Deemah Al-Yahya

Natalia Gherman

Pearse O’Donohue

Governments, tech companies, academia and civil society must collaborate

Global cooperation and frameworks are needed to address misinformation

Regulations should put onus on platforms to moderate content

Speakers emphasized the need for collaboration between various stakeholders, including governments, tech companies, academia, and civil society, to effectively address the complex issue of misinformation.

AI and technology can be used to combat misinformation

Esam Alwagait

Mohammed Ali Al-Qaed

AI and machine learning tools can detect manipulated content

Fact-checking and content verification tools exist but require user effort

Speakers discussed the potential of AI, machine learning, and other technological tools in detecting and combating misinformation, while acknowledging the current limitations and need for user engagement.

Similar Viewpoints

Both speakers emphasized the need to balance protecting users from harmful misinformation with preserving freedom of expression, suggesting that platforms should be responsible for content moderation within a regulatory framework.

Khaled Mansour

Pearse O’Donohue

Misinformation policies must balance protecting users and preserving free speech

Regulations should put onus on platforms to moderate content

Unexpected Consensus

Labeling content as an alternative to removal

Khaled Mansour

Mohammed Ali Al-Qaed

Labeling manipulated content can inform users without removing it

“Verify-by-design” tools could tag information at the source

Despite representing different sectors (civil society and government), both speakers proposed similar approaches to addressing misinformation through labeling or tagging content rather than outright removal, suggesting an unexpected alignment on preserving information flow while enhancing user awareness.

Overall Assessment

Summary

The speakers generally agreed on the significant role of social media in spreading misinformation, the need for multi-stakeholder collaboration, and the potential of technology in combating the issue. There was also a shared emphasis on balancing user protection with freedom of expression.

Consensus level

Moderate to high consensus was observed among the speakers on the main challenges and broad approaches to addressing misinformation. This level of agreement suggests a promising foundation for developing coordinated strategies to combat misinformation, though specific implementation details may require further discussion and negotiation among stakeholders.

Different Viewpoints

Approach to content removal

Khaled Mansour

Pearse O’Donohue

Not all misinformation is harmful and removal is not always the best approach

Regulations should put onus on platforms to moderate content

Mansour argues for a more nuanced approach to content moderation, suggesting that not all misinformation is harmful and removal isn’t always necessary. O’Donohue, on the other hand, advocates for placing the responsibility of content moderation on platforms, implying a more active approach to content removal.

Focus of misinformation strategies

Esam Alwagait

Khaled Mansour

AI and machine learning tools can detect manipulated content

Supporting accurate, credible information is key to countering misinformation

Alwagait emphasizes the use of technological solutions to detect misinformation, while Mansour argues for a focus on promoting accurate and credible information as a key strategy.

Unexpected Differences

Role of global cooperation

Natalia Gherman

Khaled Mansour

Global cooperation and frameworks are needed to address misinformation

Not all misinformation is harmful and removal is not always the best approach

While Gherman emphasizes the importance of global cooperation and frameworks to address misinformation, Mansour’s focus on nuanced approaches and preserving free speech suggests a potential tension between global standardization and localized, context-specific responses to misinformation. This difference is unexpected given the general consensus on the need for collaboration among the speakers.

Overall Assessment

summary

The main areas of disagreement revolve around the specific approaches to addressing misinformation, including content removal policies, the role of technology versus promoting accurate information, and the balance between global cooperation and localized responses.

difference_level

The level of disagreement among the speakers is moderate. While there is a general consensus on the importance of addressing misinformation and the need for multi-stakeholder cooperation, speakers differ on the specific strategies and priorities. These differences reflect the complexity of the issue and suggest that a one-size-fits-all approach to combating misinformation may be challenging to implement. The implications of these disagreements highlight the need for flexible, context-specific solutions that can balance various concerns such as free speech, technological innovation, and effective regulation.

Partial Agreements

All three speakers agree on the need for innovative approaches to address misinformation that don’t hinder innovation or free speech. However, they propose different methods: Alwagait suggests broad innovative regulations, Al-Qaed proposes ‘verify-by-design’ tools, and Mansour advocates for labeling content rather than removing it.

Esam Alwagait

Mohammed Ali Al-Qaed

Khaled Mansour

Innovative regulations are needed to combat misinformation while enabling innovation

“Verify-by-design” tools could tag information at the source

Labeling manipulated content can inform users without removing it

Similar Viewpoints

Both speakers emphasized the need to balance protecting users from harmful misinformation with preserving freedom of expression, suggesting that platforms should be responsible for content moderation within a regulatory framework.

Khaled Mansour

Pearse O’Donohue

Misinformation policies must balance protecting users and preserving free speech

Regulations should put onus on platforms to moderate content

Key Takeaways

Social media platforms are the primary source for spreading misinformation due to their wide reach and rapid dissemination capabilities

AI and machine learning technologies can be effective in detecting and combating misinformation, but also pose risks in generating more sophisticated fake content

A multi-stakeholder approach involving governments, tech companies, civil society and academia is needed to effectively address misinformation

Regulations and policies must balance protecting users from harmful misinformation while preserving freedom of speech and an open internet

Supporting access to accurate, credible information is crucial in countering misinformation

Resolutions and Action Items

Develop innovative regulations that combat misinformation while enabling innovation

Create public-private partnerships and international cooperation frameworks to address misinformation globally

Implement AI-driven fact-checking and content verification tools on social media platforms

Establish ‘verify-by-design’ mechanisms to tag information at the source

Organize more focused global and regional events to develop unified strategies against misinformation

Unresolved Issues

How to effectively regulate smaller, unmoderated online spaces that serve as hubs for misinformation

Addressing misinformation in encrypted messaging apps and private groups

Developing a standardized approach to defining and classifying harmful vs. non-harmful misinformation

Balancing regional/cultural differences in misinformation policies while maintaining a global approach

Mitigating unintended consequences of misinformation countermeasures on human rights and privacy

Suggested Compromises

Labeling manipulated or AI-generated content rather than removing it entirely to balance free speech concerns

Implementing graduated responses to misinformation based on likelihood and imminence of harm

Focusing on behavior and spread patterns of messages rather than just content to identify misinformation

Combining technological solutions with media literacy and critical thinking education initiatives

Misinformation kills. By spreading misinformation in conflict times from Myanmar to Sudan to Syria, this can be murderous.

speaker

Khaled Mansour

reason

This comment starkly highlights the real-world consequences of misinformation beyond just online discourse, emphasizing its potential for violence and harm.

impact

It shifted the conversation to focus more on the serious real-world impacts of misinformation, rather than just discussing it as an abstract online phenomenon.

We have seen an explosion in the number of gaming and social media platforms, messaging systems, and online spaces. So in terms of malicious content online, we in the United Nations highlight that unmoderated spaces are major hubs for misinformation and terrorist content.

speaker

Natalia Gherman

reason

This comment broadens the scope of the discussion to include newer, less regulated online spaces as sources of misinformation.

impact

It prompted further discussion on the challenges of regulating diverse online platforms and the need for comprehensive approaches to combat misinformation across various digital spaces.

If a government or a regulatory authority decides to step in and decide on what is misinformation and what is not, well then who moderates the regulator? And that becomes a permanent issue.

speaker

Pearse O’Donohue

reason

This comment raises a crucial point about the challenges of regulating misinformation without infringing on free speech or creating new problems of authority and censorship.

impact

It led to a more nuanced discussion about the balance between regulation and freedom of expression, and the need for transparent, accountable processes in combating misinformation.

To combat misinformation, you have the tools detected, but you need to have the regulations that enforces these tools.

speaker

Esam Alwagait

reason

This comment succinctly captures the dual nature of the challenge – technological solutions and regulatory frameworks – needed to address misinformation effectively.

impact

It helped bridge the discussion between technological solutions and policy approaches, encouraging a more holistic view of combating misinformation.

Not all misinformation can be classified as bad, and that we therefore need a gradual response. And of course, we preserve our most direct and intrusive measures for those content, which is clearly supporting terrorist, criminal, or other dangerous philosophies or content.

speaker

Pearse O’Donohue

reason

This comment introduces important nuance into the discussion, acknowledging that not all misinformation is equally harmful and suggesting a proportional response.

impact

It encouraged a more refined approach to addressing misinformation, moving away from blanket solutions and towards more targeted, context-specific strategies.

Overall Assessment

These key comments shaped the discussion by broadening its scope from a narrow focus on technological solutions to a more comprehensive examination of the misinformation challenge. They highlighted the real-world impacts of misinformation, the complexities of regulating diverse online spaces, the tension between regulation and free speech, and the need for nuanced, proportional responses. This led to a richer, more multifaceted conversation that acknowledged the interplay between technology, policy, and societal impacts in addressing misinformation.

How can we develop innovative regulations that combat misinformation without hindering innovation?

speaker

Esam Alwagait

explanation

Finding this balance is crucial for effectively addressing misinformation while still allowing for technological progress

How can we implement ‘verify-by-design’ tools that tag information without restricting its dissemination?

speaker

Mohammed Ali Al-Qaed

explanation

This approach could help users identify potential misinformation without resorting to censorship

How can we develop cross-platform reporting mechanisms for misinformation?

speaker

Natalia Gherman

explanation

This could improve coordination and effectiveness in addressing misinformation across different online platforms

How can we better support and promote accurate, credible information sources?

speaker

Khaled Mansour

explanation

Focusing on promoting good information could be an effective strategy to counter misinformation at its root

How can we ensure that efforts to combat misinformation do not inadvertently compromise human rights, freedom of expression, and privacy?

speaker

Natalia Gherman

explanation

Balancing security measures with fundamental rights is crucial in developing effective and ethical approaches to misinformation

How can regional cooperation be leveraged to influence tech companies in addressing misinformation?

speaker

Mohammed Ali Al-Qaed

explanation

Smaller countries may have limited influence individually, but regional cooperation could provide more leverage in negotiations with tech giants

How can we develop public-private partnerships to address the exploitation of information communication technologies?

speaker

Natalia Gherman

explanation

Collaboration between governments and private sector could lead to more comprehensive and effective solutions

How can we improve digital and media literacy campaigns to counter myths and disinformation?

speaker

Natalia Gherman

explanation

Enhancing public awareness and critical thinking skills could help build societal resilience against misinformation

How can we develop guidelines for strategic communications and counter-messaging algorithms?

speaker

Natalia Gherman

explanation

These tools could help in proactively addressing misinformation at scale

How can we better understand and address misinformation in smaller, less visible groups where it may be building deeper beliefs?

speaker

Mohammed Ali Al-Qaed

explanation

Focusing only on widely spread misinformation may overlook potentially dangerous localized misinformation

Summary

This discussion focused on the concept of “leapfrogging” in technology and infrastructure development, particularly in relation to internet connectivity and energy access in developing regions. The panelists, including experts from various countries, explored how nations can skip intermediate stages of development to adopt more advanced technologies rapidly.

Key topics included the relationship between energy consumption and GDP, the importance of reliable electricity for internet access, and the potential for innovative solutions like portable Wi-Fi batteries and solar-powered micro data centers. The speakers emphasized the need for sovereignty in technological development, allowing countries to tailor solutions to their specific needs rather than relying solely on external models.

The discussion highlighted successful examples of leapfrogging, such as Saudi Arabia’s rapid development in the energy sector and Brazil’s creative approaches to expanding internet infrastructure. Panelists also addressed the challenges faced by many African nations in achieving consistent energy and internet access.

A significant portion of the conversation centered on the role of youth and women in driving technological advancement and economic growth in developing regions. The importance of digital literacy, education, and healthcare access through technology was stressed, with examples of how internet connectivity can empower marginalized communities.

The speakers advocated for a “Last Mile Coalition” within the UN Internet Governance Forum to focus on the specific needs of remote and underserved communities. They also discussed the potential for community networks and innovative distribution models to expand access more efficiently than traditional infrastructure approaches.

Overall, the discussion underscored the transformative potential of leapfrogging in bridging global digital divides and the need for collaborative, locally-tailored solutions to achieve meaningful connectivity worldwide.

Keypoints

Major discussion points:

– The concept of “leapfrogging” in technological and economic development, where developing regions skip stages to catch up or surpass more developed areas

– The critical importance of energy access and infrastructure as a foundation for internet connectivity and economic growth

– The role of public-private partnerships and foreign investment in enabling leapfrogging, with both positive and negative examples discussed

– The potential for innovative solutions like portable batteries and micro-grids to provide energy and connectivity to remote areas

– The importance of local ownership, sovereignty and culturally-appropriate solutions in leapfrogging efforts

The overall purpose of the discussion was to explore the challenges and opportunities around providing “last mile” internet and energy access to remote and underserved communities around the world. The speakers aimed to reframe the narrative around these efforts and highlight innovative approaches.

The tone of the discussion was largely optimistic and solution-oriented, with speakers sharing examples of successful leapfrogging initiatives. There was also a critical edge at times when discussing failed approaches or exploitation of developing regions. The tone became more collaborative towards the end as participants shared ideas and made connections.

Speakers

– Jarrell James: Moderator, from East Africa, works on last mile internet access

– Okiki Famutimi: Co-founder of Parabl, from Nigeria, works on internet and energy access

– Conor Colwell: Founder of LiquidStar, works on waypoints and off-grid energy solutions

– Duaa Balawi: Head of Saudi Y20 Youth delegation, from Saudi Arabia

– Raashi Saxena: Works at Parabl, background in telecommunications engineering and internet governance

– Purnima Tiwari: Steering committee member of the Dynamic Coalition on Internet Rights and Principles

Additional speakers:

– Ahmad: Works in the energy sector in Saudi Arabia

– Alex Mora: Network engineer from Brazil, works on research and education networks

– Fouad Rwabuhungu: From Tanzania, works on rural electrification projects

Revised Summary of Discussion on Leapfrogging in Technology and Infrastructure Development

Introduction

This discussion focused on the concept of “leapfrogging” in technology and infrastructure development, particularly in relation to internet connectivity and energy access in developing regions. The panel, comprised of experts from various countries, explored how nations can skip intermediate stages of development to rapidly adopt more advanced technologies.

Leapfrogging and Last Mile Internet

Okiki Famutimi introduced the concept of leapfrogging, explaining it as the process by which countries skip stages of economic development. He provided an example contrasting the gradual progression of telecommunications in the United States with the experience in countries like Nigeria, where widespread mobile phone adoption occurred without the intermediate stage of landline infrastructure.

Duaa Balawi offered another example from Saudi Arabia, describing how the country transitioned from a nomadic culture to industrialization through oil development, challenging traditional assumptions about the pace of economic development.

The discussion then shifted to the Last Mile Internet presentation, focusing on innovative solutions to provide connectivity in remote and underserved areas.

Waypoints Project

Conor Colwell introduced the Waypoints project, which aims to deploy solar-powered micro data centers providing electricity, water, and internet access. Key features of Waypoints include:

1. AI-driven electricity distribution across multiple revenue-generating services

2. Integrated water purification systems

3. High-speed internet connectivity

4. Plans to deploy 100,000 Waypoints globally, potentially impacting about 100 million people

Parabl Project

Jarrell James presented the Parable project, which involves portable Wi-Fi capable batteries serving as gateway access points. This solution provides both energy and connectivity in areas lacking traditional infrastructure, aligning with the leapfrogging concept by bypassing the need for extensive fixed infrastructure.

Energy Access and Economic Development

Jarrell James highlighted the direct correlation between per capita electricity generation and GDP, emphasizing the fundamental role of energy in driving economic growth. He presented data showing that countries with higher energy consumption tend to have higher GDP per capita, underscoring the importance of reliable electricity for economic development.

An audience member pointed out that nearly half the planet lacks reliable access to energy, significantly impacting economic development prospects in many regions.

Internet Shutdowns and Economic Impact

Okiki discussed the challenges posed by internet shutdowns, highlighting their significant economic impact. He emphasized the need for stable and reliable internet access to support economic growth and development.

Community Networks and Caching Solutions

The discussion explored community networks as a means to optimize limited bandwidth for multiple users, potentially increasing the efficiency and reach of existing connectivity resources. Keeks and Conor discussed the potential of caching educational content locally to reduce data costs for upskilling, demonstrating how innovative approaches can address both connectivity and educational challenges.

Y20 Policy Recommendations

Duaa Balawi presented policy recommendations from the Y20 summit, including:

1. Government subsidies for devices like smartphones and laptops for students, particularly in light of the COVID-19 pandemic’s impact on education

2. Improving telehealth access, especially for women in rural communities

3. Enhancing digital literacy programs to empower marginalized groups

Impact on Women and Marginalized Groups

Raashi Saxena highlighted the challenges faced by women in accessing the internet, noting that they often have limited access to household internet connections. She provided an example of digital literacy programs helping women in rural India use the internet.

Duaa Balawi expanded on this theme, explaining how internet access enables women’s economic participation and access to healthcare information. Jarrell James shared an example of Ethiopia’s women’s health movement leveraging mobile technology to improve maternal health outcomes.

Infrastructure Integration and Partnerships

Alex Mora shared Brazil’s approach of pairing power lines with fiber optic cables, enabling efficient infrastructure development by leveraging existing networks to expand internet access. He also discussed the Brazilian Research and Education Network and recommended attaching connectivity projects to educational institutions at all levels.

The creation of partnerships between research networks and commercial providers was proposed as a means to accelerate connectivity initiatives.

Rural Electrification and Connectivity

Fouad Rwabuhungu shared experiences from Tanzania, where rural electrification paired with 4G deployment is connecting villages, illustrating a holistic approach to infrastructure development.

Conclusion and Future Directions

The discussion concluded with several key takeaways and proposals for future action:

1. A suggestion to create a Last Mile Coalition within the UN Internet Governance Forum to focus on the specific needs of remote and underserved communities

2. The importance of integrating energy access, internet connectivity, and education initiatives for comprehensive development

3. The need for innovative, locally-tailored solutions to achieve meaningful connectivity worldwide

The conversation highlighted the transformative potential of leapfrogging in bridging global digital divides and the importance of collaborative approaches to sustainable technological development.

Jarrell James: I am here. Can you hear me? Anybody named Rashi up there? A Rashi Saxena? Okay. And then a Connor Colwell. They should both have speaker rights. Okay. Hi, can you hear me? Thank you. Okay, Rashi is live. Okay, seems like we are good to go. I’m gonna get situated here. Let’s see if… I can hear myself. Is your radio turned to three? Can everybody hear me? Everybody else can hear me? Okay. Yo, yo, yo, yo. I said a hip hop, a hippie, a hippie to the hip hop. No? There’s too many things dangling from me right now. Absolutely not. My tism is triggered. All right. I’d love to be able to see Rashi and Connor’s face if possible. Rashi, Connor. Nice. Rashi, I think you’re gonna want to turn your volume up more if possible because we cannot hear you. We could barely hear you. Okay. While we wait for our two collaborators online, Rashi Saxena, very big avid personality in the IGF space and the UN space as well. She unfortunately got… Dengue fever, and so was unable to fly from Bangalore. And so we’re going to work with her online. And then we have Connor Caldwell, old friend of ours, but also a deep researcher, collaborator on edge communities, edge grids, and all sorts of crazy things we’re going to get into. So I don’t want to give it all away now. This is our presentation, Last Mile. I need to be able to see a little bit, if that’s all right. Last Mile Internet, the paths for remote communities, almost at edge communities. This is something that’s very important to us. This is something that comes to us from our backgrounds. I come from East Africa, originally. I come from a region that has been shut down from the internet many times due to either natural disasters or extenuating circumstances. I think our longest shutdown was about two years. And my friend here, Okiki, I’ll let him introduce himself.

OKIKI: Testing. Hey, everyone. My name is Okiki. I also go by Keeks. I’ve been working with Jharrel on this project for a little over a year, I’d say. And my connection to this is that I’m from a country in West Africa, Nigeria, that has, despite the fact that it’s one of the larger oil-producing countries, the grid in major cities goes down several times a year to the point where it’s seen as trivial. So yeah, that’s my personal connection. And I really want to basically work on that connection and the relationship between internet and energy access.

Jarrell James: Joined to the left here is Dua, the head of the Saudi Y20 Youth. Did I say that all correct?

DUA: Yes, sir.

Jarrell James: Yes. Dua, I believe you’re Saudi-born, Saudi-raised, and- And you come to the IGF focused on the projected futures that can be made from the youth community here in Saudi Arabia and seeing where your guys’ technological development leads you, correct?

DUA: Yeah, absolutely. And I think just a little bit about me, I’m actually from a very small village here in the kingdom. Although I didn’t really spend much time there, I was born and raised here in Riyadh. However, it was always very prevalent to me that my family back in that village struggled with connectivity and access to internet. Despite the fact that we have one of the fastest 5G networks in the world and the largest accessibility to the internet, there are still some rural areas that unfortunately have not had the access. Hence why I advocated for digital inclusivity and accessibility at the Y20 as the head of the Saudi Arabian delegation. And I think at the Y20, there were a lot of topics that we were discussing and a lot of policies that we wanted to bring to the table. And of course, in a forum as big as the Y20 that harbors 20 G20 countries, as well as nine visiting countries, it was this year in Brazil, there was a lot of things that we couldn’t necessarily reach a common ground on. But the one thing that all of us seem to agree on quite passionately is the imperative that everybody needs to have digital access, especially when it comes to its link to education, to the ability to connect with the rest of the world, to allow people to bridge that divide between marginalized communities and urban nations in that regard. So I’m here to speak a little bit about that and maybe highlight some of the policies that we wanted to advocate for as part of the Y20 group.

Jarrell James: Let’s get into all of that, honestly. I know these headphones are kind of difficult to operate. These are the other two folks that will be joining us. Connor Caldwell, who I mentioned earlier, is the founder of a group called liquidstar.io. You’ll learn about them in a moment. Rashi Saxena, I also mentioned earlier. I don’t know if Rashi is live now, but maybe she wants to introduce herself, and maybe Connor can introduce themselves. Go ahead, Rashi or Connor, if you can. You’ll come through on everybody’s headphones. It’s a very interesting experience here. Rashi, are you available? You are muted, if you are available. Yeah. Sir, can we unmute Rashi and Connor? Make co-host. Hold on. We’re giving you guys some access here. And then, Connor, call well, please, as well. Up top. Right there. Hey. There’s Rashi, smiling face. What’s up? Hi. How are you? Hi, everyone. I hope everyone’s well. Thank you so much for joining in. I think you’re going to want to talk a little bit louder, if that’s okay?

Raashi Saxena: Can you hear me?

Jarrell James: Yeah.

Raashi Saxena: Okay. I’m going to try to be as loud as possible. I hope everyone’s doing well. Yeah, I’m a bit disappointed for not being there in person.

Jarrell James: Rashi, you might want to try different headphones or something. We’re hearing your tones. We’re not hearing your content.

Raashi Saxena: Can you hear me now?

Jarrell James: A little bit better, everybody? We’re getting mixed reviews. Try and yell. Just yell.

Raashi Saxena: Okay. I’m going to try to be louder. Can you hear me now? Yes. Okay, fabulous. Hi, everybody. My name is Rashi. I work with Jarell and Keats at Parabell. I have a background in technology. I’m a telecommunication engineer, and I’ve been working on doing a lot of research on digital governance, internet governance issues since 2018. I made my debut at the IGF in 2018 in Paris, working on internet shutdowns and policy, and I’m also a steering committee member at the IFC. And yeah, I’m excited to be here.

Jarrell James: Rashi, I’m going to go ahead and summarize what you just said. If you wouldn’t mind, could you go into your settings on Zoom for me and check that your input level is turned all the way up? Rashi was saying that she is an avid member of the IGF community. She has worked on all sorts of commissions and policy initiatives by a number of different city-states, a number of different nation-states, and has worked extensively with the Bangalore community around technological innovation and really fostering general, I would say, camaraderie around future endeavors and big thinking. She’s being very modest, but Rashi is also named one of the, I believe, six women to watch by the, correct me if I’m wrong, World Bank, if it’s World Bank or the IMF, one of the two, the guys with the money. And then we have Connor Caldwell up here, who I believe is also capable of unmuting himself. Connor, are you there?

Conor Colwell: Hey, yeah, I’m here. Can you hear me all right?

Jarrell James: No, I think that there’s something about our remote participants that is not coming through at the appropriate volume level. While we have them figure that out, and hopefully we will get that figured out shortly here, let me just do kind of an overview of you as well, Connor, and then when you have your first question, feel free to jump back into it, okay? Okay, sounds good. He came through a little bit louder there, didn’t he? All right, we’ll do a test in a second, but Connor is an avid builder, just a guy who likes to get his hands dirty. couple years in Indonesia and in Djibouti and Jamaica, building out various steps in what’s known as their like waypoints pilots. And these pilots are designed to bring, basically be able to drop a mobile agile grid into any region or in the world, whether that be in a very remote desert or a very high elevation somewhere. I’m going to go on to the next thing. Connor, I hope I did you justice on that. Yeah, thanks. Okay, we heard you. We heard you pretty decently there. Okay. I’m wondering if you can hear me decently as well. Yeah, I think we’re hearing you a little bit better. Everybody? Anyone? Okay. If anyone, if you guys could shut that door back there, that would actually be really helpful, I think, for everybody. All right, let’s assume that I did that correct. Okay, let’s go and we’re gonna just start this off with a little fun exercise. If it’s alright, I’m gonna stand up because I find sitting down and turning around to be difficult. We’re gonna start us off with a little exercise. If you could minimize that chat side, that’d be awesome. So what is the last mile? It’s really hard to like just put ourselves in that experience, you know, especially if we come from regions that are not considered the last mile or a region inside of our own country that’s not considered the last mile. So let’s do an example. You are, what would you do if you ordered an Uber to Disneyland and it dropped you off 10 miles away? Imagine you’re trying to get from your home to Disneyland with your family, LA, Los Angeles, Disneyland, the real one, period. It’s not the end of the world if you don’t make it, but you know, your little community will have a pretty drastic mental health change if you don’t make it at Disneyland. So what do you do if you order an Uber Disneyland and it drops you off 10 miles away? I just can be a little bit of participation if you want, like just throw something out there. I’m sure someone’s gonna be like try and get another Uber, try and get a train, trying a number of different ways to just get a different utility. to get you where you need to go. So interestingly enough like there is a lot of parallels between that and what it means to be in the last mile. You know everybody else on the planet is really hyper connected. You know everybody else is getting mass amounts of money using the internet. You know all these different realities are happening and opportunities are happening for other people and so you’re now sit with a position of like how do I get me and my community to that next five like the last five miles. It’s made it all the way here where you can see the promised land in the court in the distance. How do we get there? And so if you look at the various oh my goodness is it difficult. Hey can you go back? Oh never mind. Can you go back to the beginning? Okay okay so we go to the UN. This controller doesn’t work too well everybody. If you go to the UN you’re gonna hear things like the sustainable development goals for Internet. Everyone has meaningful connectivity by 2030. Meaningful connectivity is defined over there by you know a very long paragraph. It’s not really well talked about the definitions of meaningful connectivity. Who currently has it? It’s mostly the global north. If we look at what their definitions of meaningful connectivity are the framework focuses on four pillars. 4G like speed, smartphone ownership, daily use, unlimited access right? This is a very classic very casual existence for many communities in the global north if not almost all of them. Dependencies, energy infrastructure, regulators, motivated partners. It’s amazing how important that one is and expensive equipment period. So when we look at the development goals of everyone having meaningful connectivity by 2030 we kind of have to acknowledge that everyone has to have these these dependencies taken care of. And so can every region around the world have all of those dependencies taken care of? Not necessarily. and not by their own standards oftentimes. So that’s what we’re going to start getting into is actually what do these dependencies look like for the last mile and what are new solutions and new developments that are being made by us and by others. Let me see, I have other notes here. Rashi, would you like to speak at all in this because I know that you are involved in the UN quite a bit and if you guys, if you, Rashi or Connor, if you guys have anything to say feel free to jump in. I’m just looking at my notes here. Okay, so this next like, this next bit will be a bit of a reprogramming and with like any reprogrammings there might be a lot of questions that come up and I encourage you honestly just to get up at the moment and just ask them or submit them in writing and hand it to my boy Keeks here. I don’t, whatever you need to do. He’s taking avid notes. So let’s go to the next. Ah, here we go. So yeah, it’s the next one. So these are oftentimes connectivity challenges. Deep dive is centralized grids are often brittle. Energy infrastructure is easily destroyed in many parts of the world through natural disasters or whatever extenuating circumstances there may be. Most major utilities are often nationalized but work is outsourced to the private sector. Sponsor nations are for expensive grid infrastructure are limited and often aren’t designed with input from average people. So you have large-scale solutions that affect many, many people’s lives but had very little input from many people’s lives. I’m seeing some head nodding there. I feel like you understand. Or no nationalization, the whole grid starts off at the mercy of outside corporations and lackluster capitalism and I say lackluster capitalism because I enjoy making up terms but there’s not a lot of incentive to create shared goals with the users that these networks are affecting. And so when you have that, you oftentimes don’t have sovereignty and a lot of these regions around in the world that we talk about are looking for sovereignty over their own connection, sovereignty over their own future projections that the GSMA or someone else might be putting out, right? So limited resources for sovereign ownership of major utilities, no ability for utility companies or solutions to be developed or owned by those who rely on them, oftentimes. And ownership of utilities ensures standards. But if there was ownership of those utilities by these local sovereign populations, standards would be improving because they’re shared goals. They’re shared outcomes. And much like the Uber driver, if this thing goes forward, we will see that there needs to be, yeah. So there needs to be physical conditions that allow people to foster for shared outcomes. So if you go to the Uber driver example, that particular Uber driver that you were trying to use to get to Disneyland, he said, I don’t have the same shared outcome as you. In fact, I’m going to drop you off here five miles away. I’m tired. It looks like there’s a lot of traffic. My wife wants me home. The dishes aren’t done. I need to go. And so he drops you off because even though he was there to do a job, he doesn’t have the same shared outcome as you. If you were driving that car and driving your family to Disneyland, you would all have the same shared outcome. And you would get there together. So let’s see. Back one. Nice. Recognizing these deeper challenges is why we coming together, Connor, Rashi, myself, Dua, and others, are really starting to push for this idea of a last mile coalition within the IGF and people that focus as a strategic collective on the reality that is seen and experienced by billions of people around the world and start to actually address these bottlenecks that we see happening. And when you see the bottlenecks that are happening, clearly because of infrastructure, lacking infrastructure, and lacking partners, countries, lacking investments, and honestly, lacking technical expertise and to create the sovereignty for themselves. So, oh my god. So go backwards. Leapfrogging. Do you guys know what it means? Does anyone want to give an example or give some kind of, just somebody summarize what you think leapfrogging is. I’m gonna bring this to you. It’s to to make a leap. Hand to the man behind you. Well, I believe leapfrogging would be to take a step forward and jumping above some of the obstacles that you may find. So you’re jumping above whatever difficulties you’re having. Yes, that is a good overview. Just kind of generality. I think it’d be awesome to hear Rashi or Connor. Do you guys have any thoughts on what leapfrogging is?

Raashi Saxena: Can you hear me?

Jarrell James: Yes, just yell a bit.

Raashi Saxena: I mean, I actually kind of agree with what Purnima mentioned on the chat and I know we have nine participants also in the chat so feel free to also give your suggestions. We do. I’m monitoring it. I would say leapfrogging would be places that have historically been under connected and underserved by by traditional telecom operators and in our case also energy operators. And they don’t necessarily have to be in regions that are impoverished. They could also be in first world countries but just not well connected or and also a lot of that the usual private stakeholders might also not be incentivized because of the limited population or, you know, challenges with terrain, things like that. That’s a long-winded answer.

Jarrell James: I think that’s a great answer. And Purnima, I really appreciate your involvement. I did not see that you had answered that question so adequately.

PURNIMA: I’m here as a steering committee member of the Dynamic Coalition on Internet Rights and Principles.

Jarrell James: Oh, nice. Thank you so much for joining. Glad to have you. I think we have a quick video that helps us tell you what we think leapfrogging is, and hopefully this doesn’t blow out your ears, to be honest. I’m going to walk out of the way. So, Keeks, I mean, you’re from Nigeria. What do you consider leapfrogging to be? How would you define what it means for a region to leapfrog? And what does that actually look like in practice compared to the West? Great question. Leapfrogging, as I understand it, basically what happens when a country skips stages of economic development. When you think about how in the U.S. you had telegrams and telephones and cell phones, you kind of see that as like steps, right? But in countries like Nigeria, for example, you didn’t really have widespread landlines and telephone lines before everyone in the country had a cell phone. So I look at that as leapfrogging, right? You skip steps. But I’m preaching to the choir. JJ, you already know all this. What are you thinking in terms of like how to quantify that? What are some hard numbers for leapfrogging? I don’t know. for me the base factors of a society or people that defines leapfrogging is as simple as kilowatts per hour per person megabits per second per person in relation to GDP per capita and like the greater consumption that you have as an individual and that energy supply meaning that you have access to more internet connectivity on a regular basis and that internet connectivity is all faster more megabits per second the reality is you’re going to be the larger shares of your country’s GDP that’s just how the metrics go and if you look at any developed nation they simply have the highest kilowatt per hour per person to GDP per capita that’s what it means to really be a developed nation when they talk about developing that’s what they’re talking about developing that’s it that’s leapfrogging and it’s an emergent property displayed by china india and others and fucking thailand and this emergent property is taking things the west may have introduced or the west may have nationalized and resold them but saying actually that’s not really going to work for us here’s what we need we’re going to take these parts from you we’re going to do this ourselves see you in 50 years and this is like an endeavor made by many many global south countries that we call leapfrog regions and this endeavor is made earnestly most of the time and originally earnestly but also it’s pretty easy to fucking stop man it’s pretty easy to stop with foreign direct investment uh natural disasters if you do that you just you’ve removed those people from what it means to be a modern society modern societies develop and they thrive and flourish upon the most efficient consumption of energy across the board for the most people and how that energy affects just the general GDP and economic growth of a region year over year you take out the energy grid you take out that cool that’s my boy um so let’s just take a pause here now that like what we’re framing and what we kind of are acknowledging is that there’s plenty of examples of leapfrogging. We’ve seen whole countries like Singapore and others just like dig down deep and completely restructure their entire society around advancement and focusing everybody’s attention on advancement. Now I would actually like to ask the audience and also our own panelists and Dua and Keeks, examples that you’ve seen in your own countries, I don’t know where everyone’s from, but are there any examples you’ve seen in your country of leapfrogging? Like have you seen whole sectors almost change overnight due to maybe greater energy access? Maybe somebody built a hydroelectric dam that suddenly provided a ton of kilowatts to a much thousands or millions of more people? So I mean I would love to just give a little bit of a moment because this is a long workshop, we have to do a little bit of participation. I know you’re Italian? No, where were you from? Huh? Brazil? Please let us know. Do you have any? I met him in the Italian Airport, that’s why I thought he was Italian by the way. We met days ago, I heard him talking about lower radio modules to his friend and I was like what do you know about lower radio modules? Let’s talk. So I’m glad to see that he showed up for the workshop, this is huge. This is how friendships start. I’m gonna bring you the microphone, I would love to hear because I know examples of how Brazil leapfrogged in certain ways, or is leapfrogging. I’d love to hear if you have any examples of your own. No? You don’t know? Can I ask you a question? What is the main transportation route tool in Brazil? Huh? Roads that are used, that have what on them? The large-scale vehicles that are called buses? The main tool of transportation in Brazil is a bus and it’s what moves like the majority of the population from place to place, which also makes your transportation quite slow. The interesting about Brazil is that originally it was an entirely, there was a huge a huge plan focused from a sovereign national level on doing a train system. And there was outside influence that had certain lobbies around developing cars, petrol, those types of things that pushed for the Brazilian population to make buses and roads and cars their main forms of transportation. So in the concept of transportation actually, Brazil almost leapfrogged and then decided to take it a little easy. Can I ask where’s everybody from? If everyone’s from Saudi Arabia, that would be very surprising. I’m gonna start pointing at people. Where are you from? Brazil. Brazil as well, yes, I’m loving this. Oh man, we got lots of Brazilians in here. Do any of you guys have any examples of Brazil leapfrogging?

AUDIENCE: No, I’m just thinking about, but I can’t remember a case.

Jarrell James: Give me some minutes, then I will think more. Okay.

AUDIENCE: I’d like to call on my colleague Ahmad right there on the back, if we can just hand over the mic to him. So my colleague Ahmad works in the energy sector and I believe he could probably speak on some leapfrogging that has been done here in the kingdom specifically in the energy sector and the new renewables.

Jarrell James: So yeah, thank you very much. Just to get a context for the question, so leapfrogging in terms of sustainable energy and development in the transport sector specifically or are we talking in general?

AUDIENCE: In general.

Jarrell James: Yeah, so in terms of energy, we’re looking for alternative energy sources and how we can really translate electricity, which can be abundant in Saudi in terms of solar and wind. Can that be translated into long-term storage? Short-term storage in terms of batteries is something that’s already growing, but the medium and long-term storage in terms of chemicals, storage to chemicals, I think that’s something we’re really seeing developments in there, how you take ammonia, for example, as an energy carrier and transport it internationally. There’s been issues with ammonia utilization. How can you turn it back and crack it into hydrogen, which is what you want to get from it? You get some difficulties with the efficiency, but then how can you use ammonia itself as a fuel? And so there has been a lot of development and leapfrogging in that sense. E-fuels, sustainable fuels, aviation fuels, there’s been a lot of work on developing these fuels that can be used within the existing infrastructure and that can really support the transition. I think that’s one of some of the major efforts that we see happening in Saudi. Shut that door, please.

AHMAD: So that was very, very helpful. Perspective that I had not heard at all do what do you want to speak to that at all or I mean? I have many questions and things to talk about with that But it seems like you definitely knew where we you wanted to go with this

AUDIENCE: I Personally don’t necessarily have a specific take on the matter given that I’m not a subject matter expert by any way shape or form however, I do want to say that it has been one of at least in the past five years one of the most inspirational development stories for me personally to see the the strides that Saudi has made in the renewable energy sector in a very short amount of time and I I think that as Ahmed has mentioned, you know, our existing infrastructure could already be be leveraged, but there’s also you know a push for building new infrastructure for harboring international investments in order to not only develop energy here in the kingdom, but also provide access to neighboring countries through Expanding the national grid and selling electricity and helping, you know support developing nations in that transition as well

Jarrell James: That makes so many things go off in my mind. Let’s start from the first start just real quick I had no idea that you guys were pushing so much into like chemical battery storage and like trying to figure out Where because I mean there’s innovations to be made there like huge innovations to be made there What I’m hearing though is it sounds like Saudi Arabia is aware of we’re a major energy powerhouse now We’ve brought the standard of living up for our whole country like everyone’s doing well, right? We’re all loving it. But like I mentioned in the video, which I think you might buy here right after that It’s actually like for many places around the world that are leapfrogging and they are developing and they are creating these new grids for themselves it’s a matter of Keeping that momentum going and you don’t know how if you can’t keep the momentum going you have to basically accept that There’s a whole population percentage of your community that’s going back They’re going back to the way things were they’re going to lose access and I don’t know how many of you guys have children or have ever dealt with People who don’t like to lose access to things people who like don’t enjoy like once you once you see the promised land You’re not gonna be told to go sit in purgatory. That’s kind of essentially how it is, right? And so the point for a lot of these nation states that have sovereign control over their leapfrogging technologies, is to maintain the standard of living. And like I said earlier, when you have a shared goal, you make sure the whole family gets to Disneyland. Like you’re trying, and where you have outside corporate influence oftentimes is like, well, if we get 20% of everybody, if we had 20% of the population at Disneyland, 20% are going to have a great time, right? Like that’s all that matters. And that’s where you want to see sovereign developments and neighborhoods, essentially I say neighborhoods, nations that are neighbors being like, oh, look what Saudi is doing. Look what others are doing. We can actually work together and create a non-monopolistic approach to energy that is sustainable. So it sounds like what we’re saying here is, Saudi Arabia going towards solar is its plan for leapfrogging its own community, its own entire community, everything from the internet to cars, to basic household critical needs. Do the panelists have any thoughts on that or any questions for Ahmed, Connor or Rashi? I know Connor, you have, Connor has worked extensively with solar energy and has built all sorts of things. I could show you his credentials real quick. It might help everybody. See, we’re going to go all, we’re going to skip this part for a second. Don’t read it. Ah, there we go. Sir. Wow, this controller hates me, I’m going to be honest. Everybody stop looking at the head, the head, all right? Here we go. This should be it. Can you click play? Connor, I’m going to do a little overview right now. Feel free to talk afterwards. In 2018, we saw a problem. Nearly 1 billion people lack access to electricity, water and internet. Traditional mini grids. only address one of these needs, requiring expensive wires and serving only people nearby, limiting their potential payback, struggling to make money because they only sell electricity. So we got to work on prototyping a better solution. Waypoints. Waypoints are solar-powered micro data centers that reimagine mini-grids using AI to efficiently distribute electricity across multiple revenue-generating services. They don’t just provide electricity, they unlock its potential. Waypoints change sunlight directly to electricity, generating revenue from multiple sources, renting batteries, selling clean water via atmospheric water generation, providing internet access via Starlink, hosting AI training and computing services, storing data, and running cloud-like services. No electrons are wasted. So how do those local communities use waypoints? They use the electricity to power fans, to power lights, to power commerce, and to power the party. The waypoints also use that electricity to deliver more electricity up to 15 kilometers away from where they’re located with electric bikes, allowing for better price discovery and increasing the range of electricity access, enabling people to charge phones who might be far away. Globally, for the first time ever, individuals, companies, and local SMEs can access the waypoint’s micro data center hardware to run and fine-tune AI models. Okay, so I’m just going to pause us there. Maybe this is helpful to go back. Come on now. Conor, I’ll let you give some, I guess, color to that, but I think with regard to Achmed’s statement, I think that was a good time to show that there is obviously a ton to be done with solar, and when we talk about sovereignty earlier, and how does a community really leapfrog, they have sovereignty. sovereignty over their electric grid. They have sovereignty over their connectivity. They have sovereignty over the steps that make a proficient and efficient population inside of a nation-state. Then, like, these types of solutions, what we’re talking about here with the waypoints, is dropping this into a region and allowing those communities to run the waypoints. Going into, we’ve been going into universities, talking to people who are like PhD students in electrical engineering and telecoms, and it’s like, hey, you, would you like to man and operate this thing? We’ll do some training, and as we, as I know, Conor, I’ll let you speak for yourself, but there’s a lot to be said about connecting communities that are many kilometers away from each other through technology like this. Conor, do you want to jump in here and see if you can talk? Yeah, just talk a little bit louder.

Conor Colwell: Okay. Yeah. No, thank you. I mean, there’s definitely a lot to talk about regarding that. I mean, I think, suppose one interesting angle to follow up on the previous thing is, yeah, I mean, when I think of leapfrogging, the example that comes to mind immediately is, I suppose, like what China, how China just skipped the whole desktop computer and went straight to laptops, tablets, and mobile devices. So, I think that that from like a technological perspective, it’s pretty interesting. I mean, just to follow up with the comment on, I suppose, like Saudi skipping or skipping ahead to renewable energy, I think the point there, I suppose, I see a lot with leapfrogging is that it usually involves an entrenched incumbent technology or infrastructure layer that is, you know, probably was like best thing in the world when it got installed. But then, like since then, technology has moved forward and or the, you know, the existing incumbent was extremely expensive or like resource-intensive to put in place and so that’s what has prevented it from like entering a lot of different communities or ecosystems like globally or slowed it down but then when a new technology comes along it’s able to like skip a lot of that in part because the infrastructure from the incumbents isn’t already there which you know usually usually that there’s sort of I guess more pressure to slow down that change if the infrastructure is already there or it just requires a replacement of it but in certain areas where there is no infrastructure that that makes it like sort of a very good opportunity to put the latest technology in and skip ahead so yeah that’s that’s all very interesting yeah for a while

Jarrell James: I think you spoke a little bit about the no worries I think let’s pause there for a second I don’t want to give Dua and Keeks a chance to talk about their own regions and I want to give you guys also a chance can anybody tell me what the average megabits per second is at your house where you live like how fast is your internet I don’t know I want to say 130 anyone anyone topping 130 are we topping 130 fiber is pretty nice I mean if we take it back I’d be curious Brazil what is your what is your megabits per second average hundred you are you both live in cities correct yeah as well yeah okay do you guys know the megabits per second of your rural communities by chance average I do know them I do know it like two three yeah it’s about two to ten for some of the rural communities Saudi Arabia is making very large strides towards trying to connect those in more rural communities I think it’s ninety eight point six percent density on five megabits per megabits per second, trying to move it up to 10 megabits per second. In Brazil, the average megabits per second of the cities is quite high for about 40% of the people. And then when you get to below that, when you get to the other 60%, even in the cities, you are ranging between 5 to 20 megabits per second. And then in the outer areas, obviously the rural communities, actually it’s really, really cool. There’s a lot of people who have, there’s not a lot of people, there’s a lot of people who are really interested in that. The value proposition of a Starlink is making a lot of sense, but not in the way that many of us would think. And I’ll pause there because I’ll go into that in a second, about how we’re seeing cultural evolvement, cultural evolution around Starlinks and satellite internet. But I want to give you an opportunity. In Nigeria, what’s your guys’ average megabits per second? And what’s your average grid per person, kilowatts per person?

AUDIENCE: Oh, kilowatt hour per capita is, it’s definitely below a thousand. It’s strange because, right, it’s an oil producing country, but for some reason, the electricity is cheap because it’s just so unreliable that people are just using generators all over the place. In terms of megabits per second, I mean, I was there last year and I averaged maybe like five megabits per second on like a good day in a part of town that didn’t have a ton of people in it. But even there, people were walking around with multiple phones just because you could have service in your house and then you go to work and whoops, you got to pull out the second phone just because the cell phone provider that works for your house just does not have coverage 20 minutes away from where you work.

Jarrell James: Yeah. Any other countries that aren’t Brazil or Saudi Arabia or Lagos or Nigeria? Anyone? You’re Brazilian as well? I’m glad that all the Brazilians showed up. Nice. Feel free to join if one of you wants to join up here. You’re a cybersecurity expert. We can make something work. But I think when I think of megabits per second in rural communities, I’d be curious how many of you know what a community network is? Like the concept of a community network? You do? Nice. Do you want to define it, or do you want me to define it and just tell people that you said that? So my friend here is mentioning that a community network is oftentimes one, two, three, four gateways, which are the access points to the greater internet. And these gateways can be like star links. They could be fiber internet. But you’re taking these gateways, and then you’re spreading that signal across many devices and many unique users. And those unique users, while all using the same bandwidth, are actually being optimized with a protocol that’s saying, OK, you have this much bandwidth use coming from this person, this person, and this person. We have three gateways, so let’s call them three star links. How can we optimize making sure that that guy’s loading his video, those people are texting their family, and that person’s FaceTiming their mom? So that’s where a community network and community network algorithms really come into play. And oftentimes, if you actually put the infrastructure in place to make a self-sustaining community network, it’s actually faster, and the connection is better than sometimes if you just have a single fiber connection because of the way that protocol sharing goes and the way that package data can be transported across a network. So also, Rashi, stop me if there’s any good stuff coming into the chat. I was going to give you a moment to talk about community networks and anything you’ve seen in your experiences. I know you’ve been traveling all over Africa right now, and you’ve been traveling, and you have a lot of experience inside of the continent of India. Want to know if you had anything to say, or if there was anybody in the chat before? goes on now they have 100 megabits per second and they’re vibing they’re chilling but it’s actually one guy who bought a Starlink package one guy and he runs a cafe or he has a house and there’s hundreds of people coming to his house or his cafe and they’re just kind of sitting around operating off of a honor system of like oh we’ll give you like 10 cents per hour 20 cents per hour something like this and it’s just a cash or digital cash honor system right but it’s because one man or one person one woman could afford a Starlink and so the cultural evolution of the entire community wasn’t oh that’s your Starlink that’s not my Starlink the cultural evolution of the community was oh we’re a community network of people already before the internet got here you bought a Starlink that’s our Starlink like we’re all gonna be a part of this and so there’s actually a lot of interesting opportunities to instead of going at it from a classically Western perspective where it’s like every single house is gonna have to have a Starlink your car has to have a mini Starlink your house like your fourth other house has to have a Starlink or about no I live here my people live here I’m here I just need this meaningful connectivity standard which with the folks that we were talking to in Brazil and you can I feel like you guys invalidate this whatsapp it was like we would talk people like oh yeah are you using the Starlink to like watch Netflix and are you using it for this and that and this and it’s like no we’re just what’s happening everyone in the world at all times we’re sending voice memos like candy it’s just that that’s what we’re here to do and so we can talk about the use of cultures in the way they evolve around connectivity as a form of leapfrogging because once again you’re able to kind of redefine and deprogram your expectations you’re not trying to be the United States you’re not trying to be Britain or something like this you’re trying to be Brazil and you’re just trying to go online so for example I don’t know does anyone have any thoughts on how Singapore leapfrogged? It’s a little bit different Singapore leapfrogged in a different way, obviously they have fast internet, but they decided they were going to be a technology powerhouse. They were going to be a financial technology powerhouse. They burrowed deep on one leverage point, one aspect. Instead of saying, oh, we’re gonna try and create all these different sectors, we don’t have the land to create all these different sectors. What we do have is multinational partners and we have strategic leverage to push all our resources into a financial technology sector right next to Hong Kong. And that was a big move for them, but it’s also like what you see Taiwan doing, where they burrowed down deep on processors and superconductors and different computing modules that were needed for all of the major Western nations. And so we are talking about, oh, like energy, we’re talking about, oh, access to internet, but also leapfrogging is taking the sovereignty of your own community and your own resources and saying, hey, everybody, we’re gonna focus on this for 50 years and we’re gonna see everybody else later. And I want to give a chance, can you go to the Zoom? Rashi, keep me honest on this chat. I feel like Purnima has probably got, yeah, three chats in there. Can you bring up that chat for a second? I don’t have any responses from the chat yet. Okay. Oh, 160 megabits per second. Purnima is in which country? Purnima, so India is actually quite large.

AUDIENCE: So Purnima is, I think, based in Northern India, but Purnima would be able to tell you exactly where she is in India.

Jarrell James: Okay. Delhi, nice. So yes, another urban center, another urban core. I would like to, don’t make me do this. Passwords. Now I wanted to try to pivot to the kind of outside multinational stakeholder corporate influence that can come into how a country can leapfrog. And there’s both positive and there’s sometimes negative examples. Would you mind? Going back to the presentation. Third parties and leapfrogging, positive examples. I think, sorry, I think there’s a lot to be said about giant contracts like NAFTA, right? NAFTA being a large contributor to GDP of most North American countries, but at the same time Mexico, by being a part of NAFTA, was able to start bringing in multinational stakeholders from its neighboring countries and developing its own city grids and its own infrastructure around connectivity and energy. They had better access to deals around energy providers. They had better access to taxes and all these sorts of things. And I think another positive example would be South Korea. South Korea, out of a defensive position to some extent, we don’t need to go in all that stuff, but they had outside stakeholder access to the United States. The United States financial development sector got there and was like, hey, do you guys want dynasty families that run the hell out of a smartphone company or run the hell out of a fashion clothing company or all of these things? Let’s try and make that happen. And you see real sovereign development of these sectors because they made strategic deals with outside parties and multinational stakeholders. You can see some negative examples in Brazil, like I mentioned earlier. You guys should have tons of trains by now. You should have high-speed trains. You don’t. You have buses. And that was because the petrol lobbies of other countries were very interested in selling you their petrol and selling you their cars. And how long does it take you? Hey, what city do you live in? Sao Paulo, Rio de Janeiro? Huh?

AUDIENCE: Brasilia.

Jarrell James: Brasilia. Nice. What’s the nearest city to you?How far away is that by car?

AUDIENCE: From what?

Jarrell James: From Brasilia.

AUDIENCE: From Brasilia, I guess 500 kilometers, something like that.

Jarrell James: When you drive in a car, it’s about three, four, five hours?

AUDIENCE: No, I guess it’s like 12 hours, 10, 12 hours.

Jarrell James: Monetary advantage, would you say? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so a train would have evened that playing field. A train would have provided quick, fast transportation for everyone. Everyone would have been in the same Uber car.They would have all got to Disneyland at the same time. That’s kind of what we’re talking about when we say negative examples. And you can see this in the energy sector. You can see this in the communications, telecommunications sector intensely. I would be curious to know from the positive examples, some stuff from Saudi Arabia. I know that you guys have, what you said, energy sector and all this stuff. Feel free.

AUDIENCE: I want to call on Ahmed again to take us back to Saudi history and how the Saudi Aramco Oil Company came to be, because I think that’s a very good, positive example on the topic. So if we could just have a mic handed over to Ahmed, that would be excellent.

Jarrell James: Ahmed, if you want to chair, you guys get up here. Well, I’m chairing from this side, so that works too.

AHMAD: So in terms of collaboration with third party countries, so with the history of Saudi and how oil was first discovered in Saudi, that was late 60s, early 70s. And a lot of the work was done through U.S. collaboration. California Oil Company was the name of the company. And then Saudi started getting involved in collaborating with them and buying shares over time until it became Saudi Aramco, which is Saudi American company. So Aramco is, this is the history of how Aramco grew. And then that became the sovereign company that handles the energy sector within the country. So this is in terms of the positive third party and leapfrogging. And I think in terms of potential for future leapfrogging, what we’re seeing in collaborations, in terms of bringing technology. and having the collaborations in NEOM, in Riyadh, you see a lot of growth, a lot of people coming in from outside with their funding, with their technologies to grow the region in this sense. I think this is also another positive example that we want to collaborate further on and learn also from other countries and how well and how bad they did it as well.

AUDIENCE: And I think just adding on what Ahmad said and maybe also touching on a concept you mentioned earlier on maybe finding shared and mutual interests. So you mentioned in the Singapore example, land was very much a limitation and one thing we have very abundantly here in the kingdom is land. And especially when it comes to foreign investments in whatever field it may be, whether it’s an energy, whether it’s an advanced manufacturing, Saudi Arabia has a lot of let’s say incentives to offer to foreign investors, hence giving them the opportunity to try and explore different regions when it comes to expanding their portfolio. But also I think the Middle East as a region in general is a very central region in the sense that it connects you to Europe, it connects you to Africa, it connects you to Asia. So from a strategic point of view it’s also a very lucrative opportunity for foreign investments to come here and move their businesses to the kingdom.

Jarrell James: The stability being a huge factor of that. Stability of energy grids, like the deterioration of the resources that outside parties would be depending on is not likely. It’s a high likelihood it will be stable, which is oftentimes by design and oftentimes the opposite is also by design. So I want to give on that topic, could you turn it back, or no sorry, leave it here. Connor, I know you’ve spent, Connor has spent a really long time, many times in Djibouti pioneering these waypoints, working with the Ministry of Energy in Djibouti and working with a number of different stakeholders on building out a waypoint with rentable batteries that are providing about six charges for a cell phone, and if you look at the kilowatts per hour cost of charging a smartphone in many of these countries, it is orders of magnitude higher. than charging a smartphone in any of the developed countries. The concept of charging a smartphone is your gateway to the rest of the world. So if that costs a lot of money, you are going to automatically gravitate towards solutions that offset that cost for you. Because you need a critical, it’s a critical need. So Connor, your experience with, maybe you would call this neutral development, outside development in Djibouti. What is, what did you see there? How is it structured with the government and outside parties? And then what did you see from a cultural standpoint on how the Djiboutian people responded to the waypoint that had Starlink attached to it?

Conor Colwell: Yeah, hey, thanks. Yeah, I mean, basically, so that project was with USAID and then also with the Djiboutian Ministry of Energy, as you mentioned. So I think, I think in terms of like, so that project, we mainly focused on electricity access and water. And I think the, I guess a couple breakthroughs that we noticed. One was that, yeah, once there was access to energy, cell phones were definitely the primary, like, choice of charging. That was what everyone wanted immediately, which I think goes to say that internet access is super valuable. Just communication, access to information, and also access to media and like, I guess just like views of the outside world. That’s definitely the most popular use of electricity immediately, besides like comfort from fans and lighting, things like that. And so, yeah, like you were saying, it’s, once that’s available, it’s pretty difficult to like, to bring that back, or reel that back in. So… You’re saying once Pandora’s box is open? Yeah, especially with electricity, it’s like, you know, people want more. electricity as soon as they get a little bit of it. And I think it’s always changing because we now have much more efficient devices, so you don’t actually need a huge amount of electricity, but then at the same time, now we have AI that consumes huge amounts of electricity, so it’s always changing. And to the other point for the breakthrough that we noticed, working with the Djiboutian government, we were able to, at the end of our pilot, generate enough revenue to, I guess, economically support the ongoing operations and maintenance at the waypoint, which we learned as we were going through this process that that’s actually a hugely difficult thing, because a lot of microgrids are installed, they don’t have a proper business model for economic sustainability in place, and so they usually end up not being able to sell anywhere near the amount of energy that they generate to the community, and then they end up falling into disrepair. And so working with the ministry there, that was sort of a breakthrough moment almost for them as well, because they said that they’ve not been able to basically solve this problem themselves, and then they haven’t been able to find a private sector company that has been able to do that as well.

Jarrell James: Which it sounds like you guys were really focused on entering into a space, figuring out what the critical need infrastructure was like, figuring out what people actually wanted and how to provide meaningful steps to create what might be called meaningful connectivity or meaningful foundation for leapfrogging. So that is kind of where it takes us nicely into this question. I know we all saw a slide earlier on what meaningful connectivity was. Does anyone remember what it said? It was 4G speeds, access all the time, you had to have above 20 megabits per second, like these are all expectations of what meaningful connectivity is going to be. So can we do the next slide please? Okay, so when it comes to meaningful connectivity, I think what happens with that term, and this is no critique of that term or the communities that made it, but I think what it does, it still does a bit of an other. It does a classic other where it’s like I have far more meaningful connectivity and you have meaningful connectivity and I’ve done my job. And when we do that, we look at the language that is used to talk about these communities and we often see stuff like Global South and we don’t think that that’s taking into account the right potential of these places. These are places with far more resources than anyone really realizes. These are places with the fastest growing populations. These are places where the hustle, like I don’t know how many of you have met Nigerians, but I’m gonna go ahead and probably bet they’re probably harder workers than you, a lot of them. Like the hustle factor that comes into these regions by just, as Connor said, getting a little bit of access. Once you get enough power that you can start to make, you know, money or charge your phone consistently and you’re communicating via WhatsApp or whatever consistently at, let’s say, 5-10% more than you were last week, what part of you wants to go back? No part of you wants to go back. So you start to make demands of your region that, hey, like, let’s pick this up a second. Let’s leapfrog a little faster, which as Connor, I don’t think you mentioned, but I’ll embellish for you there. Connor was not mentioning that, like, the Ministry of Energy worked with them, but also then the police departments started renting batteries. The police departments were not being provided enough energy by their own governments to do their jobs. or charge their phones or charge any of their devices. So then you had these subsidies coming where the government themselves started to rent these batteries because like Connor mentioned, nobody had come in as a private company and actually managed to solve the problem and create a revenue model that that had an equitable exchange for the Djiboutian people. And I mean I think if we all know anything about this land the scope of Djibouti there is a there’s a bit of a culture around coming in and just doing what you want. So what’s the future of leapfrogging for many? Well I think we should ask ourselves questions right now. Are private businesses and government actors effectively achieving the connectivity SDG metrics like all of them? Because the UN has only hit 17% of its SDG goals with only five years left on the clock till 20 to 30 and meaningful connectivity has actually gone backwards not forwards. We’re seeing more internet shutdowns, we’re seeing more natural disasters that are destroying grids, we’re seeing those grids in turn destroying the connectivity infrastructure, we’re seeing a lot of push towards really low upward mobility tech jobs wherein these people are becoming oftentimes in Kenya we could have an example where the second they get meaningful connectivity it’s not meaningful connectivity in the sense that maybe many folks in the West would have it where it’s like oh I have jobs opportunities coming my way. It’s oftentimes put into developer sweatshops what I call them and as a developer and engineer I do believe I can say that because what you have are people who do all the work to learn Lagos Nigeria is a really good example learn programming they get a laptop through the programming school that they’re attending that programming school brings on a thousand people gives them a thousand laptops across the board and then the top hundred people are chosen to join the programming like boot camp and then when they graduate that means that those hundred people get to keep the laptops 900 people don’t get to keep laptops they go backwards they go back in time right but when they get those jobs or when they get the the work workshops, then they’re working for outside corporations, like OpenAI. 60 Minutes has a really solid segment they just did on OpenAI. Sir, can you turn this back on? OpenAI, they have a really good segment, I encourage you all to look it up, on how OpenAI is using Kenyan labor to do data labeling inside of Nairobi and paying people very minimal wages. In case anyone’s wondering, I would like to continue watching. And this is kind of where we see development going for communities around leapfrogging or people who get that base, that base level foundation. It’s like, cool, how can you be a tool for multinational corporations that have never heard of you or heard of your region or anything to do with you? Is there like a button I need to push? Because I will. Are we, is this, am I getting the hook right now? I think I have 40 minutes left. Let’s, I think I don’t really need the next slide for what goes here, is now we’ve talked a lot about connectivity and I want to like hand things over to Rashi real quick here, because I think it’s awesome to talk about connectivity and the infrastructure that goes into it and the energy demands and really building an understanding behind like, okay, unless you have something to plug a modem into, it doesn’t matter that you have the modem. If your energy doesn’t turn on, you can’t have internet access and these are parallel relationships. Now if we acknowledge that we’re doing that and we’re creating a foundation for people to build on by acknowledging those dependencies in that critical access, what are we actually insulating and what are we protecting and how is that providing any value to the community? That might be the next question we have. And so I think I’ll hand this over to Dua and Rashi, if we can get them back on. Sir, is there two seconds? I don’t think, I would imagine that the people… who are online and participating are not able to hear me right now, so it’s pretty pointless of me to ask them questions. No, I can’t hear you. I can only hear you in pockets, actually. You can hear me in what? I can hear you in pockets. In pockets. Okay. Well, then, let’s see if you can hear this in a pocket. Let’s talk about women’s, the existence of women in a connected community versus a non-connected community, and the safety around community. Did you hear that? Yes.

Raashi Saxena: No, I did. I did. It is. So, we do, in India, in many parts of the world, we do have, I would say, gendered access to the internet where you have low income households. Can everyone hear me?

Jarrell James: Yes.

Raashi Saxena: Okay, great. So, we do have a lot of households that usually have access to one internet connection, and what usually happens is that you have women who probably will have or get access to their side of the activities in terms of any tasks or even their businesses once the internet has passed on from the man to the child and then them. A lot of women also, as I said earlier, use it for informal businesses. We’ve seen this in parts of Northeast India and Northern India to carry on their businesses or to carry on their work and have internet shutdowns. And again, internet shutdowns in India don’t happen for a few hours. Some of them can be as long as over 100 days, 50 days, 40 days. Someone who is, for example, advocating for internet connectivity wants to send in a report or someone has committed to an order that they need to fulfill or even with telemedicine facilities during COVID especially, having frequent internet blockades erodes that. And there are very frivolous reasons for internet shutdowns in India. Someone shut down the internet in India because there was a university paper leak and someone was caught shooting. So, I think there really need to be ways in which how internet can be given. There are some interesting programs that are there on ground with Google, Internet Saathi, where they’re doing very interesting digital literacy programs on how to understand internet and how to train women to use internet in rural communities. I think they’ve trained around 5,000 or 6,000 women across states in the northern parts of India. There are also some interesting programs that are now taking place for cyber scams as well. But yeah, it’s usually women to women and women also are more likely not comfortable going online because of a lot of the cultural aspects, I mean, women like staying indoors and sometimes their freedom of speech and expression could get curtailed by, you know, of normal behavior online, so women are more culturally sensitive towards taking part in online activities. Of course, there’s interest, they have cultural and mobility challenges, but there is a lot more to gain in terms of all the remote opportunities and I’d also like to talk about how the internet can also be an equalizer for a lot of persons with disabilities as well.

Jarrell James: Okay, let’s pause there. I think, yeah, there’s a lot to digest there, but essentially, if I can summarize it well for you there, it’s the great equalizer, I love that you said that, it is, I think for what if you are getting properly deprogrammed here, I think we’ll have to admit that the internet is the great equalizer and megabits per second decide how much of that pie you’re actually able to get involved in, and so actual internet speeds and density and access is the great equalizer. We talk about the great equalizer, which I think we could actually open up to the floor here, is, like, obviously consistent meaningful connection is the basis for billions of dollars of local GDP unlocking, and we can give you some graphs on that. We’re going to skip that, because we’re already running out of time. So this is a really easy format to understand here. The correlation, which you can’t see the bottom here, but our source is from the website Our World in Data, a phenomenal website, go and check it out, but this is per capita electricity generation versus GDP per capita for whole continents. and the countries that are within those continents. And so if you look at South America, 1992 through 2022, we have only Paraguay, with its outside influence from the United States, managing to get above 5,000 kilowatts per person. And 5,000 kilowatts per person means that you have larger share of the GDP, which I wish we had the interactivity of this up, but I don’t have control of my laptop, so you’re all gonna have to take my numbers for what they are in my head. But the average about, if you have between 4,000 to 5,000 kilowatts per person, your average GDP per capita is somewhere around 22 to 32, $34,000 per person. And if you have, I think if you look at, we’ll go to the next one, but countries that are in the 500 kilowatts per person area, it’s like their national GDP is $1,000 per person per year. And it’s like their share, if you have 500 kilowatts per hour going to you, you’re getting a much smaller share of your country’s GDP than the person who has 100, 150 megabits, and let’s say 5,000 kilowatts an hour. Like they are most likely a 50K salary person per year. Here we have Oceania, which we also see under 5,000. And then you have the two more Western countries chilling hard at 10K, 10,000 kilowatts an hour. And so if we go to Africa, or sorry, North America and Asia, we have this interesting, same thing. You’re gonna see United States, all these folks way up here, the British colony of Bermuda, Aruba, they’re all right here, right below the 10,000. And then everyone else all the way down to Honduras and Belize are chilling at under 5,000, closer to about 1,000 kilowatts an hour. And so when you look at this data and you look. at how Kyrgyzstan and United Arab Emirates and Qatar and Bahrain, they’re all on the upper side of Asia and South Korea is there as well. South Korea got there because of outside, like we were talking about, positive multinational stakeholder support and that put them on par with a lot of these Arab states that had, like you were saying, Ahmed, mass influx of energy and efficiency by the population to develop their energy sector. And by doing that you have these states suddenly leapfrogging far beyond, like you were saying, what year were you saying that the first California oil was? Like 1962? Early 70s. So I’m pretty good at history. We were in South Korea long before 1970s and we were in Japan and we helped build up those those nations, the United States did. And yet since South Korea, with all that support, is on par with Saudi Arabia. You leapfrogged past a lot of that initial development that the United States was doing for South Korea and now you’re focused on, obviously, oil and they’re focused on cell phones. Go ahead.

AUDIENCE: One thing to note, I think that’s really worthy here, the infrastructure was not really existent before that. So really the infrastructure was built with the energy transition, so that really helped with reaching up to the higher level. There were no constraints on the infrastructure early on. So I think that really is…

Jarrell James: Are you saying the cities themselves weren’t built?

AUDIENCE: Yes, the cities, the infrastructure, everything grew with this. And I think just adding on what Ahmed said, you know, going back to Saudi history, we’re very much a nomadic culture, right? We were sons and men and women of the desert, we had our tents, our camels, that was our main means of transportation. So really oil has leapfrogged us all the way into industrialization and has allowed us to… It changed our culture. Exactly, it changed our culture, it has led us through into urban development and has changed the way that Saudis live and experience their lives today.

Jarrell James: That’s actually quite beautiful. I hadn’t really given that a lot of thought. I knew that you are nomadic people by nature, but I obviously didn’t play that into my cultural riffing. We could talk about, interestingly enough, actually in that video that I showed early, we talked about the destruction of the grid, right? We talked about natural disasters and other things like that. Well, by 2022 we’d all had seen Afghanistan going through its own troubles and like through the United States exiting. And Afghanistan, major oil production company, major energy developing country, was probably far right up there with Oman and Saudi Arabia and those other folks. But because of what happened, and like I mentioned in that video, leapfrogging is a privilege and it’s a right for many folks, but it’s also like a weaponized halt. Like you can revert a whole country if you take out the energy grid. That’s just the fact. So you can read any war history, you can read any strategy book of societies throughout mankind. Take out the energy grid, you take out the progress of that community. And so I think it’s really important to look at that as we see the rise and falls of civilization and create more global awareness around that. Hey, if we want to do meaningful connectivity for people, we should probably have meaningful energy resources. And there’s no way we’re gonna get to that by 2030 unless there are meaningful energy resources. Huge, huge that you guys are doing batteries and you’re thinking about sharing batteries and that battery technology with others, because I think that’s massive. That’s something that we’re all gonna need. If we look at Africa, it’s not great for us, gotta be honest, gotta be honest. We’re not doing great over there. And there’s a lot to be said about why that is. I don’t think I should go into it, but I’m not. But I think we all know there’s a lot to be said. This is gonna skip, come on. We want to see that move, yeah. So let’s just break it down, overview. North America GDP per capita, $63,023. Energy consumption per capita across the region, 54,651 kilowatts an hour per person. Is Europe 38.5, Europe 45,997. East Asia, 19,000 195 and 19,917 kilowatts an hour. There’s a direct correlation here with this with the disattachment and plus trust me there’s plenty of people that know that. So I don’t think we’re gonna do this part. We’re gonna go back real quick. I want to give Connor and yourselves as well the opportunity to discuss like okay Connor you’ve done small infrastructure plans. You’ve done like little grid deployments. You’ve started to like help people recognize sovereignty over their grid and you’ve seen what happens when people like start to get excited by that. I would love to know what your thoughts are around actually scoping out and building that vision much bigger. I think a lot of the folks here if I was you I would feel this way. I’d be like well that’s a really cool thing that whippersnapper is doing. He’s putting shipping containers with solar panels on the ground in some communities. Seems like they’re renting out a couple hundred batteries. That’s a really fun initiative. I’d love to see that the year end. But I don’t think that’s where we’re coming from and where like Parable and Liquid Star and working on the projects that we work on are coming from. These are pilots that we are designing and strategically building to scale and focus on how it can scale and what it means to create sovereignty in that way. So I’d love to give Connor the opportunity to speak and Karneema I’d love to hear from you as well around your energy consumption and megabits per second kind of thoughts because it sounds like you have a lot to say and I’ve really appreciated that you’ve gotten into the chat. Yeah thank you.

Conor Colwell: Yeah I mean maybe take it like a little step back and explain because you know there are a number of different companies out there that have been putting like energy generation systems and containerized form factor and sending them around the world. I guess one thing that we do very specifically different from all that is that we’re very much focused on I guess just like how efficiently can we convert a raw kilowatt hour from any source ideally sustainable and in our cases it’s all solar. But how can we convert that raw kilowatt hour into as many tangible useful things for humans. So I guess traditionally with a lot of the microgrids out there right now and I think I mentioned before why a lot of them fail is because all they do is make electricity and then you have to sell that to the community and that requires wires and like all this stuff and then it also requires the community to have things to consume that electricity which you know if you just have a feature phone to begin with you could work your way up to I guess more appliances and stuff but it’s not going to start there so the economic model kind of breaks down. But yeah I mean like our broad goal is really not just like how we can solve the energy aspect because like you know that we completely see as like foundational to like uh all all sort of I suppose you could say civilization to some extent I mean maybe it’s a comp it’s some some combination of energy plus raw resources plus information and those three things allow you to build almost anything. But uh but yeah I think our our goal is is uh it’s mentioned a few times but you know we would like to see about a hundred thousand waypoints built and distributed around the world um that we estimate could impact about 100 million people. I mean that is roughly looking at the you know the raw billion or so folks who don’t have access to electricity and then the two to two and a half that don’t have access to clean water and also internet. And so yeah we’re we’re kind of taking like a I don’t want to say double leapfrog approach but um we’re looking at like the complete like sort of system changes uh when it comes to like how infrastructure um has been done in the past. I mean if you look at if you look at dense city centers not saying we’re trying to like reinvent how cities are done but um it’s a super tangled web of uh wires and and pipes and and all of this and many points along those that web for leaks, inefficiencies like electrons being lost, water being lost, like fuel even being lost. And so we’re kind of trying to rethink entirely the model of not just how that those resources are distributed to communities, but how they’re like, you know, what you can actually like generate and create on site with just like baseline electricity. So yeah, to your point, JJ, I think we’re really, we’re really trying to, I mean, approach a variety of problems and using the technology that is available now, which I know is entirely possible. Like this is the thing, like all of this is possible now, it’s just a, I guess, a matter of motivation and coordination together and coordination. Yeah.

Jarrell James: And I want to pause there and speak to coordination because I think like you guys are hearing like yeah, LiquidStar with waypoints, charging stations, trying to create droppable energy infrastructure and currently people are excited by that and they’re traveling to the waypoints because the waypoints have star links at them that the people at the waypoints like LiquidStar need that internet access to maintain their service and connection to their outside partners. But now you have people, instead of using the delivery service and dropping the battery off with the bike guy to take it back to the station, they’re like, I’m going to walk the 1.5 kilometers to that waypoint because they have a star link and I’m going to get all my internet activity done there for the day, for the week, whatever I need. So I was a big supporter of LiquidStar earlier. I run a treasury that is a grants foundation that gives out grants with some friends and we were excited by LiquidStar like three years ago. My own region in East Africa got shut down from the internet for about three years and I realized it might be interesting to go talk to my friends over there in Djibouti about a little something something. And what we realized is if people are willing to walk all the way to the waypoint just to have access to electricity, there might be something to be said about inventing for the first time ever for some reason, a Wi-Fi capable portable battery. portable battery that has the ability to be a Wi-Fi access hub itself and so if we pair those things together people are renting this battery to charge their phones six or seven times in a couple days and they’re also using it as a gateway access point and by using that that’s what I call a parable and yeah I made it look cool because I really think it’s important that the Global South or what we call leapfrog regions actually starts to have the ability to own its own design language like it shouldn’t look like it’s an NGO product going to the leapfrog regions it should look like something that represents the creativity and the capacity of those people and so this was something this is a prototype we made my friend Keeks here and I co-founder of parable and we were giving you like the blueprint we come from these regions we are admittedly quite westernized we went to school and college in the United States and we have the audacity to think like Western tech users and Western tech entrepreneurs and what we do also have is the perspective that we care about a certain community of people and we recognize that those communities of people are about 2.3 2.6 billion people large and the amount of people that have lack of energy access is a huge portion of that same community right so there’s ways to pair these struggles together and actually I’d love to hear from you Keeks on this I think who you were the numbers on energy access of the populations of the planet I think it was sorry the 40% of people yes

AUDIENCE: So I believe it was 47% of the planet doesn’t have reliable access to energy consistent energy you start consistent energy and when you look at that that ends up being billions and billions of people right and when you consider the I mean obviously the humanitarian issue there where lack of access to reliable energy could mean okay there’s a power outage How do you, let’s say there’s a power outage, somebody gets hurt, how do you navigate to the nearest hospital? How do you contact family members, what have you? And then when you kind of like zoom out and look at it from an economic perspective, right? Every day, there’s a NetBlocks, I believe is the website, and NetBlocks cost calculator to see on a per country basis if the internet is shut down, which usually comes hand in hand with a power shutdown, how much money is lost from that country’s GDP, and it’s always eight to nine figures per day. And when you take that into consideration, the lack of consistent and reliable access to energy becomes not only a humanitarian issue, because usually when somebody’s pulling the plug, it’s so that somebody can’t report a bad thing being done, but it’s also an economic issue where if people don’t think that the access to energy is going to be reliable, it’s difficult to upscale, right? It’s difficult to turn the router on, it’s difficult to basically imagine.

Jarrell James: Speak to upscaling. I think that was gonna be my next question anyways. So I think from a Nigerian hustler perspective, and who, could you turn that mic off? Because I think we’re getting background noise. Thank you so much. Speak to that, the upscaling part, because that’s a really big part of what we’re focusing as well at Parable and LiquidStar and our combination here is like, how can we make an internet cafe out of an individual, essentially? And how can one individual with a parable have 16 connections from other people’s devices to his parable, and then that person is now enabling for upscaling throughout their community? And I think as a Lagotian and Nigerian, I think that you have a lot to say about hustle culture.

AUDIENCE: Yeah, so I didn’t go to school formally for engineering, unlike Jarrell, but throughout my career, I’ve kind of just worked my way up. But to speak broadly to upscaling. the way that a lot of the waypoints work currently is that in addition to, you know, water generation, energy generation, they’re looking at ways to basically say cool, let’s use this excess energy for compute, right? So they’re they’re setting up micro data centers within these waypoints and in addition to that they’re looking into long-term ways to cache, to cache content, right? And when you’re thinking about caching content in the context of upscaling, you could hypothetically look at the list, you can basically find and select a curriculum and find the videos tied to those curriculums and say cool, people want these jobs in this region. Instead of having people basically redundantly pay for the data to restream and watch these videos, you know, ten, hundred, several thousand times every month, you can just cache those videos and say cool, you’re going to this URL on YouTube, let’s just redirect you to a local intranet that you already have access to through the waypoint and that way you don’t have to pay for the extra data tied to this, but you can still upscale, right? You can still watch the videos, you can still learn, you can still go through the curriculum, get the, study for the certification, get the certification, learn a code, get that job.

Jarrell James: Tap in on that. And that’s where, and I’d love to kind of hear your side from like the Saudi perspective as a youth, as a youth leader and seeing that hustle culture come up in your own community, but to Keeks’s point here, it is the reality of realizing that you’re working every single day of your life to get a little bit of internet connection so you can learn a new skill like bricklaying or something like along those lines and then you could make a little bit more money so that you can be online to learn a little bit more and to get a different upskill. And so when you look at why they do this in regions that don’t have the money to be spending on data and watching the same video over and over again, if you spend 15% of your weekly paycheck on watching one video seven or eight times in some capacity in some regions, that’s always going to be the barrier for leapfrogging and upskilling for you. So when we look at these communities, we have to accept that much like Marshall McLuhan had said in the in the 70s, like challenge the assumptions with which your infrastructure or your reality is built. And like when we talk about these communities, they’re challenging, oh wait, why don’t we redefine what edge caching is? Why do we take the more Western or Northern perspectives on accessing information banks? And I think the most realistic thing that we see in our own lives around that is the library. Like we’ve removed the community aspect of the library in many societies by replacing it with the online experience, but the online experience isn’t there consistently for everyone. So I’d love to hear from you and then Rashi, as we start to, we’re getting about 20-15 minutes left, and then we’re gonna do 10 minutes left and we’re gonna open up for questions. I would love to hear from you too, and specifically on women as well, that are hustling and creating upskill opportunities for them. So it’s like, how does the internet play into this and what is the reality for you in that game?

AUDIENCE: Yeah, absolutely. I think, you know, I’m gonna speak on youth and women interchangeably because I’m not sure if the people in the room here know, but almost 60% of all Saudi nationals are under the age of 35. So the entire nation can be lumped into the category of youth, more or less. And I think one key thing that I’ve noticed, especially across this year, you know, interacting with youth groups right here in the kingdom, is that they’re very hungry for success, they’re hungry for educating themselves, and most importantly, they’re hungry for making an impact. And you see these kids, they’re 16, they’re 17 years old, and the internet has given them the ability to connect with a much wider network of people all around Saudi Arabia, but also all around the globe to launch initiatives, NGOs, startups. I remember I was at an event a few weeks ago and this 17-year-old is going, like his company is getting bought out by this big entire, yeah, this big thing, and I’m like, wow. I need to turn up the pace. So yeah, there’s a lot of incredible things that are happening, and of course, they’re all being enabled through the internet, through AI, and through this existing infrastructure. And of course, I would love to see that knowledge transfer happen to regions here in the Middle East, specifically when it comes to regions in North Africa or regions that have been disproportionately impacted by war and international conflict, in order for us to further support those communities in achieving meaningful connectivity.

Jarrell James: You’re saying like regional coalitions. Yeah, I love it. That takes us back to the beginning, why we believe there should be a last mile coalition inside of the UNIGF. Rashi, I’d love to hear from you. Rashi runs the, I believe it’s the TED chapter, the TEDx chapter, and the Bangalore chapter for the World Economic Forum. She is responsible for fostering a ton of Indian entrepreneurs and youth that are trying to come up and make something of themselves.

Raashi Saxena: Oh, thank you so much, TJ. I’m no longer with the TEDx chapters anymore, but I am, yes, I am a part of the youth-centric chapter, just called the Global Shapers, and every year they have an election, and I am the chapter head at the moment. I see a lot of opportunities, not just for youth, but for women when it comes to the internet, especially in India, where women are the workforce. We still have a huge gap when it comes to women at the workforce formally in India. It’s a lot, surprisingly a lot larger than many surrounding countries we are neighbors with. I will always say that given how, yeah, we as women are very flexible and having access to basic means of the internet can, there are a lot of creative ways in terms of livelihoods that one could honor. So, of course, economic well-being, social well-being, political well-being is necessary. I would also say that there are very interesting programs navigating through the digital literacy of it. We live in a world of scams which have which have deteriorated our financial systems and sectors across the world. You know there are organizations that specifically work on how people can bypass phishing scams and how you can be safe online, how people can use VPNs and a lot of actors are of course also doing a lot of sensitive work so how can you protect your own identity online. Some of the some of the very eminent work that’s done by whistleblowers across the world. I feel like there’s there’s a lot to be done with access yes but then there’s also work has to be done after that in terms of how does one become literate with you know enabling this ecosystem and how do you pay it forward. On that note I’d love to kind of transition us

Jarrell James: into the Q&A because I think what you’re talking about is something that I think there’s a lot of people here from the youth 20 movements and there was many Brazilians that were here from Y20 and I think when we talk about people being under 35 the majority of the population in Saudi Arabia my own region Ethiopia and Nigeria for keeks the youth are running things like the youth are the large population that’s coming up they have the technical know-how and so I’d love to hear from everyone here on like policy outcomes that you can see around the Y20 folks leading the connectivity conversation and we have about 10 minutes left so I’d love for anyone and everyone just to kind of get involved and I would actually ma’am over there in the corner. I’d love to hear from you. You’ve been avidly paying attention, locked in the whole time. So at some point we’d love if you had a thought. But yeah, I’d love to start with you.

AUDIENCE: Yeah, sure thing. So I think, like I opened in this discussion, are the policies that came out of the Y20 that were related to digital inclusion and digital connectivity were widely agreed upon. There was no need to negotiate. There was no need to lobby. We were very much all in agreement that that is of the utmost importance for all G20 countries, as well as the nine visiting countries that were hosted this year. And I think on the policy recommendations that emerged, one was on government subsidizing smartphones, laptops, and tablets, particularly for students. And I think that emerged out of, you know, COVID-19, things moving to remote education, and how a lot of those communities were disproportionately affected, given the fact that they didn’t have access to internet, and therefore did not have access to education for the majority of the two years of the pandemic. So that was one of the things that we wanted to look into.

Jarrell James: The same happened in the United States, where you suddenly, because of the pandemic, saw that there’s actually leapfrog communities living within the United States.

AUDIENCE: Exactly. And you can also see that now, now that kids are back in school, those same children are, you know, not necessarily getting the best grades, they didn’t necessarily get the right baseline. So it’s, you know, you might think it’s not really that big of an impact. It was only two years where they were behind on school, but they really missed out on some very fundamental concepts that have impact, that will continue to impact them in the future. So that was one. And I think another one that we really wanted to focus on was telehealth, particularly for women in marginalized and rural communities, because when it comes to reproductive health care and having the right access to information on how to take care of your baby, what you need to eat, it’s really important to kind of support those communities and give them the right level of information. And that doesn’t necessarily happen through brochures or papers, you know, they need continuous access to the internet, they need to have the ability to answer crucial questions immediately and effectively in order to protect their health and safeguard the health of their children. So those were maybe two of the key themes that emerged out of the Y20 discussions this year.

Jarrell James: I love that. There’s actually a ton of historic precedent to that. I mean, my own country of Ethiopia… Ethiopia, our birth rates were one in four died. When I was born, one in four is gone. And by 15 to 20 years later, there was a women’s health movement called I think the 100,000 Women March, where without connectivity, you had 100,000 women going from village to village not 100,000, but 10,000, really, going from village to village, telling women, don’t have babies this young or don’t have babies back to back. It is very detrimental to your health. There is a best way to feed your child. And if you look at Ethiopia between the years of 1992 to 2015, 2010, somewhere around there, it’s like they go from bottom 15% to top 15% of birth rates. And it is the education of women. So I mean, I’m fully, I fully believe that like just and to the greater point of Keeks earlier, and yourself, the hustlers of all of these cultures are women. Like in Tanzania, Ethiopia, East Africa, I’ve been all over and I’ll tell you, like when we go and do distributions of parables, we are looking towards populations of women to distribute the parables to. The economic capacity and the responsibility there is unmatched in the hunger. We have a few minutes left, and I’d love to hear from any of y’all on any of the topics you want.

ALEX MORA: Hi, I am Alex Mora. I am Alex Mora from Brazil. I am actually working and living here in Saudi. I just want to leave some words about everything I heard today. It’s fantastic projects you have. And from the perspective you mentioned on like having the internet as an equalizer, I think one crucial point to equalizing the lives of everyone along with the internet access and connectivity and bringing power to everyone is to put education in everything. Because that will be the transformation of every society, of every community. So if you manage to find a way to put, to attach all your programs. projects to educational, like primary schools, secondary schools, higher education, everywhere you land that project of power, it will be, I think, the best to make things like leapfrogging the lives of everyone to make them getting better value from that. Just to mention my background, I came from 19 years in the Brazilian Research and Education Network. I am a senior network engineer. I work with network engineering projects, internet access, internet architecture. And I am in the membership team of the GNA, which is the group of volunteers formed by professionals from research and education from all the countries in the world. And we have a mission to bring international collaboration for research and education everywhere and help meet humanity’s challenges. And we want to ensure that technology, infrastructure, investments of all partners and participants are utilized to interconnect research and education networks on a global scale. So I’d like to bring this to your attention that there are other groups of volunteers working on things similar like you do. And we are pretty much working on a similar fashion. We have work groups. We have engineers. We have researchers. We have people looking to solutions like you are to bring access to connected and disconnected people.

Jarrell James: Stick around then, because I want to talk to you.

ALEX MORA: And yeah, like our friends from Brazil, we’ve been doing a lot of things in Brazil that are very creative. For instance, the research and education network there made a public partnership, public private partnership with support for government. They made sure that everyone understood that education and science are not competing with incumbents or providers. So they managed to have agreements, for instance, that’s an amazing job, to power grids in the country. They have fiber optics running across the country through the power line. and one pair of that fiber can be shared, so most of the national Brazilian research and education backbone today runs on top of that infrastructure of the power grid lines of different regions in the country and they managed to bring the backbone capacity to 100 gigabits per second to connect higher education and now they are connecting the primary level in secondary, so schools, universities, everyone is benefiting from that and then also the project in the commercial providers there in Brazil, they also have managed to make agreements with commercial providers, so they are swapping capacity, they are swapping dark fibers and they are bringing access to low interest communities or places where the incumbents don’t have the incentive, the monetary incentive to bring access and then with that sharing capacity and sharing dark fibers, they managed to bring access to research and education to connect schools, to connect universities and they are also making good business with the commercial providers there, the small ones from Babrint.

Jarrell James: I want to tap into that real quick and then give someone else a chance to also respond, it sounds like you would like, sir could you give it to him? Thank you. What he was saying with the fiber lines and the power lines together, I mean in Brazil it’s forest, there’s a lot of forest, if you’re gonna deforest something, you’d rather not do it twice, so from a stakeholder perspective on the people doing the infrastructure, the decision to pair those two utilities quite closely in the dark fiber makes a lot of sense, that’s what I’m hearing as well and I want to just real quick, all of Wikipedia could probably fit on, if any of you have like a little stick in your pocket, it’s like eight gigabytes or whatever, all of Wikipedia can fit on that, like this is what we’re talking about and the perceptions, the assumptions we have around the internet is that that can’t fit on. on it, that Wikipedia is some giant database that has to be maintained by some internet gods. Sir, introduce yourself and let us hear what you have to say.

FOUAD RWABUHUNGU: Thank you very much. My name is Fouad Rwabuhungu. I’m from Tanzania, I just mentioned my country now. I’ve learned it, I love Tanzania. Thank you very much. And I want to talk about the story of leapfrogging in our country. It’s basically on rural electrification, where we collaborate with the World Bank, European Union. They are helping us to do the rural electrifications. But at the same time, we use the universal funds to deploy communication 4G sites to the village. So almost all villages are now covered with electricity, but the issue now is connectivity. But that’s done through the collaboration between the World Bank and the European Union.

Jarrell James: Oh, no, we’re actually talking to your technology minister right now. We’re trying to get a pilot going in Tanzania.

FOUAD RWABUHUNGU: OK, OK, that’s fantastic. I think he was in Riyadh, maybe I still hear him.

Jarrell James: Hey, you go ahead and throw him my way.

FOUAD RWABUHUNGU: OK, thank you very much. That’s my short story.

Jarrell James: Well, thank you all. This has been awesome. I really appreciate everybody coming. This has been a really solid showing by Brazil and Saudi Arabia, thank you. This is what we’re talking about. We’re talking about the parallel relationships between energy and connectivity, and we’re talking about ownership and sovereignty by taking those utilities for what they are and taking leadership when it comes to those developments for your own regions. We believe in leapfrog regions, and we think that everyone should take a moment to stop letting themselves be called the global south and maybe start letting themselves put themselves in that mindset of, oh, we could go beyond the West. We could take this further than the West has taken this, and that’s what it means to leapfrog. Thank you to everyone. Thank you to Dua. Thank you to Keeks. Thank you to Connor and Rashi up on top. Purnima as well. Thank you. And to everyone that participated we’re gonna be around here for a moment And we’ll be here for the rest of the week. We’d love to talk

Agreement Points

Importance of leapfrogging for technological and economic development

OKIKI

DUA

Jarrell James

ALEX MORA

Leapfrogging allows countries to skip stages of economic development

Saudi Arabia leapfrogged from nomadic culture to industrialization through oil development

Leapfrogging requires challenging assumptions about infrastructure and development

Brazil leapfrogged in internet connectivity, skipping landlines and going straight to mobile

Multiple speakers agreed on the significance of leapfrogging as a means for countries to rapidly advance their technological and economic development by skipping intermediate stages.

Correlation between energy access and economic development

Jarrell James

AUDIENCE

There’s a direct correlation between per capita electricity generation and GDP

Nearly half the planet lacks reliable access to energy, impacting economic development

Speakers highlighted the strong relationship between energy access and economic development, emphasizing how lack of reliable energy access hinders economic growth.

Need for innovative last-mile connectivity solutions

Jarrell James

Conor Colwell

FOUAD RWABUHUNGU

Community networks can optimize limited bandwidth for multiple users

Portable Wi-Fi capable batteries can serve as gateway access points

Waypoints provide solar-powered micro data centers for electricity, water, and internet

Rural electrification paired with 4G deployment is connecting villages in Tanzania

Multiple speakers presented innovative solutions for last-mile connectivity, emphasizing the need for creative approaches to bring internet access to underserved areas.

Similar Viewpoints

Both speakers emphasized the importance of improving internet access and digital literacy for women, particularly in rural areas, to enhance their access to healthcare information and economic opportunities.

DUA

Raashi Saxena

Focus on telehealth access, particularly for women in rural communities

Women often have limited access to household internet connections

Digital literacy programs are helping women in rural India use the internet

Both speakers highlighted the importance of integrating internet connectivity with education, either through infrastructure projects or device subsidies, to empower youth and enhance learning opportunities.

ALEX MORA

DUA

Attaching connectivity projects to educational institutions at all levels

Government subsidies for devices like smartphones and laptops for students

Youth are leveraging internet connectivity to launch initiatives and startups

Unexpected Consensus

Importance of local content caching for education and cost reduction

AUDIENCE

Jarrell James

Caching educational content locally can reduce data costs for upskilling

Community networks can optimize limited bandwidth for multiple users

There was an unexpected consensus on the importance of local content caching and optimization for education and cost reduction in areas with limited connectivity. This approach challenges traditional assumptions about internet access and content delivery.

Overall Assessment

Summary

The main areas of agreement included the importance of leapfrogging for rapid development, the strong correlation between energy access and economic growth, and the need for innovative last-mile connectivity solutions. There was also consensus on the importance of improving internet access for women and integrating connectivity with education.

Consensus level

The level of consensus among speakers was relatively high, particularly on the fundamental issues of leapfrogging and the importance of energy and internet access for development. This consensus suggests a shared understanding of the challenges and potential solutions for improving connectivity in underserved areas, which could facilitate more coordinated efforts in addressing these issues.

Different Viewpoints

Approach to leapfrogging

OKIKI

DUA

Jarrell James

Leapfrogging allows countries to skip stages of economic development

Saudi Arabia leapfrogged from nomadic culture to industrialization through oil development

Leapfrogging requires challenging assumptions about infrastructure and development

While all speakers agree on the concept of leapfrogging, they emphasize different aspects and approaches. OKIKI focuses on skipping economic development stages, DUA highlights Saudi Arabia’s rapid industrialization through oil, and Jarrell James stresses the need to challenge assumptions about infrastructure and development.

Unexpected Differences

Focus on energy vs. internet connectivity

Jarrell James

FOUAD RWABUHUNGU

There’s a direct correlation between per capita electricity generation and GDP

Rural electrification paired with 4G deployment is connecting villages in Tanzania

While both speakers discuss infrastructure development, Jarrell James emphasizes the importance of energy generation for economic development, while FOUAD RWABUHUNGU presents a more integrated approach of combining rural electrification with 4G deployment. This unexpected difference highlights the varying priorities in different regions.

Overall Assessment

summary

The main areas of disagreement revolve around the specific approaches to leapfrogging, the prioritization of energy vs. internet connectivity, and the methods for improving digital access and education.

difference_level

The level of disagreement among the speakers is moderate. While there is general agreement on the importance of connectivity and development, speakers offer diverse perspectives and solutions based on their regional experiences and expertise. These differences in approach could lead to a more comprehensive understanding of the challenges and potential solutions for last-mile connectivity and leapfrogging in various contexts.

Partial Agreements

All speakers agree on the importance of improving connectivity for education, but they propose different methods. DUA suggests government subsidies for devices, Jarrell James proposes community networks to optimize bandwidth, and ALEX MORA advocates for attaching connectivity projects to educational institutions.

DUA

Jarrell James

ALEX MORA

Government subsidies for devices like smartphones and laptops for students

Community networks can optimize limited bandwidth for multiple users

Attaching connectivity projects to educational institutions at all levels

Similar Viewpoints

Both speakers emphasized the importance of improving internet access and digital literacy for women, particularly in rural areas, to enhance their access to healthcare information and economic opportunities.

DUA

Raashi Saxena

Focus on telehealth access, particularly for women in rural communities

Women often have limited access to household internet connections

Digital literacy programs are helping women in rural India use the internet

Both speakers highlighted the importance of integrating internet connectivity with education, either through infrastructure projects or device subsidies, to empower youth and enhance learning opportunities.

ALEX MORA

DUA

Attaching connectivity projects to educational institutions at all levels

Government subsidies for devices like smartphones and laptops for students

Youth are leveraging internet connectivity to launch initiatives and startups

Key Takeaways

Leapfrogging allows developing countries to skip stages of technological development and potentially surpass developed nations

There is a strong correlation between energy access, internet connectivity, and economic development

Last mile connectivity solutions like Waypoints and portable Wi-Fi batteries can help bridge the digital divide

Internet access has a significant impact on marginalized groups, particularly women and youth

Policy interventions and public-private partnerships are crucial for expanding digital inclusion

Resolutions and Action Items

Proposal to create a Last Mile Coalition within the UN Internet Governance Forum

Plan to deploy 100,000 Waypoints globally to impact about 100 million people

Initiative to distribute Parable portable Wi-Fi batteries, focusing on women as key economic drivers

Suggestion to attach connectivity projects to educational institutions at all levels

Unresolved Issues

How to achieve the UN’s goal of meaningful connectivity for all by 2030 given current progress

Balancing the involvement of multinational corporations with local sovereignty in infrastructure development

Addressing the potential negative impacts of leapfrogging, such as job displacement or cultural shifts

Ensuring long-term economic sustainability of community-based connectivity solutions

Suggested Compromises

Partnering with existing power grid infrastructure to deploy fiber optic networks, as done in Brazil

Using community networks to optimize limited bandwidth across multiple users

Caching educational content locally to reduce data costs while still providing access to information

Collaborating with international organizations like the World Bank for rural electrification while using universal funds for communication infrastructure

Leapfrogging, as I understand it, basically what happens when a country skips stages of economic development. When you think about how in the U.S. you had telegrams and telephones and cell phones, you kind of see that as like steps, right? But in countries like Nigeria, for example, you didn’t really have widespread landlines and telephone lines before everyone in the country had a cell phone.

speaker

Keeks

reason

This comment provides a clear and relatable explanation of the concept of leapfrogging, which is central to the discussion. It challenges the assumption that all countries must follow the same linear path of technological development.

impact

This explanation set the stage for the rest of the discussion by providing a framework for understanding how developing countries can rapidly advance technologically. It led to further exploration of specific examples of leapfrogging in different countries.

So in terms of energy, we’re looking for alternative energy sources and how we can really translate electricity, which can be abundant in Saudi in terms of solar and wind. Can that be translated into long-term storage? Short-term storage in terms of batteries is something that’s already growing, but the medium and long-term storage in terms of chemicals, storage to chemicals, I think that’s something we’re really seeing developments in there, how you take ammonia, for example, as an energy carrier and transport it internationally.

speaker

Ahmad

reason

This comment introduces the complex technical challenges and innovative solutions being explored in energy storage and transportation. It demonstrates how leapfrogging isn’t just about adopting existing technologies, but also about pushing the boundaries of current technological capabilities.

impact

This comment shifted the discussion towards more specific technological innovations and their potential impact on energy infrastructure. It led to a deeper exploration of how countries like Saudi Arabia are positioning themselves at the forefront of energy technology.

Waypoints are solar-powered micro data centers that reimagine mini-grids using AI to efficiently distribute electricity across multiple revenue-generating services. They don’t just provide electricity, they unlock its potential.

speaker

Connor (via video presentation)

reason

This comment introduces a concrete example of an innovative solution that addresses multiple challenges simultaneously – energy, connectivity, and economic development. It illustrates how leapfrogging can involve creating entirely new technological paradigms.

impact

This presentation sparked discussion about practical implementations of leapfrogging technologies and how they can be designed to meet multiple needs in developing communities. It led to further exploration of the economic and social impacts of such technologies.

We live in a world of scams which have deteriorated our financial systems and sectors across the world. You know there are organizations that specifically work on how people can bypass phishing scams and how you can be safe online, how people can use VPNs and a lot of actors are of course also doing a lot of sensitive work so how can you protect your own identity online.

speaker

Raashi Saxena

reason

This comment brings attention to the often-overlooked challenges and risks that come with increased connectivity. It highlights the need for digital literacy and security alongside infrastructure development.

impact

This comment broadened the discussion beyond just infrastructure and access to include the importance of education and security in the digital realm. It led to consideration of the holistic approach needed for successful technological leapfrogging.

For instance, the research and education network there made a public partnership, public private partnership with support for government. They made sure that everyone understood that education and science are not competing with incumbents or providers. So they managed to have agreements, for instance, that’s an amazing job, to power grids in the country. They have fiber optics running across the country through the power line.

speaker

Alex Mora

reason

This comment provides a concrete example of successful collaboration between public and private sectors to improve infrastructure. It demonstrates how creative solutions can overcome traditional barriers to development.

impact

This comment shifted the discussion towards practical policy solutions and the importance of collaboration between different sectors. It led to consideration of how similar models could be applied in other countries.

Overall Assessment

These key comments shaped the discussion by progressively deepening the understanding of leapfrogging from a general concept to specific technological innovations and practical implementations. They broadened the scope of the conversation from purely technological considerations to include economic, social, and policy dimensions. The discussion evolved from defining leapfrogging to exploring its manifestations in energy and connectivity, then to considering the challenges and opportunities it presents, and finally to examining concrete examples and potential solutions. This progression allowed for a comprehensive exploration of the topic, touching on theoretical concepts, technological innovations, social impacts, and policy considerations.

How can we create more global awareness around the importance of energy resources for meaningful connectivity?

speaker

Jarrell James

explanation

This is crucial for achieving the UN’s connectivity goals by 2030 and ensuring sustainable development in leapfrogging regions.

What are the potential applications and impacts of chemical battery storage technologies being developed in Saudi Arabia?

speaker

Ahmad

explanation

This could be a key factor in enabling sustainable energy solutions and supporting leapfrogging in developing regions.

How can we develop and implement policies to subsidize smartphones, laptops, and tablets for students, particularly in light of the COVID-19 pandemic’s impact on education?

speaker

Dua

explanation

This is important for ensuring equal access to education and preventing long-term negative impacts on students from marginalized communities.

What are the best strategies for implementing and expanding telehealth services, particularly for women in marginalized and rural communities?

speaker

Dua

explanation

This could significantly improve access to healthcare information and services in underserved areas.

How can we better integrate education into connectivity and energy access projects to maximize their transformative potential?

speaker

Alex Mora

explanation

Combining connectivity initiatives with educational programs could enhance the overall impact on community development.

What are the possibilities for expanding the model of using power grid infrastructure to deploy fiber optic networks in other countries?

speaker

Alex Mora

explanation

This approach has been successful in Brazil and could potentially be applied in other regions to improve connectivity.

How can we further develop and scale the concept of community networks and optimize bandwidth sharing algorithms?

speaker

Jarrell James

explanation

This could provide more efficient and cost-effective connectivity solutions for underserved areas.

What are the potential applications and impacts of portable Wi-Fi capable batteries (like the Parable) in leapfrogging regions?

speaker

Jarrell James

explanation

This technology could significantly improve internet access and energy availability in remote areas.

How can we better leverage youth leadership and initiatives in driving connectivity and technological development in leapfrogging regions?

speaker

Dua

explanation

Given the large youth populations in many developing countries, their involvement could be crucial for successful leapfrogging.

What are the best practices for implementing digital literacy programs, particularly focusing on cybersecurity and safe internet usage in developing regions?

speaker

Raashi Saxena

explanation

As connectivity increases, ensuring safe and effective internet use becomes increasingly important.

Summary

This discussion focused on the adoption and maturation of artificial intelligence (AI) in organizations. Dr. Lamya Alomair began by providing a historical overview of AI development and its potential applications across various industries. She emphasized the importance of understanding AI’s core philosophy and starting with key projects to drive adoption.

Abdullah Alshamrani then presented findings from a survey of 650 organizations implementing AI. He highlighted that only 10% of surveyed organizations were considered AI-mature. The discussion revealed that generative AI has significantly impacted overall AI adoption, pushing organizations to upskill staff, increase AI implementation, and focus on AI governance.

Key challenges in AI adoption were discussed, including lack of trust, business alignment issues, and difficulties in demonstrating AI value. The speakers emphasized that 52% of AI projects never reach production, and piloting an AI project takes an average of 8 months.

Four main lessons for successful AI adoption were presented: implementing a scalable AI operating model, focusing on AI engineering practices, prioritizing upskilling and change management, and establishing robust AI governance. The speakers stressed the importance of building strong foundations rather than chasing the latest AI trends.

The discussion concluded with advice on improving self-confidence in AI development and the need for continuous upskilling to keep pace with rapid advancements in the field. Overall, the speakers emphasized the critical importance of a systematic, foundational approach to AI adoption for organizations aiming to become AI-enabled across multiple business units.

Keypoints

Major discussion points:

– Overview of AI history and development

– Impact of generative AI on overall AI adoption in organizations

– Challenges in implementing AI, including high failure rates and long pilot times

– Key practices of AI-mature organizations, including hybrid operating models, AI engineering, upskilling, and governance

– Importance of focusing on foundational elements rather than “shiny objects” when adopting AI

Overall purpose:

The goal of this discussion was to provide an overview of AI development and adoption in organizations, highlighting both the opportunities and challenges. The speakers aimed to share insights on how to successfully implement AI based on surveys of mature AI organizations.

Tone:

The overall tone was informative and instructional. The speakers maintained a professional, authoritative tone throughout as they presented research findings and recommendations. There was a slight shift to a more conversational tone during the Q&A at the end, but it remained largely educational in nature.

Speakers

– Abdullah Alshamrani

Role: Executive partner at Gartner

Expertise: AI adoption, organizational AI maturity

– Dr. Lamya Alomair

Role: Acting on the WT ship of technology foresight and digital economy at NCIT

Expertise: AI, technology foresight, digital economy

– Audience

Role: Attendees asking questions

Additional speakers:

– Dr. Laila Umayyad

Role: Co-host from NCIT

Expertise: Not specified

Expanded Summary of AI Adoption and Maturity Discussion

Introduction:

This discussion featured Abdullah Alshamrani, Executive Partner at Gartner, and Dr. Lamya Alomair, Acting on the leadership of technology foresight and digital economy at NCIT. The speakers provided insights into AI development, its impact on businesses, challenges in implementation, and best practices for successful adoption.

Historical Context and Foundations of AI:

Dr. Lamya Alomair presented a comprehensive historical overview of AI development from the 1950s to the present. She highlighted key milestones such as Alan Turing’s test, the first robot at General Motors, and the recent development of ChatGPT. Dr. Alomair emphasized the importance of understanding AI’s core philosophy, explaining that cognitive systems form the basis of AI, with machine learning and deep learning as subsets. She stressed the significance of AI in improving human cognitive abilities, framing it as a transformative technology that enhances our thinking capabilities.

Dr. Alomair also discussed the importance of use cases in AI adoption, presenting a formula for successful AI application: Use Case + Data + AI Algorithm = Value. She emphasized that organizations should focus on identifying valuable use cases before implementing AI solutions.

Impact of Generative AI:

Abdullah Alshamrani presented findings from a survey of 650 organizations implementing AI. He highlighted the significant impact of generative AI on overall AI adoption, noting that it has led to:

1. A rapid rise to prominence in organizations

2. Increased focus on AI upskilling and governance

3. A doubling of AI adoption in organizations over the past two years

Alshamrani provided specific statistics, including that 45% of organizations have adopted or plan to adopt generative AI within the next 12 months. This surge in interest has pushed organizations to upskill staff, increase AI implementation, and focus on AI governance.

Challenges in AI Adoption:

The speakers identified several key challenges in AI adoption:

1. High failure rate: 52% of AI projects never reach production

2. Long pilot times: An average of 8 months to pilot an AI project

3. Lack of trust in AI systems

4. Business alignment issues

5. Difficulties in demonstrating AI value

6. Data quality problems

7. Technical implementation challenges

8. Cost considerations, particularly for generative AI

Alshamrani emphasized the significance of the 52% failure rate, noting the substantial resources invested in AI projects that ultimately fail to deliver value. He also highlighted that only 54% of AI projects move from pilot to production, indicating a significant gap in successful implementation.

Best Practices for AI Maturity:

The discussion revealed that only 10% of surveyed organizations were considered AI-mature, applying AI across multiple business units and processes. Alshamrani presented four main lessons for successful AI adoption:

1. Implementing a scalable AI operating model:

– Adopt a hybrid model with centralized capabilities working alongside business units

– Develop reusable AI components and design patterns

2. Focusing on AI engineering practices:

– Establish robust pipelines for AI development and deployment

– Manage AI projects efficiently from conception to production

– Create reusable components to accelerate AI development and reduce costs

3. Prioritizing upskilling and change management:

– Implement AI literacy programs across all organizational levels

– Focus on both technical AI skills and broader AI understanding

4. Establishing robust AI governance:

– Address trust, risk, and security concerns

– Develop comprehensive frameworks for responsible AI use

– Include elements such as AI principles, risk assessment, and ongoing monitoring

Alshamrani stressed the importance of building strong foundations rather than chasing the latest AI trends or “shiny objects”. This approach was deemed crucial for organizations aiming to become AI-enabled across multiple business units.

Future of AI and Continuous Learning:

Dr. Alomair emphasized the importance of staying updated with AI developments and the need for continuous upskilling in AI. This sentiment was echoed in an audience question about improving self-confidence in AI development. Dr. Alomair advised starting with small projects, collaborating with others, and continuously learning to build confidence in AI development skills.

Conclusion:

The discussion provided a comprehensive view of AI’s transformative potential while highlighting the practical challenges of implementation. It encouraged a balanced and nuanced understanding of AI’s role in business and society, emphasizing the need for a structured approach focused on foundational elements and realistic expectations. Both speakers stressed the importance of continuous learning, strategic implementation, and robust governance in achieving AI maturity and success.

Key Takeaways:

1. AI adoption has doubled in organizations over the past two years, driven significantly by generative AI.

2. Only about 10% of surveyed organizations are considered AI mature.

3. Major challenges in AI adoption include high failure rates, lack of trust, business alignment, and data quality issues.

4. Key practices for AI maturity include implementing a hybrid operating model, focusing on AI engineering, prioritizing upskilling, and establishing robust governance.

5. Organizations should focus on building strong foundations for AI rather than chasing the latest trends.

6. Continuous learning and upskilling are crucial for individuals and organizations to keep pace with AI advancements.

Abdullah Alshamrani: Okay. Abu Khalid, you’re done? Okay. Bismillahir Rahmanir Rahim. Assalamu alaikum. Assalamu alaikum. Assalamu alaikum. Good morning, everyone. It is my pleasure to, to IEF, of course, and to this session, and myself, a co-host here, Dr. Laila Umayyad from NCIT, acting on the WT ship of technology foresight and digital economy. We’ll be delivering very interesting, has the foundation of AI, as well as some of the qualitative and quantitative data related to what mature organization AI, or what AI mature organizations are doing in that space. By way of introduction, my name is Abdushamani, an executive partner in Gartner, and without further ado, I will hand over to Dr. Laila Umayyad, who has an immense experience in AI domain, and we’ll be going through the first section of this presentation. Go ahead, doctor.

Dr. Lamya Alomair: Thank you, Amir Abdullah. Now, I’m going to talk about today. I will start with the question, which is, do you think technology can help? And do you think AI can help? When I start this, I will talk about the industrial revolution. When the first industrial revolution comes, it helps us with the steam engine, people to move around. And then when the second industrial revolution comes, with the electricity, it helps people to see even at night. And the third industrial revolution, with the communication and electronics, it also helps people to communicate all over the globe. So all the three industrial revolutions help our physical ability. But with the fourth industrial revolution, there is one more ability that comes with AI. It improves our cognitive thinking. So here, what I’m saying, that with AI, our cognitive ability is moving. So before, always we said that from the history, you can understand what will happen in the future. So, I will just talk about very brief history about AI. So everyone think AI started very soon? No, AI started in 1950, okay? When a mathematical professor, Alan Turner, was thinking, if the computer can think like human. So this is the starting point, 1950. So he trained the computer with information, and also he bring a human, and then he asked a couple of questions for this computer, and a couple of these questions for a human, and then he give a judge the answer of these two individual, computer and a human. And then, guess what? This judge could not distinguish between which one come from a computer, and which one come from human. In this moment, Alan Turner said, okay, that means that computer can think like a human. Then in 1955, John McKenzie in a conference, he launched the name of AI. After that, moving to the first robot, which was in General Motors. So, in General Motors factory, they don’t want to touch the chemicals, so they start with the first robot. So in 1961. After that, I just want to introduce you to the grandmother of Chad DBT, it’s Aliza. In MIT, in 1965, they have Aliza, which is the first chatbot. It was simple, but 25 years later, we got our Chad DBT. So Aliza is the grandmother, what I say, for our chatbot now. And then, you can see like around 25 years, there is nothing moving in AI. And then in 1997, IBM have this program called DEEP2, which is this program, beat the chess champion in the chessboard. So since then, IBM, they start doing these changes and they start to know that, okay, let’s do another champion. In 1999, in the lab of MIT also, one professor, she had the first promotional robot. So they merged the AI with the robot, so they got the first promotional robot. After that, Google started doing the self-driving car. And just to let you know, how important is the data for this and how to be on it also. Very mature when you use it. When they use it, they train it for only white people. And then when there’s a black guy who want to drive this car, it did not drive because there is missing data. This is where ethics coming and maturity of the data. And then, maybe some of you know the Jeopardy game. In 2011, IBM, they got the, what’s the word? The program that beat the Jeopardy champion. Then they continue doing, Google, they do also the DeepMind, another program. In 2017, there is a breakthrough in machine learning for skin cancer and also retinitis. So they start also the field of health here. And then in 2020, OpenAI, they launched the beginning of the Jeopardy game, which was an NLP, a natural app, which is going to the six and try to find the magic. And everybody remember 21 when Corona hit us and we need a vaccine, we need a good vaccine. So using AI, that’s why we can get the vaccine quickly. In DeepMind, AlphaFold, the protein structure can be predicted very quickly with the protein structure. It was taking like 10 years to have the sequence of the protein translated using the biophysics and then have the structure and then try to find drug discovery. But AlphaFold, it predicts the structure of protein very quickly and then the discovery of drug discovery. Also, we’re very proud to say that in 23, we had Alam, which is from Zadaiya, which is an authority and also they are improving now. Saying all of this huge history, we want to predict the future. We want to see what this will take. And at the same time, we try to learn from the journey before for having a new future. That’s why today me and my colleague, Engineer Abdullah, will try to give you a sample how to be a mature in applying this. So everyone is asking, what is the definition of AI? There is plenty of definition. But let’s say here, it’s a cognitive system, as I mentioned in the beginning. Cognitive system is a natural or artificial system that’s connected together, taking all this information and data and translate it to an output that mean something, understand, something we can get information from it. Something that decision maker can make the decision. Underneath this whole information, the artificial intelligence, again, it is a program algorithm that’s connected together, that’s getting all this information and have something analyzing, coding, and everything. This AI, after we say cognitive, and then the artificial intelligence, after that, there is a machine learning, which is a subdivision of AI. The machine learning is how to teach the machine with all this information. So we get all that data, and then we get this machine learning. Underneath this machine learning is N and V, which is analysis. So in the machine learning, there is different deep learning also. It’s the same as machine learning, but it has a different layer. All of these have a support application who creates optimizing system, N and V is the name for the tractor, but all of these is dependent on one view to understand the problem of the piece of AI, which is the cognitive system. So all of this can be created, and we can see any user group of this AI, either this is one of these machine learning, or having two or three, or having two or three of this machine learning. So next, we will have a look at a little bit more information than what we are here, and we are looking forward to… I forget about AI, about the elements of AI, about how to start it, about how to mature it. So, when we go and see, okay, what is the prioritization that can be in the business field of the government here? We just give you an example here. Government entity, or operational excellency or accomplishment of the government. When we look to AI, there’s customer experience, which is how we make the best of the government, how we put the customer in different segments, how we can plan our brand in different ways. When we go to operational, this is where we have how to manage, how to maintain, how to maximize the trust that we have. When we see business elements planning, programming, this can help us. And then, look at the function of how we can align with different companies, different organizations, different governments, how we can monitor it, how we can follow the signals that happen. All this, that can AI help us, is again the question. The new business here, I know it will be having some, creating some new rules, new rules, new rules, new rules, creating some new jobs, removing some jobs, but really, the new business will be, if we study it very well, it will be having a great impact. So, again, the AI can help us. I will just try to explain one example today. So, if you’re asking us how we can have the best and the most quality, maybe the machine learning. I told you about the machine learning. The machine learning is the computer algorithm that you give it some data and it will learn. So, if we give the data, the machine learning can give us any alternative that we want. And then if we apply the business model, how we find the business model, that’s what we can take, okay? Using the pool-based system, to make it according to divide and see who is the business, by understanding the rhythm that we are. And then, how we can optimize the inventory and making the, optimizing it, even if it means, decrease and lower the cost, make the benefit of all the information. So, all the AI can help us, okay? Now, let’s see how the campus can be optimized. So, the most important point here, when I talk about how to optimize the production quality, because we are caring about quality, we know that using AI can increase the quality. So, how does it mean we buy, embed it, analyze it, then try it, and then we teach them what is the pieces that maybe need failure. We can’t get it out. This is 60% of the failure. And then, I wanna use it to, so how we can analyze it. There are 20,000 things that can be analyzed. For example, if you take your cost for maintenance, okay, and then, for one piece, and then there is another one, you would analyze it using AI, and then you need another piece of maintenance. So, if we see the time, we have to be prepared. It is just going and coming. So, using the AI will reduce the time that we need to be prepared. Quality of time in the website, worldwide, with the 50,000 and 140,000, 1,400, 1,400, 1,400, this is very important, you know? And then, also, we are trying to make our life easier. We don’t want that any medicine, any services, all this will reduce time, and it will, the quality of our life, the quality of life will be reduced. And, I’ll tell you one thing. What I learned from education and biology is that we need the right formula for having the correct, applied framework. It is not easy to apply AI. It’s very difficult. That’s why we say it’s very helpful. I love it. It’s very helpful. That’s why we have it as well. So, the use, and referring to the use case, we have to study use cases very well. Not any use cases, I mean, the use cases that give us value. We understand it now. And, then, it’s very, very important. So, I usually say, with the booger, booger virus, they don’t know how to use a booger mask. It is not that, it’s not that easy for them. So, after care, it’s very, very important. So, nobody can do jobs if they are not dealing with them. Then, the disease, the disease. I usually say, there is a tsunami of disease. Okay, but how do you deal with it? This is very important. So, it’s very important to know about it, to have it, so we understand. So, these three, and number four, is very important, but I did not know that it’s gonna make the AI, make these things, the first one is the link, the second one is not. Having the graphical part, all of these have to make that, people can’t apply it very well. So, then, we understand that we need the right tools. And, then, we have to have the right government experience. All of these cases are government experience that we need to govern our disease. So, this is the formula that we have to use. And, then, we’ve got to have a body to do this. So, AI, you have to be having this body. This body, the upper body. So, we have to find a body. He is a little bit of a body, and he is a little bit of a body. This is the ability, you can see, how this community can choose from zero to one, and all of our problems that we have to solve. So, this is bad, you know. We have to do this, and we have to find a solution to this. Find my, you know, this is my operation, and how is this? So, we don’t know, if I, for example, tell me, tell me which one is not, and we can use this one. This is an example of the, we can do that way. And, it can be applied in any industry, okay? You have to, so, going down here, you can see that, four point, yeah, industry, personalization is very important. What they mean by personalization? Everyone has different choices, different needs, needs, so, this is very important to work on it, in AI. All of these, the prices, the importance, all of this, all of this, all of this, I have to work on it first. I cannot work on this with the people in AI. I cannot work with anyone else. I will keep on building this in my mind, but I will work on it. So, it’s very important to concentrate where to start. Where to start, first of all, it’s very important to understand this, to understand the core philosophy, and also to have a place where to start, to start in the five important projects and then, we’ll continue. And now, I leave you with my colleague, Dr. Ibn Abdullah, who will continue this presentation, and I’ll wait at the end for any questions.

Abdullah Alshamrani: Thank you, doctor. So, hopefully, you’ve learned, the foundational AI techniques, which are not really enough to apply AI within your organization. You need the five elements that Dr. Lamia talked about, and we’ve done some analysis in the market. We went out and surveyed 650 organizations around the world who are adopting AI in general, who excel in applying the AI techniques and apply the AI practices within their organizations. And we tried to even filter out these 650 organizations to understand what are the common practices really, really make organizations and AI mature organizations. So, out of the 650 that we surveyed, only 10% ended up to be AI mature organizations. And we’ll go through a lot of the learnings and a lot of the teachings that we’ve gotten out of this survey. So, basically, what we’ve done is a practical and qualitative approach to understand what the organizations are doing in the domain of adopting AI. So, we need to understand one thing. Then AI, generative AI, ChadDBT, in particular, came out end of 22, it really made a big splash. It really moved the needle forward when it comes to general AI adoptions. Why? Because a lot of expectations, a lot of hype, and a lot of value received out of applying general AI within the organization settings in general. So this splash had some sort of fripple effect on the whole AI adoption in the organization. So basically, it did not focus only on gen AI, but it also touched every other general AI technique as has been highlighted by Dr. Lamia in the previous section. And you can understand the numbers that are being displayed in this. So we’ve done this survey almost every year for the past eight years. And gen AI was not really a technical or an AI technique that we’ve highlighted as top ones. However, during last year, it came out of the splash, and one of the impact is to move from no applications within organizations to the highest used AI technique within the organization. As you can see, it actually compared to every prominent and famous AI technique, whether it is related to machine learning, NLP, optimization techniques, and others. So it came number one within the use of organizations, and it had a ripple effect on everything else as has been noted previously. And to understand this a bit more, I’ve sliced the remaining sections of the presentation to three parts. The part where gen AI, or the part that demonstrate where gen AI has really made an impact in the overall AI adoption, then the part that talks about the challenges related to overall AI adoption, particularly gen AI in specific, and the last one is to dissect the common practices around AI adoption within the organizations. So the top three impacts that were generated from gen AI in particular was focusing on upskilling, AI upskilling in the business itself, in IT or AI savvy sort of staff and associates within the organization. So this is number one. And the second thing is pushing the needle when it comes to AI adoption to next level, right? So gen AI had a splash around AI adoption in general. So because gen AI is focused and can provide value in specific use cases, but it does not provide value in every single other case. You need to use a plethora of AI techniques similar to the ones that were described by Dr. Lamia and the top AI within the previous slide. But most importantly, and it became non-negotiable, the AI governance itself, because it deals with sensitive AI or sensitive data itself, and it has become the center of the universe when it comes to AI policies around the world. So here in Saudi, for example, we have the personal data protection law that governs, that has a lot of governance mechanism when it comes to data related to AI itself. Aside from that, we have also the AI outline or the gen AI outline or guidance from SADAIA itself to give insights on how you should use gen AI and AI in general responsibly within your organizations. And as you can see from these three items, I mean, they are intertwined. Each one of them will impact the other. So the AI adoption entails that you upskill your team. And the more AI adoption that you have within your organization, the more care that you need to do when it comes to AI governance itself. So you cannot deal with one of them in isolation from the other, because they are really intertwined and impacting each other. Sorry about the delay, but the clicker here is not really the best AI technology in the world. But basically AI has a chain reaction when it comes, or gen AI in particular has a chain reaction when it comes to overall AI adoption within the organization. You know, the number here is very interesting. Since two years ago, AI adoption has doubled, has really doubled. We’ve received, we’ve understood that AI adoption gone from 1x to 2x within the organization, applied in multiple data or multiple business units as well as multiple business processes. This tells you that AI is becoming more and more and more stream and organizations are serious about it. Okay, in 22 or 23, they’ve been piloting, but in 24, they have been scaling. And that scalability is related to the 2x that I have been talking about. And one of the things that increased the adoption of gen AI in particular was embedding gen AI capability within the general application landscape. So if you have a CRM, for example, it is not uncommon to see a gen AI sort of capability within the CRM to help the normal user to try and digest many of the processes related to a very complex CRM, let alone the data that is hosted within the CRM itself. So basically, gen AI became a forcing sort of function when it comes to AI adoption. In fact, you see it more used within embedded applications comparing to isolated or standalone chat GPT or gen AI functions. And everything in between is outside really the embedded application. So basically, if you want to really, or the key lesson that I’m trying to say here, if you want to really push the needle when it comes to gen AI in general, let alone AI adoption in specific, you need to think about adopting AI techniques within the general business applications in your organizations. And this is basically what we’ve seen. If you work in software engineering, for example, or you work on orchestrating enterprise applications, the enterprise application strategy has moved away from only being composable and only being reusable to include the embedded intelligence. And embedded intelligence is nothing but including the functionality of AI models, whether they’re gen or normal, within the enterprise application landscape itself, just to make them more powerful, more impactful, and easier to use for normal users. As I said in the beginning, you know, gen AI has really made a big splash when it comes to AI adoption in general. However, it really, you know, verified that we need to stand humble when it comes to the general AI adoption, and it is forcing us to mature, you know, to higher stages with the plethora of challenges that we’re facing in the journey itself. And this is, and you know, some of the challenges I will go through in that section. And before I go through, you know, the details of these challenges, I wanna display two, you know, very interesting data points. So you need to understand that the journey toward AI maturity is not easy. You know, it is very challenging. It is very, it continues to be complex as we stand today, and it is very costly to organizations. And you know, one of the things that we noticed from our survey this year is that AI projects, on average, never go to production. They don’t see the light at all. 52% is not an easy number. 52% is a very large number. You know, you take an AI project, you pilot it for, you know, a number of months, as we will see in the next slide, then you ended up in throwing it, why? Because you could not really realize a break-even sort of point when it comes to the cost and value of these, of running these AI models or scaling them later on in production. So 52, this means, you know, it’s like tossing a coin, right? You don’t know whether it will succeed or it will fail. And the other data point that I wanted to talk about is the length of piloting, you know, a normal AI project itself. So in the previous, you know, survey, 23, it used to be seven months. It’s gotten worse this year with Gen AI, which makes, you know, things or organizations in general more frightened to take part of Gen AI and general AI adoptions within their organizations. They need to understand that in order to succeed, you know, in their pilot, and in order to succeed in the scalable aspects when it comes to AI adoption, they need to focus on different things as we will see in the next section. So, 52 is prone to failure and 8 months just to pilot an AI project, at the end you don’t know whether it will go to production or not. revolution that came before it. You need to understand the AI technique and club it with the AI value or the use case value for the organization. Without maximizing the end result of that sort of formula, you will not be able to actually say that we are AI enabled organizations at all. As you can see here, you know, the barriers are very, you know, lack of trust when it comes to AI, lack of business alignment, lack of data, lack of confidence in technological aspects of AI, especially for those who come maybe from certain countries where cloud is not really enabled there, provided AI models and AI capabilities are better in cloud, you know, environment comparing to local environment. And definitely talent is a big thing, but most importantly estimating and demonstrating AI value is the biggest challenge for organizations and it goes hand-in-hand with the previous two data points that we described, you know, 52% fail and it takes eight months to roll out a project from pilot to production. And if we focus on gen AI in particular, you know, you will see commonality between the gen AI and common AI adoption in general, but you know, the top ones related to technical implementations and cost of running gen AI and this year we’ve seen more reliance on thin ops, for example, techniques, especially for those who are acquainted about cloud computing. I mean they need, you need thin ops capability in place just to help you, you know, navigate the costs related to AI consumption and usage and without a doubt talent became also one of the top gen AI and this is where, you know, the gen AI literacy or AI literacy programs come to resolve that sort of challenge as we will see in the next section. So as I said in the beginning, you know, we’ve surveyed 650 organizations, right, and we’ve learned many data points related to their practices when it comes to AI adoption. And we filtered out the high maturity organizations which came out to be around 9-10 percent. So out of 650, you only have 65 organizations that are mature when it comes to AI adoption in the world. And we’ve learned, you know, four main lessons when it comes to AI adoption and scaling AI adoption within the organization. But before we go through these four main lessons, I want to highlight what maturity actually means when it comes to our analysis to the data points that we collected. So basically, to establish the maturity definition, we need to understand that the common or the AI mature organizations applied AI across several business units and processes. So it’s not enough to roll out a fraud management solution or model within production. You need to focus on customer intimacy, operation, you need to focus on predictive and preventive sort of scenarios, and this is related to different business units, let alone different business processes itself. And you need to understand that maturity as well means that they have deployed more than five AI use cases. Most organizations are still in the beginning of when it comes to AI journey. They are still piloting only one use case. The mature organizations, they’ve gone beyond that and deployed already five AI use cases in production. And they’re not in the early stages of that deployment. These AI adoption models and use cases have stayed in production for at least two years in average, which should have generated a lot of value for the organizations that use them. So we, based on the analysis that we did for data, we understood that AI mature organizations focus on the bottom, as you will see in the layer of that paragraph or that diagram. So basically the bottom forms the foundation of AI mature organizations relating to the operating model that is being used to scale AI within the organization, related to AI engineering practices and pipelines that are, that should be put in place, and definitely upskilling because we’ve learned in the previous surveys talent is a major issue. So upskilling is one way to resolve that gap in the organizations as well as change management, and definitely the governance aspect which focus on trust and risk and security management in general. So the ones on the top, whether it is related to the AI use cases, AI trends, the next big thing, and the AI models that are open in flux when it comes to announcements, you know, this is something you should not be focusing on if you want to really mature your journey when it comes to AI. You need to focus on the foundational elements as we will go through in a moment. So as I said, you know, AI, you know, in the previous diagram, the ones on the top are really shiny and you need to shy away from shiny objects when it comes to AI, and really be laser focused when it comes to the foundational and fundamental components of AI that will help you to really scale and reach the five use cases, different business units, and business processes, you know, hopefully reach two years production when it comes to AI adoption. But if we if we talk about the scalable AI operating model, and I am conscious of the time, so I’ll try to speed up, you know, when it comes to the operating model, you know, scaling AI requires different AI operating model. I mean, previously central teams may have succeeded to maybe pilot AI in the organizations, but in order to really scale it, you need to think about hybrid model, where very central AI capabilities need to take place, but they work in tandem and in collaboration with other, you know, business units within the organizations in a very specific and governed sort of manner, while the budget, when it comes to AI, you need to think about that mature AI organizations, you know, distribute the AI budget across different sort of business projects instead of being concentrated on one or two projects. And this is one example of, you know, hybrid operating model. As I said, there are central, you know, team that has the central capabilities related, for example, to AI strategy, AI architecture, and, you know, some of the subject matter experts when it comes to AI domain, but you also have the edges, the business units, the business processes where many of the innovations are being adopted, and in order to adopt that, you need to upskill the team, as we will see in a moment. But there is no one-size-fits-all, so every hybrid model will differ from one organization to other, but at the same time, you need to shy away from centralizing everything in one domain and think about, you know, what makes sense when it comes to hybrid in your organization. And AI engineering, if you come from software engineering background, for example, you need to, you will definitely relate to what I’m saying, what I’m going to say now, because you will, in software engineering, you have the pipelines that helps you to, you know, develop and design specific components and rolling out in scale to production, right? Same with AI. I mean, you need to have a mechanism to help you manage AI design and deployment end-to-end within you know, in a very automated fashion in your organization. Without building these sort of fundamental components in organizations, you will not be able to scale, you know, every AI model that you adopt within the organization. So the main focus for AI engineering in general, dedicated AI team, well-matured AI organizations should double down in AI engineering capabilities and practices within the organizations, right? And you need to understand that these AI engineering practices and capabilities will help you even, you know, ready your data when it comes to AI. adoptions. Gen-AI or normal AI? Traditional AI using the different AI techniques that we talked about earlier. And again, you know, mature organization doubled down in AI engineering and you can see here the top AI engineering practices relating to testing, developing AI solutions, and deploying AI solutions. If you focus on the developing AI solutions you will relate to the composable and reusable sort of components that you need to lay down if you want to really become serious when it comes to AI adoption in your organizations. Now it is, it is even more difficult to get it done. Okay, so basically AI design patterns are very similar to software design, software engineering design patterns. You, if you don’t come from that field, they’re nothing but Lego blocks, right? Lego blocks you could connect them like this or like that to actually come up with a specific shape that you have in mind. But basically AI design patterns help you to bridge the different use cases with the right AI solution architecture that you have in, that you want to build for your organization. And I’ll have one example in the next slide. So this example relates to clopping, you know, what we call retriever research model or RAG, retrieval augmented generation, with the general, you know, gen AI large language model. So basically, retrieval augmented generation happens to serve multiple use cases within the organization, whether related to customer intimacy or operational excellence or other sort of scenario like employee productivity or others. But basically this, you know, component here could be reused across many other AI adoption techniques and scenarios within the organization and you could clop it with the right LLM model that you could employ for the specific use cases that we, you want to really scale in your organization. But basically, you know, build that as a Lego component or as a reusable sort of component will help you to adopt other use cases in your organizations. And the third sort of teaching from the survey that we’ve done is the focus on upscaling and change management. So upscaling alone, you know, focusing on the AI associated should not be your only concern. You need to think about how you could, you know, adopt AI literacy programs within the overall organizations that help, you know, every associate within the organization understand the capability of AI and how they could use AI in their context. And this is where gen AI literacy or AI literacy programs could help. But definitely change management and we will see in a moment, you know, how change management techniques and activities could help you maximize the value related to your organizations across different, you know, spectrums and domains. So as we see here from that case study, basically this, you know, case study or the lesson that I want to highlight in this case study is that you need to be systematic when it comes to upscaling your associates within the organization. I mean, you should not focus only on the pros who use and reuse and create AI models or become really, you know, strong prompt engineers, but also focus on the bigger sort of group that may not really need advanced capabilities when it comes to AI, but they need moderate sort of capability. But the general, you know, associate having online courses that could be distributed across will help you to really reach every single associate within the organization. And basically, you know, that layering sort of systematic approach when it comes to AI literacy or adopting AI in your organization is very important to reach out more people. And again, change management is very important and change management, you know, techniques will help you to maximize the business outcomes when it comes to cost-saving, risk management, customer experience, or even productivity for employees. Without the right change management applications, you will not be able to reach very high, you know, sort of impact when it comes to the different, you know, values when it comes to business outcomes. And the last thing that I want to focus on is AI governance in general. And basically, AI trust, risk, and security management is one of the frameworks that we often highlight in Gartner, and it basically focuses on the fact that governance is being applied by diverse roles. AI associates or AI savvy people will not help you to reach high AI governance. You need to think about the different dimensions and different food or different perspective that needs to be put in place by these diverse diversity of roles. And the budget authority, especially when it comes to AI privacy and security, is very important. I mean, they need to be owned by a central unit that helps you to adopt the governance mechanism that is related. And business impact, when it comes to breaching or enabling AI privacy, is very important. So again, I mean, the AI tourism and or AI framework will help you to apply the governance mechanism, utilizing different components in the AI tourism technologies, and connecting with AI systems and the organizational governance practices that you have in your organization. And the last thing, you know, I just want to highlight is that AI adoption phases of maturity. And often, we focus on what’s, you know, above the surface rather than, you know, build strong roots that will help you really mature with time and reuse these components as you go. And this is just, you know, a rub to everything that I said and everything that Dr. Lamia said, you know, the opportunity is big when it comes to AI adoption. And you need to pick the right AI models using the right formula that was described earlier, you know, and the four lessons that I’ve gone through, whether it is related to picking the right operating model, a hybrid in that case, and utilizing AI engineering and upskilling literacy and the literacy program, as well as investing in AI trust and security management in general. This is very important to really, really push the needle forward and become an AI mature organization. Thank you very much. We’ll stay around if you have any questions. Any questions? Yeah, go ahead. No, it’s fine, because the people on the web, they need to hear you, but I can’t hear you now. Go ahead. Well, basically, they focus on the next big thing. They focus on the shiny object rather than on the fundamentals. I mean, you need to really focus on the fundamentals and, you know, instill and root out, you know, the different foundational components in your organization. Without this, right, you may be successful in one AI use case. You may be successful in one AI specific business process or business unit, but you will not be able to really scale different AI models across the whole organization. So, basically, AI maturity, it relates to AI maturity. If you want to really become, you know, AI-enabled organization in different, you know, regional and different business units, you need the foundation. So, they do not focus on the foundation. Yeah, it’s fine, it’s fine, we can hear you.

Audience: How can we improve our self-confidence? Like, even for AI engineers, I have some friends who are doing some projects for me, how to use metamorphosis. So, they are basically developing AI to develop AI. So, how can we improve our self-confidence in AI?

Dr. Lamya Alomair: Very great question. Upscaling ourselves is very important, as I mentioned before. Your question is very great, that how we can upscale faster, that doesn’t happen. I am really glad that this question has come in. Actually, usually, when you look at what is happening, usually, I’m looking at what is next. So, just keep continuing what you’re doing. Yeah, I know. There is a book I was reading that says the future is faster than what you do. Really, the future is faster. So, we have to upscale ourselves in the area that we have.

Agreement Points

Importance of AI foundations and fundamentals

speakers

Dr. Lamya Alomair

Abdullah Alshamrani

arguments

History and Foundations of AI

Focusing on AI engineering practices and pipelines

summary

Both speakers emphasized the importance of understanding AI foundations and implementing fundamental practices for successful AI adoption.

Need for continuous learning and upskilling in AI

speakers

Dr. Lamya Alomair

Abdullah Alshamrani

arguments

Need for continuous upskilling in AI

Prioritizing upskilling and change management

summary

The speakers agreed on the critical need for ongoing learning and skill development in AI for both individuals and organizations.

Impact of generative AI on overall AI adoption

speakers

Dr. Lamya Alomair

Abdullah Alshamrani

arguments

Generative AI’s rapid rise to prominence in organizations

Increased focus on AI upskilling and governance

summary

Both speakers highlighted the significant impact of generative AI on accelerating overall AI adoption and increasing focus on related skills and governance.

Similar Viewpoints

Both speakers emphasized the technical foundations of AI, with Dr. Alomair focusing on cognitive systems and Alshamrani on engineering practices, highlighting the importance of understanding and implementing core AI concepts.

speakers

Dr. Lamya Alomair

Abdullah Alshamrani

arguments

Cognitive systems as the basis of AI

Focusing on AI engineering practices and pipelines

The speakers shared the view that continuous learning and adaptation are crucial in the rapidly evolving field of AI, emphasizing the need for ongoing skill development and change management.

speakers

Dr. Lamya Alomair

Abdullah Alshamrani

arguments

Importance of staying updated with AI developments

Prioritizing upskilling and change management

Unexpected Consensus

Challenges in AI adoption

speakers

Abdullah Alshamrani

Audience

arguments

High failure rate and long pilot times for AI projects

Building self-confidence in AI capabilities

explanation

While Alshamrani focused on organizational challenges in AI adoption, the audience question about self-confidence unexpectedly highlighted a personal dimension to these challenges, suggesting a broader consensus on the difficulties faced in AI implementation at both organizational and individual levels.

Overall Assessment

Summary

The main areas of agreement centered around the importance of AI foundations, continuous learning, the impact of generative AI, and the challenges in AI adoption.

Consensus level

There was a high level of consensus among the speakers on fundamental aspects of AI adoption and development. This consensus implies a shared understanding of the critical factors for successful AI implementation, which could guide future strategies and policies in AI development and adoption.

Different Viewpoints

Unexpected Differences

Overall Assessment

summary

No significant areas of disagreement were identified among the speakers.

difference_level

The level of disagreement appears to be minimal or non-existent. The speakers presented complementary information on AI adoption, challenges, and best practices without contradicting each other. This alignment in perspectives suggests a cohesive understanding of the topic at hand, which may contribute to a more unified approach to AI implementation and maturity in organizations.

Partial Agreements

Similar Viewpoints

Both speakers emphasized the technical foundations of AI, with Dr. Alomair focusing on cognitive systems and Alshamrani on engineering practices, highlighting the importance of understanding and implementing core AI concepts.

speakers

Dr. Lamya Alomair

Abdullah Alshamrani

arguments

Cognitive systems as the basis of AI

Focusing on AI engineering practices and pipelines

The speakers shared the view that continuous learning and adaptation are crucial in the rapidly evolving field of AI, emphasizing the need for ongoing skill development and change management.

speakers

Dr. Lamya Alomair

Abdullah Alshamrani

arguments

Importance of staying updated with AI developments

Prioritizing upskilling and change management

Key Takeaways

AI adoption has doubled in organizations over the past two years, with generative AI driving increased interest and implementation

Only about 10% of surveyed organizations are considered AI mature, applying AI across multiple business units and processes

Major challenges in AI adoption include lack of trust, business alignment, data quality issues, and difficulty demonstrating value

Key practices for AI maturity include implementing a hybrid operating model, focusing on AI engineering, prioritizing upskilling, and establishing robust governance

Organizations should focus on building strong foundations for AI rather than chasing the latest trends or ‘shiny objects’

Resolutions and Action Items

Organizations should implement AI literacy programs to upskill employees at all levels

Develop reusable AI components and design patterns to scale AI adoption across the organization

Establish a hybrid AI operating model with centralized capabilities working alongside business units

Invest in AI engineering practices and pipelines to manage AI development and deployment

Implement comprehensive AI governance frameworks addressing trust, risk, and security

Unresolved Issues

Specific strategies to reduce the high failure rate (52%) of AI projects

Methods to shorten the long pilot times (average 8 months) for AI initiatives

Detailed approaches for estimating and demonstrating AI value to overcome adoption barriers

Concrete steps for organizations to transition from piloting to scaling AI use cases

Suggested Compromises

Balancing centralized AI capabilities with distributed implementation across business units through a hybrid model

Focusing on both technical AI skills and broader AI literacy across the organization

Combining off-the-shelf AI models with custom solutions tailored to specific organizational needs

With the fourth industrial revolution, there is one more ability that comes with AI. It improves our cognitive thinking. So here, what I’m saying, that with AI, our cognitive ability is moving.

speaker

Dr. Lamya Alomair

reason

This comment frames AI as a transformative technology that enhances human cognitive abilities, positioning it as the next step in human progress.

impact

It set the tone for the discussion by emphasizing the profound impact of AI on human capabilities, leading to a deeper exploration of AI’s potential and challenges.

Gen AI, or the part that demonstrate where gen AI has really made an impact in the overall AI adoption, then the part that talks about the challenges related to overall AI adoption, particularly gen AI in specific, and the last one is to dissect the common practices around AI adoption within the organizations.

speaker

Abdullah Alshamrani

reason

This comment structured the discussion into key areas, providing a framework for understanding the complex landscape of AI adoption.

impact

It guided the flow of the presentation, allowing for a systematic exploration of AI’s impact, challenges, and best practices in organizational settings.

52% is not an easy number. 52% is a very large number. You know, you take an AI project, you pilot it for, you know, a number of months, as we will see in the next slide, then you ended up in throwing it, why? Because you could not really realize a break-even sort of point when it comes to the cost and value of these, of running these AI models or scaling them later on in production.

speaker

Abdullah Alshamrani

reason

This insight highlights the significant challenges in implementing AI projects successfully, challenging the notion that AI adoption is straightforward.

impact

It shifted the discussion towards a more realistic view of AI implementation, emphasizing the need for careful planning and value assessment in AI projects.

You need to focus on the foundational elements as we will go through in a moment. So as I said, you know, AI, you know, in the previous diagram, the ones on the top are really shiny and you need to shy away from shiny objects when it comes to AI, and really be laser focused when it comes to the foundational and fundamental components of AI that will help you to really scale and reach the five use cases, different business units, and business processes

speaker

Abdullah Alshamrani

reason

This comment emphasizes the importance of focusing on foundational elements rather than being distracted by trendy AI applications.

impact

It redirected the discussion towards practical considerations for successful AI implementation, encouraging a more grounded approach to AI adoption.

Overall Assessment

These key comments shaped the discussion by providing a comprehensive view of AI’s transformative potential, while also highlighting the practical challenges of implementation. The speakers moved the conversation from theoretical possibilities to concrete strategies for successful AI adoption in organizations. They emphasized the need for a structured approach, focusing on foundational elements and realistic expectations, rather than being swayed by hype. This balanced perspective encouraged a more nuanced understanding of AI’s role in business and society.

How can we improve our self-confidence in AI?

speaker

Audience member

explanation

This question addresses the psychological aspect of working with AI, which is important for AI engineers and practitioners to effectively develop and implement AI solutions.

How to upskill faster in AI?

speaker

Dr. Lamya Alomair (in response to audience question)

explanation

This is crucial for keeping pace with the rapidly evolving field of AI and ensuring professionals can adapt to new developments.

How to effectively implement AI literacy programs across an organization?

speaker

Abdullah Alshamrani

explanation

This is important for ensuring widespread understanding and adoption of AI technologies throughout an organization.

What are the best practices for developing a hybrid AI operating model?

speaker

Abdullah Alshamrani

explanation

Understanding how to balance centralized and distributed AI capabilities is crucial for scaling AI adoption across an organization.

How can organizations improve their AI engineering practices and pipelines?

speaker

Abdullah Alshamrani

explanation

This is essential for efficiently managing AI design and deployment at scale within organizations.

What are effective strategies for AI change management?

speaker

Abdullah Alshamrani

explanation

This is important for maximizing business outcomes and value realization from AI implementations.

How can organizations effectively implement AI governance frameworks?

speaker

Abdullah Alshamrani

explanation

This is crucial for managing AI trust, risk, and security across diverse roles and perspectives within an organization.

Summary

The transcript discusses the implementation and impact of NAMA, a unified digital platform for government services in Saudi Arabia. Before NAMA, each service had its own link, user experience, and database, which was challenging for users. NAMA was introduced to provide a unified access interface for all electronic services, applying international standards and best practices in government.

NAMA offers a centralized platform for various services, making it easier for users to access information and complete transactions. It incorporates AI-driven solutions to enhance service delivery, providing personalized recommendations and support. The platform has over 1.5 million registered users and offers more than 300 services across various categories.

The discussion highlights NAMA’s role in innovation and creativity, particularly in water management, agriculture, and environmental monitoring. Significant projects include drone technology for agricultural land inventory, AI for pest detection in crops, and a Smart National Water Platform for crop water requirement computation.

NAMA also aligns with several Sustainable Development Goals (SDGs), contributing to efforts in poverty reduction, food security, health, water management, sustainable cities, climate action, and environmental conservation.

The platform’s impact is reflected in local and national digital indicators, including high scores in the UN E-Government Development Index and digital experience maturity. NAMA has also received recognition through global and local awards, including the WSIS Prize in 2022 and 2023, and the Best Digital Experience Award for Beneficiary in the Government Sector in 2024.

Overall, NAMA represents a significant advancement in digital government services in Saudi Arabia, integrating AI and emerging technologies to improve user experience, decision-making, and sustainable development across various sectors.

Keypoints

Major discussion points:

– The development and implementation of NAMA, a unified digital platform for government services

– NAMA’s role in innovation and creativity across various sectors (water, agriculture, environment)

– Significant projects utilizing AI and technology, such as drone surveys and smart immunization

– NAMA’s alignment with Sustainable Development Goals (SDGs)

– Local and national digital indicators and achievements

Overall purpose:

The discussion aims to present the evolution, features, and impact of NAMA, a centralized digital platform for government services in Saudi Arabia. It highlights how NAMA has improved service delivery, incorporated innovative technologies, and contributed to various sectors and sustainable development goals.

Tone:

The tone of the discussion is informative and professional throughout. The speaker maintains a consistent, matter-of-fact approach while presenting technical information, statistics, and achievements. There’s an underlying sense of pride and enthusiasm about the platform’s capabilities and positive impact, but the tone remains formal and objective throughout the presentation.

Speakers

– Yasser Ibrahim Alissa

Area of expertise: Digital transformation, e-government services

Role/Title: Not specified, but appears to be a senior official or project leader at NAMA (National Agriculture Marketing Administration)

Additional speakers:

No additional speakers were identified in this transcript. The entire presentation was given by Yasser Ibrahim Alissa.

The Implementation and Impact of NAMA in Saudi Arabia

Yasser Ibrahim Alissa presented a comprehensive overview of NAMA, a unified digital platform for government services in Saudi Arabia. The presentation highlighted the platform’s development, features, and significant impact on various sectors and sustainable development goals.

Development and Implementation of NAMA

Before NAMA’s introduction, each government service in Saudi Arabia had its own link, user experience, and database. This fragmentation posed technical challenges and created difficulties for users navigating multiple platforms. NAMA was developed to address these issues by providing a unified access interface for all electronic services, applying international standards and best practices in government service delivery.

Key Features and Benefits:

1. Centralized platform for over 300 services across various categories

2. AI-driven solutions for enhanced service delivery

3. Mobile access with responsive design and secure transactions

4. Personalized recommendations and support

5. Over 1.5 million registered users

NAMA’s AI Capabilities and User Experience

NAMA integrates advanced AI tools to improve user experience. The platform’s UX Lab continuously analyzes user behavior and feedback to enhance the interface and functionality. An AI channel focuses on providing an enhanced beneficiary experience, offering personalized support and recommendations.

NAMA’s Role in Innovation and Creativity

The platform has played a crucial role in fostering innovation across various sectors, particularly in water management, agriculture, and environmental monitoring. NAMA integrates various data sources to provide a holistic view of operations, enabling data-driven insights for informed decision-making.

Significant Projects and Applications

1. Drone technology for agricultural land inventory: Conducts accurate field surveys of large areas at high speed, improving agricultural planning and resource allocation.

2. AI for pest detection in crops: Utilizes artificial intelligence to identify and manage agricultural pests, enhancing crop protection and yield.

3. Smart National Water Platform: Computes crop water requirements to optimize water usage in agriculture. This platform benefits farmers by providing precise irrigation recommendations based on real-time data and crop-specific needs.

4. Livestock Chain Application: Manages livestock assets efficiently, facilitating over 500,000 ownership transfer transactions. This application streamlines the livestock management process and improves traceability in the sector.

5. Smart Immunization: Aids in preventing livestock epidemics through timely vaccinations. The project uses integrated technologies to predict potential outbreaks and coordinate preventive measures across the region.

Alignment with Sustainable Development Goals (SDGs)

NAMA’s initiatives align with eight of the seventeen Sustainable Development Goals, contributing to:

1. Poverty reduction: Through improved access to services and economic opportunities

2. Food security: By enhancing agricultural productivity and livestock management

3. Health services improvement: Including veterinary health initiatives

4. Water management: Optimizing water usage in agriculture

5. Sustainable urban planning: Integrating digital solutions for urban development

6. Climate action: Collaborating with SEDAYA on climate-related projects

7. Environmental conservation: Monitoring and managing natural resources

8. Innovation and infrastructure: Developing cutting-edge digital solutions

Performance and Recognition

The platform’s impact is reflected in local and national digital indicators:

1. High scores in the UN E-Government Development Index (0.8268 out of 1)

2. Advanced digital experience maturity (Level 4 out of 5)

3. Readiness for emerging technology adoption (87%)

NAMA has received both global and local recognition for its innovative approach:

1. WSIS Prize in 2022 and 2023

2. Best Digital Experience Award for Beneficiary in the Government Sector in 2024

3. Kingdom of Fear 2022 award for Best Technical Project

Conclusion

NAMA represents a significant advancement in digital government services in Saudi Arabia. By integrating AI and emerging technologies, the platform has improved user experience, decision-making processes, and sustainable development across various sectors. Its alignment with SDGs and recognition through international awards underscore its importance in the country’s digital transformation journey.

Yasser Ibrahim Alissa’s presentation provided a comprehensive view of NAMA’s development, benefits, and achievements, demonstrating Saudi Arabia’s commitment to digital transformation and sustainable development through this innovative platform.

Yasser Ibrahim Alissa: So, our agenda will be before NAMA, after NAMA, NAMA Statistics, Innovation and Creativity and Stigy in NAMA, Local and National Digital Indicators, Local and Global Awards. So, the situation before NAMA was each service has different link and user experience. This mean in technical wise, each platform has own register, own database, own services. This will be difficult from user experience side for beneficiary. Then came the need to provide unified access interface and unified access to all electronic services and apply the best international standards and practice in government. Unified place to review data and make available to our eyes various type of data related to electronic service in real time and accurate manner. What’s mean? What’s mean that when you have unified database and unified platform, that’s mean easy to apply the AI in your platform. So, invest in smart and emerging technology, developing talent, organize operation in additional to support change management to improve the experience of beneficiary outside and within the ministry. So, after NAMA, after NAMA, the MIWA Unified A-Service Platform, what we do? Create services. NAMA offers centralized platform for various services, make it easy for user to access information and complete transaction. User friendly interface, actually we have projects related to user friendly interface. We have UX Lab. Actually we bring the beneficiary to the ministry and make some direct experience on them and apply some AI tools to see the best user experience for users. So, the AI board solution NAMA AI utilizes artificial intelligence to enhance services delivery providing personalized recommendation and support. So, if you see that before, we make it decentralized database. That’s mean easy to apply AI and accurate, of course, with accurate data and the real time access user can access up-to-date information on services, regulation, and procedure improve decision maker. Mobile access, that’s mean responsive design will be easy to the users to use the services and access the service on the go. Secure transaction, of course, the important things to protect user data to ensure safe transaction. NAMA beneficiary, we have 1,500,000 plus registered in NAMA and NAMA A-Service more than 300 services. The each category public services, agricultural services, import and export services, water source license, financial support services, licensing services, and animal services. So, what is NAMA in innovation? NAMA innovation and creativity, when you see that from water sector, we have projects in water management, AI-driven solution can optimize water source management, monitor consumption patterns and predict future water needs, leading to more sustainable use. Again, you have know the Ministry of Miwa, environment, water, and culture. When they see the agricultural sector, we support offer tool to precision agriculture include crop monitoring, best detection and yield forecasting, which can help the farmers make the data-driven decision. Again, environment sector, we have monitoring to the platform can analyze environmental data to track change, assist risk and inform policies aimed to sustainability and conversation. When NAMA site integrate systems, the platform can integrate various data source providing holistic view of operation across sectors, which facilitate better coordination and resource allocation. User-friendly, that means user experience, NAMA AI provides user experience with intuitive design and easy navigation, ensure the users can access services and information with minimal effort. Personalization, AI algorithm can tailor services to individual user needs, enhancing certification and engagement. Data-driven insight, the platform offer robots analytic capability, enabling organization to extract value insight from data, identify trends and make informed decision. Significant projects, drones technology used to inventory agricultural lands. The primary goal in this project is to conduct accurate field surveys of many areas at high speed. The platform data activities are stored in central database to process and generate intelligent reports for decision-making by higher authority. Actually, after we use the drones, we use some tools like remote sensing to analyze the data and they give us the decision-maker. So the second project, we already work on it, artificial intelligent technology, use it to detect agriculture pests. We have many services on this application. We can use audio, video and communication and text message so that the farmer gets the information completely and accurately. The second service is also intelligent response to farmer’s inquiries through conversation with brilliant guide. In addition, the farmer questions with pictures, videos and texts of the ministry on social media. This mechanism helps the farmer not contact to expert and satisfy the information he obtained through the intelligent platform. The artificial intelligence in this platform played essential role to identify the disease, some important things, to identify the disease of coffee trees by taking picture and determine the type of treatment. So we add a new channel, AI channel. AI channel focus on enhanced beneficiary experience with the ministry services by providing smart and easy digital communication channels. Actually, we add. one more services, specifically to special needs, to be more user experience for them. Second significant project, Smart National Water Platform. The primary goal for the project, the service is to compute the water requirement of crops across the kingdom, aiding the decision makers in accurately estimating agricultural water needs. It offers user-friendly services for farmers, allowing them to discern the actual water needs of their crops, monitoring consumption, and judge the flow volume of additional water required. Livestock Chain Application. The primary objective of Livestock Chain Application is to enable the owner to create and manage their assist portfolio, registering and tracking ownership, and execute the sales or transfer ownership securely and directly within platform. Actually, we have more than 500,000 transactions just for transfer ownership. Smart Immunization. Smart Immunization is the third significant project. That means that Smart Immunization is the primary goal to predict and prevent the spread of livestock epidemics across all regions in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. The innovative platform utilizes an array of integrated technologies and solutions, including geospatial mapping, artificial intelligence, a smart field management system, and business intelligence for decision makers. If you apply all these services, of course, we can apply AI models to analyze data from livestock project owners. This analysis enables the prediction of potential epidemic outbreak, allowing proactive measures to be taken when the impending epidemic is identified. The system automatically initiates visit requests that contain comprehensive immunization information and include precise location where the intervention is needed. NAMA and SDG. SDG means Sustainable Development Goals. They have 17 goals, 8 of them related to NAMA. Ending poverty by providing access to financial resources, social services, and information. The platform can help empower communities and improve the economic conditions contributing to poverty reduction. Ending hunger. The platform can support agricultural initiatives, enhance food distribution systems, and promote sustainable practices that ensure food security and nutrition for all. The goal number three, ensure healthy lives. NAMA can facilitate healthy services delivery, improve healthy care access, and promote healthy education to contribute to better health outcomes and well-being. Water and sanitation. By tracking water consumption and providing data on water management, the platform helps to ensure sustainable water use and access to clean water and sanitation services, as we see before the slide, for water management. Sustainable cities. The platform can aid urban planning and management, making cities safer, more inclusive, and resilient by using data to address urban changes and improve infrastructure. Climate action. We have projects related to climate action with the SEDAYA. NAMA can support climate action initiatives by providing data on environmental practices, promoting awareness, and facilitating policy development aimed at mitigating climate change impacts. Life below water. Through initiatives that monitor marine resources and promote sustainable practice, the platform can help conserve the ocean and ensure sustainable use of the marine environment. Life on land. Life on land. The platform can assist in managing land use, combating desertification, and promoting biodiversity through data-driven environmental programs and policies. So local and national digital indicators. All these indicators are related to DGA. When you see the United Nations Government Development Index focusing on government to deliver public services, a score of 100 indicates leading opposition in delivering digital tools for governance. The second indicator, digital experience maturity, focusing on user experience, suggests a high level of maturity in delivering digital experience for beneficiaries. Emerging technology adoption readiness helps prepare organizations in our country to adopt new technology, and a competent rating indicates a solid ability to integrate and utilize emerging technology effectively. So, our achievement in NAMA, we win the WSIS Prize 2022 and 2023 globally, and locally, we win the Best Technical Project Award in Kingdom of Fear 2022, and Best Digital Experience Award for Beneficiary in Government Sector in 2024. Thank you for listening. you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you

Agreement Points

NAMA Platform Benefits

Yasser Ibrahim Alissa

Unified access interface for electronic services

Centralized platform for various services

AI-driven solutions for enhanced service delivery

Mobile access and secure transactions

The speaker emphasizes the benefits of the NAMA platform, including unified access, centralization of services, AI integration, and improved user experience.

NAMA Innovation and AI Applications

Yasser Ibrahim Alissa

AI applications in water management and agriculture

Integration of various data sources for holistic operations view

User-friendly design and personalization

Data-driven insights for informed decision-making

The speaker highlights NAMA’s innovative use of AI in various sectors, emphasizing improved efficiency and decision-making.

Significant NAMA Projects

Yasser Ibrahim Alissa

Drone technology for agricultural land inventory

AI for detecting agricultural pests

Smart National Water Platform for crop water requirements

Livestock Chain Application for asset management

Smart Immunization for livestock epidemic prevention

The speaker presents several significant projects implemented by NAMA, showcasing technological applications in agriculture, water management, and livestock management.

NAMA’s Alignment with SDGs

Yasser Ibrahim Alissa

Contribution to poverty reduction and food security

Support for health services and water management

Aid in sustainable urban planning and climate action

Assistance in environmental conservation efforts

The speaker outlines how NAMA’s initiatives align with various Sustainable Development Goals, emphasizing its broad impact on social and environmental issues.

NAMA’s Performance and Recognition

Yasser Ibrahim Alissa

High scores in digital governance and user experience

Readiness for emerging technology adoption

International and local awards for digital innovation

The speaker highlights NAMA’s achievements in digital governance, technology adoption, and recognition through various awards.

Similar Viewpoints

Unexpected Consensus

Overall Assessment

Summary

The presentation by Yasser Ibrahim Alissa demonstrates a comprehensive overview of NAMA’s development, benefits, innovative projects, alignment with SDGs, and achievements. The speaker consistently emphasizes the platform’s role in improving digital services, implementing AI solutions, and contributing to various sectors such as agriculture, water management, and urban planning.

Consensus level

As this is a single-speaker presentation, there is no consensus to evaluate among multiple speakers. However, the speaker presents a coherent and consistent narrative about NAMA’s positive impact and achievements across various domains. The implications of this presentation suggest a strong commitment to digital transformation and sustainable development in Saudi Arabia through the NAMA platform.

Different Viewpoints

Unexpected Differences

Overall Assessment

summary

There are no discernible disagreements or conflicting viewpoints in the provided transcript.

difference_level

There is no level of disagreement to assess, as the transcript contains a single speaker presenting information about the NAMA platform. The implications for the topic at hand are that the presentation provides a unified perspective on the development, benefits, and achievements of the NAMA platform without any contrasting opinions or debates.

Partial Agreements

Similar Viewpoints

Key Takeaways

NAMA is a unified platform that centralizes various government services, improving user experience and access

The platform incorporates AI and data analytics to enhance service delivery and decision-making

NAMA has implemented several innovative projects in agriculture, water management, and livestock management

The platform aligns with multiple Sustainable Development Goals (SDGs)

NAMA has received recognition through local and international awards for digital innovation

Resolutions and Action Items

None identified

Unresolved Issues

None identified

Suggested Compromises

None identified

So, after NAMA, after NAMA, the MIWA Unified A-Service Platform, what we do? Create services. NAMA offers centralized platform for various services, make it easy for user to access information and complete transaction.

speaker

Yasser Ibrahim Alissa

reason

This comment introduces the core concept of NAMA as a unified platform, which is a significant shift from the previous decentralized approach.

impact

This comment sets the stage for the rest of the presentation, introducing the key benefits of NAMA and how it improves user experience. It leads to further discussion on specific features and improvements.

AI board solution NAMA AI utilizes artificial intelligence to enhance services delivery providing personalized recommendation and support.

speaker

Yasser Ibrahim Alissa

reason

This comment highlights the integration of AI into the NAMA platform, showcasing a significant technological advancement.

impact

It introduces the topic of AI in government services, leading to further discussion on how AI is applied in various sectors like agriculture, water management, and environmental monitoring.

Significant projects, drones technology used to inventory agricultural lands. The primary goal in this project is to conduct accurate field surveys of many areas at high speed.

speaker

Yasser Ibrahim Alissa

reason

This comment introduces a concrete example of how advanced technology is being applied in practical ways to improve agricultural management.

impact

It shifts the discussion from general concepts to specific applications, demonstrating the real-world impact of the NAMA platform and associated technologies.

NAMA and SDG. SDG means Sustainable Development Goals. They have 17 goals, 8 of them related to NAMA.

speaker

Yasser Ibrahim Alissa

reason

This comment connects the NAMA platform to broader global sustainability goals, showing its relevance beyond just local government efficiency.

impact

It expands the scope of the discussion to include how digital platforms can contribute to global sustainability efforts, touching on topics like poverty reduction, health, and environmental protection.

Overall Assessment

These key comments shaped the discussion by progressively introducing more complex and far-reaching aspects of the NAMA platform. The presentation started with the basic concept of a unified service platform, then moved to the integration of AI, followed by specific project examples, and finally connected the platform to global sustainability goals. This structure allowed for a comprehensive understanding of NAMA’s capabilities, practical applications, and broader impact, effectively demonstrating its significance in modernizing government services and contributing to sustainable development.

Summary

This discussion focused on empowering Afghan women through education and technology, despite current restrictions under Taliban rule. Participants highlighted the severe limitations on women’s rights in Afghanistan, including bans on education and work. They emphasized the critical role of internet access and digital literacy in providing opportunities for Afghan women, while noting challenges like censorship, limited infrastructure, and social norms.

Speakers stressed the importance of community engagement, including involving religious leaders and male family members, to create support for women’s empowerment. They discussed the need for culturally sensitive approaches and flexible delivery methods for educational content. The potential risks to women’s safety when providing aid were also addressed, emphasizing the principle of “do no harm.”

The discussion explored various strategies for supporting Afghan women, such as peer-to-peer networks, collective advocacy, and targeted digital literacy programs. Participants emphasized the need for systemic, structural changes and a whole-of-society approach, involving multiple stakeholders including government, civil society, and the private sector.

International support was deemed crucial, but speakers noted the complexities of working within the current political context. The APNIC Foundation shared its efforts in capacity building and community development in the region, while acknowledging the challenges of operating in Afghanistan. The discussion concluded with a call for continued attention to Afghan women’s issues and the importance of sustainable, long-term solutions.

Keypoints

Major discussion points:

– The current challenges facing Afghan women in accessing education and technology, including restrictions imposed by the Taliban regime

– Potential solutions and approaches to empower Afghan women, such as community-based programs, involving religious leaders, and providing digital literacy training

– The importance of considering cultural sensitivities and security risks when implementing programs to help Afghan women

– The role of the international community in supporting Afghan women’s rights and access to education/technology

– The need for systemic, structural changes and a whole-of-society approach to truly empower Afghan women

Overall purpose:

The goal of this discussion was to explore ways to empower Afghan women through education and technology, given the current restrictions and challenges they face. Participants aimed to share insights and propose tangible solutions to help Afghan women gain access to educational and economic opportunities.

Tone:

The overall tone was serious and concerned, but also hopeful and solution-oriented. Participants spoke passionately about the challenges facing Afghan women while also offering constructive ideas for how to help. There was a sense of urgency and importance placed on the topic. The tone became more action-oriented towards the end as participants discussed specific ways the international community could support Afghan women.

Speakers

– Neeti Biyani: Senior advisor of strategy and development with the APNIC Foundation

– Abdul Ghayoor Bawary: Moderator

– Anja Gengo: Representative from IGF Secretariat

– Amrita Choudhury: Chair of APR IGF, from civil society organization CCUI

– Zhala Sarmast: Works with chemical technology/manufacturing facility, musician, athlete with Afghanistan’s National Women’s Cycling Team

– Omar Ansari: Leading Digital Leap South Asia project with APNIC Foundation

– Lima Madomi: Research and teaching assistant at University of Geneva, remote moderator

– Sajia Yarmal: Based in Germany, originally from Afghanistan

– Sonal Zaveri: JSC advisor to the APNIC Foundation

Additional speakers:

– Barata Mea: From South Africa, works with women and girls

– Shauna Hoffman: AI expert from USA

– Mary: From Timor-Leste

– Raj Singh, CEO, APNIC Foundation, WEOG

Empowering Afghan Women Through Education and Technology: A Comprehensive Discussion

This report summarizes a discussion on empowering Afghan women through education and technology, focusing on the challenges and potential solutions in the context of current Taliban rule. The conversation involved various experts and stakeholders, including representatives from civil society organizations, international foundations, and Afghan nationals.

Current Situation and Challenges

Sajia Yarmal and Zhala Sarmast provided a stark overview of the current situation in Afghanistan, highlighting the severe restrictions on women’s rights and freedoms under Taliban rule. They emphasized the limited access to education, work, and technology for Afghan women, with Sarmast noting that women are now prohibited from attending universities and working in most sectors. Omar Ansari observed a decreasing number of women in ICT fields, illustrating the tangible impact of current policies.

Key challenges discussed included:

1. Limited access to devices and internet connectivity

2. Censorship and surveillance of online activities

3. Economic barriers to accessing technology

4. Cultural norms and male entitlement restricting women’s freedoms

5. Lack of digital literacy and skills

6. Security risks for women participating in empowerment programs

Strategies for Empowerment

The speakers proposed various strategies to empower Afghan women through education and technology:

1. Community Engagement: Zhala Sarmast and Sonal Zaveri stressed the importance of creating culturally sensitive, community-oriented programs. This approach involves engaging male family members, religious leaders, and community elders to build trust and encourage participation.

2. Safe Spaces: Sonal Zaveri emphasized the creation of safe community spaces for women to learn and access digital resources.

3. Flexible Learning Methods: Zhala Sarmast suggested providing flexible and accessible delivery methods for educational content, potentially including offline materials to overcome connectivity issues.

4. Peer Support Networks: Sonal Zaveri advocated for supporting peer-to-peer networks and collective action among Afghan women.

5. Digital Literacy Programs: Speakers discussed the need for targeted digital literacy and skill-building programs tailored to the specific needs and constraints of Afghan women.

Role of International Community and Organizations

The discussion highlighted the crucial role of international support in empowering Afghan women, while also noting the complexities of operating within the current political context:

1. Advocacy: Sajia Yarmal called for the international community to pressure the Taliban government to respect women’s rights.

2. Funding and Resources: Speakers emphasized the need for international funding and resources for education and development projects.

3. Partnerships: Omar Ansari suggested partnering with local organizations and initiatives to deliver aid effectively.

4. Systemic Approach: The discussion emphasized the need for comprehensive, systemic changes over piecemeal efforts, involving multiple stakeholders.

5. Economic Arguments: It was suggested that framing women’s empowerment in economic terms might potentially gain government buy-in, while maintaining a focus on human rights.

The APNIC Foundation’s work was highlighted, including the Digital Leap South Asia project and their efforts to support women in technology. The importance of the Internet Governance Forum (IGF) in promoting gender parity in technology discussions was also mentioned.

Challenges in Implementation and Ethical Considerations

The discussion addressed several challenges in implementing support programs for Afghan women:

1. Security Risks: Lima Madomi highlighted the potential life risks for women participating in empowerment programs, emphasizing the need to prioritize safety.

2. Cultural Sensitivity: Sonal Zaveri stressed the importance of considering cultural norms and addressing male entitlement when designing interventions.

3. Logistical Difficulties: Speakers noted the challenges in delivering aid and resources within the current political climate, including censorship and restrictions on women’s activities.

4. Balancing Approaches: The discussion revealed a tension between providing tangible resources (such as mobile phones) and focusing on education and skills development. Speakers cautioned about the potential risks of providing tangible aid without considering the full context and potential consequences.

Sonal Zaveri introduced the principle of “do no harm” as a fundamental consideration in developing solutions for Afghan women, emphasizing the need for careful, ethical approaches.

Conclusion and Future Directions

The discussion concluded with a call for continued attention to Afghan women’s issues and the importance of sustainable, long-term solutions. Key takeaways included:

1. The need for culturally sensitive, community-oriented approaches

2. The importance of international support balanced with consideration of local contexts and security risks

3. The potential of digital technologies to provide opportunities for education and connection, despite limited access

4. The necessity of long-term, systemic changes to address structural barriers to women’s empowerment

An audience member raised a question about tangible ways to help Afghan women, highlighting the desire for concrete action. The session also included a brief comment from a participant from Timor-Leste, broadening the perspective on women’s empowerment in different contexts.

Unresolved issues included finding effective ways to partner with the current Afghan government, addressing censorship and surveillance, sustainably funding and delivering technology resources, and balancing security risks with visible support initiatives.

The discussion highlighted the complexity of empowering Afghan women through education and technology, emphasizing the need for a multifaceted, collaborative approach that considers cultural sensitivities, security concerns, and long-term sustainability.

Neeti Biyani: Thank you, Abdul. And good morning from Riyadh. Thank you so much for joining us. Whether you’re here in person or whether you’re joining us virtually, I am Neeti Biani. And I am senior advisor of strategy and development with the APNIC Foundation. I’m based in New Delhi in India. It is such a privilege to be able to have some space to comment on the various intersecting issues that we’re going to be discussing today. How to empower, how to empower women, and how to empower Afghan women towards an extremely important outcome that is education. Let me start by telling you a little bit about the APNIC Foundation. We were founded in 2017, and we have technical roots. So our partner organization, which is APNIC, is the regional internet registry in the Asia-Pacific. We are mandated with slightly wider, more broad issues towards internet development, digital development, and digital transformation in 56 economies in Asia and the Pacific. We work cross-sectionally, intersectionally on a number of issues with partners and communities, especially in South Asia, Southeast Asia, East Asia, and the Pacific, in Oceania. Today’s topic sort of makes me wonder about the sort of collective impact that we need to have with a wide number of partners, from governments, to commercial entities, to civil society, to technical community, as well as independent experts, academia, to come together and address various issues with respect to the community that we’re trying to address today, that we’re concerned with today. And that is Afghan women, including Afghan girls, gender-diverse people in Afghanistan. Afghanistan. Given the geopolitical situation, given the socio-economic situation in Afghanistan today, there are very many structural issues facing Afghan girls, women, gender diverse people in the country. Right from, you know, having devices, to use of devices, to having privacy on devices, to more normative social issues that may not allow complete usage or complete agency over the use of such devices, connectivity, you know, meaningful access, and the ability to choose, the ability to have control over, you know, how women and girls connect, how they participate in the digital economy, how they learn, how they work, how they connect with each other, how they access opportunities. This is by no means a small task. It’s a very tall order. It’s a very tall order, and it is not possible for any one entity to be able to, to be able to solve on their own, or to even begin to address on their own. And which is why I would like to maybe, you know, bring forward a framework of collective impact, you know, where we can partner with one another, where we can identify the gaps, identify the capabilities that need to be built, identify how we could partner with one another, and bring into, you know, the equation, devices, connectivity, access, digital literacy, you know, even, even linguistic diversity, considering that many, many women, girls participants in this, in this conversation, are actually not consuming information or even looking for opportunities in English, or, you know, one of the more widely spoken, widely accepted languages in the world. So there are many, many issues at very many levels, which I’m sure that we’ll get into. And I think my fellow panelists today who have been living in Afghanistan or have lived experience in Afghanistan have so many more stories to tell and much, much more informed than perhaps I can ever be. So with this, I’ll perhaps pass it back. And happy to come in later.

Abdul Ghayoor Bawary: Thank you very much, Nitin. I would like to request each of our distinguished speakers to first shortly introduce themselves one by one and then we’ll be jumping to the questions. Thank you very much. So over to you, Anja.

Anja Gengo: Well, thank you very much, Keyur. And very good morning to everyone. I usually am not late for any of my meetings or sessions, but I think you’ll understand me and excuse me. And the Secretariat is kind of the central focal point or entity for the organization. And this is the very first day when everything started its implementation. It’s a result of a couple of months of work. So we had to be in multiple places this morning. But it is really coincidental that I was just in a session on, it’s called the Women’s Summit in Internet Governance, organized by my dear friend, Baratang. And we just spoke a lot about the importance of closing gender-based digital divide, which is still at an alarming pace and overall speaking on the statistics. But it is also good that we are making progress looking back in the past two decades. And we mentioned quite a lot, Afghanistan, especially women and girls in Afghanistan, the challenging situation that they are now. We spoke about the denial of the basic human rights, which is the right to education, and how important digital especially now it’s really a lifeline for girls and women there where digital represents the only opportunity to continue with education, to continue with networking, communicating with others, channeling voices back and forth and that’s why the infrastructure itself is now more than ever important to be able to support implementation of human rights especially for women and girls there. I spoke quite a lot about not long time ago, I think it was 2019 maybe, when I had a pleasure to go also to Afghanistan to work with Tamar, Gayur and with really a lot of colleagues there and on that particular note it was one of the most impressive national IGFs that I’ve been to in terms of the participation, in terms of the program structure and because of the topic I have to say in terms of the just female empowerment that you can feel there when you are working with all those people. I don’t speak just about women and girls as such and their role, I also speak about the men who were supporting their integration and it was a wonderful cooperation that we’ve seen and the most recent examples of course are disturbing and I think extremely important for the global community to address them and to do everything that’s in our capacity to ensure that there isn’t a girl or women on this planet that doesn’t have basic human rights which is the right to education to start firstly and I hope that there is enough will first of all and capacity to do that and to react to make a change in that sense. We spoke quite a lot at this session and I think my colleagues are moving actually to this session to come about wonderful good practices that exist across the world in terms of supporting education for women and girls that we are not relying anymore on that conservative conservative thought and structure that the education needs to be given to us by, for example, the governmental structure, but that the multi-stakeholder model really plays a role in terms of setting up cooperation and implementation for supporting various forms of education. So colleagues from ISOC, for example, spoke quite a lot about wonderful capacity development initiatives that they are carrying out for educating women and girls in coding, in robotics, in overall ICT understanding. We from the IGF Secretariat also see capacity development as one of our mandated objectives and within our capacity we do everything we can to ensure that we have community engaged in internet governance with a special focus on women and girls, understanding that there are parts of the world where they are marginalized, where they are vulnerable, they don’t have the same opportunities as men would have. And in that sense, one of the greatest partners to us are the 175 national regional and youth IGFs. Those are wonderful examples of capacity development, just grassroots community efforts at a multi-stakeholder level directed to engaging communities, to fostering that partnerships, that sense of ownership of these types of processes, and most important, resulting in stronger policies that are supporting the use of our digital technologies. And then final point that I would like to say, at the level of the IGF we are also through our structures trying everything that we can to support gender parity being represented there. So I’ll give you one example, the heart of the IGF, especially in terms of the program, in terms of the agenda, so everything that the next four or five days we will be discussing is the result of the multi-stakeholder advisory group, the MAG. For years our goal has been to achieve gender parity across the 40 membership of the MAG. That has been a challenge and I am very proud to say that in the past couple of last couple of years, we have managed to achieve gender parity, meaning that we have 20 female, 20 male members represented on the MAG, which really makes a difference in terms of having the MAG that is really just more also considerate about the topics that we are discussing today. On this agenda in the next, so today in the next four days, there will be topics related to gender equality. All of them will result in concrete, what we call the Riyadh IGF messages. And I hope that will be our voice, collective voice to channel to the global community to make a change and to ensure that women and girls are better represented in our societies, because they are really one of the key pillars of the sustainable development. And that means just better life quality for all of us. So with that, I will have to conclude here. I have a third session which I have to run and I really apologize, but I will certainly catch up with the recording and with all of you, you will be here the next five days. I look forward to meeting you all.

Abdul Ghayoor Bawary: Thank you very much. Very much, Anya. That’s really appreciated. Quite lots of engagements you had. So you gave us time to fit in the session. So I’ll be jumping to the next speakers that introduce themselves and talk about their background. If the message from my colleague, that one or two of our speakers haven’t been joining. So, but we are waiting for them, Dr. Maria and Dr. Farzana. Okay, so I welcome Amrita. Yes, please. Amrita is one of our distinguished speakers. Thank you very much for joining. So before I go to Amrita, I will be giving her a time to. settle here. I’ll go to one of our youngest speakers, Ms. Jala Sahr-Mast, the floor is yours. Thank you, Khairul Jan. Can everybody hear me? Yeah. I want to ask my technical colleagues to make my colleague, the co-host, please. Okay. I know the people on Zoom can hear me. Can people in Riyadh hear me? Can I get a thumbs up or something, if you can hear me? She’s not audible. Okay. I request the technical team to let Jala speak, please. Hello? No? Okay. I’m just checking. Am I audible yet? Okay. I don’t think so. Please accept my apologies. Yeah. Can you please start? Hello? Hello? Do you hear me? You’re still not audible, unfortunately. Okay. Hello? Hello? Hello? Sound check. No? No. So, Leva, can you please speak, if we can hear you? No, we still can’t hear, so could you please speak so we can make sure you’re audible? I think it’s a problem or technical problem. Yeah. Yeah. Until the technical team solves this, let’s jump to the next speaker. So we’ll be jumping to the next speaker. I really welcome you, Amrita. I will give you a few minutes to introduce yourself and let the audience and everyone know you more. Everyone knows you. You’re a role model for a lot of people. So over to you.

Amrita Choudhury: Hi, everyone. My name is Amrita, and sorry for being late. I was in another session. Just to give you a brief, I am from India. I work for a civil society organization called CCUI. I’m currently also chairing the APR IGF, that’s the Asia Pacific Regional Internet Governance Forum. I am very closely associated with the Afghan IGF and the Afghan School of Internet Governance since their formation. I also go to Kabul once. They had invited me. Obviously, that was a different time, and it’s a different time today. They have seen how the young people, especially women from Afghanistan, have been participating in various discussions related to ICT, as well as in the Internet Governance Forum from that time. Obviously, as one of them, there were a few more who actually participated in a lot of ICT discussions. Okay. So I think we can hear. At this point of time, so in case you want to have them speak first, that could also be possible. I’m here to actually learn, and this is something which… I can’t hear you. I can’t hear you at this point of time. Okay, so I think this is an important topic, especially for people who want inclusion, who are championing for equal rights for everyone, to education, to participate, technology, obviously. So, I think this is important, but I will give it back to Gaurav. I think we’re trying to test the audience at this point. Thank you very much, Amrita. So, is the problem solved?

Abdul Ghayoor Bawary: All our remote speakers and audience are available? Can you hear me? Let’s test with you. Can you please talk so we can make sure you’re audible? Hi, Soyul. Can you hear me? Unfortunately, I don’t have her voice. Can you hear me? Yeah, over the technical thing. Okay. Okay. Okay. Our apologies for the technical issues. We’ll be resuming our session in a few minutes until the technical team… Yeah, they won’t hear that. So we will continue with our on-site speakers. And as well as with the audience, to our audience members, we are really thrilled to have you with us today. Your participation is not only welcomed, but it is essential to the success of the current session discussion. Please feel free to jump in, engage, ask questions, and share your perspectives throughout the session. So our program is designed in a way to encourage dialogue and exchange of ideas. So I encourage everyone to take this opportunity to connect, learn, and grow together. Okay. So I have a question. Any of our speakers can maybe talk as per their experience, especially like Amrita has been to Afghanistan. She has been working with Afghan colleagues in different ways, and I’m sure Amrita has similar experience. Anyone from our audience can also jump in. So can anybody like, as per your experience, if you are connected with Afghans in Afghanistan, talk like what is the current situation regarding the Afghan women’s access to technology and education, given the recent restrictions, such as bans on education and limited Internet access? So I would… Like, anyway, you’re both welcome. Anyone of you can talk about it. So are you going first, Amrita? Thank you. OK. Over to you, Amrita.

Amrita Choudhury: Sadly, I think this is something which all of us would agree upon, is that the current situation is not at all great. The women cannot get access to education to their own. They don’t have their rights to even internet or ICT. It is not a very healthy situation, considering women play a critical role even in families to nurture their next generation. So it’s not only for their own personal benefit. Even children who study also need it. If they have educated mothers, well-educated, et cetera, it helps to nurture the family and bring them up or get about rights that are abused. If you will not allow a woman to study, will not allow a woman to even access technology, I think it’s a sad state of affairs. It will not even help any country, for that matter. Because 40%, I guess, would be women in that population. So 40% of people would be left with technology. Because the internet has become a thing of which every country is equal. So we continue speaking. So I think if you want also for the country to end it, you have to allow every gender to have equal access to education, ICT, and opportunities. It’s not a speaker here. Okay. How is it. So I think that is. So, I guess. There was some questions you had. What can be done. I think if we could have the online speakers participating, they know more than us. We are observers, but they have face to face. We are trying to do a lot of things. It would be really good if we could actually have those voices heard. Unfortunately, we are not being as inclusive as possible. In this session. So, yes, I guess that’s from me at this point of time, we did want to add some. I guess, I guess. Okay, I think I’ll pass it on to Omar to speak. Because we are not getting the people.

Omar Ansari: Thank you very much before I jump to the next speaker. I would like to invite. One of the speakers. If you could please. Okay. Okay. Can you please. So, we want to make sure you’re. Okay. Okay. Unfortunately, we are not able to hear you at all. It’s, it’s very, like, it’s breaking a lot. And it’s very low. So. So, I’m going to pass it on to the next speaker. Okay. Unfortunately, we are not able to hear you at all. It’s, it’s very, like, it’s breaking a lot. And it’s very low. So, we, we are unfortunately not able to hear you. So, I’m going to pass it on to the next speaker. Okay. But I’m happy that you can hear us. You’re very clear. I want to make sure with this with Sajjan and Zsola, are you experiencing the same as Leva said?

Neeti Biyani: Exactly the same. It’s difficult to hear you guys still.

Abdul Ghayoor Bawary: I would request my technical team to resolve this issue as well. So then we will be jumping to you guys. So welcome. Happy to have you here. So let’s give this opportunity to first introduce yourself and talk a little bit more about yourself and the question I raised about the current situation of women, despite the current restrictions on education and access to the Internet. Over to you. Hello. So I hope everybody can hear me.

Sonal Zaveri: Yes. So my name is Sonal Saveri and I’m the JSC advisor to the APNIC Foundation that Miti just talked about and the work that they do. So APNIC Foundation is deeply committed to its work on both gender equality and social inclusion. And so with my background in gender and evaluation, perhaps there is something that I could shed some light on what is happening in Afghanistan. I’ve had the opportunity to work on gender with a number of multilaterals in Afghanistan in the past. And perhaps one of the parallels that we could take for the situation that’s happening today was perhaps during the time of COVID when there was a moratorium on physical access to education. And what were some of the challenges that were faced and some of the solutions that we were able to find. And from the work that I’ve done in that country, what is critical to address is, of course, the connectivity. to making sure that the last mile is available, and of course, to have the devices and the digital learning in the languages that is suitable for education. But beyond that, it’s also very important to work on the social norms. So without addressing the social norms, what we found out at the uptake for the goals and for the curriculum that was provided was minimal. But there are ways in which to get around that. And some of those ways are to have a strategy to address the social norms within the families, within the communities, with religious leaders, with community elders. And once you’re able to do that, there is a lot of bike for girls and women to access education. And I think we also have to understand what is access. So access is not merely infrastructure. Access is also able to use the device. And often you will know that in many of these communities, and I think as in Afghanistan, in many of the situations in other countries where you have vulnerable populations, the problem is that a device is often a family device. It’s not necessarily a woman’s device. It’s not necessarily exclusively for women and girls for their education. So having understood that, that access to a device is very much connected to what are the cultural norms in that community, the sort of device that’s available. If you do have a device, it may not be a smartphone. And so you’re not able to take the complete benefit of whatever digital tools and curriculum that you’ve developed. So what we found is that community spaces, often some people call them safe spaces. So spaces where women and girls are able. to go and to learn is critically important. Otherwise, because of the social norms, the gender norms, their responsibilities for the care or domestic chores takes them away from a concerted effort to spend time on their education. So I think whether when we look at Afghanistan today in the development and conflict emergency nexus, we have lessons learned from many other countries around the world on how to use these digital tools so that we are able to promote education and ensure that all girls will benefit from that. So I’m happy to take questions if you would like to know more about the safe spaces and community engagement, but I’m going to stop here and see if we can get our online participants to talk a little bit more about the situation right now. Thank you. Thank you very much. You have pointed very tangible things, issues and problems currently like Afghan women are facing. So I will come again on this thing that you have mentioned. So before that, I’d like to make sure if our remote speakers are audible and also they can

Abdul Ghayoor Bawary: hear us well. Over to Leymah first, because Leymah is my co-moderator and she’ll be doing the remote moderation. I’ll give the floor to Leymah to introduce herself and then give the floor to the next speaker. Over to you, Leymah.

Lima Madomi: Hi, Elayour, and hello, everyone. I don’t know if you can hear me, but unfortunately, we are struggling to hear you. But as long as you can hear me, I’ll go ahead and start speaking. But OK, thank you. So thank you so much. for joining us and my name is Lima Madhumi. I am a research and teaching assistant at the University of Geneva. My background is in technology. I have been working in technology for past almost 10 years. I was a fellow of the Internet Governance Forum. In addition to that, I have worked for a very long time in Afghanistan with Omar and with everyone there in different technological sections, especially for women in technology. So yeah, I’m really happy to be here and will be helping as a co-moderator. Please let me know if there is anything and I will be informing you about any messages in chat or anything out here. So Jala and Sajjah is here with us. Unfortunately Farzana will not be able to join us. I am hoping that Maria Bibi will be joining us soon. So back to you, Ghayr. Thank you very much, Lima. Happy to have you.

Abdul Ghayoor Bawary: Okay, over to you, Farzana, to introduce yourself and talk a little bit about yourself. Over to you. Do you hear me? Very well. Okay. Hi, everyone. It’s nice to virtually meet you.

Zhala Sarmast: My name is Jala Sarmas. I’m based in Singapore. I currently work with a chemical technology slash manufacturing facility in Singapore and in Canada. My background is very heavily in the hard sciences, specifically chemistry and also media. I studied at Yale-NUS College where I earned my Bachelor of Science with honors. And aside from that, I am a musician. I’m an athlete with the Afghanistan’s National Women’s Cycling Team that was also nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize in 2016. And then aside from all of these things, I work with a big group of Afghan students every year, especially those that try to get access to educational opportunities outside of Afghanistan. So that is something that is very close to my heart because it’s an experience that I’ve gone through of applying to universities to try to get a good education. And so that’s something that’s very important to me. And then with my work with media, we constantly try to work on digital learning campaigns and digital sort of educational platforms for Afghan women, Afghan youth, Afghan people in general in Afghanistan. So I’d be diving a little bit more deeper into that with the questions. Anyhow, that’s it in a nutshell. It’s very nice to meet all of you. Thank you very much. Very inspiring. Hope to see you soon. Thank you, Lema John. Thank you, Lema John. Good morning, everyone.

Sajia Yarmal: My name is Sajjah Yarmal and I’m based in Germany. I’m originally from Afghanistan. Unfortunately, a country where nowadays under the Taliban regime, being a woman feels like a crime. It’s true. Women in my country face endless restriction. We cannot speak freely, make our own decisions or even choose where to go or what to do. But here I stand grateful for the opportunity, at least in this moment and in this space to rise my voice and shed light on these critical issues facing Afghan women, especially their access to digital resources and opportunities for education in these difficult times. For me, actually, it doesn’t matter if you know my personal background. What matters is that we are gathered here to talk about the women of my country, women who are suffering every day and their voices are silent and their dreams are stolen. For these women, the only glamour of their lives is their freedom. hope is that we as a woman from all around the world stand united, discuss their struggles, propose solutions and also follow up with the international community to ensure that even not a single woman is silent, excluded or denied for her most basic rights. Thank you. So this is my introduction for today’s session. Thank you very much, Sajjah. Happy to have you in the panel.

Abdul Ghayoor Bawary: So my first question was regarding the current situation of Afghan women in access to technology and education, given the recent restrictions. So I would like to hear your views on this, because you’re Afghan and you have been probably experienced or connected with these friends there. So Sajjah, what’s your findings on the current situation of Afghan women in access to technology and education, considering the current restrictions on women?

Sajia Yarmal: Thank you for the question. Let me give you all some context in this regard. So since the Taliban took power in Afghanistan in August 2021, Afghanistan has been in a deep crisis, especially for women and girls. The Taliban’s policies have pushed women out of public life. Girls are banned from schools, women cannot go to university, they cannot work, even they cannot go to public parks are bad. So these restrictions are isolated somehow women and destroy the progress we worked so hard to achieve. The restrictions keep every day increasing, leaving women without hope or opportunities. For nearly three years now, Afghan women have been faced to stay at home like prisoners in the their own houses. In this difficult situation, access to digital tools and the internet has become a lifeline for many Afghan women. The internet can open doors to education, jobs and even a way to raise their voices. But political restrictions and Taliban policies have made these access even harder. This is increasing inequality and silencing women even more. I think one major problem is the Taliban’s control over the internet. In many places there is no internet at all and in the areas where there is internet, the Taliban censor content, making it impossible to access educational programs, news or global platforms. They also mentor online activities, so women fear being tracked or somehow punished for breaking the Taliban’s strict rules. As a result, women are not restricted physically, but also they are digitally trapped. I think the second problem or challenge is Afghanistan’s economic collapse. Smartphones, computers, the internet services are too expensive for most families, especially for women who depend on family members for financial support. This makes access even harder. When families have limited resources, they cannot prioritise, they cannot, they cannot. Sorry Ghajan, you hear me? Yes, yes, we can hear you. I’m hearing you guys very hard, but still I will continue. my presentation or my speech. Yeah, please continue. Honey out so as I mentioned when the families have a limited resources, they often prioritized by boys and men over women and girls for Internet access and devices. Uhm, the last but not least, now let’s focus on the biggest barriers which is education. We all know education is the key to using technology but Afghan girls are. A bandit from schools and universities. This means millions of Afghan women and girls cannot learn the basic skills needed to use technology and without schools and or higher education to lose the chance to connect with the digital wars and access the opportunities it offers. I think the impact of these restriction is devastating. Online education could give Afghan women hope and chance to learn. Even with the education bans platform that teaching coding languages or professional skills could help women improve their lives. But without access to the Internet or basic digital digital skills, women are left out and the cycle of poverty and dependence continues. Uhm? I have seen how powerful digital tools can be. I have seen women using the Internet to learn, connect with the world and fight for their rights. But I have also seen how the lack of Internet or access leaves women feeling hopeless and isolated. For Afghan woman, the digital world is not just a tool. I think it’s a lifeline. It gives women a chance to regain control of their lives in the society that has taken away their independence rights. The restrictions are not just rules. They they are somehow. tools of control to take away Afghan women’s dignity and future. So as a last point, what can we do for this situation? The situation is hard, of course, but it’s not impossible. There are steps that government organizations and individuals can take to help Afghan women access digital tools, like international organizations could or should work to provide safe and affordable internet for Afghan women or for Afghan people. Tools like VPN and encrypted communication can also help bypass censorship and surveillance. Also, online education programs designed for Afghan women can help them to build even with slow internet and international communities also. I think they must continue pursuing the Taliban to respect women’s rights, including their rights to education and the right to have access on internet or technology. And there is also a possibility that tech companies and governments can stand against censorship and mentoring the regulation, which nowadays we are experiencing in Afghanistan. So I think these are some points from my view which can help Afghan women to have access to the internet and to have opportunity to develop and work for their skills. I think if we focus on problems and propose solutions and follow up them, I think it will bring an opportunity for every one of us to solve the problem, especially women in Afghanistan are facing in Afghanistan. So these were my points, Gayoudran, if you could hear me and, or if you’re able to hear me, I will be here for other questions as well. But for this question, that was my point.

Abdul Ghayoor Bawary: Thank you. Thank you very much. You have pointed very critically issues regarding the current situation of Afghan women in terms of access to education and technology. So considering your points, I will jump to Joella, like how do such barriers, such as like internet blockages, the unreliable electricity, the gender-based inequalities impact Afghan women’s ability to connect to digital resources and participate in a scalable and good educational opportunities?

Neeti Biyani: Thank you, Gayoudran. I think me responding to this question is a little bit pointing out to the obvious because we’re constantly on a daily basis, we see how internet blockages, the fear of posting something online or accessing,

Zhala Sarmast: I’m not gonna really say accessing quality education because I think the blockages is, there are blockages more than there were three years ago, but I think it is still possible to access educational content in Afghanistan and we would need an IT or tech expert to shed some light on how, if that is the case, content can still be accessed. But I think it’s important to remember that even before the Taliban takeover, we had significant challenges when it came to access to digital devices and access to internet. And in the session the previous day for our guests that were not there, we looked at some statistics that were quite dramatic when we were looking at access to digital devices and the internet amongst male and female and sort of users across Afghanistan. So even though the number of users getting. access to internet and digital devices has been increasing over time. It is women’s access to digital devices and it has remained very, very drastic. If I remember this correctly, in the rural areas of Afghanistan, access of women to digital tech devices was 2% only and for the male it was somewhere near to I think 55% which shows like a significant difference. And of course this has become even more severe after the Taliban takeover in Afghanistan. Now we have, if we don’t have internet blockages, there’s a very strong fear of resisting some of the policies that are in place such as the closure of schools and educational institutions. But not to mention that that is still resisted through many different kinds of responses, whether it’s art, whether it’s different sort of initiatives through media outlets, whatever. But I think that’s a separate question so I’m just going to focus on the impact of it for the moment. I think unreliable electricity is one issue that we’ve constantly struggled with in Afghanistan even as I was growing up. I think that frequent limited internet or like power blockages across Afghanistan, they limit Afghan people and specifically Afghan women’s access to online platforms that can offer of course education and skill training or career development. And then aside from that one thing that has always stood out to me working with students every year is gender-based inequalities. So I’m going to provide a more of a personal kind of response to this just so that we look at tangible examples of what I mean when I say gender-based inequalities. I think for me working with students there has always been more kind of focus on the boys and the men getting access to quality education and those opportunities than women. So I think if a family can afford the digital devices they would prefer it to provide that for the sons more than the daughters. not generalized, but that has been the case from my experience to a very major extent. And then the same when it comes to working, for instance, when I work on applications for colleges with different students, our Afghan sons, I think it’s relatively easier for them to try to get access to those education where women would have to juggle in a lot of like house chores and school and like all the other things that they have. So there are lots of things I think that can fall into that umbrella of gender-based inequalities, but I think you kind of get my point. So I’ll wrap it up here. I’ll look forward to the next question. Thank you very much, Ella, for sharing your insights.

Abdul Ghayoor Bawary: So over to you, Amrita. I have a question here, like how can target digital literacy and a scale building programs be designed to empower Afghan women while considering the cultural and logistical challenges they face that we have heard from Sajid Jahan and from Jola Jahan. So what’s your point of view? How can this issue has been tackled?

Amrita Choudhury: I think designing of the programs have to be such that it is in the local language. That forms of the models which they’re using is much more like, so that it can also work in a job, possibility of having download options. And I think what’s on the bench is very good. Certain things that this is not. Sorry, the audio is not on. is not too good. I think trying to get the community by is going to be beneficial. It is not going to harm their natural interest, religious interest, or political interest for that matter. And have the courses designed in such a way that they are not used to the other language. Thank you. So, Oliver, you said you have many good examples. Could you please share some examples of successful initiatives or programs that have empowered Afghan women through technology or providing access to education, health care, or economic opportunity? So, before I give the mic to you, I would like to remind the very dear audience that you are most welcome to raise your hands if you have any questions. But if you have any ideas or opinions to share with us, you are most welcome to raise your hand and we will be giving the opportunity for you as well. So, consider yourself as a key pillar of this discussion. Thank you very much. I hope everyone can hear me. It’s good? Great. So, what I wanted to share, I think I’d like to reiterate that gender rights are human rights and that has to be of what we believe. about more successful programs, we have to understand. Now, better, I’ll put it up like this, and please raise your hand if you can’t hear me at any point. I’m trying to get my train of thought back. What I wanted to say that whenever we talk about gender, we cannot forget two ideas that are behind gender. One of them, as we mentioned, it is deeply ingrained. And so male entitlement means that men and boys have more opportunities and better access. So, what would, okay, for a moment, sit over there, shall I sit there? May I speak again? Is this clear? Okay. So, what I want, no. Okay. All right. So, I’m moving. Let me know when you can hear me the best. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I’m happy to stand and talk. Is this great? Fantastic. I’ll talk here. So what I wanted to say is that we have to understand that gender is about gender relations. And unless we acknowledge that there is something called male entitlement, we are not going to go far. Second, we have to understand that there are systems and structures, institutional structures of family and community that are, in a sense, skewed against acknowledging opportunities for women and girls. So unless we address both of them, it’s going to be very difficult to have gender equality or gender access to education. And we heard examples, real life examples, of how boys could access, but girls could not. And the whole problem of domestic responsibilities and care, which hinder girls and women, even when they have access to devices, even when they have the digital tools, they will not be able to make full use of them because of these problems. Their time is divided. But what I wanted to talk about, a very important aspect, is mobility. There is so much restriction on the mobility of women, where they go, what they do. And that is one of the opportunities of having internet and the digital access in order to be able to go beyond it. Now, as you mentioned, one of the problems is to have the connectivity. And in order for women to manage the connectivity, to have the space and the time to spend on themselves, and to have that education, we have found that having community spaces, community engagement, and safe spaces for girls to come to provides the best opportunity for them to learn. What does that mean? The community buy-in. of religious leaders, of elders, of men, in the community, in the family, is absolutely essential. Having got that, having got that trust and confidence, you are able to provide the space for women and girls to come to these spaces to learn. And you know, the change that happens is quite spectacular in the sense that girls and women understand that there is a whole world outside, their little homes and their little communities that they are working in, and that they can learn and achieve a great deal. Many of them, because of what they’ve learned, have been able to help their families economically as well. Now these opportunities are then appreciated, but we need to understand that we have to place some foundational blocks within this social norm space, the gender equal space, in order for digital access and internet connectivity. It cannot happen without it, and that’s what I wanted to stress. There’s one more thing I want to say before I give up the mic, is that, you know, there are many ways of intervening in this. So we talk about the micro spaces, so the community spaces. We talk a little bit about the mezzo, so talking about, you know, hopefully getting some sort of a buy-in from the government or other systems and institutions, religious institutions, very, very important to do so. But what about the global community? I think we have a tremendous responsibility for forums such as this, others, to advocate for women’s rights to education, for Afghan women and what they’re facing too. Is the voice loud enough? Are we doing enough? And it’s not just women having to, you know, talk about it, and I’m really happy to see that we have men and women in this room advocating for Afghan women’s rights, but we need to have a much louder voice in the international forums that we go to and who do have a cloud. in order to do that.

Abdul Ghayoor Bawary: Thank you. Thank you very much, Sonal. Well, thank you for sharing your experience on this kind of solution, so building the community-based spaces for women. I’d like to, yes, sure, sure, sure. You can’t hear? Or you have a? Perfect, perfect. So we have a question from one of our audience to one of our remote speaker, right? Over to you. I forgot the lady from Afghanistan’s name, but my question is directed to her.

Audience: My name is Barata Mea from South Africa, and I work with women and girls, and after you gave your speech, I thought of one question I wanted to find out. So once women are empowered and you’ve done what you’ve done, what’s next for a woman in Afghanistan? Are they able to start a business? Are they able to get a job? What does that empowerment means? What it means to have a woman’s voice besides the security issues? From a family point of view, does it change the scenario for them internally in their families? Do they get the respect or what? Can I ask who the question is addressed to? Is it me or is it a person speaking? Turn to Jala, or whoever is willing to answer. Wait, was that directed to me?

Abdul Ghayoor Bawary: You can give the space to both of you. Yeah, let’s give the space to you first, Jala. You can share your experience. Oh, I’m sorry. I thought the question was kind of addressed to me. Anyhow. Okay. Okay. Okay, Saidiya. So the question refers to Saidiya.

Sajia Yarmal: Yeah, Saidiya, go ahead. Thank you, Leymah John, and thanks for asking the questions. I think this is a good point. Let me explain this from my own experience. I’m about 30 years old and growing up in Afghanistan. So it means before the Taliban took power in Afghanistan, the women had the opportunity to grow up in Afghanistan in a peaceful environment with lots of opportunities, which we worked for that, as I mentioned in my speech before. We went to school, we went to university, we got a job, and we start even our own businesses. So these were the opportunities which we had in the previous or ex-government in the past 20-30 years. Beside that, I think we should look at the rights of women, as same as the rights of human rights. I mean, if you’re talking about women and the rights which they have, and it doesn’t matter if it’s in Afghanistan, or if it’s in another countries or society, so we have to respect these rights. It doesn’t matter if they really achieve something big, the progress is important. For me as a young woman in Afghanistan, which had experience to work there, to get education there, that was an opportunity for me to work for myself, for my family, and for my society. We had the opportunities to get involved in many activities in Afghanistan, national and international communities which we had in Afghanistan, and also the platforms which we experienced them in Afghanistan. So we not only brought these opportunities to Afghanistan and used these opportunities as well. And not only me, most of the population of Afghanistan is a young generation, so not only men, not only women, also men benefit from these opportunities which we had in Afghanistan. So I think Jalajan could also add her point of view in this regard, but I think that was an opportunity for all women in Afghanistan, and if we ignore those opportunities, I think also in the future we cannot really work on Afghan women and the opportunities which we could bring in Afghanistan. Jalajan, it’s over to you.

Lima Madomi: Thank you, Sajjadjan, and thanks for the question. To be honest, I find the question a little bit interesting. I don’t exactly know what you mean when you say, so when women are empowered, what’s next? I think for the past 50 to 70 years in Afghanistan, our focus has been to get women empowered, to give women education, to give women financial independence, to give women literacy. So I think once you empower women, then women are treated as an equal human being in the society, which I think is the ultimate goal. That is why we strive for education, like I said, economic inclusion, political inclusion, social inclusion, etc. So I’m, again, not sure exactly what you mean by that when you say, so when women are empowered, or what’s next? But I think when women are empowered, then they make academic contributions, then they make economic contributions, they make political contributions, they have financial independence, which is a big deal in the world nowadays because it actually stops women from getting access to so many things because they’re not financially independent. I hope that my response is precise enough to address the question, but if it’s still not clear, I’d be happy to respond in more detail.

Amrita Choudhury: I’ll try to answer it in a different way. India also has a very patriarchal system. Of course, it’s not as extreme as it is in Afghanistan. But there are some experiences. And I’ll just give you some analogies. I have a friend of mine. She did her chartered accountancy. She came from a business family where women used to not study after their class 10, which is 16 years. And then she got into a job. There was a lot of opposition in her family. She was the first in her house to do so. But when they saw her doing economically well, earning money in her own terms, and getting respect in the society, all her other family members, the children in the extended family, the girls, got a chance to study, to get into jobs, to choose their own kind of careers, and even decide when they want to get married. Do remember, in India, we still have a lot of arranged marriages where women have to marry within a particular age. So people see with education, with employability, those things change. And when money starts coming into families, the equations also change many times. That’s hard facts, which has been seen. Similarly, many of the women, it’s not necessary for them to even go for a job or even go to something. But they will be able to teach the kids at home what is right, what is wrong, what is needed as in a progressive society. I’m not saying wearing Western clothes, but having an open mind. Education brings that. That’s why we talk about education, why reading is important. An illiterate mother may not be able to push the children to study all that much. But if you get an interest towards it, you would be helping that family also to uplift. If you can work, you should have a right what you want. what someone else, that’s a fundamental thing. But I think it helps to uplift the family also. For example, for medical health, many times in remote places or many places where women cannot even go out of the house, if you have some basic knowledge, you will not get into a myth of medical sciences. For example, many times they don’t want to go to doctors. They want to go to quacks. But if you have education, you will know what it means to even go to a doctor. So these may be small things, but they help even a family, not only the women. And I think Neeti wants to add something.

Neeti Biyani: Thanks, Amrita. I think the point that we’re trying to advocate here, I want to flip it over its head for one minute and maybe ask the question, all of us are trying to talk about empowering Afghan women. Can we pause and ask, who and what can Afghan women and girls empower in turn? Yes. So I think the question that we need to ask is, who or what can Afghan women empower? There are so many socioeconomic, cultural outcomes that Afghan women, the resilient women and girls that they are in this society, in this region of the world, the sort of economic outcomes they can help achieve, the sort of taxes that they can pay if they have the financial opportunities and the financial ability, culturally as well, to move around in the economy. The socioeconomic. outcomes that they can that they can help unlock the sort of future generations that they can bring up that will in turn then contribute to society. So I think we need to flip this narrative a little bit on its head and ask women empower only and only if they just allow the space to be who they want to be to speak how they want to speak to do exactly what they want to do. I think everyone stands to gain from that right. Absolutely everyone, the government, men, boys, women themselves society as a whole. Organizations which are helping to do that also should be encouraged for example today. Many organizations even internationally who want to do something within the country is not allowed, cannot, you know, fund those kind of projects, etc. These are happening on which can help the country. So I think these kind of should be allowed to work or even network operators group or even I don’t know if APNIC Foundation can actually put in money in Afghanistan to help in many of those social uplifting programs, etc. I think the international community and perhaps community at large could look at those things that what are the tools which are needed for empowerment, different types of empowerment. One is rights, one is civic rights, etc. Human rights, etc. But in terms of uplifting digital technologies, making life easier through technology even communicating. I think those are important things which we also need to think of. You have any question or you want to clarify something? Okay. I think what can Afghanistan women do to empower the world and other women for me is how we should be looking at it and not purely because we will learn something. I think it’s to open the world for the girls who are being empowered and not knowing what’s outside for them, especially the internet world. Because obviously I know there’s lots of programs, I read a lot about Afghanistan, that helps with coding. There’s a woman who worked with us who was teaching women how to code. And what those girls were offering on the job market, the skills were meticulous. I learned so many things from just listening to what they were talking about. And I’m going to give another example. The women in Gaza, they are offering a mentorship program to some of my girls in South Africa. They are in a very difficult situation, but they still have time when they do get that limited access to internet to contribute and teach coding to other girls. But for them, it’s just to know what’s the outside world. It’s how do you contribute? Because the main thing here, we can go anywhere we want in the world, unless we address what she talked about, which is male entitlement. Nobody is empowered. As much as we want to say we are empowered as women, our question is to address what she’s talking about, which is male entitlement. Any woman who is empowered has to face a male entitlement. But if women from all over the world come together, especially in an online space, and empower each other, it’s going to give us more power and more voice to break these women’s rights that are taken away from women.

Abdul Ghayoor Bawary: Thank you very much. We have another one of our audience here. Okay, over to you. Can you hand over a mic to her? Burhan, can you help me to pass the mic, please? You’re on. Can you hear me? Excellent.

Audience: My name is Shauna Hoffman, and I’m from the USA, and I’m an AI expert. I have been for a little over 25 years. The question that I have, Saf, thank you for being brave. Thank you for being here today, all of you. The women empowerment, I love what you just said about that. I would love to make that more tangible. How can those of us outside of Afghanistan help empower the local women? What is it that you need? I know there’s rules, there’s specific boundaries, we would say, for the local women. But what can we do? You’d mentioned cell phones. Can we collect cell phones, let’s say, from the United States and ship them over? Could we provide some internet access? Is it more funds to get the internet access? What can we do? Then also, we’re actually going on a tour in Afghanistan in October. One of the tour groups mentioned there are 300 businesses ran by women that we are going to be seeing during that tour. I’d love to understand a little bit more about that and the women’s rights. Question number 1 is, what tangibly can we do for you? If I bring cell phones over with me, can we pass them out? Is that helpful? But then the second step is, what are women’s rights locally for those who are running businesses and trying to continue on with what they had prior to three years ago?

Abdul Ghayoor Bawary: Thank you very much. Is the question open to any speaker who can tackle this or specifically?

Amrita Choudhury: Okay. Amrita has some comments on this. I am audible. Yeah. So, India government has a scheme wherein if a girl in certain states, if a girl in her plus 12, does above a particular mark, she gets a laptop. They got a laptop. But then the laptop was given to their brothers. So that also happens. So you may be giving the cell phone. Who’s going to recharge it? Who will have access to it? So those things are also some things you have to think of. Where will they recharge if there is no electricity? So those things also should be thought. It’s just not giving it over, but how do you continue it? I’m not saying it’s not a bad idea, but you will have to look at the entire chain of events. And that actually brings up a very good point.

Abdul Ghayoor Bawary: I know in Kenya, when we purchased cell phones for those who are local, we also provided them the cell phone, the solar service. So what would be, for those who are in Afghanistan or have been recently, what would be something that you could say, here’s something you really can do that’s tangible that would actually help us? Jolajan, do you want to tackle this question?

Neeti Biyani: Yes, definitely. I’m sorry, Jolajan. No, go ahead, Libajan. I can answer you. Yeah, sure.

Lima Madomi: Yeah, I’m so sorry. I just wanted to point out one very important thing. I’m so sorry for breaking in like this. It’s about when we talk about empowerment and when we talk about the tangible help to Afghanistan, there is one very important thing that we are actually, I think, forgetting, and that’s the political situation of Afghanistan. If we are providing all these help, it could be a potential life risk for many women that are living out there. So when we are doing these things, we should also consider those things. And we should also think about how we could do some of these potential support that we are providing or the empowerment that we are doing in a sense that it does not threaten their life. I think one of the most important things will be that instead of providing them with some of these helps, it will be good that if we could provide them with some educational opportunities. If there are, for example, schools or universities, or if there are some mentorship and some of these programs that could help them to be empowered and to help themselves, that could be something more valuable. Because some of these other things, of course, they are enormously valuable, but they could also be a threat to their life. They could also be… So in certain situations, they are working like head and they are not like a lot of the government and political, no one is aware that they are working. So when we are helping them in these things, we are actually bringing them up to the front. And that could be a potential risk for their lives and for their families’ lives. So I think it’s more about how we could empower them in terms of education and in terms of giving them some skills and opportunities that they could help themselves. That could be more valuable. That’s my opinion. Thank you.

Abdul Ghayoor Bawary: Thank you very much. I have to say thank you for bringing that up. That’s an extremely good point, because we wouldn’t want to have anything negative. Thank you. Yeah, thank you very much. Over to you, Zsala.

Zhala Sarmast: Thank you, Limogen, so much for sharing that. I think those are all great points and great that we have an AI expert in the room with us. Yeah, I think I find that working with initiatives on the ground has been the most helpful. So there are initiatives on the ground that work within different areas and landscapes in Afghanistan. And yes, it’s dangerous. Yes, it’s extremely risky. But to be able to make a little bit of progress, we’ve constantly, growing up, had to break rules. in Afghanistan. So that’s a given, unfortunately. And another, I think, very tangible thing that I think can make a lot of impact is not just working with women, actually, working with male of the families and just religious scholars. So you’ll have to work with people that are of value, that are respected, that are listened to across Afghanistan. So for us, whether it’s working on different digital literacy campaign or whether it’s working with students on their college application forms, et cetera, et cetera, it’s not just working with the group of students themselves, but it’s kind of like at the same time working with their decision makers of the families or their brothers and fathers, et cetera. So I think that’s just one thing that has been kind of critical to me in my work and need to be considered. So yeah, I think lots of awareness, keeping in mind that Afghanistan is in the midst of a humanitarian crisis. So there are lots of other priorities now that a lot of people are focusing on. So if those are kind of addressed, then it will open doors and give the people space to think about some of the other things that are needed, such as education and access to financial kind of opportunities, et cetera. Yeah, very much, Jala. You’ll find it very good.

Abdul Ghayoor Bawary: So as per your experience on the ground, to combine a few questions or the views raised by the audience and also the thing raised by Niti, like what and who can support the Afghan women based in Afghanistan? And now also one of our audience said like from Nigeria or from any African country. So like the women in Gaza, despite the challenges they have, they’re providing mentorship to the African women. But considering the current situation in Afghanistan, which like women are totally banned to go, I mean, for work or for education or to be in a male-dominant society, so how the Afghan women there leverage the Internet and digital resources to overcome these challenges, to build meaningful opportunities for themselves and for their communities? So this question could be answered by Joelle as well, because she recently pointed a few points relevant, and as well as Sunal, you gave some examples. So how impactful those solutions are or were to empower women to have access to education, despite the current situation we are experiencing right now? So after this question, I would like to remind the APNIC Foundation colleagues that one of the points raised by Amrita, that how can APNIC Foundation put money into the Afghan community to empower? So I think you already do these two digital leaps. I would like to have your view on this later, after Sunal shares her insights on this, and after Sunal, we’ll go to

Zhala Sarmast: Joelle. Over to you. I think I’m going to get… Okay, I’m going to get up just to make sure that everybody can hear me, and we don’t have a break. And I think I really like the question that you raised, what can you do that’s tangible? Often the solutions are quite simple, and they depend upon people, and what people can do for each other. So before I say that, I’d say that one of the goals that we must… remember when we are talking about women in very fragile situations is that we cannot do any harm. So I think the principle of do no harm must be the first principle that we follow when we are thinking about any sort of solutions for women in education, for economic empowerment and so on. So having said that, I think we’ve talked about getting buy-in from the community, from the decision-makers, from men who are in power, but I also think we should not forget that women too have power. And how do we do that? So in this case it’s not just the power of one, because that’s often difficult. You may become a target, but what you can do is have peer-to-peer. That’s possible. Can you set up systems so that girls and women can support each other? So having peer-to-peer strategies in your programs, in your solutions, is I think absolutely important. The other area is the collective. When there is a voice of many women that comes together, not one person is targeted, but collectively, collectively, they can advocate for what they want. So if you have 300 women entrepreneurs, that is a force to reckon with. How can you create a peer-to-peer support? How can you create a collective for them? I’ve done some evaluations for ESCAP in the region, and that’s one of the lessons that we have learned. How do we support women, and how can women support each other? And I think that is something we should not forget. Thank you.

Sajia Yarmal: Jayla-jan, over to you. Thank you, Khair-jan. Yeah, I agree that designing targeted digital literacy programs across Afghanistan, it requires a a lot of different layers of considerations to deliver something impactful. But I think to address the challenge, again, it is very broad, but I think programs must be culturally sensitive and community-oriented that would allow for the engaging of stakeholders. This can include families and religious leaders and community leaders, because this will build a lot of trust and encourage participation. I think in most of the work that I’ve done in Afghanistan through media outlets, whether it’s been with tech platforms or it’s been with UN agencies, one thing that we’ve constantly tried to integrate is the inclusion of religious leaders and community leaders because they’re listened to and they can actually make a tangible impact. So kind of like inclusion of those stakeholders, I think to me is an important strategy that can make quite a big impact. Again, I think the inclusion of male allies, like I said before, such as the brothers and fathers and husbands, it’s also very, very crucial to encourage their support because they can actually really make an impact in kind of paving the way and opening the way for their daughters and wives and sisters to get access to a lot of opportunities. So I think aside from that, given the logistical limitations, it’s of course another concern, programs should focus on the flexible and accessible delivery methods. What, how we’re trying to, I’m sorry, I’m trying to like bring in real life examples of how we’re trying to tackle with these challenges because I think that they might be helpful. So how we’re trying to do this is not just delivering whether it’s animated content or whatever educational kind of content online, but also using brochures, for instance, or banners across the countryside and in the rural areas where people don’t necessarily have access to digital devices or internet or. or electricity that much. So this, but taking into consideration that I think logistical limitations is of course another big issue. Security is of course the biggest consideration, but we have to keep in mind that a lot of people in Afghanistan right now, they’re putting their lives at risk, but they are working with underground schools. They are working with initiatives inside their houses. So if they can take that much risk to allow other girls to get access to educational opportunities, we can take our part in contributing to that, whether it’s books, whether it’s however kind of content that can be helpful to them. So I think, yeah, there are different kinds of things that we can take into consideration, keeping in mind the logistical, the cultural, and other issues to be able to make tangible impact. But I think it’s quite broad, so I can’t fit in everything into one response. Yeah, thank you very much, Sajidjan. You mentioned about the censorship, right? And then also access of women to the educational material.

Abdul Ghayoor Bawary: And now Joella pointed out about the involving of the religious scholars, and as well as providing content, kind of brochures or books or flyers, whatsoever, to Afghan women in order to support them to have access to education. So, like you said about the censorship, it’s not just, when we say censorship, it doesn’t mean only about the internet. So in the offline world, of course, in fact, it could ban anyone, especially the women in Afghanistan, to have access to those tangible assets, including the brochure, the books. So do you think it will be, I mean, impactful or that it works to empower women to have access to education, and as well as have access to the content, which supports their access to education?

Sajia Yarmal: shared was very powerful, but let’s do not forget the current situation in Afghanistan, because when we are proposing the solutions, we should think about the situation, how can we provide these solutions, and how can we implement this solution which we are proposing, or which we are talking about, even with international communities. Because if there is a solution for Afghan women regarding empowering women in education, etc., we should keep in mind that these activities will be affected by the Taliban’s government, the groups which have the power right now in Afghanistan, because without the allowance from these groups, we cannot provide these solutions for Afghan women living in Afghanistan. We can do something online, when we ensure that they have access to the internet, they have access to the computer, to the laptops, and they have the opportunities to use these online opportunities, but when we are not sure that they have these opportunities, we cannot also be sure about the result of the solution which we are providing them, or the opportunity which we are giving to Afghan women. You mentioned the censorship and the special censorship in Afghanistan during this situation in Afghanistan. That’s true. The censorship is quite large in Afghanistan right now. They are trying to censor the contents, not only the contents, but also the news agencies and the reporters, which they are working currently in Afghanistan, even in this hard situation. So these restrictions make the situation even harder for the people of Afghanistan, especially women in Afghanistan. And if we do not focus making the current group or government in Afghanistan responsible to answer for all the restrictions or all the rights which they are denying as a human rights or as a woman rights in Afghanistan or for women in Afghanistan, it won’t work and it won’t be as impactful as we are talking about or as we are expecting from the international community. So my point is to let’s focus and let’s put pressure on the Taliban or on the group which they are under power right now in Afghanistan, and let’s make them responsible to accept women really as part of the society, to accept and to give them opportunity to grow up. Women in Afghanistan do not need support of anyone else when they have the opportunity or when the atmosphere is ready for them to grow up, when there is opportunity and when there is a good atmosphere to grow up so they can do it by themselves. Of course, the international community can help for funding for some awareness project or development project, but still the women are able in Afghanistan or capable to work by themselves and to achieve their goals, whatever they have. The international community can only make the Taliban responsible for their acts, for denying the rights of women, for denying the human rights in Afghanistan. Thank you, Ercan. Sajjad, I would like to jump to Niti on the global or international community perspective. I’m not touching on the political side, but in terms of technical capabilities, the mandate of the international community to empower women to have access to education, like Aynia mentioned. So specifically for the Afghan women, what is your point of view? How can the international community support Afghan women to have access to education and as well as access to the technology and internet? So what’s your point of view being outside of Afghanistan and working with international

Abdul Ghayoor Bawary: organizations, specifically like the APNIC Foundation? Before I said, like Amrita, the APNIC Foundation’s role in supporting the education in Afghanistan and you’re currently running the Digital Late South Asia project. So we would like to hear your insights and views on this. Thank you. Thank you so much.

Sonal Zaveri: So as the APNIC Foundation, of course, it’s wonderful that we’re being able to see as many, you know, community oriented, as many sort of initiatives across the board, whether it’s with women and girls, whether it’s with participants and, you know, increasing representation in the technical community, etc. But I believe if you’re talking about… Afghan women and girls need to have. Piecemeal efforts, of course, are not going to be enough. We need systemic, structural changes, and we need to have a whole-of-society approach to that. For different players to come in, offer what they can, what they’re good at, what their expertise is, I think we’ll need to work in lockstep. We’ll need to work with one another to be able to understand what capabilities can be contributed, how these pieces fit in. To my colleague who mentioned, would it be helpful to bring in devices? Sure. But then what about the normative attitudes and beliefs that would actually prevent the use of such devices? I don’t think that infrastructure on its own would mean anything until and unless we’re also structurally then working alongside government. As much as we may not want to, but we do need to work with government to make sure that women are allowed to be participants in the economy. Because to my previous point as well, I think that benefits everyone. That not just benefits women and girls and gender diverse people, but it also benefits men, boys, government, society, et cetera. Sorry, we need to be advocating for equal participation in society, in the economy. Because I feel like the human rights argument, even though we believe in it, even though we want to advocate in favor of human rights, gender rights, et cetera. But I feel like practically, as is the case with my country, we seem to have lost the plot there. We seem to have lost that. We have. I mean, we have lost that plot there. If governments need to be partnered with. if we want to partner with governments, the narrative and the belief system have to be grounded in human rights. Absolutely. But we also need to be sure that we’re offering governments, companies, private sector players, technical community, civil society, what they need. The government wants to see a thriving economy. Sure. So let’s invite women in, unlock their economic potential, see how they can participate in the economy. And, you know, go from there. We perhaps need to sort of ground this and understand this from a gap. If we want to partner with different stakeholders, is it that we can play to their narrative without losing ours? So basically, what we want, I’m sure, I’m sure that that’s not going to be a simple, you know, endeavor. That’s not going to be a simple, it’s quite challenging, right, to work with the government that we have in Afghanistan at the moment. But if we’re looking at systemic structural changes that go beyond, you know, individual efforts or community efforts, not that I’m discounting those at all. We need to be, we need to understand how we can get stakeholders to really, you know, buy into this agenda. Because the first question every stakeholder asks is what’s in it for me? You know, why is it that I should support this vision? So controversial thought, but I’ll leave it at that.

Abdul Ghayoor Bawary: Yeah, thank you very much. Great people, great thoughts. Umar, do you want to add something as you’re leading the project of this digital leap and about your work in Afghanistan? Burhan, can you help me pass this mic, please? Thank you. Very much. Can you hear me? well. So I’ll introduce myself. I’m Omar Ansari, leading a project called Digital Leap South

Omar Ansari: Asia with the APNIC Foundation in Brisbane. The project aims to develop the capacity of the network engineers to help them learn new skills. With that, we do a lot of community building, bringing people together so they can share experiences and learn from each other. We support the local national IGFs, the network operator groups, and other similar gatherings and platforms. So Digital Leap South Asia, when we started the first cohort in 2023, we had nine women from Afghanistan who were network engineers. Here in 2024, we have only four women from Afghanistan. So this means the number is decreasing. The first year, we had more women working in network engineering, for example. They were trained in ICT in the past, but today, since the university has closed, women cannot go to school beyond grade six. It means that they’re gradually reducing in number. I’m the father of four girls, and it was very hard for me to see my son not being able to go to school in Afghanistan. So I had to move out, and I was forced to move out. One of my girls, age nine, was running a YouTube channel. It was called The Workshop, where you’re making robots and little moving devices. She just got admitted at a TAFE course on robotics. and she was very excited about the certification program that she will be doing in January. Afghan women has, in Afghan, men and women both, in general, they have a lot of talent. They lived in a society, you know, that was affected by war for decades, but they have learned how to be resilient. And the resilience that was shown by the Afghan Internet community in the past couple of years, you know, from falling down to raising up again, it was quite a journey. Lima is one of our participants from last year. She’s a DLSA, Digital Leap South Asian alumna, and she’s moderating this session. And she’s been leading many other efforts, like School on Internet Governance of Afghanistan. So if they’re provided with an opportunity, they can excel. They can not only contribute to the local socioeconomic development and be active in their own societies and have good lives and contribute to their families, but they can also be participants of the global development processes. So that is… But definitely, it’s not something that Afghans would be able to do it alone. As suggested by the panel, we need international friends and allies so that we can do it together. It’s an issue for all of us to address, I think. APNIC Foundation has some really good plans for the future of the region, the APNIC region. We cover 56 economies across Asia-Pacific. And the APNIC, which is a region… but then there is an APNIC Foundation.

Speaker: So our CEO is here and he’s very excited about this session and we have four more sessions coming up. So I’ll probably pass. Mar, this is audible. First, I’d just like to acknowledge all the speakers we had. You know, we talked about getting people here. Some of them couldn’t make it here due to some of these logistics issues we’ve had. So to your point earlier, something I just want to point out, you know, the world had a bit of moving on to something else. The problems in Afghanistan have an, it’s probably getting worse in some ways. It’s a credit to my team that they’ve been able to pull off what they’ve done in Afghanistan and parts of South Asia over the last couple of years. A simple thing as even sending money, it’s not just these other structural issues we’re talking about, but the international financial system doesn’t even allow us to send money to Afghanistan. My colleagues, the few that we’ve managed to get to Saudi Arabia for this event, the trials and tribulations my team went, done, those of us who lived in advanced economy, we have it easy. But just even getting money to get on a plane, it’s not that easy for some of our colleagues in some parts of the world. So there, I think, needs to be, you know, one, we should not forget that when there is conflict and issues that arise in certain countries, and then there will sort of next great conflict, you know, what happens to those that we’ve forgotten. So one of the reasons we wanted to host this session here was to ensure that, you know, we don’t forget that there’s still. is an issue in Afghanistan that women are still suffering. The three women on the screen you see there that couldn’t make it to Riyadh, they are doing, even though they’re not long. And I’ve got my colleagues here from, you know, Gayoor is here from Afghanistan, Omar, of course, who’s been a solid supporter, and in fact, he runs the program at the APNIC Foundation. So yes, help is needed. Thanks, you are able to support us. Please, we’d love to see how we could work and do much, much more. But of course, we have to do it taking into account and there are certain issues that we can’t just parachute in and do stuff and leave. That doesn’t quite work now that it’s at scale. So I see the lady is holding up the sign, which means I should shut up. So Gayoor, maybe I’ll hand back to you. We still have a lot of work to do in South Asia, in Afghanistan, but some other economies as well. We have our new strategy, and just in formulation at the moment. So in the coming months, let’s talk about what we’re doing and perhaps come partner in the difference we make. And one thing I like to say, we are more about action, not words. So what we do is around long narratives and speeches. So I’ll stop there. Thank you. Yeah, thank you. Thank you very much.

Abdul Ghayoor Bawary: A big round of applause to all our speakers, audience, the panelists, the remote moderators, speakers, everyone. Thank you very much. It was very pleasure to having you all and I really appreciate you have dedicated your precious time to attend the session and share your views and insights. It was really good to have you all. I think we are done with our time. So thank you very much and thanks to the- Foundation for organizing this beautiful session. At the end, I would request for a group photo. And thank you. Bye. I think we have someone. She has something to say. I will pass the mic. Hello, everyone. Sorry. I’m Mary from Timor-Leste. And in this room, the discussion is about the women in Afghanistan. But please allow me to also speak about women in Timor-Leste who face some similar challenges to Afghan women. Women in Afghanistan face some challenges similar to those in Timor-Leste. But our situation is different, as we are a democratic country, where men and women have equal rights. However, women in Timor-Leste still face challenges in accessing education, technology, and job opportunities, especially in rural areas. The switch program, which has been running for three years in Timor-Leste, has greatly supported women like me in ICT. I kindly request to the APNI Foundation to continue this program in Timor-Leste, as it has made a significant difference in our lives. I also ask the APNI Foundation to help women in Timor-Leste further by implementing more programs like switch. Thank you. turn cameras on. We have you in the background in a group photo. Thank you.

Agreement Points

Severe restrictions on women’s rights and freedoms in Afghanistan

Sajia Yarmal

Zhala Sarmast

Omar Ansari

Severe restrictions on women’s rights and freedoms under Taliban rule

Limited access to devices, internet, and digital skills for women

Decreasing number of women in ICT fields

The speakers agree that Afghan women face extreme limitations on their basic rights, including access to education, work, and technology under Taliban rule.

Need for community engagement and cultural sensitivity

Zhala Sarmast

Sonal Zaveri

Designing culturally sensitive and community-oriented programs

Engaging male family members and religious leaders

Need to consider cultural norms and male entitlement

The speakers emphasize the importance of creating programs that are respectful of local culture, involve the community, and address cultural norms and male entitlement.

Importance of international support and collaboration

Omar Ansari

Neeti Biyani

Speaker

Partnering with local organizations and initiatives

Providing funding and resources for education and development projects

Maintaining focus on Afghanistan despite other global conflicts

The speakers agree on the need for international support and collaboration with local organizations to address the challenges faced by Afghan women.

Similar Viewpoints

Both speakers advocate for creating accessible and safe spaces for women to learn, whether through physical community spaces or flexible delivery methods for educational content.

Sonal Zaveri

Zhala Sarmast

Creating safe community spaces for women to learn

Providing flexible and accessible delivery methods for educational content

Both speakers highlight the security risks and surveillance challenges faced by Afghan women when accessing online resources or participating in empowerment programs.

Sajia Yarmal

Lima Madomi

Censorship and surveillance of online activities

Security risks for women participating in programs

Unexpected Consensus

Balancing human rights advocacy with economic arguments

Neeti Biyani

Speaker

Balancing human rights advocacy with economic arguments for women’s empowerment

Addressing structural barriers in international financial systems

There was an unexpected consensus on the need to combine human rights advocacy with economic arguments to promote women’s empowerment and address structural barriers. This approach suggests a pragmatic strategy to engage various stakeholders, including governments and financial institutions.

Overall Assessment

Summary

The main areas of agreement include the severity of restrictions on Afghan women’s rights, the need for culturally sensitive and community-oriented approaches, and the importance of international support and collaboration.

Consensus level

There is a moderate to high level of consensus among the speakers on the key challenges faced by Afghan women and the general strategies needed to address them. This consensus suggests a shared understanding of the complex situation and the multifaceted approach required to empower Afghan women through education and technology. However, there are some variations in the specific solutions proposed, reflecting the complexity of the issue and the need for diverse strategies.

Different Viewpoints

Approach to engaging with the Taliban government

Sajia Yarmal

Neeti Biyani

The international community can only make the Taliban responsible for their acts, for denying the rights of women, for denying the human rights in Afghanistan.

The government wants to see a thriving economy. Sure. So let’s invite women in, unlock their economic potential, see how they can participate in the economy.

Sajia Yarmal advocates for pressuring the Taliban government to respect women’s rights, while Neeti Biyani suggests using economic arguments to encourage the government to allow women’s participation in the economy.

Focus of international support

Lima Madomi

Neeti Biyani

If we are providing all these help, it could be a potential life risk for many women that are living out there.

Piecemeal efforts, of course, are not going to be enough. We need systemic, structural changes, and we need to have a whole-of-society approach to that.

Lima Madomi emphasizes the need to consider security risks when providing support, while Neeti Biyani argues for comprehensive, systemic approaches over isolated efforts.

Unexpected Differences

Providing tangible resources vs. focusing on education

Audience member

Lima Madomi

Can we collect cell phones, let’s say, from the United States and ship them over?

I think it’s more about how we could empower them in terms of education and in terms of giving them some skills and opportunities that they could help themselves. That could be more valuable.

The audience member’s suggestion of providing tangible resources like cell phones was unexpectedly countered by Lima Madomi, who emphasized the importance of education and skills development over physical resources. This highlights the complexity of providing aid in challenging environments.

Overall Assessment

summary

The main areas of disagreement revolved around the approach to engaging with the Taliban government, the focus and methods of international support, and the balance between providing tangible resources and educational opportunities.

difference_level

The level of disagreement among speakers was moderate. While there was general consensus on the need to support Afghan women’s access to education and technology, speakers differed on the specific strategies and priorities. These differences reflect the complex nature of the situation in Afghanistan and the challenges in implementing effective support programs. The implications of these disagreements suggest that a multifaceted approach, considering various perspectives and potential risks, may be necessary to address the issues faced by Afghan women effectively.

Partial Agreements

Both speakers agree on the importance of community involvement, but Zhala Sarmast focuses on engaging stakeholders in program design, while Sonal Zaveri emphasizes creating safe physical spaces for women to learn.

Zhala Sarmast

Sonal Zaveri

Programs must be culturally sensitive and community-oriented that would allow for the engaging of stakeholders. This can include families and religious leaders and community leaders, because this will build a lot of trust and encourage participation.

Community spaces, often some people call them safe spaces. So spaces where women and girls are able to go and to learn is critically important.

Similar Viewpoints

Both speakers advocate for creating accessible and safe spaces for women to learn, whether through physical community spaces or flexible delivery methods for educational content.

Sonal Zaveri

Zhala Sarmast

Creating safe community spaces for women to learn

Providing flexible and accessible delivery methods for educational content

Both speakers highlight the security risks and surveillance challenges faced by Afghan women when accessing online resources or participating in empowerment programs.

Sajia Yarmal

Lima Madomi

Censorship and surveillance of online activities

Security risks for women participating in programs

Key Takeaways

Afghan women face severe restrictions on education and technology access under Taliban rule

Empowering Afghan women requires culturally sensitive, community-oriented approaches

International support is crucial but must consider security risks and local contexts

Long-term, systemic changes are needed to address structural barriers to women’s empowerment

Digital technologies can provide opportunities for education and connection, but access remains limited

Resolutions and Action Items

Design programs that engage male family members and religious leaders to build community support

Create safe community spaces for women to learn and access digital resources

Develop flexible, accessible delivery methods for educational content (e.g. offline materials)

Support peer-to-peer networks and collective action among Afghan women

Advocate for women’s rights and pressure Taliban government through international channels

Unresolved Issues

How to effectively partner with the current Afghan government to implement women’s empowerment programs

Specific ways to address censorship and surveillance of online activities

Methods to sustainably fund and deliver technology resources to Afghan women

Balancing security risks with the need for visible support and empowerment initiatives

Addressing deeply ingrained cultural norms and male entitlement in Afghan society

Suggested Compromises

Frame women’s empowerment in economic terms to gain government buy-in, while maintaining human rights focus

Work through local organizations and initiatives to deliver aid, rather than direct international involvement

Focus on basic education and skills first, before advancing to more complex technological training

Engage with community leaders to find culturally acceptable ways for women to access education and technology

Given the geopolitical situation, given the socio-economic situation in Afghanistan today, there are very many structural issues facing Afghan girls, women, gender diverse people in the country. Right from, you know, having devices, to use of devices, to having privacy on devices, to more normative social issues that may not allow complete usage or complete agency over the use of such devices, connectivity, you know, meaningful access, and the ability to choose, the ability to have control over, you know, how women and girls connect, how they participate in the digital economy, how they learn, how they work, how they connect with each other, how they access opportunities.

speaker

Neeti Biyani

reason

This comment provides a comprehensive overview of the multifaceted challenges facing Afghan women in accessing technology and education, highlighting both technical and social barriers.

impact

It set the tone for the discussion by outlining the complexity of the issue and the need for a holistic approach, leading to further exploration of specific challenges and potential solutions.

We cannot do any harm. So I think the principle of do no harm must be the first principle that we follow when we are thinking about any sort of solutions for women in education, for economic empowerment and so on.

speaker

Sonal Zaveri

reason

This comment introduces an important ethical consideration in developing solutions for Afghan women, emphasizing the need to carefully consider potential negative consequences.

impact

It shifted the discussion towards more nuanced and cautious approaches to intervention, leading to conversations about culturally sensitive and community-oriented programs.

If we are providing all these help, it could be a potential life risk for many women that are living out there. So when we are doing these things, we should also consider those things. And we should also think about how we could do some of these potential support that we are providing or the empowerment that we are doing in a sense that it does not threaten their life.

speaker

Lima Madomi

reason

This comment highlights the critical safety concerns for Afghan women engaging in educational or empowerment activities, adding a layer of complexity to proposed solutions.

impact

It led to a more cautious discussion about intervention strategies, emphasizing the need for discreet and secure methods of support.

We need systemic, structural changes, and we need to have a whole-of-society approach to that. For different players to come in, offer what they can, what they’re good at, what their expertise is, I think we’ll need to work in lockstep. We’ll need to work with one another to be able to understand what capabilities can be contributed, how these pieces fit in.

speaker

Sonal Zaveri

reason

This comment emphasizes the need for a coordinated, multi-stakeholder approach to addressing the complex challenges facing Afghan women.

impact

It broadened the discussion from individual interventions to systemic changes, encouraging consideration of how different actors can collaborate effectively.

The first year, we had more women working in network engineering, for example. They were trained in ICT in the past, but today, since the university has closed, women cannot go to school beyond grade six. It means that they’re gradually reducing in number.

speaker

Omar Ansari

reason

This comment provides concrete evidence of the declining opportunities for Afghan women in technology fields, illustrating the real-world impact of current policies.

impact

It grounded the discussion in tangible outcomes, highlighting the urgency of the situation and the need for immediate action.

Overall Assessment

These key comments shaped the discussion by highlighting the complexity of the challenges facing Afghan women in accessing education and technology. They moved the conversation from general observations to specific considerations of safety, cultural sensitivity, and the need for systemic, collaborative approaches. The discussion evolved to emphasize the importance of careful, ethical interventions that prioritize the safety and agency of Afghan women while acknowledging the urgent need for action in the face of declining opportunities.

How can targeted digital literacy and skill-building programs be designed to empower Afghan women while considering the cultural and logistical challenges they face?

speaker

Abdul Ghayoor Bawary

explanation

This question addresses the need for tailored solutions that take into account the specific constraints and cultural context in Afghanistan.

What tangible actions can people outside of Afghanistan take to help empower local women?

speaker

Shauna Hoffman (audience member)

explanation

This explores practical ways for the international community to support Afghan women, considering the current restrictions and challenges.

How can Afghan women leverage the Internet and digital resources to overcome challenges and build meaningful opportunities for themselves and their communities, given the current restrictions?

speaker

Abdul Ghayoor Bawary

explanation

This question seeks to understand how technology can be used as a tool for empowerment despite the limitations imposed by the current regime.

How can the international community support Afghan women’s access to education and technology without putting them at risk?

speaker

Lima Madomi

explanation

This addresses the need for safe and effective ways to provide support, considering the potential dangers faced by women who receive such assistance.

How can we engage male family members, religious leaders, and community leaders to support women’s education and empowerment?

speaker

Zhala Sarmast

explanation

This explores strategies for gaining crucial support from influential figures in Afghan society to facilitate women’s access to opportunities.

What role can peer-to-peer support and collective action play in empowering Afghan women?

speaker

Sonal Zaveri

explanation

This investigates how women can support each other and create a stronger collective voice for change.

How can we address the issue of male entitlement and change societal norms to support women’s rights and empowerment?

speaker

Audience member (unnamed)

explanation

This explores the root causes of gender inequality and seeks ways to transform societal attitudes.

How can international organizations like the APNIC Foundation contribute to empowering Afghan women while navigating the complex political situation?

speaker

Abdul Ghayoor Bawary

explanation

This question seeks to understand how international organizations can effectively support Afghan women within the constraints of the current political climate.

Summary

This discussion focused on the achievements, challenges, and future of the Internet Governance Forum (IGF) and broader internet governance. Panelists highlighted the IGF’s success in fostering inclusive multi-stakeholder dialogue on internet issues, creating global awareness of digital topics, and developing a network of national and regional IGFs. They emphasized the IGF’s role in promoting an open, global, interoperable, and secure internet.

Key challenges identified included bridging the digital divide, addressing the crisis of multilateralism, and securing stable funding and support for the IGF. Panelists stressed the importance of the multi-stakeholder approach in building trust and finding shared solutions to global internet issues. They also noted the growing involvement of youth in internet governance discussions.

Looking to the future, participants emphasized the need to secure the renewal of the IGF’s mandate in the upcoming WSIS+20 review. They called for strengthening the IGF’s role in implementing the Global Digital Compact and addressing emerging digital policy issues. The discussion highlighted the importance of continued multi-stakeholder engagement in shaping internet governance and the need for capacity building, especially for youth and developing countries.

Panelists agreed that the IGF remains crucial as a platform for inclusive dialogue on internet policy issues. They emphasized the need for continued support and improvement of the IGF to ensure its effectiveness in addressing future challenges in the rapidly evolving digital landscape.

Keypoints

Major discussion points:

– The achievements and challenges of the Internet Governance Forum (IGF) to date

– The importance of the multi-stakeholder approach to internet governance

– The need to secure renewal of the IGF’s mandate and strengthen its role

– The involvement of youth in internet governance processes

– Promoting an open, global, interoperable and secure internet

The overall purpose of the discussion was to reflect on the IGF’s accomplishments so far, discuss its current role in internet governance, and consider how to strengthen and sustain the IGF going forward, particularly in light of upcoming processes like the WSIS+20 review.

The tone of the discussion was generally positive and constructive. Speakers highlighted the IGF’s achievements and importance, while also acknowledging challenges and areas for improvement. There was a collaborative spirit, with participants building on each other’s points and expressing shared goals for the future of internet governance. The tone remained consistent throughout, with a focus on how to collectively strengthen multi-stakeholder internet governance processes.

Speakers

– Yoichi Iida: Session moderator, representing the Japanese government

– Gitanjali Sah: Strategy and Policy Coordinator from International Telecommunications Union

– Melanie Kaplan: From the Department of State of U.S. Government, active in Internet governance

– Timea Suto: From International Chamber of Commerce

– Yuliya Morenets: Founder of the Youth IGF Global

Additional speakers:

– Craig Stanley-Adamson: From UK Department of Science Innovation Technology

The Internet Governance Forum (IGF) Discussion: Achievements, Challenges, and Future Prospects

This comprehensive discussion, moderated by Yoichi Iida of the Japanese government, brought together key figures in internet governance to reflect on the IGF’s accomplishments, current role, and future direction. The panel, notably all-female, included representatives from international organisations, government bodies, and youth initiatives, providing a multi-faceted perspective on the IGF’s impact and potential.

Iida opened by highlighting the panel’s composition, noting its relevance to addressing the digital gender divide. He also emphasized the IGF’s role as a reference point for discussions on data flow and AI governance.

Achievements of the IGF

Panellists unanimously praised the IGF for its success in fostering inclusive multi-stakeholder dialogue on internet issues. Melanie Kaplan from the U.S. Department of State emphasized that the multi-stakeholder approach has been key to the internet’s success as a global platform. Timea Suto from the International Chamber of Commerce highlighted the IGF’s role as a platform for inclusive dialogue, while Yuliya Morenets, founder of the Youth IGF Global, noted the recognition and inclusion of youth voices as a major accomplishment.

The discussion underscored the IGF’s success in creating global awareness of digital topics and developing a network of national and regional IGFs. Craig Stanley-Adamson from the UK Department of Science Innovation Technology pointed out the IGF’s importance in fostering developing country leadership in internet governance discussions.

Challenges and Future Directions

Despite these achievements, the panellists identified several challenges. Timea Suto highlighted the need to bridge the digital divide and address the crisis of multilateralism. Funding and institutional stability emerged as critical issues, with Kaplan and Suto emphasizing the need to address the IGF’s funding challenges and stabilize its secretariat.

Looking ahead, securing the renewal of the IGF’s mandate in the upcoming WSIS+20 review was stressed as a primary goal. Kaplan called for improvements in IGF inclusivity and participation, particularly from developing countries. The role of youth in shaping internet governance was a recurring theme, with Morenets advocating for integrating youth perspectives in policy development and outlining four priorities for youth engagement.

Stanley-Adamson highlighted the need for the IGF to continue producing tangible outputs and impacts, particularly in implementing WSIS+20 and the Global Digital Compact (GDC). He also mentioned a report from the DNS Research Federation demonstrating the IGF’s impact on Internet Exchange Point growth in developing regions.

Kaplan emphasized the relevance of the GDC to the IGF’s work, referencing paragraphs 26 and 27 which describe the internet and the multi-stakeholder model. She also mentioned the Declaration for the Future of the Internet as an important initiative.

Suto stressed the importance of cross-border data flows and warned against the negative impact of data localization measures. The discussion also touched on the upcoming IGF in Norway in June, as noted by Iida.

Conclusion and Future Directions

The discussion concluded with a strong affirmation of the IGF’s crucial role in internet governance and a call for its continued support and improvement. Key takeaways included the need to secure the IGF’s mandate renewal, improve its inclusivity and participation, recognize its broader role beyond internet governance, and address funding and staffing challenges.

As Kaplan aptly summarized, “This is a pivotal time for the IGF”, with the recent adoption of the GDC and the upcoming WSIS+20 review. The discussion underscored the collective commitment to strengthening the IGF’s role in shaping a more inclusive, secure, and innovative digital future, with a particular emphasis on youth engagement and producing tangible outcomes.

Yoichi Iida: If you have questions from the floor, the speaker will come up to here. I will follow the order, but I will be watching the clock. Maybe I will invite you for the second question to talk about the future of digital. If you have questions from the floor, the speaker will come up to here. If you have questions from the floor, the speaker will come up to here. Maybe we should start very quickly. Okay, so I hope my microphone is on. So, good morning, everybody, and probably good morning, good day to online participants. Thank you very much for joining us in this session, which will talk about the Internet governance and also the future of IGF. So, I have a very wonderful line of speakers joining us. So, let me quickly introduce the speakers in person, and also we have one online participant here. So, from this side, Miss Gitanjali Sah, Strategy and Policy Coordinator from International Telecommunications Union. Thank you very much, Gitanjali, to join us. And second, Miss Temiya Suto from International Chamber of Commerce, who is always very active in IGF. So, thank you very much for joining us. And the third person is Miss Melanie Kaplan from the Department of State of U.S. Government. And Melanie is also very active in Internet governance. And I always call her Melanie, and I don’t know her official title, but okay, just forget it, yeah. We are always one of the stakeholders in this field. And last but not least, of course, we have Miss Yulia Morenet, if I pronounce correctly, founder of the Youth IGF Global. So, thank you very much, Yulia, for joining us online. We miss you, but we definitely expect a very active discussion today. So, just quickly to overview what was happening over the last few years. This year was actually a very busy year for us. As all of you are aware, United Nations discussed Global Digital Compact. And the outcome came out on the sideline of UN General Assembly in September. And we believe these outcomes are quite well organized and probably satisfied most of us. But the sentences look good, but the real value will be the follow-up. So, we have to discuss how we can follow up these outcomes and how we can bring these outcomes in the document into the reality in the next coming month. So, in next year, 2025, we will have the GDC follow-up, of course, but we will have WSIS Plus 20 review. And this will discuss how and what IGF will be continued as internet governance instrument under United Nations auspices. Next year, we will have next IGF in Norway in June, which is quite early compared to regular timing. And we need to be very much hurry up and busy after this IGF completed. But all of you must be very much aware that this IGF in Saudi looks very beautifully organized. And maybe I don’t want to keep you too long in this session, but I will give you more time to walk around and look around to see people here. But please be a little bit patient to see and what these wonderful speakers will talk about IGF in the future. So, the Japanese government has been also very active in this field. And we invited IGF last year to Kyoto, where more than 6,000 people gathered in person. And more than 10,000 people joined online, including in-person participants. So, in that sense, Kyoto IGF was very much successful. But of course, we have to think about the follow-up and the outcome and materialization of the outcomes from Kyoto interactions too. So, let me invite those speakers to my questions. So, first question. What are the major achievements of Internet Governance Forum up until now? And also the outstanding challenges in the Internet Governance for different stakeholders, including government, businesses, civil society, academia, international organizations? And when we think about the upcoming discussions and arguments. So, first, I will invite Melanie to share your views.

Melanie Kaplan: Well, thank you so much for having me, Yuichi. It’s a pleasure to see you and to be joined by such distinguished colleagues on the panel. Nice to see everyone here in the room and hello to stakeholders online. You know, I think I just start out by saying the United States strongly supports IGF as the preeminent global venue bringing together all stakeholders in a bottom-up process to discuss solutions on Internet public policy issues that are rights-respecting, innovative, and empowering. And sort of reflecting on past years in IGF, we’ve seen it as a great venue for discussions for the latest topics and very flexible to accommodate the evolution of key issues. We think that IGF continues to serve as a model for inclusivity and transparency in international engagements. And the sort of continued growth and breadth of conversations is a testament to the importance of the IGF. You know, one of the challenges that we see that many stakeholders face in Internet Governance is the ever-growing and expanding international landscape dealing with these issues. And IGF provides an excellent platform on an annual basis to sort of pull all these threads together. And as Yoichi was mentioning in his introduction, we do really see that this… This is a pivotal time for the IGF, with the GDC’s adoption that just happened at the Summit for the Future, and as we’re sort of in the outset of the WSIS Plus 20 overall review. And so as we sort of look forward and think about IGF of the future, you know, we very much support efforts to continue strengthening the IGF and increasing participation of stakeholders, particularly from developing countries. And we will, of course, in the WSIS Plus 20 review process, advocate very strongly for the continuation of the IGF’s mandate.

Yoichi Iida: Thank you very much, Melanie, for a very strong comment, probably from the government point of view. And so now let me ask, invite Tymia to share the same question from probably in particular business perspective.

Timea Suto: Thank you very much, Yoichi, and thank you for inviting me here. And it’s really great to see each other and start with a great session early on day zero. I hope we will be successful in sharing some light on the IGF and the path forward. Looking a little bit back, because we’re talking about the IGF achievements and what we’ve done thus far, as Melanie said, I think the main achievement of the IGF is being this instrument to foster inclusive multistakeholder dialogue on Internet governance and really bringing all of us together from business, government, civil society, academia, technical community. And it has established, IGF, it has established itself as the premier platform for this open and constructive discussion, not only on the Internet and its governance, but also on the array of technologies that enable the Internet or are enabled by the Internet. So it really points beyond now, 20 years in, from where we started on Internet governance. The other major contribution that I see from the IGF or what business sees from the IGF is creating this global awareness of digital issues, whether we’re talking about access to digital inclusion or to cybersecurity or emerging technologies, it’s really being here and having this conversation encourages having a shared understanding and collaboration between all the stakeholders. And to this, we can add the outcomes that come from the IGF intersessional work, such as the best practice forums, the dynamic coalitions, the policy networks, that have allowed stakeholders to collaborate across the year around specific issues that they are interested in and bring their contributions to this forum, but also elsewhere. While these outputs are not binding from the IGF, they do provide insights and practical guidance sometimes for both policy makers and businesses, very happy always to see these outcomes come to life. And then last but not least about the achievements of the IGF, we shouldn’t forget the national and regional network that the IGF managed to build over the past almost 20 years that really brings the global discussions back down into the local practice, but also makes sure that our conversations at a global level are informed by the local realities and the grassroots engagement that these communities can have to these networks. So I think the IGF, we all hear the critics sometimes saying that it’s only a talk shop, but looking beyond that veil, I think it has accomplished quite a bit in 20 years. And there is a good report that came out earlier this year, I think from the UK government, so maybe my colleagues can present it to you later on. All this doesn’t come on its own. We do have a lot of challenges that we need to address, both as an international community and then the IGF itself. In the context that we are in today, and Melanie also you alluded to that, it’s an ever-changing world. And right now in digital and other conversations, I think the fundamental challenge, one of it is bridging the digital divide. We have done a lot over the years, but there is, despite this global progress, the gaps in access, the gaps in connectivity that get deeper and deeper with the fast evolution of technology. So the gaps in connectivity, when you look at them as data gaps or as gaps in AI, it’s actually deepening and widening, and we have to really make sure that we address that. And we can only address that together, both in a multilateral and a multistakeholder setting. The other challenge that I see is what some have dubbed the crisis of multilateralism that we are living today. We’ve seen it with the GCC, we’ve seen it with other negotiations in the United Nations. We really are facing a moment where it’s very difficult to reach agreements, where it’s very difficult to have trust in global conversations. And I think that impacts a lot the conversations that we have about the IGF, the conversations we have about digital. So I think the multistakeholder approach can actually help us build back that trust, trust in the multilateral system, but also the trust between the various communities. And I think that is one element of the IGF that we need to bring forward as we look ahead on what we want to do about the GDC implementation, about the WSIS Plus 20. We need to tap into this multistakeholder energy of the IGF to try and bring back that trust in global cooperation and in the multilateral conversations. So perhaps that’s where we should start. And then we can go into a lot of the smaller challenges that the IGF itself has, which is small secretariats and unstable funding and a number of other operational issues that perhaps the WSIS can also help address if we’re going forward. So I’ll leave it at that. And Pascal.

Yoichi Iida: OK. Thank you very much. Very comprehensive comments, including the various points of achievements and also risks and challenges. You touched upon the risk of splitting out the world into bilateralism or others. From the international organization’s perspective, you may have also some views on the same question, but also if you could touch upon the Kyoto conference, because ITU, I believe, was playing a very active role in Kyoto IGF.

Gitanjali Sah: Thank you very much, Yuichi-san, and thank you for inviting us and convening us for this important conversation. So the IGF remains crucial due to its multi-stakeholder and inclusive nature. The previous panelists have emphasized on this fact. It’s a dialogue on internet governance that brings together the government, civil society, private sector, technical community, all of us together to facilitate global collaboration and cooperation on important issues like data privacy, digital inclusion, cyber security. And I think one of the impressive aspects of IGF has been the involvement of the youth. I think my previous panelists have covered most of it, but I can emphasize on the fact that IGF has been recognizing the youth both as a future user and innovators of the internet. That’s a very important aspect. So, many related platforms have been created, the youth IGF, the youth tracks, to ensure that their voices are captured and included. Another innovation, of course, is the local chapters bringing in the regional and local perspectives into global discussions and dialogues, very important. IGF 2023, as you alluded, in Kyoto was a very key milestone to the WSIS plus 20 process. The discussions and deliberations feed into the joint preparatory process that we are currently working on with ITU, UNESCO, UNDESA, the CSTD Secretariat. We’ve been having weekly meetings to consolidate the outcomes since IGF 2023 on different perspectives of the WSIS plus 20 process. So like the IGF, the WSIS plus 20 forum high-level event in 2024 also highlighted the fact that there should be a WSIS plus. The Swiss chair’s summary also captured these aspects. And as the UN, we have also been contributing very, very frequently to the GDC process. As the UN, we’ve been emphasizing on the importance of WSIS, the continuation of WSIS, and that with platforms like WSIS Forum, IGF, remain important multi-stakeholder platforms to bring in perspectives on global digital cooperation. So we stand ready, we have the frameworks, very well-functioning frameworks to complement and implement the GDC. Again, I would also like to conclude saying that in Kyoto, we also had multi-stakeholder dialogues on digital cooperation, very important. Mr. Utsumi was also in our session. He is one of the founders of WSIS, you may say. So it was a… a very important milestone in driving digital transformation and addressing the digital divide. So thank you so much for organizing such a great event. And we look forward to the IGF here in Saudi, and we look forward to the outcomes. Thank you.

Yoichi Iida: Thank you very much, Gitanjali. And I recognize you have to leave in the middle of the session. But thank you very much for this very helpful comment. And in your comment, there was a stress emphasized on the role of youth community. So now we have a representative from Youth IGF online, Yulia. So I would like to invite her to make some response to my question. So Yulia, you are our hope. Yulia, you are our hope. Yulia, you are our hope. Yulia, you are our hope. All right, I see myself.

Yuliya Morenets: Good morning to all, to our colleagues. And thank you for inviting us to this very important panel, indeed, this morning. So Gitanjali, I’m very, very happy to see you on that panel as well. And thank you for, in some essence, introducing, actually, what I was about to say. Of course, I will be speaking right now today from the perspective of the youth communities, of the presence of the young people. So I think the major achievement of the IGF is actually the presence and the recognition itself of the community, of the young people, and of the future leaders. And actually, the existence of the youth track itself in the program of the IGF. Gitanjali, you just said that it’s very important to recognize this group. But I do remember how it all started, when back in 2011, we’re sitting at the internal MAG meeting, right, discussing, and when I proposed to have the, and to do something for the young people. So it all started, actually, in 2011, with the very first meeting of the young and teenagers, how we called that, and that stayed, actually, slowly. And suddenly, it moved to 2016, when we first organized the open forum together with the European Parliament delegation to the IGF, it was a full house. And somehow, from that time, it started to move. And I think because also the community, the mighty stakeholder community, started to be ready to recognize the voice of the young people. And of course, their presence. And from there, I would say that, you know, they started, let’s say, the creation and the reinforcement of the generation of the new leaders in IG. And of course, a number of young people found their role, found their passion, but also, professionally speaking, but also, of course, personally speaking, I think so. And so, if we speak about the future of the IGF, and I think it will be developed later in the discussion, of course, the future of the IGF and the whole process will go now together with the presence of the young people, of the young leaders, of the young communities, and actually, it’s one of the booming stakeholder groups. And I can imagine, we can’t imagine anymore the IGF and the future of the IGF without the presence of the young leaders. Yoishi-san, you have the mic.

Yoichi Iida: Okay, thank you very much, Ilya, for the comment, and thank you very much for your time to join us online. So, apparently, you know, the multi-stakeholder approach and its development or promotion is one of the major achievements from IGF at this point. So, let me ask probably the remaining three speakers, how are you engaged now in promoting multi-stakeholder approach? How are you engaging in promoting open, global, interoperable, but secure, safe, secure internet? And what are you doing? And probably, if I may, how you are envisioning the future of internet at this moment, if you look over the next coming month or one or two years? So, unfortunately, Gitanjali has to go to the next session, but now I would like to first invite Timya to respond to this question.

Timea Suto: Very much, I’ll try and address the two questions in one. Perhaps we can also save some time. So, what about, I’ll be shameless and plug in a little bit about the International Chamber of Commerce. If, for those of you who might not know us, ICC is a global business organization. We represent over 45 million businesses of all sectors and all kinds of sizes in more than over 170 countries in the world. What we do is we try to be a hub for input and gathering and understanding what businesses all around the world think about the most pressing issues, policy issues around the internet, try and gather them views, and then try and put those views back out into multilateral, multistakeholder, international discussions. We really believe firmly that, and we say it a lot, that open, global, interoperable, and resilient internet is essential for economic growth, innovation, and societal progress. So we try to do what we do in the spirit of advancing this credo. And we do believe that the internet must remain a platform for free communication, seamless global trade, and inclusive digital participation that enables businesses, small and big, and people in every region to benefit from the digital economy. So what we do to try and promote this, we work on issues like universal meaningful connectivity, trying to promote a holistic policy framework that looks at expanding connectivity at all its layers, starting from infrastructure, but including also the applications and services that are necessary for people to want to connect to the internet, as well as the skills that are needed there to interact with that content and shape it for themselves. We work a lot on strengthening cybersecurity and digital trust. So we advocate, of course, for a strong cybersecurity framework, looking at cybersecurity as a shared responsibility between governments and businesses. So, of course, we believe that there’s a lot that the private sector needs to do to enhance the resilience of the internet, but relying only on the defensive capabilities of the private sector is not enough. We need to work hand-in-hand with governments to actually try and deter malicious cyber activity that governments can do to protect their populations and businesses, which is creating enforcement frameworks that hold bad actors accountable, that enhance international cooperation, and invest in cyber resilience also at the national level. Then, of course, another very important thing, and we’ve collaborated with Japan on this quite a bit, is we prioritize promoting cross-border data flows with trust, which we believe are fundamental to the interconnected global operation of the internet and support the businesses operating on or using the internet. And we try and make sure that it is clearly understood that regulatory fragmentation, like data localization measures, undermine this open nature of the internet, undermine innovation, and raise barriers to business and to consumers to be able to access the services that they need and develop over the internet. So these are the issues that we would like solved for the future of the internet as well. So the internet that we want and that we’re looking forward to is one that is open, secure, inclusive, and resilient, one that fosters innovation, economic growth, and social development, one that is built on trust, transparency, and security, and that has inclusive, universal access to services, connectivity, infrastructure, and digital skills. And we believe firmly that as an enabler for all of this, we need the multi-stakeholder engagement in internet governance, that the future internet governance must continue to be shaped by the range of perspectives of all the stakeholders from governments to business to civil society and the tech community, because we need to ensure that policies reflect the realities from the ground, and they are diverse enough to accommodate local realities but also that fosters collaboration, mutual understanding, and with that capacity building to be able to find really this shared solutions to these global problems that cannot be localized to one level because that creates the problem of fragmenting both our policy frameworks, but also fragmenting the internet itself, which we would like to avoid for the future. So I think that’s our vision and what we do about it, and I’m glad to talk about all of this with you later.

Yoichi Iida: Okay, thank you very much for this, again, comprehensive comment on what you are doing now and what you are trying to do in the future. We have done. quite a lot, I believe, but we still have a lot to do. But what you mentioned in your comment, the interoperability of regulatory frameworks or government frameworks, not only in data, but also probably AI and other digital policy, I think it will be a very, very urgent issue, and we will probably dig in a little bit more in the afternoon session, moderated by yourself. So thank you very much for the comment, and now I would like to invite Melanie for the same question.

Melanie Kaplan: So looking at sort of what we’re doing now to promote an open, global, interoperable, and reliable internet, we really see the multi-stakeholder approach to internet governance as indispensable for the internet’s success as a global platform for communications, commerce, and innovation. We engage in a variety of fora to support the multi-stakeholder system, and we want to encourage multi-stakeholder input into processes and discussions addressing internet public policy issues. I know the GDC has already come up a lot this morning, but I think if you look back in the GDC, that was one of the recent things I did to promote the internet, and so if you look at paragraph 26, the GDC describes the internet as open, global, interoperable, stable, and secure. And then I like paragraph 27 even better, which has really strong language on the multi-stakeholder model of internet governance. It uses the word multi-stakeholder. It lists out all the stakeholders. It talks about the technical community and recognizes them as a separate stakeholder group. So that’s something that I think is sort of a recent thing that many of us in this room have worked on together. And then I’d also just point back to another thing that the US government has been very involved in, which was the Declaration for the Future of the Internet, which has, I believe, more than 60 signatories and talks about the internet as an open, free, global, interoperable, reliable, and secure. So that’s sort of what we’ve done recently, but then sort of looking ahead to the future, we support a global multi-stakeholder approach to internet governance that’s building capacity, providing technical assistance, and support for implementation, inclusive, human-centric, sustainable internet. And we really see that the active and meaningful participation of all stakeholders is essential to inform our discussions on policymaking and to promote transparency, accountability, and to strengthen implementation. And so really, we see the multi-stakeholder model as the best way to ensure the internet continues to innovate and help all of us. And so we welcome, we know there’s a lot of active conversations with stakeholders about ways to continue to improve multi-stakeholder processes. I think NetMundial Plus 10 was one of those conversations, just one example of that continued dialogue. And as we’ve talked about already today, I think there’s going to be a lot more dialogue of this as homework, right? The GDC gave us homework, the WSIS review is going on. So all this to say, we think that these topics are going to keep coming up and we keep coming back to multi-stakeholderism as really the way forward.

Yoichi Iida: Okay, thank you very much. Your comment, paragraph 26, 27, reminded me of the very busy man to negotiate the sentences. We believe the outcome is okay, but I also am aware that some of the people probably on the floor today or others on the online might have been a little bit frustrated about the process and that would be one of the homeworks for us for the next year. So thank you very much. And now I would like to invite Yuliya again for the same question. Your vision on what we are doing and also what you would expect for the future of the internet. Yuliya, please go ahead.

Yuliya Morenets: Very quickly. I think the promotion of the internet governance and the young people are the greatest, one of the greatest groups in promoting. And the fact for the young people to be present, that’s already a great promotion itself. Because they are one of the strongest groups together with others. So now, of course, their voice needs to go from the voice itself, probably at this stage, to the pipeline solutions and also in starting having an impact in the policy development. But in order, of course, to fully give them the opportunity to promote the process of the digital cooperation and be strongly present at the internet governance area, we really need to all work together to reinforce their capacities. And capacities for the open, sustainable and reliable internet. So that’s why actually we have four priorities, that we have identified. And we work particularly on these four priorities, which is the online safety, face online, cyber security skills and digital cooperation. So I would say in order to have these, as I just said, voice being stronger and be present in a more stable way, we really need all together work in developing the reinforcement capacities of the young people in different regions all over the world. Yuichi-san.

Yoichi Iida: Thank you very much, Ria-san, for the comment. And it is always very important to have active young people engaged in internet governance and not only internet governance, but also all other digital policymaking. So we always welcome your contributions and we are always hoping to work closely together. So now I would like to invite maybe one or two questions from the floor or participants online to these wonderful speakers. One of the things you may have been aware is surprising us is we have very wonderful four women on the stage. Gitanjali has already left, but we have four girls. And we have been talking about the digital gender divide, but what is that? Maybe from next year we have to talk about the digital gender divide from the different perspective, maybe the other way around. So I would like to, I didn’t exclude boys or men from the speakers when I invited for this session, but all volunteers were women. So it’s surprising. I would like to now ask boys, hey, what are you doing? But anyway, so now the question is open to girls and boys, whoever. Yeah, please.

Craig Stanley-Adamson: Hi, can this work? Yeah, brilliant. Just like to introduce myself, Craig Stanley-Adamson. I work at the UK Department of Science Innovation Technology. First, I’d like to thank the panelists for all your views, as well as to Yuichi and the Japanese government for chairing and hosting this. I’d like to follow up on the points that Tamiya made earlier on about reports that came out of an independent organization called the DNS Research Federation based in Oxford. It’s basically a really, really good report that talks about the tangible impacts that the IGF has had. I’d just like to highlight two or three of them just now to, and then share some views and maybe talk about how the IGF can continue to have these tangible outputs and impacts, particularly as we go into WSIS plus 20 implementation, things like that. So one of the first one being that the IGF has been a venue for basically creating the next leadership of global self and developing country leadership. This platform, this forum didn’t really exist before then, and now these voices are able to contribute to the WSIS process, which therefore makes it a stronger process and a stronger set of outcomes. In addition as well, the IGF’s been really a driver of the growth of IXPs. I think one example in the report, I don’t remember the exact numbers, but there were maybe sort of a low number of some of the barely functioning IXPs across Africa. With the help of the IGF, this rose to almost 50, just in the space of 10 years or whatever, of fully functioning IXPs across a number of cities, which is a real, real tangible example we can use, all of which go towards the supporting of WSIS implementation. There’s one more as well, it’s also been a really good mediator of some big crucial issues, such as the transition of IANA functions, which was, the IGF played a crucial role there. So I guess the question I have to the panel is what more can we do, or what can we do to support the IGF in these big decisions that it can have a role in, particularly after WSIS Plus 20, in implementing that and the likes of the GDC as well. So yeah, that’s my question. Thank you.

Yoichi Iida: OK, thank you very much. So who would like to make a comment back? Maybe both. To start.

Timea Suto: Thank you so much, Craig. Great question. And again, kudos to the developers of that report. It was quite informative. Because we tend to lose sight of what happened five years, 10 years ago. But we should remember the digest role. To respond, what we should do about the IGF, well first of all, I think we need to secure renewal of its mandates. That’s the first step in the Business Plus 20 review. Secondly, I think we need to make sure that the IGF is recognized in these roles that it’s playing, not only for internet governance, but also for the various issues that you’ve mentioned, from connectivity to other substantive issues that it can contribute to. So it’s not anymore just a discussion on internet governance in its purest form. And also, as I mentioned earlier, I think we have a number of institutional challenges that the IGF is bearing through or is powering through with an understaffed and underfunded secretariat with uncertainty of its future. I think we could do a bit better in making sure that that is stabilized and that the support to actually fulfill all these functions and potentials is there on the operational level. So I think that could be something that the Business Plus 20 could perhaps discuss and see if we can bring the IGF into a more stable foundation within the UN system.

Melanie Kaplan: I totally agree with Tameya that, first and foremost, we all are going to work really hard to make sure that the IGF mandate is extended in the Business Plus 20 overall review process. And we have heard stakeholders talk a lot about, how do you continue to improve the IGF? I mean, I think we see the IGF as a really good thing, but we always are looking for ways to improve it and to make it more inclusive and more participatory. And I also know that there’s a lot of stakeholder discussions out there about the funding issues. So I think that that’s another sort of conversation that I’m sure we’ll hear more about in the future.

Yoichi Iida: OK, thank you very much. Yeah, actually, IGF has been running on the front line of this type of multi-stakeholder governance in digital policymaking field. And every time I discussed governance mechanism for data flow across borders or maybe AI governance global, every time the IGF was a kind of a reference point for us, a guiding example for me. So I think the success of this framework is very, very important for the future of the whole digital economy and whole digital global society, I think. So thank you very much for the very good question and very, very wonderful comment. So any other question or even the comment from the floor? Or any question online?

Yuliya Morenets: If I can add something, Yoshi-san?

Yoichi Iida: Oh, yeah, of course. I’m sorry. Please.

Yuliya Morenets: Thank you.

Yoichi Iida: I’m sorry.

Yuliya Morenets: It’s always challenging to be on-site online. So that’s Yulia from the global youth IGF movement. I just wanted to say a few things. I think you don’t see me, but that’s OK. You have the voice. I just wanted to… A lot has been said right now about the, you know, stabilizing and securing the mining stakeholder model and the IGF future. But also I would like as coming from the… I mean, now coming with the question of young people being present and as we all agree that they are now part of this model and represent a very important stakeholder group, of course, I would urge the governments and different stakeholders in public sectors, stakeholders to have a consistent and stable support and resources that they can bring to these youth communities that actually represent a great voice in promoting that they need the existence and the development, right, of the model itself. And maybe what we can also do all together is really to reinforce, because that’s needed for the youth communities, is to reinforce the capacities itself in the mining stakeholder model, right? Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much. I appreciate it. See you guys. you you you you you you and as we all agree that they are now part of this model and represent a very important Stakeholder group, of course, I would urge the government

Gitanjali Saha: Dogs on digital cooperation very important Mr. Otsumi was also in our session. He is one of the founders of business you may say So it was a very important Milestone in driving digital transformation and addressing the digital divide So, thank you so much for organizing such a great event and we look forward to the idea of here in Saudi And we look forward to the outcomes.

Yoichi Iida: Thank you. Okay. Thank you very much Gitanjali and I Recognize you have to leave in the middle of the session, but thank you very much for this very helpful comment and Your comment there was a stress emphasize on the role of youth community, so now we have Representative from youth IGF Online Yulia, so I would like to invite Her to make Some response to my question. So Yulia you are our hope I

Yuliya Morenets: See myself good morning to Colleagues and thank you for inviting us to this very important Panel indeed this morning. So I think Anjali I’m very very happy to see you on panel on that panel as well. And thank you for In some essence introducing actually what I was about to say, of course, I will be speaking Right now today from the perspective of of the youth communities, right Of the presence of the young people so I think the major achievement of the idea is actually the presence and the recognition itself of the community of the of the young people and of the future leaders And actually the existence of the youth track itself in the program of the IGF And Anjali you just said that it’s very important to recognize this group, but I do remember how it all started when back in 2011 we’re sitting at the Internal MAG meeting right discussing and when I proposed to have the and to do something for the young people So it’s all started actually in 2011 with the very first meeting of the young and teenagers how we called that and and that stayed actually slowly and suddenly boomed in 2016 when we first organized the Open forum together with the European Parliament delegation to the IGF It was a full house and somehow from that time it started to boom and I think because also the community the mighty stakeholder community Started to be ready to recognize the voice of the young people and of course their presence and from there I would say that you know the Started let’s say the creation and the reinforcement of the generation of the new leaders in IG And of course a number of young people found their role, found their passion But also professionally speaking, but also of course Personally speaking I think so and so if we speak about the future of the IGF And I think it will be developed later in the discussion Of course the future of the IGF and the whole process will go now together with the presence of the young people of the young leaders of the young communities and And actually it’s one of the booming Stakeholder groups, and I can imagine we can’t imagine anymore The IGF and the future of the IGF without the presence of the young leaders Yoshi-san you have

Yoichi Iida: Okay, thank you very much For the comment and thank you very much for your time to join us online So Apparently you know the multi-stakeholder approach and its development or promotion It’s one of the major Achievements from IGF at this point, so let me ask probably the remaining three speakers How are you engaged now in promoting multi-stakeholder approach? How are you engaging in in promoting open global interoperable but secure safe secure internet, and what are you doing? And probably if I may how you are Envision the future of the internet at this moment if you look over the next coming month or one or two years, so unfortunately Gitanjali has to go to the next session, but now I would like to first invite Timia to to respond to this question

Timea Suto: Very much, I’ll try and address that the two questions in in one perhaps we can also save some time So what about? I’ll be shameless and plug in a little bit about the International Chamber of Commerce if For those of you who might not know us ICC is a global business organization We represent over 45 million businesses of all sectors and all kinds of sizes in more than over 170 countries in the world What we do is is we try to be a hub for input and gathering and understanding what what business is all around the world Think about the the most pressing issues Policy issues around the internet try and gather them views and then try and put those views back out into multilateral multi-stakeholder international discussions We really believe firmly That and we say a lot That open global interoperable and resilient internet is essential for economic growth innovation and societal progress So we try to do what we do in in in the spirit of advancing this this credo and we do believe that the internet must remain a platform for free communication or seamless global trade and inclusive digital participation that enables Businesses small and big and people in every region to benefit from the digital economy So what we do to try and promote this we work on issues like universal meaningful connectivity trying to promote a holistic policy framework that looks at expanding connectivity at all its layers starting from infrastructure, but including also the applications and Services that are necessary for people to want to connect to the internet as well as the skills that are needed There to to interact with that content and shape it for themselves We work a lot on strengthening cyber security and digital trust So, we advocate, of course, for a strong cyber security framework, looking at cyber security as a shared responsibility between governments and businesses. So, of course, we believe that there’s a lot that the private sector needs to do to enhance the resilience of the Internet, but relying only on the defensive capabilities of the private sector is not enough. We need to work hand in hand with governments to actually try and deter malicious cyber activity that governments can do to protect their populations and businesses, which including enforcement frameworks that hold bad actors accountable, that enhance international cooperation, and invest in cyber resilience also at the national level. Then, of course, another very important thing, and we’ve collaborated with Japan on this quite a bit, is we prioritize promoting cross-border data flows with trust, which we believe are fundamental to the interconnected global operation of the Internet and support the businesses operating on or using the Internet. And we try and make sure that it is clearly understood that regulatory fragmentation like data localization measures undermine this open nature of the Internet, undermine innovation, and raise barriers to business and to consumers to be able to access the services that they need and develop over the Internet. So these are the issues that we would like solved for the future of the Internet as well. So the Internet that we want, that we’re looking forward to, is one that is open, secure, inclusive, and resilient, one that fosters innovation, economic growth, and social development, one that is built on trust, transparency, and security, and that has inclusive universal access to services, connectivity, infrastructure, and digital skills. And we believe firmly that as an enabler for all of this, we need the multi-stakeholder engagement in Internet governance, that the future Internet governance must continue to be shaped by the range of perspectives of all the stakeholders from governments to business to civil society and the tech community, because we need to ensure that policies reflect the realities from the ground, and they are diverse enough to accommodate local realities, but also that fosters collaboration, mutual understanding, and with that capacity building to be able to find really these shared solutions to these global problems that cannot be localized to one level, because that creates the problem of fragmenting both our policy frameworks, but also fragmenting the Internet itself, which we would like to avoid for the future. So I think that’s our vision and what we do about it, and I’m glad to talk about all of this with you later.

Yoichi Iida: Okay, thank you very much for this, again, comprehensive comment on what you are doing now and what you are trying to do in the future. We have done quite a lot, I believe, but we still have a lot to do. But what you mentioned in your comment, the interoperability of regulatory frameworks or government frameworks, not only in data, but also probably AI and other digital policy, I think it will be a very, very urgent issue, and we will probably dig in a little bit more in the afternoon session, moderated by yourself. So thank you very much for the comment, and now I would like to invite Melanie for the same question.

Melanie Kaplan: So looking at sort of what we’re doing now to promote an open global interoperable and reliable Internet, we really see the multistakeholder approach to Internet governance as indispensable for the Internet’s success as a global platform for communications, commerce, and innovation. We engage in a variety of fora to support the multistakeholder system, and we want to encourage multistakeholder input into processes and discussions addressing Internet public policy issues. I know the GDC has already come up a lot this morning, but I think if you look back in the GDC, that was one of the recent things I did to promote the Internet, and so if you look at paragraph 26, the GDC describes the Internet as open, global, interoperable, stable, and secure, and then I like paragraph 27 even better, which has really strong language on the multistakeholder model of Internet governance. It uses the word multistakeholder. It lists out all the stakeholders. It talks about the technical community and recognizes them as a separate stakeholder group, so that’s something that I think is sort of a recent thing that many of us in this room have worked on together, and then I’d also just point back to another thing that the U.S. government has been very involved in, which was the Declaration for the Future of the Internet, which has, I believe, more than 60 signatories and talks about the Internet as an open, free, global, interoperable, reliable, and secure, so that’s sort of what we’ve done recently, but then sort of looking ahead to the future, you know, we support a global multistakeholder approach to Internet governance that’s building capacity, providing technical assistance, and support for implementation, inclusive, human-centric, sustainable Internet, and we really see that the active and meaningful participation of all stakeholders is essential to inform our discussions on policymaking and to promote transparency, accountability, and to strengthen implementation, and so really we see the multistakeholder model as the best way to ensure the Internet continues to innovate and help all of us, and so, you know, we welcome and we know there’s a lot of active conversations with stakeholders about ways to continue to improve multistakeholder processes. You know, I think NetMundial Plus 10 was one of those conversations, just one example of that continued dialogue, and, you know, as we’ve talked about already today, I think there’s going to be a lot more dialogue of this as homework, right, the GDC gave us homework, the WSIS review is going on, so all this to say we think that these topics are going to keep coming up, and we keep coming back to multistakeholderism as really the way forward.

Yoichi Iida: Okay, thank you very much, your comment, you know, paragraph 26, 27, you know, reminded me of the very busy man to negotiate the sentences. We believe, you know, the outcome is okay, but I also am aware that, you know, some of the people probably on the floor today or others on the online might have been a little bit frustrated about the process, and that would be one of the homeworks for us for the next year. So thank you very much, and now I would like to invite Yulia again for the same question, your vision on what we are doing and also what you would expect for the future of the internet.

Yuliya Morenets: Very quickly, I think the promotion of the internet governance, and the young people are the greatest, one of the greatest groups in promoting, and the fact for the young people to be present, that’s already, you know, a great promotion itself. Of course, because they are one of the strongest groups together with others. So now, of course, their voice needs to go from the voice itself, probably at this stage, to the pipeline solutions, and also in starting having an impact in the policy development. But in order, of course, to fully, you know, give them the opportunity to promote the process of the digital cooperation and be strongly present in the internet governance area, we really need all to work together to reinforce their capacities, and capacities for the open, sustainable, and reliable internet. So that’s why, actually, we have four priorities that we have identified, and we work particularly on these four priorities, which is the online safety, fakes online, cyber security skills, and digital cooperation. So I would say, in order to have this, as I just said, voice being stronger, and be present in a more stable way, we really need all together work in developing the reinforcement capacities of the young people in different regions all over the world. Yuichi-san.

Yoichi Iida: Thank you very much, Ria-san, for the comment, and, you know, it is always very important to have active young people engaged in internet governance, and not only internet governance, but also all other digital policymaking. So we always welcome your contributions, and we are always hoping to work closely together. So now I would like to invite maybe one or two questions from the floor, or participants online, to these wonderful speakers. One of the things you may have been aware is surprising us is, you know, we have very wonderful four women on the stage, you know. Anjali has already left, but we have four girls, and we have been talking about the digital gender divide, but what is that? Maybe from next year, we have to talk about the digital gender divide from the different perspective, maybe the other way around. So I would like to, I didn’t exclude boys, men, from the speakers when I invited them. For this session. But I, you know, all volunteers were women, so it’s surprising. I would like to now, you know, ask boys, hey, what are you doing? But anyway, now the question is open to girls and boys. Well, whoever. Yeah, please.

Craig Stanley-Adamson: Hi, can this work, this? Yeah, brilliant. Just like to introduce myself, Craig Stanley-Adamson, I work at the UK Department of Science Innovation Technology. First like to thank the panelists for all your views, as well as to Yuichi and the Japanese government for chairing and hosting this. I’d like to follow up on the points that Tamiya made earlier on about reports that came out of an independent organization called the DNS Research Federation, based in Oxford. It’s basically a really, really good report that talks about the tangible impact that the IGF has had. I’d just like to highlight two or three of them just now, to, and then share some views, and maybe talk about how the IGF can continue to have these tangible outputs and impacts, particularly as we go into WSIS plus 20 implementation, things like that. So one of the, the first one being that the IGF has been a venue for basically creating the next leadership of global self and developing country leadership. This platform, this forum didn’t really exist before then, and now these voices are able to contribute to the WSIS process, which therefore makes it a stronger process and a stronger set of outcomes. In addition as well, the IGF’s been really a driver of the growth of IXPs. I think one example in the report, I don’t remember the exact numbers, but there were maybe sort of a low number of some of the barely functioning IXPs across Africa. With the help of the IGF, this rose to almost 50, just a few in the space of 10 or years or whatever, of fully functioning IXPs across a number of cities, which is a real, real tangible example we can use, all of which go towards the supporting of WSIS implementation. There’s one more as well. It’s also been a really good mediator of some big crucial issues, such as the transition of IANA functions, which was, IGF played a crucial role there. So I guess the question I have to the panel is what more can we do or what can we do to support the IGF in these big decisions that it can have a role in, particularly after WSIS plus 20 and implementing that and the likes of the GDC as well. So yeah, that’s my question. Thank you.

Yoichi Iida: Okay, thank you very much. So who’d like to make a comment back? Maybe both.

Timea Suto: To start. Thank you so much, Craig. Great question. And again, kudos to the developers of that report. It was quite informative because we tend to lose sight of what happened five years, 10 years ago, but we should remember the IGF’s role. To respond, what we should do about the IGF, well, first of all, I think we need to secure renewal of its mandates. That’s the first step in the WSIS plus 20 review. Secondly, I think we need to make sure that the IGF is recognized in these roles that it’s playing, not only for internet governance, but also for the various issues that you’ve mentioned from connectivity to other substantive issues that it can contribute to. So it’s not anymore just a discussion on internet governance in its purest form. And also, as I mentioned earlier, I think we have a number of institutional challenges that the IGF is bearing through or is powering through with an understaffed and underfunded secretariat with uncertainty of its future. I think we could do a bit better in making sure that that is stabilized and that the support to actually fulfill all these functions and potentials is there on the operational level. So I think that could be something that the WSIS plus 20 could perhaps discuss and see if we can bring the IGF into a more stable foundation within the UN system.

Melanie Kaplan: I totally agree with Tameya that first and foremost, we all are gonna work really hard to make sure that the IGF mandate is extended in the WSIS plus 20 overall review process. And we have heard stakeholders talk a lot about how do you continue to improve the IGF? I mean, I think we see the IGF as a really good thing, but we always are looking for ways to improve it and to make it more inclusive and more participatory. And I also know that there’s a lot of stakeholder discussions out there about the funding issues. So I think that that’s another sort of conversation that I’m sure we’ll hear more about in the future.

Yoichi Iida: Okay, thank you very much. Yeah, actually IGF has been running on the frontline of this type of multi-stakeholder governance in digital policymaking field. And every time I discussed like governance mechanism for data flow across borders, or maybe AI governance global, every time the IGF was a kind of a reference point for us, like a guiding example for me. So I think the success of this framework is very, very important for the future of whole digital economy and whole digital global society, I think. So thank you very much for the very good question and very, very wonderful comment. So any other question or even the comment from the floor? Or any question online? If I can add something, Yoshi-san. Oh yeah, of course, I’m sorry. Please.

Yuliya Morenets: Thank you. I’m sorry. It’s always challenging to be on site online. So that’s Julia from the global youth IGF movement. I just wanted to say a few things. I think you don’t see me, but that’s okay. You have the voice. I just wanted to, a lot has been said right now about the stabilizing and securing the multi-stakeholder model and the IGF future. But also I would like as coming from the, I mean, now coming with the question of young people being present, and as we all agree that they are now part of this model and represent a very important stakeholder group. Of course, I would urge the governments and different stakeholders in public sectors, stakeholders to have a consistent and stable support and resources that they can bring to these youth communities that actually represented a great voice in promoting that they need the existence and the development, right, of the model itself. Maybe what we can also do all together is really to reinforce, because that’s needed for the youth communities, is to reinforce the capacities itself in the multi-stakeholder model, right? Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Yoichi Iida: Thank you.

Agreement Points

Importance of multi-stakeholder approach in internet governance

Melanie Kaplan

Timea Suto

Multi-stakeholder approach as key achievement

IGF as platform for inclusive dialogue on internet governance

Both speakers emphasize the crucial role of the multi-stakeholder approach in internet governance, highlighting its importance for fostering inclusive dialogue and decision-making.

Need to secure IGF’s mandate and improve its functioning

Melanie Kaplan

Timea Suto

Improving IGF inclusivity and participation

Securing renewal of IGF mandate in WSIS+20 review

Stabilizing IGF’s institutional foundation

Both speakers stress the importance of renewing IGF’s mandate and improving its operational aspects, including inclusivity, participation, and institutional stability.

Recognition of youth involvement in internet governance

Yuliya Morenets

Timea Suto

Recognition and inclusion of youth voices

IGF as platform for inclusive dialogue on internet governance

Both speakers highlight the importance of youth involvement in internet governance discussions and the IGF’s role in facilitating this inclusion.

Similar Viewpoints

Both speakers advocate for an open, global, and interoperable internet, emphasizing the importance of multi-stakeholder input in shaping internet governance policies.

Melanie Kaplan

Timea Suto

Supporting multi-stakeholder input in policy discussions

Business advocacy for open and resilient internet

Both speakers emphasize the importance of capacity building and leadership development for underrepresented groups (youth and developing countries) in internet governance.

Yuliya Morenets

Craig Stanley-Adamson

Reinforcing youth capacities in internet governance

IGF as venue for developing country leadership

Unexpected Consensus

IGF’s role in tangible infrastructure development

Craig Stanley-Adamson

Timea Suto

IGF’s role in driving growth of Internet Exchange Points

IGF as platform for inclusive dialogue on internet governance

While the IGF is often seen primarily as a discussion forum, there’s an unexpected consensus on its role in driving tangible infrastructure development, particularly in developing regions.

Overall Assessment

Summary

The main areas of agreement include the importance of the multi-stakeholder approach, the need to secure and improve IGF’s mandate and functioning, the recognition of youth involvement, and the IGF’s role in fostering inclusive dialogue and tangible development outcomes.

Consensus level

There is a high level of consensus among the speakers on the fundamental importance and achievements of the IGF, as well as the need for its continuation and improvement. This strong consensus implies broad support for the multi-stakeholder model of internet governance and suggests a united front in advocating for the IGF’s renewal and enhancement in upcoming international discussions.

Different Viewpoints

Focus of IGF improvements

Melanie Kaplan

Timea Suto

Improving IGF inclusivity and participation

Stabilizing IGF’s institutional foundation

While Kaplan emphasizes improving inclusivity and participation in the IGF, Suto focuses on addressing institutional challenges such as understaffing and underfunding.

Unexpected Differences

Overall Assessment

summary

The main areas of disagreement revolve around the specific priorities for improving the IGF and the focus of multi-stakeholder involvement.

difference_level

The level of disagreement among the speakers is relatively low. Most speakers share similar overarching goals for the IGF and internet governance, with differences primarily in emphasis and specific approaches. This low level of disagreement suggests a generally unified vision for the future of internet governance, which could facilitate more effective collaboration and progress in addressing challenges and implementing improvements.

Partial Agreements

All speakers agree on the importance of multi-stakeholder involvement in internet governance, but they emphasize different aspects: Kaplan focuses on general stakeholder input, Suto highlights the IGF’s role in facilitating dialogue, and Morenets specifically advocates for youth integration in policy development.

Melanie Kaplan

Timea Suto

Yuliya Morenets

Supporting multi-stakeholder input in policy discussions

IGF as platform for inclusive dialogue on internet governance

Integrating youth perspectives in policy development

Similar Viewpoints

Both speakers advocate for an open, global, and interoperable internet, emphasizing the importance of multi-stakeholder input in shaping internet governance policies.

Melanie Kaplan

Timea Suto

Supporting multi-stakeholder input in policy discussions

Business advocacy for open and resilient internet

Both speakers emphasize the importance of capacity building and leadership development for underrepresented groups (youth and developing countries) in internet governance.

Yuliya Morenets

Craig Stanley-Adamson

Reinforcing youth capacities in internet governance

IGF as venue for developing country leadership

Key Takeaways

The IGF has been successful in promoting a multi-stakeholder approach to internet governance

The IGF has served as an important platform for inclusive dialogue on internet issues

Youth participation and perspectives have become increasingly important in the IGF

The IGF has played a key role in developing leadership from developing countries

The future of the IGF is tied to the upcoming WSIS+20 review process

There is a need to strengthen and stabilize the IGF’s institutional foundation

Resolutions and Action Items

Work to secure renewal of the IGF mandate in the WSIS+20 review

Improve IGF inclusivity and participation, particularly from developing countries

Recognize the IGF’s role beyond just internet governance in the WSIS+20 process

Address funding and staffing challenges for the IGF Secretariat

Unresolved Issues

Specific mechanisms to improve IGF funding and staffing

How to concretely integrate IGF outcomes into policy processes

Balancing different stakeholder interests in internet governance

Addressing potential internet fragmentation while respecting national policies

Suggested Compromises

Recognizing both the IGF’s achievements and areas for improvement

Balancing the need for stable IGF funding with maintaining its independence

Integrating youth perspectives while ensuring experienced voices are also heard

IGF provides an excellent platform on an annual basis to sort of pull all these threads together. And as Yoichi was mentioning in his introduction, we do really see that this… This is a pivotal time for the IGF, with the GDC’s adoption that just happened at the Summit for the Future, and as we’re sort of in the outset of the WSIS Plus 20 overall review.

speaker

Melanie Kaplan

reason

This comment highlights the critical role of IGF in synthesizing various internet governance discussions and frames the current moment as pivotal for IGF’s future.

impact

It set the tone for discussing IGF’s importance and future challenges, leading to further exploration of IGF’s achievements and potential improvements.

We do have a lot of challenges that we need to address, both as an international community and then the IGF itself. In the context that we are in today, and Melanie also you alluded to that, it’s an ever-changing world. And right now in digital and other conversations, I think the fundamental challenge, one of it is bridging the digital divide.

speaker

Timea Suto

reason

This comment introduces the critical challenge of the digital divide and frames it within the context of a rapidly changing digital landscape.

impact

It shifted the discussion towards concrete challenges facing IGF and the broader internet governance community, prompting others to consider specific areas for improvement.

I think the major achievement of the IGF is actually the presence and the recognition itself of the community, of the young people, and of the future leaders. And actually, the existence of the youth track itself in the program of the IGF.

speaker

Yuliya Morenets

reason

This comment highlights the importance of youth involvement in internet governance, which had not been prominently discussed before.

impact

It introduced a new perspective on IGF’s achievements and prompted discussion about the role of youth in shaping the future of internet governance.

We really see the multi-stakeholder approach to internet governance as indispensable for the internet’s success as a global platform for communications, commerce, and innovation.

speaker

Melanie Kaplan

reason

This comment emphasizes the crucial importance of the multi-stakeholder model, which is a fundamental principle of IGF.

impact

It reinforced the importance of maintaining and strengthening the multi-stakeholder approach in future internet governance discussions.

I think we need to secure renewal of its mandates. That’s the first step in the WSIS plus 20 review. Secondly, I think we need to make sure that the IGF is recognized in these roles that it’s playing, not only for internet governance, but also for the various issues that you’ve mentioned from connectivity to other substantive issues that it can contribute to.

speaker

Timea Suto

reason

This comment provides concrete suggestions for supporting IGF’s future role and expanding its mandate.

impact

It moved the discussion from general praise of IGF to specific actions that could be taken to strengthen its position, prompting others to consider practical steps forward.

Overall Assessment

These key comments shaped the discussion by highlighting IGF’s critical role in internet governance, emphasizing the challenges it faces (particularly the digital divide), introducing the importance of youth involvement, reinforcing the value of the multi-stakeholder model, and proposing concrete steps to strengthen IGF’s future. The discussion evolved from general praise of IGF to a more nuanced exploration of its achievements, challenges, and potential future directions. This progression allowed for a comprehensive examination of IGF’s past, present, and future, while also considering the broader context of global digital cooperation and governance.

How can we secure renewal of the IGF’s mandate in the WSIS+20 review?

speaker

Timea Suto

explanation

This is crucial for ensuring the continuation of the IGF and its role in internet governance.

How can we improve the IGF to make it more inclusive and participatory?

speaker

Melanie Kaplan

explanation

Enhancing inclusivity and participation is key to strengthening the IGF’s effectiveness and relevance.

How can we address the funding issues of the IGF?

speaker

Melanie Kaplan

explanation

Stable funding is essential for the IGF’s operations and long-term sustainability.

How can we stabilize the IGF’s institutional structure, including its secretariat?

speaker

Timea Suto

explanation

A stable institutional structure is necessary for the IGF to fulfill its functions effectively.

How can we provide consistent and stable support and resources to youth communities involved in the IGF?

speaker

Yuliya Morenets

explanation

Supporting youth involvement is crucial for the future of internet governance and the IGF’s continued relevance.

How can we reinforce capacities in the multi-stakeholder model, particularly for youth communities?

speaker

Yuliya Morenets

explanation

Building capacity in the multi-stakeholder model is important for effective participation and representation.

How can the IGF continue to have tangible outputs and impacts, particularly in implementing WSIS+20 and the Global Digital Compact?

speaker

Craig Stanley-Adamson

explanation

Ensuring the IGF’s continued relevance and impact is important for its future role in internet governance.

Summary

This discussion focused on ethical procurement in the digital age, presented by Sam Achampong from the Chartered Institute of Procurement and Supply (CIPS). Achampong emphasized that despite technological advancements, fraud and corruption in procurement remain significant issues, costing about 6% of global GDP. He defined fraud as misleading for financial gain, bribery as offering something of value to influence decisions, and corruption as misusing one’s position for unfair advantage.

The presentation outlined various types of procurement fraud, including personal interest, undisclosed interests, and specification abuse. Achampong stressed the importance of organizations assessing their risk of fraud and corruption through a seven-step process, including establishing anti-corruption policies, identifying risks, and developing action plans. He highlighted the need for clear organizational policies on gifts, conflicts of interest, and whistleblowing.

Achampong emphasized the importance of senior leadership in creating an ethical culture and the need for regular compliance training. He also discussed the importance of having a clear response plan for when fraud is suspected or discovered, including steps for investigation and potential sanctions. The presentation concluded with a quiz testing participants’ understanding of key concepts related to fraud, corruption, and ethical procurement practices.

Keypoints

Major discussion points:

– Defining fraud, bribery, and corruption in procurement

– The scale and impact of fraud/corruption globally

– Steps to assess and mitigate fraud/corruption risks in organizations

– Creating anti-corruption policies and procedures

– Importance of training, monitoring, and having response plans

Overall purpose:

The goal was to educate the audience on ethical issues in procurement, particularly how technology does not eliminate fraud/corruption risks. The speaker aimed to define key concepts and provide practical steps for organizations to mitigate these risks.

Tone:

The overall tone was informative and educational. The speaker maintained a professional but accessible tone throughout, using examples to illustrate concepts. The tone became slightly more interactive during the quiz portion at the end, as the speaker engaged the audience with questions.

Speakers

– Sam Achampong

Role: Regional Director of CIPS Asia, Middle East and Africa

Expertise: Procurement and supply chain, ethics in procurement

– Lubna Al Mohammedi

Role: Head of Operation of the Chartered Institution of Procurement and Supply Chain (CIPS)

Additional speakers:

– None identified

Ethical Procurement in the Digital Age: Challenges and Strategies

This comprehensive discussion on ethical procurement in the digital era was led by Sam Achampong, Regional Director of CIPS Asia, Middle East and Africa, following an introduction by Lubna Al Mohammedi. The presentation addressed the persistent challenges of fraud and corruption in procurement, despite technological advancements, and their significant economic impacts.

Defining Key Concepts and Scale of the Problem

Achampong began by defining key terms:

• Fraud: Misleading another party for financial gain

• Bribery: Offering something of value to influence decisions

• Corruption: Misusing one’s position for unfair advantage

The discussion highlighted the alarming prevalence and cost of these issues:

• Approximately 6% of global GDP is lost to fraud and corruption

• Nearly half of surveyed individuals reported experiencing fraud or corruption in the past two years

• Over 10% of respondents indicated that fraud or corruption scenarios are commonplace in organisations

Types of Procurement Fraud

Several common types of procurement fraud were outlined:

1. Personal interest: Using company funds for personal purchases

2. Undisclosed interests: Awarding contracts to companies with personal connections

3. Variation abuse: Submitting artificially low bids, then increasing prices through variations

4. Specification abuse: Tailoring specifications to favour specific suppliers

5. Bid rigging: Collusion among bidders to manipulate the bidding process

6. False invoicing: Submitting invoices for goods or services not delivered

Notably, 80% of procurement fraud occurs at the specification stage, before data enters digital systems, challenging the notion that technology alone can prevent unethical behaviour.

Risk Assessment and Mitigation

Achampong presented a comprehensive approach to mitigating risks:

1. Assess organizational risk through a seven-step process, available on the CIPS website (www.cips.org)

2. Understand the concepts of inherent risk (before controls) and residual risk (after controls)

3. Develop action plans for unaddressed risks

4. Implement monitoring plans and determine risk tolerance

5. Provide regular compliance training and auditing, noting legal requirements in some countries

6. Establish clear policies on gifts, conflicts of interest, and whistleblowing

7. Implement procurement best practices, including segregation of duties

The importance of organizational culture and country-specific factors in risk mitigation was emphasized. Achampong stressed the role of senior leadership in fostering an ethical culture and the need for stringent recruitment processes to prevent introducing risks through new hires.

Contract Management Cycle and Fraud Prevention

The presentation highlighted how fraud can occur at various stages of the contract management cycle, from needs identification to contract closure. Understanding these vulnerabilities is crucial for implementing effective preventive measures.

Responding to Fraud Allegations

Achampong outlined key elements of an effective response plan:

• Establish a clear process for reporting suspected fraud

• Outline steps for investigations and designate responsible parties

• Establish sanctions for proven allegations

• Protect whistleblowers and allow anonymous reporting

The importance of a robust whistleblowing policy was emphasized as a critical tool for uncovering and addressing unethical practices.

Technology’s Role in Procurement Ethics

While technology provides transparency and helps address some issues, Achampong noted that it doesn’t entirely prevent unethical behavior. This insight highlights the complex interplay between technology and human factors in maintaining ethical procurement practices.

Interactive Learning

The presentation concluded with a quiz based on real ethics examination questions, reinforcing key concepts and encouraging audience engagement.

Conclusion

Achampong’s presentation provided a comprehensive overview of the challenges and strategies in ethical procurement for the digital age. By emphasizing both human elements and technological considerations, the discussion offered a nuanced perspective on maintaining ethical standards in modern procurement practices. The presentation underscored the ongoing need for vigilance, training, and robust systems to combat fraud and corruption in the procurement process.

Lubna Al Mohammedi: Assalamu alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh. Sabah al-khair. My name is Lubna al-Mohammadi. I’m the head of operation of the Chartered Institution of Procurement and Supply Chain, SIPS. Today, we have a critical subject regarding ethics. So under the title of ethics, ethical procurement in the digital age, we have Mr. Sam Achampang, the Regional Director of SIPS Asia, Middle East and Africa. So let’s start this presentation. Thank you.

Sam Achampong: Thank you, Lubna. Good morning and welcome to you all. A pleasure to be here, to those here and to those online, of course. As Lubna said, from SIPS, we work globally on procurement and supply chain matters. And today, we’re going to talk about ethics. Why are we talking about ethics? The main reason is because in a forum like this, in a technology-based forum, we realize that there is a perception that technology provides transparency that eradicates issues of ethics or corruption. Because we have a system and you take away the human element, there’s a perception that you eradicate that behavior. And of course you do. There’s a lot of good things in relation to technology and the Internet that allow us to provide transparency around transactions, especially in procurement, because procurement is when you are buying things for your company. However, what I’m going to point out is some of the ways in which we can try and avoid those ethical situations or certainly mitigate against them. And the reason why we’re attacking this subject is basically this comment saying, does technology by itself prevent unethical behavior? And we as an institute know that actually it doesn’t entirely, because as this quote at the top there says, 80% of fraud within procurement, within buying things, is carried out at what we call the specification stage. In other words, before you input your specification or your procurement into a purchase order and things along those lines, those behaviors can have already taken place. So it’s still very important that we understand some of the issues. As an introduction, here we just talk about the fact that despite digital interventions, the issues of fraud and corruption unfortunately are growing. So social media, technology platforms are not eradicating that. It’s actually growing. And what COVID, the pandemic, pointed out was that actually there are additional vulnerabilities due to the fact that people are using more and more digital platforms. So it’s not less, it’s more, which is quite surprising. So out of this, what we’re going to cover are these main points. We’re going to talk about, first of all, we’re going to define what fraud and corruption is. Because many people think, have different views, but we’re going to define what I mean by fraud and corruption first. What are the implications? But importantly, the practical steps in trying to avoid that. That’s really what we’re here to do today. Just to put into perspective as to why we think this is important is that fraud and corruption in itself costs 6% of global GDP. So if you imagine what we’re talking, we’re talking about trillions of dollars. That’s what the implications of fraud cost to us as human beings across the world. And almost half of the people who were surveyed in the survey that we carried out, almost half of these people acknowledged that they had experienced fraud or corruption in the last two years. Which is quite staggering. As well as more than 10% of people saying that these kind of scenarios of fraud and corruption are commonplace, are normal in organizations that they’re aware about. So that’s the scale of the problem. But let’s just define what I mean by fraud. That’s the important thing. So fraud is when you mislead another party for financial gain. That’s the definition of fraud. Bribery is when you give something of value to somebody because you want to influence them. So we’re being quite straight here. And corruption is when you use your position to gain credibility or to gain an advantage, an unfair advantage. So those are three definitions, just so we’re all on the same page here. Those are the definitions of fraud, corruption and bribery. To mitigate against fraud and corruption, there are lots of laws and legislations around the world. So here in the Kingdom, there is the Royal Decree. That’s the latest decree related to fraud and corruption. That’s here to mitigate it. If you look at other parts of the world, in the UK, from where I’m from, for example, you have the UK Bribery Act. So these are the laws that are here to protect people and here to mitigate against some of the issues that are happening. So that’s what we have around the world. And there are lots of other pieces of legislation to also help to combat some of these issues. And when you look at the actual types of fraud in relation to procurement. Now, when I mean procurement, I’m specifically talking about when you are buying things, buying goods or services for your company. So whenever I say procurement, I’m specifically saying that when you’re buying goods or services for your company. So procurement fraud can happen in many different ways. These are some of the examples. And the definition of those examples are, for example, personal interest. What does that mean? That means that I’m purchasing items for my organization for my own use. So I use the company money to buy, instead of buying a laptop, I buy an Apple iMac. That’s for me. I know it’s not for the company. And undisclosed interest. So maybe you have an interest in an organization and you then give that organization a contract. That’s undisclosed interest. You have to, there’s nothing wrong with doing that, but you just have to be clear to acknowledge that. Yes, I have an interest in this company. So everybody is aware. Receiving gifts, undeclared gifts, travel, entertainment, etc. Where suppliers work with each other to allow each other to win contracts. That’s also another issue. And variation abuse is interesting. So variation abuse is where companies bid for a contract at a very low price. And throughout the course of the contract, they will keep issuing variations to get more money out of it. So they won’t declare the initial price. They’ll keep saying, oh, and if you want this, okay, you ordered a pen. But if you want ink, that’s more money. That sort of thing. That’s variation abuse. And contract specification. Of course, contract specification abuse is where an organization or an individual will ensure that the specification favors a specific company. So your company have asked you to buy a car, but the specification you put out says it has to be a BMW, has to have these wheels. Only BMW can provide that car. So that’s specification abuse. When actually you should say, we will buy a car, has to have four wheels, has to be able to travel at this speed. But if you specify certain things, then that’s specification abuse. So what do we do? So there are a few ways to get over that, and one of them is to assess the risk in your own organization. And there are various steps. And by the way, these slides will become available to everybody, so you won’t digest everything now. But there are seven steps in which you can assess the risk within your organization to prevent some of these things happening. First is to establish the process. So you need to have a workshop. You need to set up what’s called an anti-corruption policy. And with all the people within your organization, so that everybody understands some of the things I’m talking about today. Once you’ve done that, when you’re identifying the risks, these are some of the kind of questions you’d ask. What arrangements do you have in place? How could corruption occur in your organization? That’s what you need to assess. Where does the risk lie? And which locations within the organization are these issues likely to happen? Is it in the warehouse? Is it in HR? These sorts of things are what you need to think about at that point. And then you need to rate something called the inherent risk. Now, this is quite detailed, and I won’t go into too much detail. But the inherent risk is the risk relating to the impact it could have. So there’s a tool that’s provided. And within SIPs, within the SIPs website, you can go to www.cips.org. You can find this framework. And that can help you assess what the inherent risk is. So what you look at is, if you look at, for example, bribery of tax authorities. If you want to assess how important it is to deal with this, what you do is you say, what’s the probable impact? If somebody in your organization bribed the tax authorities, the impact is very high. But what is the probability of it happening? very low. So what you do is you would say right it’s very very low the chances of it happening right because that is very unlikely that somebody can bribe the tax authorities you know go sees a cat is very unlikely but if it did happen the impact will be high so in that particular thing the inherent risk is yellow so that’s how you kind of make the assessment as you go along as an example and then you need to look at the controls what do you have in place to prevent certain things happening so what you do is you calculate what’s called the residual risk so what that means is if there is if there is a medium when you look at the controls you have in place the controls will be medium if the rigid if the residual risk is medium however if that changes if you have strong mitigating controls then the residual risk the risk remaining that the risk of its happening will then be low okay if you have strong controls but if your controls are very weak then the residual risk or the remaining risk becomes high so that’s the kind of framework you use right so that and that kind of brushes it over in in in quite a high in quite a quite a speedy fashion however that’s the principle behind it all and of course you can go into detail on this week we can share that with you so once you’ve done that you need to you need to develop a an action plan or a response plan so any risk that has not been dealt with within your organization you have to say we haven’t dealt with this what’s our action plan what are we going to do about it at that point and then once you’ve done that you need to make sure that you have a monitoring plan to make sure that you’re you’re monitoring all these risks identifying any trigger and also what the risk importantly what the risk tolerance of your organization is that’s the important thing okay how tolerant are you of risk in the organization or of risk occurrence or fraud occurrence in your organization and different organizations will have different tolerance levels and that’s important it all depends on your organization and what you do okay if you’re a government institution your tolerance level will be very very high why because it’s public money you’re dealing with okay so if you’re a private organization that may be slightly different so the tolerance level is very very important also your organizational culture will play a big part in in preventing risks happening okay so obviously in in this subject in terms of fraud senior leadership and their culture are very very key to what happens in your organizations of what the residual risk is which country urine will also define what the residual risks are as well because the framework of the country you’re in may either help or hinder how you’re dealing with ethical issues and that can that could differ around the world your organization if you provide regular compliance training regular monitoring and auditing and ensure that all visuals can report inappropriate behavior in in an appropriate way then that will also influence how your organization deals with it okay so if for example there is there’s a lot of inappropriate behavior happening in organization but there’s no way that people can report it then that’s going to influence how often these kind of things happen and recruitment this is quite interesting because every time you bring someone into the into your organization that’s good but it’s also a risk okay because you because you don’t know these people yet all right so recruitment becomes an area that you actually need to ensure is very very stringent in terms of mitigating risks so company checks not just on the on the character of the individual but what what undisclosed holdings do these people have you know if you operate a car company and you bring somebody in who actually their father owns a company that provides parts for cars you need to know that okay because because that’s an undisclosed holding and that could be a problem further down the line so these things are important to know obviously reference checks and criminal record checks are important these are basic but let’s be honest you have to do these things because otherwise you’re leaving yourselves open to risk training is essential obviously you can’t assume that people are are aware of some of the issues we’re talking about you know ethics fraud corruption are a very sensitive subject okay because you know if you say to anybody will you commit fraud of course they’re gonna say no okay but that’s not training is it you haven’t trained them about anything you have to actually define what you mean by fraud it could be it could be conflict of interest okay no one not many people deliberately go out and defraud a company actually the majority of people it’s really a conflict of interest it’s undisclosed holdings there’s things along those lines so you have to train people as to what exactly you’re speaking about to make sure you don’t get in that situation and as it says there in some countries training is actually a legal requirement for employees for certain things certainly in the UK it’s a legal requirement to train people on these things and on some other things legal requirement which means the company will be in trouble if they haven’t trained people so there are other areas when you’re putting together your policy and procedure you need to look at any any legislation that applies in whatever country if you’re a company working across the world you need to look at every country working to make sure what you’re complying with the legislation in that regard it needs to be clear who the policy applies to it may not apply to some employees people need to know what their duties are the company needs to have a clear statement that there’s zero tolerance around around whistleblowing so if somebody reports something how will it be dealt with that’s an important thing as well we spoke about reporting spoke about gifts there’s nothing wrong with receiving gifts from from supplies there’s actually in that that itself is not fraud there just needs to be rules about what you can do and if you’re in in in the process of purchasing something from a company and on that day when they’re giving them your price their price they also give you a gift that’s obviously a bit of an issue because whether you like it or not as human beings psychologically that makes a difference to how you’re going to evaluate that so it just needs to be trained these things have to be explicit so that everybody is aware of what the implications are conflicts of interest we mentioned and monitoring as well our issues so once all those things have been taken into account these things will definitely avoid any misunderstanding of what we’re talking about when we talk about fraud corruption okay it’s not just people wanted to take money there are there are areas that can that can get people in trouble when you do the investigation later so it’s best to avoid them and avoid innocent transactions being constituted as fraud so as far as procurement is concerned there is as an organization you need to make sure you have things like segregation of duties the same person doesn’t award contracts as the same person awards contracts can’t be the same person who pays the contractor things along those lines that may sound obvious but in some organization that happens so I select the supplier I also pay them I also approve their payment these kind of things shouldn’t happen that’s called segregation again all these things need to be looked into very in a very detailed manner that is a is a detailed section of what we call the contract management cycle that looks at the risks that happen in every single stage of when you’re buying something and that and it becomes quite complicated because fraud and corruption can happen when you when you’re defining a business need it can happen when you’re putting a strategy together can happen when you’re putting tender documents together can happen when you’re managing the supplies performance can happen in several ways so again it’s worth having that in front of you to understand where these issues can occur so so in the event that it is found out or there’s a suspicion that there is fraud within your organization there needs everyone needs to understand exactly what’s going to happen that can’t be a surprise that the process for reporting suspected fraud is there the steps that will be taken in other words if there’s an investigation how does that investigation happen we can’t make it up afterwards they these steps need to be written who’s going to carry out that investigation who’s the person within an organization or people who will investigate these things are they independent enough to do that and also finally if allegations are proven what happens what is the sanction for for somebody who is found guilty of fraud or investigation of fraud or corruption in an organization that needs to be clear are there any sanctions is it disciplinary is it gross misconduct misconduct is it a warning that needs to be clear in your in your organization before you do that so so those are the main things all organizations these have a response plan it needs to be independent people need to be trained and there needs to be support for whistleblowers people who are willing to report things anonymously okay they need to be protected you can’t encourage people to report these things and then disclose their name and say this guy told me that you’ve done this that that that that disrupts the integrity of the whole process so just to summarize before I get some quick questions for you guys there are some questions for everybody so pay attention going through that you will be able to define exactly what fraud bribery corruption is right What are the implications? What are the steps? And finally, what the key elements of fraud, bribery and corruption are and what the response plan is. These are the bits we went through. But just to check that everybody has been paying attention on this whistle-stop presentation, we are going to have some questions. A little bit of a quiz. And to be transparent, there’s no prize, there’s no money, there’s no chocolates. Just questions, right? Okay, so just to be clear, because I can’t be accused of bribing you to get the right question, right? Anyway, so let’s just go through them. So, question. So, which of the following points describes how you evaluate and prioritize stages of anti-corruption risk assessment? Quite a difficult question, I know. But what do you reckon? What does anyone think? Just one, two, three or four. I’ll give you some time. Anyone want to just hazard a guess? Okay, take a look at the risk factors, likelihood of occurrence and potential adverse impacts. Good one. Anyone else before I check? Same. Very close. Very close. By the way, for what I’ve been through in the last 20 minutes, this is quite difficult. This is the actual extract from the ethics examination. So, it’s not been changed. So, you’re doing very well. And they’re quite tricky, these questions. You know, people who go through that receive the ethical, the global ethical kite marks. So, these are real extracts. So, they’re not easy. So, and each question, each answer is quite similar. So, just bear that in mind. The next one. So, a director working has just returned from a disciplinary hearing regarding a member of staff. Which step of a response plan should the director now pursue to help prevent reoccurrence? So, how could they, what would they do to stop this issue happening again? Two things. Okay, three and sure. Yep. Three. Yep. And another one. Okay. So, two and three. Okay, cool. Anyone else? Two and three. Oh, dear. So, yeah. So, quite so, yeah. So, basically, what we’re saying is, the two important things are to, once the case has happened, to look at what happened. So, review the case and redo a risk assessment to try and see how it’s not going to happen again. Two and three actually are correct, right? But very, very similar. But basically, what you’re talking about is what the two most important things to look at. So, again, as I say, very, very, very, very close. Very, very, very, very tricky. These are tricky questions, right? Okay. Okay. So, which organization launched the set of anti-corruption initiatives to help countries address corruption? Now, I didn’t talk about this in the presentation, by the way. So, you can have a guess at this in case you know this yourself. So, it’s the MSF, Medicine Frontier Bank Information Office, or Financial Ombudsman Service. So, which organization launched the anti-corruption initiatives to help countries address corruption? Three, Information Commission. Anyone else? MSF, okay. Any others? It’s actually the World Bank. Yeah. So, I guess the clue here is globalization. So, it’s, you know, I guess we’re talking about corruption and we’re talking about the world. So, the difficulty here is that this is a UK-based one. This is a US-based one, so it’s not global. Okay. That’s global, but they’re more medical. They’re more medical. So, the World Bank is the one that looks at banking issues. Question four. Part of risk assessment for fraud includes the following. Which is the relevant step? Quite a difficult one. I’ll kind of go through that. Rate the inherent risk. We spoke about this in the course, but actually it’s not very clear. But the most relevant step is to rate the inherent risk. And the inherent risk is what the risk is left after you’ve taken all the actions that you need to take. So, this is the risk that remains having done what you need to do. Five more. What’s the best method for mitigating risks within an organization? Okay. So, you need to choose one out of this. So, do you say one? Okay. Okay. Two. Anyone else have the one or two? Four. Two. One, two, four. One, two, four. It’s three. No, not really. Four. So, there you go. Yeah. I think what we’re saying here is that, look, if you don’t have this culture from the top, then it’s not going to work. It doesn’t make any difference. This culture has to come from the very top of the organization. Which of the following statements explains the term conflict of interest? Conflict of interest. Two. Two. Good one. Any others for two? Two. Two. Absolutely. Of course, it is two. The longest statement. Which organizations should have a formal whistleblowing policy? Now, whistleblowing policy is where you encourage people to report things anonymously. Okay. So, what type of organization should have a whistleblowing policy? Sorry. I said which. Why should organizations have a whistleblowing policy? Sorry. Apologies. Why should they? One, two, three, four. Anybody? Four. Okay. Four. Four. There you go. Okay. Number eight. A procurement person is carrying out a review to look at anti-bribery policies. Which two statements are correct in relation to bribery? Two statements. Which of two statements relate to bribery? Anyone? Two statements. One and four. One and four. One and four. Anybody? One and four. One and four. There you go. One and four. There you go. Number nine. A contractor submits multiple invoices for work they only did once. So, they’ve done work once but they’ve sent four invoices. Somebody internally could help them to do this. What type of procurement fraud is this defined as? So, a contractor sends multiple invoices for something they’ve done once. What type of fraud is that? Okay. One. Anybody else? Four. Sorry. Five. Sorry. Five. Yeah. One. Five. Okay. There you go. We have a procurement person in here. Billing. Yeah. So, in this case, yes. They’ve sent in the invoice and it’s billing fraud, right? You bill once. You’ve done work once. You bill once. Which of the two are implications of unethical practices? Things that can actually happen when you have unethical practice. Two things. Does it affect money? Does it affect your brand? Does it make your organization grow too fast or does it make you have more job applicants? Which of the two things happen when you have unethical practices in your organization? First two. One and two. One and two. One and two. One and two. One and two. One and two. There you go. Oh, we have another one. Sorry. Which of the following defines fraud? I think, sorry, we have 12 questions. Apologies. How would you define fraud? So, personal and corporate rules. Deception. Dishonest and fraudulent conduct by those in power. Or offering an incentive for somebody to act improperly. One, two, three, four. Two. Two. There you go. I think we’re unanimous on two. And 12. You’re a member of an evaluation team. So, you have a bid coming in. You are part of a team who are deciding who’s involved in that bid. Which is correct in terms of your conflict of interest. So, your best friend works in a bidding organization. They’re no relation. But it still needs to be reported. You still need to report that your friend is the bidder. Or you’re a director in one of the organizations. Or a very distant cousin who works in the bidding organization. Do you have to report that? Or your next door neighbor. So, which statement is correct in terms of how you need to do your conflict of interest? Anyone? One, two, three, four. First one. Anyone else? Number one. Number one. There you go. Cool. Ah, okay. We do have 14. Sorry. A procurement officer works for a small company. Ah, you’ve been supplied with a laptop. You get a laptop from your company and you sell it. And you take the money. How’s that defined? Is that ethics, kickback, fraud or bribery? One, two, four. Okay, poor ethics, fraud, within the depth, it’s also poor ethics by the way, these are quite close. There you go, so thank you very much guys, that was not a test, not a real test, we did it together. I hope you found it interesting, as I said you can get full details from our website, that’s a very quick overview of quite a detailed global test that people take and they get certificates for it. So thanks for listening, hope you enjoyed it, take care, enjoy the rest of the day. Thank you. We will appreciate that. Thank you very much.

Agreement Points

Definitions of fraud, bribery, and corruption

speakers

Sam Achampong

arguments

Fraud is misleading another party for financial gain

Bribery is giving something of value to influence someone

Corruption is using one’s position for unfair advantage

summary

Sam Achampong provides clear definitions for fraud, bribery, and corruption, emphasizing their distinct characteristics in unethical business practices.

Prevalence and impact of fraud and corruption

speakers

Sam Achampong

arguments

Fraud and corruption cost 6% of global GDP

Nearly half of surveyed people experienced fraud/corruption in last 2 years

Over 10% say fraud/corruption scenarios are commonplace in organizations

summary

Achampong highlights the significant economic impact and widespread occurrence of fraud and corruption in organizations globally.

Types of procurement fraud

speakers

Sam Achampong

arguments

Personal interest: purchasing items for personal use with company funds

Undisclosed interest: awarding contracts to companies one has interest in

Variation abuse: bidding low then issuing variations to increase price

Specification abuse: tailoring specifications to favor specific suppliers

summary

Achampong outlines various types of procurement fraud, including misuse of company funds, conflicts of interest, and manipulative bidding practices.

Mitigating fraud and corruption risks

speakers

Sam Achampong

arguments

Assess organizational risk through a 7-step process

Develop action plans for unaddressed risks

Implement monitoring plans and determine risk tolerance

Provide regular compliance training and auditing

Establish clear policies on gifts, conflicts of interest

summary

Achampong recommends a comprehensive approach to mitigating fraud and corruption risks, including risk assessment, action planning, monitoring, training, and clear policies.

Responding to fraud allegations

speakers

Sam Achampong

arguments

Have a clear process for reporting suspected fraud

Outline steps for investigations and who will conduct them

Establish sanctions for proven allegations

Protect whistleblowers and allow anonymous reporting

summary

Achampong emphasizes the importance of having clear procedures for reporting, investigating, and addressing fraud allegations, as well as protecting those who report such issues.

Similar Viewpoints

Unexpected Consensus

Overall Assessment

Summary

The presentation by Sam Achampong covers comprehensive aspects of ethics in procurement, including definitions of unethical practices, their prevalence and impact, types of procurement fraud, risk mitigation strategies, and response procedures for fraud allegations.

Consensus level

As this is a single-speaker presentation, there is no consensus to assess among multiple speakers. However, the speaker presents a coherent and consistent view on the importance of addressing fraud and corruption in procurement practices, emphasizing the need for clear definitions, risk assessment, and robust organizational policies and procedures.

Different Viewpoints

Unexpected Differences

Overall Assessment

summary

No significant areas of disagreement identified

difference_level

Low to none. The presentation was primarily informative, given by a single speaker, without contrasting viewpoints or debates.

Partial Agreements

Similar Viewpoints

Key Takeaways

Technology alone does not prevent unethical behavior in procurement

Fraud and corruption remain significant issues, costing 6% of global GDP

Common types of procurement fraud include personal interest, undisclosed interest, and specification abuse

Organizations should assess risks, implement clear policies, and provide training to mitigate fraud risks

A formal process for reporting and investigating fraud allegations is crucial

Leadership and organizational culture play a key role in preventing fraud and corruption

Resolutions and Action Items

Organizations should establish an anti-corruption policy and conduct risk assessment workshops

Implement a 7-step process to assess fraud risks within the organization

Develop action plans for unaddressed risks and implement monitoring plans

Provide regular compliance training and auditing for employees

Establish clear policies on gifts, conflicts of interest, and whistleblowing

Unresolved Issues

Specific methods to address fraud in the digital age were not fully explored

The effectiveness of existing anti-corruption laws and regulations was not discussed in depth

The role of technology in detecting and preventing fraud was not fully addressed

Suggested Compromises

None identified

80% of fraud within procurement, within buying things, is carried out at what we call the specification stage. In other words, before you input your specification or your procurement into a purchase order and things along those lines, those behaviors can have already taken place.

speaker

Sam Achampong

reason

This comment challenges the common perception that digital systems automatically prevent fraud. It highlights that unethical behavior often occurs before data even enters the system.

impact

This set the tone for the entire presentation, emphasizing the need to look beyond just technological solutions to address ethics in procurement.

Despite digital interventions, the issues of fraud and corruption unfortunately are growing. So social media, technology platforms are not eradicating that. It’s actually growing.

speaker

Sam Achampong

reason

This insight contradicts the expectation that increased digitalization would reduce fraud and corruption. It suggests the problem is more complex than simply implementing new technologies.

impact

This comment likely shifted participants’ perspectives on the relationship between technology and ethics, prompting deeper consideration of human factors in fraud prevention.

Fraud is when you mislead another party for financial gain. That’s the definition of fraud. Bribery is when you give something of value to somebody because you want to influence them. So we’re being quite straight here. And corruption is when you use your position to gain credibility or to gain an advantage, an unfair advantage.

speaker

Sam Achampong

reason

These clear definitions provide a foundation for understanding the nuances between different types of unethical behavior in procurement.

impact

This likely improved the audience’s ability to recognize and categorize various unethical practices, setting the stage for more nuanced discussion of prevention strategies.

Every time you bring someone into the into your organization that’s good but it’s also a risk okay because you because you don’t know these people yet all right so recruitment becomes an area that you actually need to ensure is very very stringent in terms of mitigating risks

speaker

Sam Achampong

reason

This insight highlights an often overlooked aspect of risk management in organizations – the recruitment process itself as a potential source of risk.

impact

This likely broadened participants’ understanding of where ethical risks can originate in an organization, potentially leading to discussion of more comprehensive risk management strategies.

Overall Assessment

These key comments shaped the discussion by challenging common assumptions about technology and ethics in procurement, providing clear definitions of key concepts, and highlighting often overlooked sources of risk. They likely shifted the audience’s perspective from viewing ethics as primarily a technological challenge to understanding it as a complex interplay of human factors, organizational processes, and technological systems. This more nuanced view set the stage for a deeper exploration of practical strategies for ethical procurement in the digital age.