Cybercrime Has Real Victims

22 Jan 2026 10:00h - 10:30h

Session at a glance

Summary

This discussion at Davos focused on the growing threat of cyber fraud, which has evolved beyond simple financial theft to encompass human trafficking and tech-enabled coercion on an industrial scale. The panelists, including officials from Thailand, Interpol, the U.S. government, and International Justice Mission, emphasized that Southeast Asia has become the epicenter of these operations, with hundreds of thousands of people involved and billions of dollars at stake. Minister Sihasak Phuangketkeow from Thailand highlighted how these operations have transformed from small-scale activities into major industries that now challenge state authority, similar to drug cartels in Latin America.

Secretary Valdecy Urquiza from Interpol explained that these scam centers are rapidly expanding globally, enabled by digital payment systems, social media platforms, and sophisticated AI technology that makes it increasingly difficult for victims to identify scams. The operations are highly profitable and have reached an estimated scale of $360 billion by 2028. Anne Neuberger emphasized that while the situation is serious, it’s not beyond remedy, noting successful multilateral law enforcement efforts that have taken down hundreds of scammers and recovered hundreds of millions of dollars.

Gary Haugen provided a stark human perspective, describing massive compounds resembling fortified hotels where thousands of trafficked workers are forced to operate 24/7 scam operations under threat of violence. He argued that these facilities represent the operations’ “Achilles heel” because survivors can provide crucial intelligence about the criminal networks. The panelists agreed that effective solutions require unprecedented multilateral cooperation between governments, law enforcement agencies, and private sector platforms, along with rapid information sharing and coordinated enforcement across borders. The discussion concluded that addressing this crisis requires treating it as both a cybersecurity and human rights issue, with survivor protection being essential not only morally but also strategically for gathering intelligence to dismantle these networks.

Keypoints

Major Discussion Points:

– Scale and Evolution of Cyber Fraud Operations: The discussion highlighted how cyber fraud has evolved from small-scale operations to massive industrial-scale scam centers, particularly in Southeast Asia, generating hundreds of billions of dollars annually and involving hundreds of thousands of people across multiple continents.

– Human Trafficking and Worker Exploitation: A critical focus on how these operations involve human trafficking, with workers being lured, coerced, or trafficked into working in compound-like facilities where they face physical abuse, starvation, and are forced to meet quotas while conducting 24/7 scam operations.

– Technology Acceleration and AI Integration: The rapid adoption of advanced technologies, especially AI, by criminal organizations is enabling them to operate at unprecedented scale and sophistication, making it increasingly difficult for victims to identify scams and for authorities to keep pace.

– Need for Multilateral Cooperation: All panelists emphasized that the transnational nature of these operations requires unprecedented international cooperation between law enforcement agencies, governments, and private sector partners, moving beyond traditional border-constrained approaches.

– Physical Inspection as Solution: A unique perspective emerged that international inspection of known scam facilities could be the “Achilles heel” of these operations, as survivors possess crucial intelligence about criminal networks and operations that could lead to accountability.

Overall Purpose:

The discussion aimed to address the growing threat of industrial-scale cyber fraud operations that blend cybercrime with human trafficking. The session sought to explore strategies for disrupting these operations, protecting exploited workers, and building resilience in the digital economy through international cooperation and innovative approaches.

Overall Tone:

The tone began as deeply concerning and urgent, with speakers emphasizing the gravity and scale of the problem. However, it evolved to become more solution-oriented and cautiously optimistic by the end. While acknowledging the serious challenges posed by these operations, panelists expressed confidence that the problem is not insurmountable, particularly highlighting that “we never crossed the point of no return.” The discussion maintained a collaborative spirit throughout, with speakers building on each other’s points and emphasizing shared responsibility for addressing this global challenge.

Speakers

– Jeremy Jurgens: Director of the cyber network forum with responsibility for their center on cyber security (serves as moderator/host)

– Sihasak Phuangketkeow: Minister (representing Thailand’s perspective on cyber-enabled fraud in Southeast Asia)

– Valdecy Urquiza: Secretary at Interpol (representing Interpol’s perspective on global cyber fraud operations)

– Anne Neuberger: Key architect in initiatives on ransomware and cybersecurity (expertise in cross-border cyber threat response)

– Gary A. Haugen: Works with International Justice Mission (IJM), former prosecutor (expertise in human trafficking and justice aspects of cyber fraud operations)

Additional speakers:

None identified beyond the provided speakers names list.

Full session report

Comprehensive Report: Cyber Fraud and Human Trafficking – A Global Crisis Requiring Multilateral Response

Executive Summary

This discussion at Davos addressed the alarming evolution of cyber fraud from small-scale financial crimes into industrial-scale operations that fundamentally blend cybercrime with human trafficking. The panel brought together diverse expertise to examine what has become a crisis threatening both global financial security and human rights, with Southeast Asia emerging as a key epicenter of these operations.

Note: The transcript contains some speaker identification inconsistencies and fragmented responses that may affect attribution accuracy.

Problem Scale and Nature

Industrial-Scale Criminal Operations

Minister Sihasak Phuangketkeow from Thailand provided a stark assessment of how cyber fraud has transformed in Southeast Asia, explaining that these operations have evolved from small-scale activities into major industries. He drew a sobering comparison, warning that without immediate action, the situation could mirror Latin America’s experience with drug cartels, where criminal organizations challenge state authority.

Secretary Valdecy Urquiza from Interpol emphasized that these scam centers are rapidly expanding globally beyond their Southeast Asian origins. He highlighted that the operations have become increasingly profitable due to digital payment systems and social media platforms, with criminal organizations adopting AI and sophisticated technology at unprecedented levels.

Technological Acceleration

A recurring theme was the speed at which criminal organizations are adopting cutting-edge technology. Anne Neuberger noted that criminal organizations are adopting AI and other advanced technologies faster than law enforcement can adapt, creating challenges for victim protection. This technological acceleration includes voice cloning and AI-powered social engineering that makes it increasingly difficult for potential victims to identify scams.

The Human Trafficking Dimension

Reframing the Crisis

Gary A. Haugen from the International Justice Mission provided crucial perspective by reframing the discussion, emphasizing that “this is something that’s no longer just about stolen money. It’s also about stolen lives.” This established that cyber fraud operations now represent a dual-victim situation where both the targets of scams and the workers conducting them are victims.

Haugen described compounds where trafficked workers are held against their will, operating as 24/7 scam operations where workers face physical abuse and are forced to meet quotas under threat of violence. He mentioned estimates of “four or 500” such operations across three countries in the region.

International Trafficking Network

Minister Phuangketkeow explained that workers from Africa, Europe, and other regions are being trafficked into working for these syndicates, demonstrating the truly transnational nature of these enterprises. He noted that these operations function in both ungoverned physical spaces and ungoverned online spaces, making international cooperation essential.

Response Approaches and International Cooperation

Multilateral Law Enforcement

Despite the scale of the problem, Anne Neuberger provided evidence that coordinated international responses can be effective, highlighting successful multilateral law enforcement efforts that have taken down operations worth hundreds of millions of dollars. She emphasized that effective responses require addressing the entire ecosystem rather than individual operations, noting that “when there’s international cooperation between governments and companies, you push back the ungoverned.”

Different Strategic Emphases

While panelists agreed on the need for international cooperation, they emphasized different tactical approaches. Haugen advocated for physical inspection of known scam facilities, arguing this could provide breakthrough evidence and rescue victims. Neuberger emphasized technical cooperation between governments and private platforms, focusing on tracing digital evidence through public-private partnerships.

Building Institutional Capacity

Secretary Urquiza outlined institutional developments, mentioning that Interpol is developing anti-scam centers in multiple countries and implementing a task force specifically for fighting scam centers. The recent signing of the UN Convention on Cybercrime represents progress in establishing legal frameworks for international cooperation.

Minister Phuangketkeow described Thailand’s diplomatic efforts, including organizing international conferences to create coordinated action and embedding US FBI agents with Thai police forces as a model for international cooperation. Thailand has repatriated approximately 10,000 people from these operations.

Current Initiatives and Ongoing Challenges

Concrete Actions Underway

Several initiatives are already in progress: Thailand has organized international conferences to build coalitions, Interpol is establishing anti-scam centers, and new legal frameworks are being implemented. Public-private partnerships with virtual asset service providers and social media platforms are being developed for real-time detection and blocking of fraudulent activities.

Persistent Challenges

The discussion highlighted fundamental challenges including the speed mismatch between criminal adaptation and institutional response capabilities. Criminal organizations can adopt new technologies and relocate operations faster than international institutions can coordinate responses.

Additionally, the recognition that survivors are crucial intelligence assets creates new challenges for protection programs, which must handle large numbers of trafficked individuals while gathering intelligence and protecting them from criminal networks.

Survivor-Centered Intelligence Approach

An important consensus emerged around treating survivors not merely as victims to be rescued, but as crucial intelligence assets. Haugen argued that survivors “possess crucial intelligence about criminal networks and can provide detailed information about operators and methods.” This perspective was embraced by other panelists who recognized that treating survivors properly is both morally correct and strategically essential.

Conclusion

The discussion revealed a crisis that transcends traditional categories of cybercrime or human trafficking, representing a new form of transnational criminal enterprise that exploits technological capabilities and human vulnerabilities simultaneously. While panelists demonstrated consensus on the nature and scale of the problem, they emphasized different tactical approaches for addressing it.

The conversation revealed grounds for optimism, with successful multilateral operations demonstrating that coordinated international responses can be effective. The identification of survivors as crucial intelligence assets provides both moral imperative and strategic advantage.

The most significant insight may be the recognition that this crisis requires treating cybersecurity and human rights as inseparable issues. The dual-victim paradigm demands responses that address both technological vulnerabilities and human exploitation simultaneously. Success will require the unprecedented multilateral cooperation that all panelists endorsed, combined with new forms of international law enforcement that can match the speed and sophistication of modern criminal enterprises.

Session transcript

Jeremy Jurgens

and I’m here to talk about cyber fraud. My name is Gary Haugen. I’m the director of the cyber network forum and have responsibility for our center on cyber security.

Today’s session is looking to address cyber fraud. And this is something that’s no longer just about stolen money. It’s also about stolen lives.

Industrial scale scam centers across the world are blending online fraud with human trafficking and tech-enabled coercion, trapping workers while targeting victims of cyber fraud. Cyber fraud is not just about stealing money. It’s about human trafficking and tech-enabled coercion, trapping workers while targeting victims globally.

This fraud is estimated to already exceed $360 billion by 2028. Today’s session will explore what can be done to disrupt these operations and how we can protect these exploited workers and build resilience in the digital economy and in our society. With me today is Sihasak Phuangketkeow, Anne Neuberger, Sihasak Phuangketkeow, Gary A.

Haugen, Sihasak Phuangketkeow, Now, for today’s session, I would actually like to open up and would enjoy to come first to you, Minister. And recently, we’ve seen the attention that’s been placed on Southeast Asia as a focal point for many of these industrial-scale operations. From Thailand’s perspective, how has cyber-enabled fraud evolved in the region?

And why is it so difficult to contain?

Sihasak Phuangketkeow

Thank you. Thank you very much. You know, my government is very, very concerned because this is a growing challenge.

And as you said, it’s not just about money stolen, but about stolen lives. And unfortunately, Southeast Asia has emerged as the epicenter of these illicit activities. Much of it because of instability.

Much of it is about the lack of rule of law. But my concern is about the magnitude of the challenge. You know, before these were flight-by-night operations, right, now they are major industries.

And many people are involved. Like in the region, the numbers are in the hundreds of thousands. And the people who are involved are coming not from the region, but they’re coming from Africa.

Even in Europe, Central Europe, where there’s a war going on. And last year we had to repatriate 10,000 of these people who have been either lured, coerced, or trafficked into working for these syndicates. And the amount of money involved is mind-blowing.

You know, billions, hundreds of billions of U.S. dollars, you know, whether the revenues that they raise or the money that people have lost. And so we really have to do something about it.

The other concern I have is these crimes have taken on greater speed and more sophistication. They’re utilizing latest technology, especially digital technology and AI. You know, so it’s difficult to keep pace with what, you know, the new technologies being employed.

And my real concern now, of course, is about power. Before, you know, they were evading crackdown by government authorities. But now they’re challenging the power of state authority as well.

And if we don’t do, if we don’t act now, we will have a situation like in Latin America, where you have the drug cartels not just challenging, maybe sometimes being part of state authority. So this is why I’m concerned. And I think we really have to work together to, you know, to take on and tackle and combat this challenge.

Thank you.

Jeremy Jurgens

Great. Thank you, Minister. Secretary, I’d like to come to you next.

And I’d like to understand from Interpol’s perspective, how widespread and also profitable, we heard about the money involved here. What have you seen in terms of how widespread and profitable these operations are? And particularly, how are the networks targeting victims outside the region?

I have to say, you know, before I started looking into this, I wasn’t aware of this kind of cross national aspect, not only on the victims, but as well in the supply chain.

Valdecy Urquiza

Thank you, Jeremy. And good morning, everyone. As the Minister mentioned, this is a high profitable activity, and it is widespread.

We sounded the alarm the first time in 2022 at Interpol, when we have identified the first scam centers operating in a more structured way. And what we see, and this is also based on all the interaction we have with global enforcement, is that what initiated as something located in Southeast Asia, now is also located in different regions of the globe.

And this is expanding, and I don’t believe we’re still seeing the end of this expansion. It’s very profitable, and also there are a few enablers that we observe that have been supporting the expansion of those centers. The first one is the development of the digital means of payment.

So it’s becoming easier for the victims to transfer considerable amounts of funds in real time. And also it’s becoming easier for the criminal organizations to transfer those funds to different jurisdictions. Second, it’s the use of social media and other platforms to advertise on some of those scams, not only targeting the victims of the scams, but also targeting individuals that would be then trafficked to work on those centers.

And finally, Jeremy, and this was mentioned by the minister as well, is the adoption of technology by criminals to conduct their activities, especially with AI. So the level of adoption of AI that we are seeing with those criminal organizations is on levels that we didn’t see before with any other technology. This is helping them operate in a larger scale.

It’s helping them also to become more effective in targeting their victims, and it’s really becoming very difficult for the victims to identify when they are being scammed or when they are being lured to work on those centers.

Jeremy Jurgens

All right, thank you. Anne, we’ve heard here about this risk that these scam operations could actually become at the scale and size that it may actually start to disrupt states. And also on the asymmetry in terms of the capabilities, the speed and agility of these actors relative to both the victims and sometimes those that are trying to intervene.

You’ve been a key architect in a number of initiatives on ransomware, looking at these different vectors. Have we crossed the point of no return?

Anne Neuberger

We never crossed the point of no return. That’s good news. But building on, it’s a wonderful question, right, because as you noted and as the two prior speakers noted, the nature of the threat crosses borders, both in the kinds of individuals who are lured to conduct some of these scams as well as the financial networks and social media networks that are used to move money and to target victims.

And as a result, the most effective mechanisms over the last number of years have been multilateral efforts that have worked in a cross-border way to attack that. So, for example, just in the last few months you had a group of countries coming together, having worked with the private sector to trace the digital breadcrumbs of these operations to take down a broad set of scammers, hundreds of people, hundreds of millions of dollars in a set of countries.

The challenge often is with these efforts that the adversaries evolve technologically very quickly, and sometimes the pursuit efforts take far longer, and the rules and regulations of how digital pursuit happens is often still constrained in border-related geographic things.

So while we see new types of cooperation between Interpol, Europol, the U.S. and many others. We have a new type of multilateral law enforcement that’s needed.

We have a new type of multilateral law enforcement that’s needed. So what you see is organizations working together. Similarly, the private sector has stepped up.

There are organizations that now trace on the blockchain, because the blockchain is public, they trace on the blockchain crypto funds as well. We have a new type of multilateral law enforcement that’s needed. We can, frankly, partner with virtual asset service providers in key countries to tackle that.

Much as I noted law enforcement cooperation cross borders, virtual asset service providers cross borders as well. Some countries implement something called the financial action task force, anti-money laundering rules for crypto. We have a new type of multilateral law enforcement that’s needed.

We have a new type of multilateral law enforcement that’s based on helping countries. The counter ransomware initiative brought law enforcement individuals from 70 countries together with practical focused efforts to show how certain operations were done to help countries learn and gain the digital skills, both for their own government efforts as well as in partnering with some of the key private sector players who bring new data, new tools and new information.

Gary A. Haugen

We have a new type of multilateral law enforcement that’s needed. we have a tendency to look at these issues through the financial lens or the technical lens of cybersecurity, but through your work at international justice mission, could you also touch on the human dimension here, what this means for individuals, and when we see this trafficking, the coercion that takes place, could you help us actually look at this also through that lens?

I think that’s a really good question, and I think that’s something that we need to look at, and I think we need to look at a lot of these four scamming compounds, so we can have a really clear idea of what it looks like.

First, I want you to just picture what a scamming compound looks like. It looks like the Belvedere hotel that we walk past every day, except make it twice that size and increase the security tremendously with barbed wire and so forth around it. And you will find hundreds of these across these three countries in southeast Asia.

You will find hundreds of these in the United States, and you will find hundreds of these in the United States, and you will see force and abuse and assault starved and beaten if they don’t make quotas, and they are just hunched over a sweatshop of computers carrying out 24-7 scam operations around the world.

And picture that there’s hundreds of these, but also picture that international law enforcement forces are there, and there’s hundreds of survivors who have come out and told us where they are, and there are those breadcrumbs digitally that also can be coordinated to identify where they are.

So the picture now is actually not tens of thousands of these, but there’s four or 500 in these three countries that have stolen somewhere between 50 and $85 billion just last year. And what’s fascinating is that right now we actually know where the compounds are. So if you miss out on the tens of thousands of these victims, you’ll miss out on not only a massive human rights catastrophe that’s taking place, not only a massive financial catastrophe, but a massive human rights capacity, but you’ll miss out on a gold mine of human intelligence about exactly how the operations are going on.

This is the Achilles heel of these operations. This is the Achilles heel of the investigation that’s going on, and it’s the Achilles heel of the investigation that’s going on, a criminal network with tens of thousands of unwilling participants, thousands of which make their way out and can provide all the information you need about who’s doing this, where are they doing it, and how are they doing it.

So if we miss out on this gold mine of evidentiary and criminal intelligence, I used to be a prosecutor, and if I had to do anything, I would possibly need to be able to pursue accountability, and that’s why I believe at the end of the day it’s going to be physical inspection of these facilities that is going to be the complete Achilles heel.

Because if there can be international physical inspection of four or five hundred facilities, and don’t even go to that, just go look at five or six of them, you will find when you go in, thousands of people who are held against their will, all the forensic and physical evidence you need to know who’s doing it, who’s doing it, who’s doing it, how they’re doing it, and where they’re doing it.

So I think there’s the day before sort of this session at Davos about fighting this, and now there will be the day after this, and I think there’s a very positive future.

Jeremy Jurgens

Thank you for that, Gary. Now we have a kind of broader perspective, but our understanding of the challenge, I’d like us to come to actually what we can do to disrupt it, to your point. What does that day after look like?

And you spoke to the importance of cooperation, right? Transnational cooperation, what’s there? Where do you still see the gaps in coordination, and where would you prioritize these next day efforts?

Anne Neuberger

Yes, I love the way Gary described the way the operations occur. So essentially, the operations are most successful in ungoverned physical spaces and ungoverned online spaces, whether it’s in the public space, whether it’s in the private space, whether it’s in the government space, whether it’s in the private sector, and in the private sector, there’s a lot of ungoverned online spaces, whether that’s social media or the crypto ecosystem.

And when there’s international cooperation between governments and companies, you push back the ungoverned. We would often have a joke in the US government that the Seychelles was the home of a lot of virtual asset service providers that weren’t following, you know, anti-money laundering, cryptocurrency policies, and there were some of the things that were not part of the Seychelles government, but all kidding aside, I think there’s three sets of things.

One is there’s technical training of countries that do want to cooperate, right, to ensure that their law enforcement has the skills. I believe the US FBI is now embedded with the Thai police force as a key partner, because there’s nothing like sitting shoulder to shoulder exchanging intelligence information and working together. And the other set of things is there’s a lot of technology platforms.

I mentioned virtual asset service providers, social media platforms, particularly in an era of deepfakes, deepfake voice, deepfake video is a real issue, particularly for people who are vulnerable, need somebody to talk to.

Folks may have heard the term pig butchering, right, kind of targeting vulnerable people, making them think they’re in a romantic relationship and then scamming them badly. So that’s where technical platforms can help detect that. And I think the ability to have a high-level FBI on defense to help detect and block it is tremendously needed, because adversaries are adapting very quickly.

So I think that’s what the next generation looks like, technical cooperation across platforms to find the digital breadcrumbs and block them, and then the technical cooperation really across governments and governments and with those platforms to then drive that to action, because the enforcement action is in both sets of hands.

Jeremy Jurgens

Thank you. Thank you very much. Secretary, I’d like to come back to you.

And from your experience, how do we make sure that when we have law enforcement disrupting these operations, that they’re not just being displaced to someplace else? What have you seen that actually can lead to, you know, closing them down, you know, fully or completely there?

Valdecy Urquiza

It’s important, Jeremy, that operations targeting those scam centers address the entire ecosystem, not only the centers. If not, they will resurface everywhere. And what we’ve seen that has been effective in situations like this, first, is to build capacity for law enforcement in the countries where the scam centers are operating from.

If you don’t have all the tools, if you don’t have the capabilities for the agencies to investigate, to prevent those types of attacks, then it’s not going to work. If you don’t have all the tools, if you don’t have all the capabilities for the agencies to investigate, to prevent those types of crimes, they will operate freely. This is something that we are working on right now at Interpol, helping developing, helping with the development of anti-scam centers in a couple of countries.

Second, and this was mentioned by all our panelists here today, it’s about multilateralism. There is no way you can fight this sort of threat working isolated. We have platforms such as Interpol, Europol, the work of IJM, that helps connecting law enforcement, help connect all the agencies working on this.

And on this aspect, we are also developing some interesting activities. One is the Interpol task force for fighting scam centers, where we get, and this is in implementation phase, where we get law enforcement agencies from the impacted countries to operate together using the Interpol platform to investigate those crimes.

But it’s also about a multilateral legal framework, because you do need all countries to have the same level of legal system to identify and to be able to, you know, to be able to work together. So this is something that we are working on right now. Thank you.

and I’m the director of the UN Convention on Cybercrime. I’m here to talk about the importance of the UN Convention on Cybercrime and how we can prosecute those crimes. And an important achievement was made recently with the UN Convention for cybercrime that hopefully will help in establishing this legal minimal framework that is needed.

But finally, it’s also important to develop more public-private partnerships. I think most governments have different positioning in terms of persons with or without an cybercrime on the internet, and there is a great amount of privacy concerns first and foremost, both in the private sector, but also in the public sector.

In terms of the private sector, that is well impersonal co on platforms individuals have been influenced by persons with, and also the importance of crude observations which could in the end could be a threat if they are known, connected to criminal activities and criminal accounts co owned in particular civil companies which could be concerned of exploitation, in a per active way, it’s absolutely key.

Jeremy Jurgens

» Thank you. I would like to come back to this point, what’s the role of diplomacy in.

Sihasak Phuangketkeow

In this helping to achieve the multilateral cooperation, and what’s the role of diplomacy in dealing with the scale of this problem, this challenge? It’s beyond the responsibility of Interpol alone. Governments have to act, you know, and so because of its transnational character, and so I would like to emphasize the need for partnership.

This has been the most important priority whenever P 언�country exists in this pobrea aire, we have very important. Because, you know, if you look at one of the con trances of combating online scam is the, in loop holes that we have, in terms of laws, And the legislation topic is, before legal set state trust treaty was a concern to the cyber network, for instance a convention on cyber security was signed recently in Han Noi- I think that is a major step forward.

The other thing I think is diplomacy must be involved. Government must be involved, because there is a lot of instability, where there is poor rule of law or lacking of rule of law. And so governance is very important, and therefore governments will have to be working together.

And then in the end, it’s really about how to get our act together, and that involves political will. We have to raise the level of attention on this challenge, and Thailand, we just organized an international conference combating online scams in particular, and we’re trying to create a coalition of the willing.

And this coalition of the willing will bring our concerns and actions to various forums, because what we need to do is we have to connect the dots. Connect the dots in terms of sharing of information, because we have to connect the dots in terms of enforcement. Enforcement across boundaries, how do we do that?

And capacity building, that’s very important, because many countries lack the capacity. But the final point I’d like to emphasize is rapid, rapid information sharing, rapid response. Otherwise, we will be playing a catching-up game with these scenarios.

And I think that’s what we need to do. I think that’s what we need to do.

Jeremy Jurgens

Thank you. » I know we only have a few minutes left, but Gary, I want to come back to this human element, right? And particularly focusing on victim protection, survivor recovery, people don’t fall into the same trap again.

How do we make sure that we build this into operations at the same time?

Gary A. Haugen

» I do think focusing on the humans, well, first of all, what I predict, the call for international inspections of these facilities is going to become almost irresistible. Because if you have known sites where tens of billions of dollars are being stolen from citizens around the country, the call to just transparent international inspection will, I think, become very high.

And what they will then see is there are all of these tens of thousands of people who have been enslaved in these circumstances, and then they have to be treated properly. And as you ask, like, what will be the key to treating them the way they should be? In my mind, first of all, if the mind frame is, this is actually the solution to the problem.

Because these survivors actually have all the data and information that you could ever possibly dream of, of who exactly are the operators, how do they do it, and what will it take to bring them to account?

Now, I was just talking to a survivor this week, and he was trafficked from Bangladesh into one of these compounds. And when coming out, he’s, of course, scared what’s going to happen to him. Is he going to be treated as a criminal in the immigration process?

Is he going to be intimidated by the criminals? And so there’s going to be this fierce fight over this, the human element, where the criminals are going to try to bring violence to bear to shut them up, but the international community can bring support and care to bear to make them sing.

Not only sing because they’ll be in freedom, but sing of all they know about these operations. So I think if the international community just sees that the solution to this problem substantially lies in treating well the survivors of this problem, I think we’ll see our way not only to the morally correct approach we should take, but also the actual practical solution to the problem.

Jeremy Jurgens

Great. Thank you. I understand we may have time for one to two very quick questions.

So if there are any questions from the audience, this is the opportunity to bring them forward. Okay. I don’t see anything there.

Maybe I can actually just help bring what I took away from this session. I think one, I was just very impressed also this bring this human element forward. I don’t know that that’s always captured, you know, when we think about cybercrime and all the technologies and finance and so on.

If we start with this human centric, that’ll also actually help us put in place the right approaches there. We also have this aspect of the speed which has taken place where these industrial scale operations that are able to move much more quickly than both the institutions that traditionally address them. And they have tools available to them, whether it’s AI, deep fakes, voice cloning, et cetera, that actually give them a power that is disproportionate to the individuals both being attacked as well as those that are trying to address them.

And still on the challenging side, I think this aspect of governance, I think it’s important to remember that there’s a lot of work to be done. And that we see it taking place in those domains in the cyber field or physically that are ungoverned, right? And that also can help us identify and target those places.

You highlighted, Gary, you know, we know where these places are. And that brings us maybe to the most important point, and Minister, you highlighted public-private cooperation. And you also shared that with us.

And I think that’s a really important part of what we’re doing. And I think it’s important to bring in institutional boundaries, bringing in both civil society, law enforcement, technical operators, and, you know, these different groups to collectively address this.

And I think together we can both mitigate the impact, but ideally address this and prevent it before it gets out of the control. And I think that’s a really important part of what we’re doing. And I think that’s a really important part of what we’re doing.

So I’d like to thank everyone for your participation today, both online and here with us in Davos. And I thank my panelists for their contributions. Thanks.

Thank you.

Sihasak Phuangketkeow

Speech speed

149 words per minute

Speech length

– Valdecy Urquiza
– Anne Neuberger

Agreed on

International cooperation and multilateral approaches are essential for combating cyber fraud

Disagreed with

– Anne Neuberger

Disagreed on

Speed of response and enforcement capabilities

Valdecy Urquiza

Speech speed

168 words per minute

Speech length

771 words

Speech time

274 seconds

These operations have evolved from flight-by-night activities to major industries utilizing AI and sophisticated technology at unprecedented adoption levels

Explanation

The Secretary explains that criminal organizations are adopting AI at levels never seen before with any other technology. This technological advancement is helping them operate at larger scales and become more effective in targeting victims.

Evidence

Agreed with

– Sihasak Phuangketkeow
– Anne Neuberger

Agreed on

International cooperation and multilateral approaches are essential for combating cyber fraud

The UN Convention on Cybercrime represents progress in establishing minimal legal frameworks needed for international cooperation

Explanation

The Secretary highlights that the recently achieved UN Convention on Cybercrime is an important step forward in establishing the legal framework necessary for countries to work together effectively against these crimes.

Evidence

The UN Convention for cybercrime was recently established and will help create the minimal legal framework needed for international cooperation in prosecuting these crimes.

Major discussion point

International Cooperation and Law Enforcement Response

Topics

Legal and regulatory | Cybersecurity

Anne Neuberger

Speech speed

198 words per minute

Speech length

770 words

Speech time

233 seconds

Multilateral law enforcement efforts involving cross-border cooperation have successfully taken down operations worth hundreds of millions of dollars

Explanation

Neuberger explains that the most effective mechanisms have been multilateral efforts working across borders, with countries coming together and working with the private sector to trace digital breadcrumbs and take down large-scale operations.

Evidence

Agreed with

– Sihasak Phuangketkeow
– Valdecy Urquiza

Agreed on

Criminal organizations are adopting advanced technology faster than law enforcement can respond

Disagreed with

– Sihasak Phuangketkeow

Disagreed on

Speed of response and enforcement capabilities

Digital breadcrumbs from blockchain transactions and social media can be traced through public-private partnerships with virtual asset service providers

Explanation

Neuberger explains that private sector organizations can trace crypto funds on the public blockchain and partner with virtual asset service providers across borders to tackle these operations effectively.

Evidence

Organizations now trace crypto funds on the blockchain because it’s public, and partnerships with virtual asset service providers in key countries help implement anti-money laundering rules for crypto.

Major discussion point

Technology and Detection Challenges

Topics

Cybersecurity | Economic | Legal and regulatory

Technical cooperation between governments and private platforms is needed to detect and block fraudulent activities in real-time

Explanation

Neuberger argues for technical cooperation across platforms to find digital breadcrumbs and block them, combined with cooperation between governments and platforms to drive enforcement action.

Evidence

Examples include the US FBI being embedded with Thai police force as partners, and the counter ransomware initiative bringing law enforcement from 70 countries together with practical focused efforts.

Major discussion point

Solutions and Future Approaches

Topics

Cybersecurity | Infrastructure | Legal and regulatory

Disagreed with

– Gary A. Haugen

Disagreed on

Primary approach to disrupting operations – physical inspection vs. technical cooperation

Gary A. Haugen

Speech speed

272 words per minute

Speech length

968 words

Speech time

213 seconds

Scam compounds are massive facilities where hundreds of trafficked workers are held against their will, beaten, and forced to work 24/7 in sweatshop conditions

Explanation

Haugen provides a vivid description of scam compounds as facilities twice the size of large hotels with extensive security, where hundreds of people are held against their will and subjected to physical abuse if they don’t meet quotas.

Evidence

Disagreed with

– Anne Neuberger

Disagreed on

Primary approach to disrupting operations – physical inspection vs. technical cooperation

Treating survivors properly is both morally correct and practically essential since they hold the key intelligence needed to dismantle criminal networks

Explanation

Haugen emphasizes that survivors should be treated well not only for moral reasons but because they possess all the data and information needed to identify operators and bring them to account.

Evidence

Describes speaking with a survivor trafficked from Bangladesh who was scared of being treated as a criminal but possessed crucial intelligence about the operations.

Major discussion point

Solutions and Future Approaches

Topics

Human rights | Legal and regulatory | Cybersecurity

Jeremy Jurgens

Speech speed

199 words per minute

Speech length

997 words

Speech time

299 seconds

The session emphasized the importance of rapid information sharing and response to avoid playing catch-up with criminal operations

Explanation

Jurgens highlighted throughout the session that these industrial-scale operations move much more quickly than traditional institutions, and emphasized the need for rapid information sharing and response mechanisms.

Major discussion point

Technology and Detection Challenges

Topics

Cybersecurity | Infrastructure | Legal and regulatory

A human-centric approach combined with public-private cooperation across institutional boundaries offers the best path forward

Explanation

Jurgens concluded that starting with the human element and bringing together civil society, law enforcement, technical operators, and other groups across institutional boundaries provides the best approach to address these challenges.

Evidence

Emphasized the importance of bringing the human element forward and highlighted public-private cooperation as essential for collective action.

Major discussion point

Solutions and Future Approaches

Topics

Human rights | Cybersecurity | Development

Agreements

Agreement points

Cyber fraud operations have evolved from small-scale to industrial-scale operations with massive financial impact

Speakers

– Sihasak Phuangketkeow
– Valdecy Urquiza

Arguments

Southeast Asia has become the epicenter of industrial-scale cyber fraud operations involving hundreds of thousands of people and hundreds of billions of dollars

These operations have evolved from flight-by-night activities to major industries utilizing AI and sophisticated technology at unprecedented adoption levels

Summary

Both speakers agree that cyber fraud has transformed from small, disorganized operations into massive, sophisticated industrial enterprises involving enormous numbers of people and unprecedented financial losses

Topics

Cybersecurity | Economic

International cooperation and multilateral approaches are essential for combating cyber fraud

Speakers

– Sihasak Phuangketkeow
– Valdecy Urquiza
– Anne Neuberger

Arguments

Political will and diplomatic engagement are essential for creating coalitions and connecting enforcement efforts across boundaries

Effective disruption requires addressing the entire ecosystem, not just individual centers, through capacity building and multilateral legal frameworks

Multilateral law enforcement efforts involving cross-border cooperation have successfully taken down operations worth hundreds of millions of dollars

Summary

All three speakers emphasize that the transnational nature of cyber fraud requires coordinated international responses, with successful examples already demonstrating the effectiveness of multilateral cooperation

Topics

Legal and regulatory | Cybersecurity | Development

Criminal organizations are adopting advanced technology faster than law enforcement can respond

Speakers

– Sihasak Phuangketkeow
– Valdecy Urquiza
– Anne Neuberger

Arguments

These operations have evolved from flight-by-night activities to major industries utilizing AI and sophisticated technology at unprecedented adoption levels

Criminal organizations are adopting AI and deepfake technology faster than law enforcement can adapt, making victims harder to protect

Summary

Speakers agree that criminals are rapidly adopting cutting-edge technologies like AI and deepfakes at unprecedented levels, creating challenges for law enforcement to keep pace

Topics

Cybersecurity | Infrastructure

Human trafficking is a central component of cyber fraud operations

Speakers

– Sihasak Phuangketkeow
– Gary A. Haugen

Arguments

Cyber fraud operations involve human trafficking with workers from Africa, Europe, and other regions being lured, coerced, or trafficked into working for syndicates

Scam compounds are massive facilities where hundreds of trafficked workers are held against their will, beaten, and forced to work 24/7 in sweatshop conditions

Summary

Both speakers emphasize that cyber fraud is not just about financial crimes but involves serious human rights violations through trafficking and forced labor

Topics

Human rights | Cybersecurity

Similar viewpoints

Both speakers emphasize the importance of public-private partnerships and systematic approaches to combat cyber fraud, with Neuberger focusing on technical cooperation and Urquiza on ecosystem-wide responses

Speakers

– Anne Neuberger
– Valdecy Urquiza

Arguments

Digital breadcrumbs from blockchain transactions and social media can be traced through public-private partnerships with virtual asset service providers

Effective disruption requires addressing the entire ecosystem, not just individual centers, through capacity building and multilateral legal frameworks

Topics

Cybersecurity | Economic | Legal and regulatory

Both speakers advocate for prioritizing the human element in addressing cyber fraud, viewing survivors and victims not just as people to help but as key to solving the problem

Speakers

– Gary A. Haugen
– Jeremy Jurgens

Arguments

Treating survivors properly is both morally correct and practically essential since they hold the key intelligence needed to dismantle criminal networks

A human-centric approach combined with public-private cooperation across institutional boundaries offers the best path forward

Topics

Human rights | Cybersecurity | Development

Unexpected consensus

Physical inspection of scam facilities as a breakthrough solution

Speakers

– Gary A. Haugen
– Anne Neuberger
– Valdecy Urquiza

Arguments

International physical inspection of known scam facilities could provide the breakthrough needed to gather evidence and rescue victims

Operations function in ungoverned physical and online spaces, making international cooperation essential to push back against these threats

Effective disruption requires addressing the entire ecosystem, not just individual centers, through capacity building and multilateral legal frameworks

Explanation

While coming from different perspectives, all speakers converge on the idea that known physical locations of these operations represent a vulnerability that can be exploited through coordinated international action, which is unexpected given the typically cyber-focused nature of such discussions

Topics

Legal and regulatory | Human rights | Cybersecurity

Survivors as intelligence assets rather than just victims

Speakers

– Gary A. Haugen
– Valdecy Urquiza

Arguments

Survivors of these operations possess crucial intelligence about criminal networks and can provide detailed information about operators and methods

Effective disruption requires addressing the entire ecosystem, not just individual centers, through capacity building and multilateral legal frameworks

Explanation

There’s unexpected consensus that treating survivors well is not just humanitarian but strategically essential, as they represent the best source of intelligence about criminal operations – a perspective that bridges human rights and law enforcement priorities

Topics

Human rights | Legal and regulatory | Cybersecurity

Overall assessment

Summary

The speakers demonstrate remarkable consensus across multiple dimensions: the scale and evolution of cyber fraud from small operations to industrial enterprises, the critical need for international cooperation, the rapid adoption of technology by criminals, and the central role of human trafficking in these operations

Consensus level

Very high level of consensus with complementary expertise. The agreement spans technical, legal, diplomatic, and human rights perspectives, suggesting a mature understanding of the problem that could facilitate coordinated action. The consensus is particularly strong on the need for multilateral approaches and the recognition that this is fundamentally a human rights issue disguised as a cybercrime problem.

Differences

Different viewpoints

Primary approach to disrupting operations – physical inspection vs. technical cooperation

Speakers

– Gary A. Haugen
– Anne Neuberger

Arguments

International physical inspection of known scam facilities could provide the breakthrough needed to gather evidence and rescue victims

Technical cooperation between governments and private platforms is needed to detect and block fraudulent activities in real-time

Summary

Haugen emphasizes physical inspection of facilities as the key breakthrough approach, arguing that inspecting just a few known compounds would provide all necessary evidence. Neuberger focuses on technical cooperation, digital breadcrumbs tracing, and cross-platform collaboration as the primary solution.

Topics

Cybersecurity | Legal and regulatory | Human rights

Speed of response and enforcement capabilities

Speakers

– Sihasak Phuangketkeow
– Anne Neuberger

Arguments

Political will and diplomatic engagement are essential for creating coalitions and connecting enforcement efforts across boundaries

Criminal organizations are adopting AI and deepfake technology faster than law enforcement can adapt, making victims harder to protect

Summary

The Minister emphasizes rapid response and political will as solutions, while Neuberger acknowledges that adversaries evolve technologically faster than law enforcement can adapt, suggesting a more cautious view of enforcement capabilities.

Topics

Cybersecurity | Legal and regulatory | Development

Unexpected differences

Emphasis on human intelligence vs. technical solutions

Speakers

– Gary A. Haugen
– Anne Neuberger

Arguments

Treating survivors properly is both morally correct and practically essential since they hold the key intelligence needed to dismantle criminal networks

Digital breadcrumbs from blockchain transactions and social media can be traced through public-private partnerships with virtual asset service providers

Explanation

Unexpectedly, there’s a fundamental disagreement on whether human intelligence from survivors or technical digital tracking should be the primary investigative approach. This is surprising given both speakers’ law enforcement backgrounds.

Topics

Human rights | Cybersecurity | Legal and regulatory

Overall assessment

Summary

The speakers show broad consensus on the severity of the problem and need for international cooperation, but differ significantly on tactical approaches and implementation priorities

Disagreement level

Moderate disagreement with significant implications – while all speakers agree on the need for coordinated international response, their different emphases on physical inspection, technical cooperation, diplomatic engagement, and capacity building could lead to fragmented or competing approaches rather than unified action against these criminal operations

Partial agreements

Similar viewpoints

Both speakers emphasize the importance of public-private partnerships and systematic approaches to combat cyber fraud, with Neuberger focusing on technical cooperation and Urquiza on ecosystem-wide responses

Speakers

– Anne Neuberger
– Valdecy Urquiza

Arguments

Digital breadcrumbs from blockchain transactions and social media can be traced through public-private partnerships with virtual asset service providers

Effective disruption requires addressing the entire ecosystem, not just individual centers, through capacity building and multilateral legal frameworks

Topics

Cybersecurity | Economic | Legal and regulatory

Both speakers advocate for prioritizing the human element in addressing cyber fraud, viewing survivors and victims not just as people to help but as key to solving the problem

Speakers

– Gary A. Haugen
– Jeremy Jurgens

Arguments

Treating survivors properly is both morally correct and practically essential since they hold the key intelligence needed to dismantle criminal networks

A human-centric approach combined with public-private cooperation across institutional boundaries offers the best path forward

Topics

Human rights | Cybersecurity | Development

Takeaways

Key takeaways

Cyber fraud has evolved into industrial-scale operations that combine financial crime with human trafficking, with Southeast Asia as the epicenter involving hundreds of thousands of trafficked workers

These operations generate hundreds of billions of dollars annually and are expanding globally beyond Southeast Asia, utilizing AI and sophisticated technology at unprecedented adoption levels

Criminal organizations are adopting new technologies (AI, deepfakes, voice cloning) faster than law enforcement can adapt, creating asymmetric capabilities

Scam compounds are massive facilities where trafficked workers are held against their will and forced to work in sweatshop conditions, but their locations are known

Survivors of these operations possess crucial intelligence about criminal networks and represent the ‘Achilles heel’ of these operations

Effective response requires multilateral cooperation across governments, law enforcement, private sector, and civil society to address both ungoverned physical and online spaces

A human-centric approach that properly treats survivors is both morally correct and practically essential for gathering intelligence to dismantle networks

The threat has reached a scale where criminal organizations are challenging state authority, similar to drug cartels in Latin America

Resolutions and action items

Thailand organized an international conference to create a ‘coalition of the willing’ to bring coordinated action to various international forums

Interpol is developing anti-scam centers in multiple countries and implementing a task force for fighting scam centers using the Interpol platform

The UN Convention on Cybercrime was recently signed, establishing minimal legal frameworks for international cooperation

The US FBI is now embedded with Thai police forces as a key partnership model for shoulder-to-shoulder cooperation

Need for international physical inspection of known scam facilities to gather evidence and rescue victims

Development of public-private partnerships with virtual asset service providers and social media platforms for real-time detection and blocking

Capacity building for law enforcement in countries where scam centers operate, including technical training and digital skills development

Unresolved issues

How to prevent displacement of operations to other locations when law enforcement disrupts existing centers

Addressing the speed gap between rapidly evolving criminal technology adoption and slower institutional response capabilities

Establishing consistent legal frameworks across all countries to enable effective prosecution and cooperation

Ensuring rapid information sharing and response mechanisms to avoid playing catch-up with criminal operations

Protecting survivors from intimidation and violence by criminal networks while gathering intelligence

Addressing the root causes of instability and lack of rule of law that enable these operations to flourish

Scaling up victim protection and survivor recovery programs to handle tens of thousands of trafficked individuals

Suggested compromises

Impact

This comment validated and elevated the various cooperation mechanisms discussed by other speakers, framing them not as incremental improvements but as necessary institutional evolution. It provided intellectual foundation for the diplomatic and capacity-building solutions proposed by other panelists.

Overall assessment

Explanation

While deepfakes were identified as a growing threat, specific technical solutions for detection and prevention, especially for vulnerable populations, need further research

Disclaimer: This is not an official session record. DiploAI generates these resources from audiovisual recordings, and they are presented as-is, including potential errors. Due to logistical challenges, such as discrepancies in audio/video or transcripts, names may be misspelled. We strive for accuracy to the best of our ability.