Tech and Learning: Can They Vibe? / DAVOS 2025

Summary

This panel discussion at the World Economic Forum focused on the integration of technology and learning in education. The panelists, including education leaders from Rwanda, the USA, and global organizations, explored how emerging technologies can enhance learning experiences while addressing challenges.

Key themes included leveraging technology to improve access and equity in education, particularly in underserved communities. The importance of balancing technology use with human interaction and engagement was emphasized, with panelists agreeing that technology should supplement rather than replace traditional teaching methods. The discussion highlighted the need to focus on developing essential human skills like critical thinking, problem-solving, and collaboration alongside technological literacy.

The panelists stressed the importance of measuring learning outcomes effectively and reimagining assessment methods to align with 21st-century skills. They discussed the potential of AI in personalizing education and providing real-time feedback, while also cautioning about the need for proper regulation and data protection, especially for young learners.

The conversation touched on the transformation of education systems, particularly at the high school level, to better prepare students for the future workforce. The role of project-based learning and career education in developing crucial skills was highlighted. Panelists also discussed the importance of early childhood education and the use of technology to reach children in crisis situations.

Overall, the discussion emphasized the need for a holistic approach to education that combines technology with human-centered learning, focuses on developing essential skills, and adapts to the changing needs of learners and society.

Keypoints

Major discussion points:

– Leveraging technology to improve access and equity in education

– Balancing technology use with human interaction and skills development

– Reimagining assessment and measurement in education

– Preparing students with skills needed for the future workforce

– Ensuring safety and security when using digital platforms in education

Overall purpose/goal:

The discussion aimed to explore how emerging technologies can be effectively integrated into education systems to enhance learning experiences, while still maintaining focus on critical human skills and interactions. The panelists sought to identify ways to leverage tech tools responsibly to improve educational access, personalization, and outcomes.

Tone:

The tone was largely collaborative and solution-oriented. Panelists built on each other’s points and offered complementary perspectives. There was a sense of urgency around the need to reimagine education for the digital age, but also optimism about the potential for positive change. The tone became more impassioned when discussing the importance of human skills and protecting children online.

Speakers

– Tania Bryer: Anchor and broadcaster at CNBC

– Sherrie Westin: Chief Executive Officer, Sesame Workshop USA

– Amit Sevak: CEO of ETS, a global education and talent solutions organization

– Randi Weingarten: President of the American Federation of Teachers

– Joseph Nsengimana: Minister of Education of Rwanda

Additional speakers:

– Hawa Mufsi: Global shaper (audience member who asked a question)

Expanded Summary of World Economic Forum Panel Discussion on Technology and Learning in Education

This panel discussion at the World Economic Forum brought together education leaders from Rwanda, the USA, and global organisations to explore the integration of technology and learning in education. The conversation focused on how emerging technologies can enhance learning experiences while addressing challenges in the rapidly evolving educational landscape.

Key Themes and Discussion Points:

1. Leveraging Technology to Improve Access and Equity in Education

The panellists agreed on the importance of using technology to expand access to education, particularly in underserved communities. Joseph Nsengimana, Minister of Education of Rwanda, highlighted the country’s progress in school connectivity, with 62% of basic education schools currently connected and plans to reach 83% by April. He emphasized the distinction between coverage and access, noting that while ICT coverage is high, actual usage remains lower.

Sherrie Westin, CEO of Sesame Workshop USA, discussed using technology to reach underserved communities at scale. She provided a concrete example of Sesame Workshop’s partnership with the International Rescue Committee in the Syrian response region, demonstrating the use of technology in humanitarian contexts. Westin also drew parallels between current efforts and Sesame Street’s origins as an experiment to use television for education.

2. Balancing Technology Use with Human Interaction and Skills Development

A central theme of the discussion was the importance of maintaining a balance between technological innovation and human-centred learning. Randi Weingarten, President of the American Federation of Teachers representing 1.8 million members, stressed the need to integrate technology as a supplement to human interaction rather than a replacement. She emphasized the importance of place-based learning and schools as trusted institutions in communities.

All speakers emphasised the need to focus on developing essential human skills like critical thinking, problem-solving, and collaboration alongside technological literacy. Joseph Nsengimana advocated for defining educational goals first and then designing technology use around achieving those goals. Randi Weingarten emphasised transforming high school specifically to teach essential skills.

3. Reimagining Assessment and Measurement in Education

The panellists agreed on the need to reimagine assessment methods to align with 21st-century skills. Amit Sevak, CEO of ETS, discussed implementing dynamic, AI-enabled assessments that provide real-time feedback. He proposed creating skills transcripts alongside academic transcripts to measure a broader range of competencies.

Joseph Nsengimana called for changing the philosophy around assessment to focus on learning outcomes rather than traditional testing. Randi Weingarten advocated for using project-based learning for skill development and assessment. Sherrie Westin emphasised the importance of conducting research to measure the impact of educational initiatives, highlighting Sesame Street’s research-based approach to content creation and evaluation.

4. Preparing Students for the Future Workforce

The discussion touched on the transformation of education systems, particularly at the high school level, to better prepare students for the future workforce. Randi Weingarten proposed a radical rethinking of secondary education, suggesting that high school is where students start to become adults and should therefore focus more on essential skills development.

5. Ensuring Safety and Security in Digital Learning Environments

The panellists addressed the challenges of ensuring cybersecurity and child protection in online learning environments. Joseph Nsengimana stressed the importance of balancing regulation with innovation to avoid stifling technological advancements. He also highlighted the need for awareness campaigns and parental engagement in protecting children online. Randi Weingarten advocated for comprehensive regulation to prevent potential misuse of technology.

Sherrie Westin emphasised the need to develop technologies and AI with children’s needs in mind from the start, rather than as an afterthought. She also stressed the importance of engaging adults (parents or caregivers) when using technology for children’s learning.

6. Artificial Intelligence in Education

The discussion touched on the potential of AI for personalized learning, as mentioned by the minister. Panelists emphasized the importance of clean, relevant, and contextualized data for building AI models in education. This highlighted the need for careful consideration in developing and implementing AI-driven educational tools.

7. Early Childhood Education and Technology

An unexpected area of consensus emerged between Sherrie Westin and Randi Weingarten on the importance of integrating technology and essential skills development from an early age, despite their different focus areas (early childhood and high school education, respectively).

Unresolved Issues and Future Considerations:

The discussion left several issues unresolved, including:

– How to effectively regulate online educational content while fostering innovation

– Scaling successful educational technology pilots and initiatives to reach all students

– Addressing potential biases in AI models used in education

– Balancing screen time and technology use with human interaction in learning

The panellists suggested some compromises and action items, including:

– Using technology as a supplement to, not a replacement for, human teaching and interaction

– Balancing regulation of educational technology with room for innovation

– Combining traditional academic transcripts with new skills-based assessments

– Expanding infrastructure and access to digital learning, especially in underserved communities

– Implementing more dynamic, AI-enabled assessments that provide real-time feedback

– Developing awareness campaigns and engaging parents in online child protection

Overall, the discussion emphasised the need for a holistic approach to education that combines technology with human-centred learning, focuses on developing essential skills, and adapts to the changing needs of learners and society. The panellists demonstrated a high level of consensus on the importance of integrating technology thoughtfully and purposefully, while maintaining focus on fundamental human skills and interactions. This shared vision suggests a promising direction for educational policy and practice that leverages technological innovation to enhance, rather than replace, human-centred learning experiences.

Tania Bryer: Well, hello, everyone, and good afternoon to our audience here in the room, and of course to our online audience who are joining us. I’m Tania Bryer, anchor and broadcaster at CNBC, and I’m delighted to welcome you to our crucial discussion this afternoon, tech and learning, can they vibe? We’re about to find out. The education sector is at a critical juncture with traditional models facing increasing pressure and emerging technologies offering the potential to revolutionize learning experiences, making them more personalized, efficient and accessible. My esteemed panelists will discuss how today’s technologies can be leveraged to equip learners, educators and institutions with future ready tools that enhance education. So please now welcome my esteemed speakers. Right next to me, we have the Honourable Joseph Nsengimana, who’s the Minister of Education of Rwanda. Welcome, Minister. Thank you. Next to the Minister, we have Sherrie Westin, Chief Executive Officer, Sesame Workshop USA. Welcome, Sherrie. And we have Randy Weingarten, President of the American Federation of Teachers. Thank you. And last but not least, Amit Sevak is CEO of ETS, a global education and talent solutions organization enabling lifelong learners to be future ready. Welcome to all of you. Welcome to all of you. Tech and learning, can they vibe? Minister, if you don’t mind, I’m going to start with you. Rwanda stands out as a leader in ICT development among African nations, with 97 percent… of its population covered by 4G networks. How do you intend to harness emerging technologies, not only to improve access to education, but also to bridge the digital divide and promote greater equity across the education system?

Joseph Nsengimana: Well, thank you very much for that question and thank you for inviting me to be part of this great discussion. I think when we talk about numbers, we need to understand them. So while 97% of the population is covered, it’s not that 97% of the population is actually using it. And so we need to extend first and foremost, not only the coverage, but the access to that coverage. And so what we’re doing, particularly in education, is to ensure that our schools are connected. Currently, we have 62% of the schools in basic education, K to 12, that are currently connected to internet. And we are actually connecting them on a dedicated education network. And that’s gonna allow us to share resources with schools. In this quarter, that’s ending in April, we’ll have connected an additional 21%. So in total, 83% of our schools will be connected. And the remainder of the year, we’ll actually be working on connecting all the remaining schools. Of course, the last part of the schools will get even harder to connect because of other underlying infrastructure issues that you have to deal with. But connecting them is not enough. Now you have to connect them to something. So the content that actually is on this network needs to ensure that it’s an appropriate content that is structured in a way that is interactive and actually cause learning. We do know by looking at the science of learning, there are certain ways in which you actually are generating learning. And there are other ways in which you are doing some exercise, but not necessarily. causing learning. So we want to make sure that the content that is actually accessed through this network is one that is contextualized and localized and contextualized to the realities of Rwanda, but at the same time, that is infused with the principles of science of learning so that our kids can learn. And on top of that, we want to make sure that the kids are being educated and skilled to survive and thrive in the current environment. So when we look at the change that is so constant and picking up the pace, how are we equipping them to deal with that? So what are those fundamental skills that they must have? And so these are some of the things we’re looking at to ensure that our curriculum is updated and actually possesses these human skills that are so constant across the years and across the change. And then on top of that, then you make sure that they have the skills, the technological skill, literacy, that would help them to cope with all those changes. So these are some of the things we’re doing to make sure that we expand our infrastructure investment, but also ensure that we’re getting a return on that investment.

Tania Bryer: And skills is the key word here, both human and technological as well. Sherry, Sesame Workshop has a longstanding history of serving under-resourced communities and supporting early learning. How are you leveraging emerging technologies to expand and scale this impact and ensuring greater access, as Minister said, access is so important, and support for early childhood education?

Sherrie Westin: Well, first of all, thank you for including Sesame Workshop in this conversation. But I would say that, interestingly enough, if you think of the origins of Sesame Street, which was created in the US, it means now Sesame is a global organization, reaching children in over 150 countries. But Sesame Street’s origins, it was the late 60s. It was President Johnson administration declared a war on poverty. There was all sorts of research that showed that children in poverty, particularly children of color, were falling behind and they were arriving at school without the skills they needed to learn. So Sesame Street started as an experiment with funding from Ford Foundation, Carnegie Corporation, Department of Education to see if television could teach. Now think of it, television was the new technology of the day. More importantly to see if it could give access to those children who didn’t have the same advantages to quality early learning. So the rest is history and there have been over a thousand studies on the efficacy of Sesame Street, including longitudinal studies with significant outcomes and on our international productions around the world, many of which are local. So if you think about 55 years later, the need for our work has never been greater. It’s quite prescience to think about using technology or media to reach children who might not have access. In many of the countries, we are reaching children who have very little access to quality early learning. And when you think of how many times education is disrupted, whether it was the pandemic, whether it’s, you know, over 120 million people displaced, almost half of whom are children. So I’ll give you one example of today. So it’s now all forms of media, all forms of digital platforms. We need to reach children where they are. And that varies depending on the geography, depending on the circumstances. But we did a partnership with the International Rescue Committee that we started about seven years ago. We designed it to be able to provide education at the Syrian response region because so many children were displaced. Together we created what literally is the largest early childhood intervention in humanitarian response. And just think of it as Sesame creating all local Arabic content. It’s called Ahlan Simpson, which means welcome Sesame, reaching over 30 million children throughout the region. through digital YouTube broadcast, but then partnering with the IRC, we were able to embed our curriculum, our materials, our resources, high tech, low tech, into those direct services, like home visits, like learning centers. So I’ll tell this quickly, but fast forward the pandemic, obviously none of those services could be in person. So we pivoted, we put the Ahan Simpson content onto WhatsApp. In Lebanon, we provided that to groups of parents, and those learning center teachers and those home visitors who couldn’t work, we trained them to call twice a week to those groups of parents and facilitate engagement between that content they had on their phone and their children. And the reason I give this example is NYU did a randomized control trial that showed in 11 weeks the learning outcomes in literacy, numeracy, and social emotional skills were the equivalent to a full year of pre-K. Now I like to think that speaks to the quality of our content, but I think it also speaks to the fact that by being facilitated, you were creating content that was also a catalyst for engagement between adult and child, and that’s how children really learn. So this is an example, to your point, that we can use technology to reach children at scale and especially marginalized communities, children when they’re at risk in conflict regions or settings. So I think the potential is enormous.

Tania Bryer: The potential is huge, Randy. And just talking about the pandemic that Sherry brought up, because it was so interesting. I mean, from the teacher’s point of view, that must have been an enormous challenge.

Randi Weingarten: It was. I mean, all across the world, it was an enormous challenge. And spoiler alert, the teachers wanted to go back to be in school, in person. Our union… a month after the pandemic started was the first group to actually put a report out that said, how do we go back to in-person? Because that human dimension of look, like we’re doing right now in a circle, looking at each other, talking not at each other, but with each other, listening to each other. These are the kinds of things that technology doesn’t normally enable you to do as a supplement to learning. It’s absolutely essential. As Sherry just said, it can be the alchemy, but the goal has to be, and the question about whether they vibe, of course they vibe. Of course they have to vibe. Thank goodness for that. But the issue becomes, and this is where I think what we’re all talking about, is how do you integrate the human dimension with technology? And if you think about everything, sorry, I’m a history teacher, but I represent 1.8 million people. How do you create a permission structure? How do you create a collaborative environment so that this is not a replacement theory, but one where technology is supplementing what we are doing so that the human dimension is always in the forefront? And I think that that’s the challenge here, because when you’re at the World Economic Forum, everyone here is a leader. Everyone here has done something hugely impactful, which is why they’re here, whether it’s in civil society or whether it’s in government or whether it’s in business. Most of what we do is to help regular folks folk, whether they’re in Rwanda or America, actually succeed and thrive. And so we have to, as you just said, we have to meet them where they are. And it’s not what’s said, it’s what’s heard. So teaching becomes one of the ways of doing that, of creating that opportunity. So the teachers have to be in the middle of this, because if they feel like they’re being replaced or they feel like they’re being supplanted, how are they going to engage kids? And families have to be in the middle of this. So this is something that leaders who may get this intuitively and instinctively, we have to think about how we create a safe and welcoming environment and with the support so that kids can thrive and go well beyond our expectations.

Tania Bryer: How do we do that in a meeting? I was actually going to ask you to address concerns over reliance on technology and that might impact students’ critical thinking and creativity.

Amit Sevak: Tanya, it’s great to be here with this wonderful and passionate panel. It’s all about measuring what matters. And what matters right now is ensuring that the education that we’re delivering is actually having impact on the future of work, on the future civil society, on the future economy. In the world today, we spend about $5 trillion on education, $5 trillion. And less than 1% of that is spent on measuring in a modern way those skills, those learnings. So the big opportunity here is to reimagine measurement. And what I was struck by in the comments of my colleagues on the panel was the mention of the science of learning, the studies. that you mentioned, Sherry, the study with the teachers. The use of science, evidence, to really reinforce that there’s learning that’s happening and there’s activity that’s happening and understanding and getting feedback on that, that’s really, really critical. We just completed a human progress report at ETS. And we find that the incredible, incredible impact that individuals are feeling right now around measurement is now more than ever. People really want to get those kinds of signals. They want to see studies. They want to see evidence around this. So I want to reinforce just the importance of measurement and particularly the science, the evidence-based measurement when we think about education.

Randi Weingarten: But can I just say, may I just say that what we measure matters. And we have, for years in education, measured things through a testing system that’s not aligned with the skills and knowledge that kids need in the 21st century. And so the notion of what is needed, and the minister said, what is needed for kids in 21st century? It can change in regions.

Tania Bryer: What’s going to help them?

Randi Weingarten: What’s going to help them? And frankly, if we had an accountability system that was aligned to that, everybody would say, OK, this makes sense. But if there’s an accountability system that says, you do this, this is the testing in numeracy and literacy, but what we know that kids need are relationships, resilience, critical thinking, and problem solving, but we’re not measuring that, we’re not doing project-based learning, then the teachers are going to say, OK, what do you want me to do?

Amit Sevak: That’s exactly right.

Tania Bryer: How do they know?

Randi Weingarten: And how do they know? So that’s why we have to do it in a way where, what a shock, think about bottom up. That kid, that pre-kindergarten kid, that parent in Lebanon who saw this and said that aha moment. If we start thinking about and designing bottom up, I think we’d be more successful.

Amit Sevak: I think if we start with the jobs, right? The World Economic Forum said that. 2030 in a report just released this week that 40% of the jobs that exist today are going to have skills that are obsolete. So if we think about what the purpose of education is, if it’s a key part is to prepare people for the future of work, figuring out what those skills are, collaboration skills, communication skills.

Randi Weingarten: But the skills that you just talked about and everybody talked about, collaboration, critical thinking, problem solving, resilience in relationships, they’re essential regardless.

Tania Bryer: But Shane, will they stay essential?

Sherrie Westin: 100%. Well, those will. I mean, the fact and the reason, of course, I believe it’s so important that we start early because those first five years of life are so important for a child’s brain development. That’s when they’re learning from engagement with an adult. And again, we can use incredible technology and digital tools, but we’re going to be most effective when those tools actually are a catalyst for engagement and not just supplanting. And I’ll give you one other Sesame. I’ve been at Sesame a long time, but I have these aha moments. And I realized the prescience of the creator, the founder of Sesame Street was also that they worked with Harvard educators and research, et cetera, but there was a hunch that the learning would be deeper if an adult were watching with a child. So if you know the domestic version, and it’s the same model for our productions around the world, there’s always celebrities and musicians and humor and parodies because there was a deliberate attempt to engage an adult so the learning would go on off screen. And today, I believe that’s still a critical factor for us to look at and think about how we develop new digital tools, new technologies with that in mind so that it’s not just the tool to put the child in front of. I mean, there are absolute learning advantages and needs, but when it can also be a catalyst for an engagement with an adult or caregiver, those are really important things for us to look at when we think of these technologies for children.

Joseph Nsengimana: I think if I build on what you’re saying is that Sesame thought, the child will learn better if there is an adult. And so they designed the program to engage the adult. So you can see that they thought, what’s our goal? And everything was designed around achieving that goal. I think in education we have to think the same way. What are we trying to get? Blue skies. If everything works, at the end what happens? Because then you can design backwards. You can work backwards to make sure that all the elements are actually in place. I say this because a lot of time we think of technology as an entity itself. It isn’t.

Tania Bryer: Right, it’s how we use it. It’s how we use the medium.

Joseph Nsengimana: It’s how we use it. So it’s a tool in a way. So if you think about that is, if I want to make sure that the kids are actually getting an individualized learning, I can use technology to help me do that. Because if I’m a teacher and I have a class of 100 kids, there is no way I’m going to give each one of these kids an individualized attention. But if I can bring AI and create these tutor bots that can work with each kid, it could help me in an attempt to give each one of those child and focus attention. So I think that’s how we should think of this technology and the tools that we’re using. Rather than studying from the technology and then finding out, it’s not the technology that’s leading. It’s the goal, the education that should be the leader. And then we bring everything in to help us with that.

Amit Sevak: That’s the holy grail. I mean, we in education have been talking for decades about personalization, personalized learning, reaching students where they’re at. It’s challenging to do that in a classic traditional model where you’ve got classrooms set up in a certain way, curriculum set up in a certain way. So that power of really unlocking personalization is now more than ever possible. At the same time, with all the use of AI that’s out there, we want to measure what’s working and what’s not working. If you think about COVID, nearly a trillion dollars was spent by governments and families around the world. We spent almost $200 billion in the United States alone. The measurement of what worked and what didn’t work, it’s unclear. And so let’s learn from that lesson of COVID with all the experimentation of ed tech and online learning, and let’s reflect on how can we right now set up baselines, and as we experiment with AI, measure where it’s working and where it’s not working, what skills are working, to Randy’s point, when project-based learning or not. So thinking about different methods, thinking about uses of technology.

Tania Bryer: And AI as an inspirer.

Randi Weingarten: But AI can. So there’s lots of things we know about AI right now. And then in five minutes from now, it’s going to change. Yes. And so I think that part of what, and it may have been, Sherry, you may have said this earlier on, or Prime Minister or Minister, you may have said this earlier on, what do we want kids to know and be able to do? And if we spent some more time doing that. So we want kids to be confident. We want them to be joyful. We want them to be problem solvers. We want them to be collaborators. We want them to critically think. We started thinking about the skill set. I mean, some will be good test takers. But we started thinking about the skill set that we want for them. And we built schools from pre-K on, from early ed on, from when kids are zero to five on because of brain development. I think we’d be in a different position now in terms of thinking about not how to chase AI, but how to harness it. And so that’s why I keep going back to maybe it’s because I’m a teacher as opposed to a supervisor of teachers. I keep thinking about what. of the skills as a teacher, as a classroom teacher, I want to harness for kids. I want to help them create that opportunity. And we don’t do enough about that. And if we did, I think we’d have a lot easier path working with corporations, working with multinationals in terms of then harnessing AI for the future.

Sherrie Westin: Well, I think that’s such an important point, but I think we also need to think about beyond using AI or digital learning in schools. I mean, children are growing up in a de facto digital world, like it or not. And parents are really struggling with how do I manage this? They feel guilty. They’re not, you know, their child is using all sorts of media technology. And one of the things we’re doing, thanks to Google.org, who’s funding research that we’re doing and resources, is really looking at how can we help parents to create resources to give them strategies for what we call digital well-being. To help build a foundation at a young age, to help build a healthy relationship with children and media. Give those parents some, again, opportunities. Really important to help them know how to use the technology and then transition to real life experiences, similar to how do you create content that’s intended or technology to be a catalyst. And one of the things we’re trying to work with developers of technology and AI, often new technologies aren’t created without anyone thinking of children. Children always gravitate to them. So we need to encourage and sort of help. And use them in a better way than us. Yes. And help those creating those technologies to have children in mind and not as an afterthought. Yeah.

Tania Bryer: What do they need?

Amit Sevak: Let’s talk about what skills that we’re starting to get a consensus around. As you start talking to governments and companies and parents. There’s not complete consensus, but there’s growing consensus of five, seven core skill sets. And you talk about communication skills, collaboration, creativity. People use different words, but largely we’re talking about a set of human skills, as we talked about earlier. A set of durable skills, what used to be called soft skills. In a world where more and more gets automated, these human skills start to really take on more power. That’s what builds connectivity, that’s what builds that human quality in this world of machines. More and more governments are starting to say, you know what, there’s a portrait of a graduate out there. There’s a portrait of what I want a high school graduate or a university graduate to have. And over and over these skills are out there. So one of the things we started doing at ETS is starting to say, what if we imagined a skills transcript? So just like an academic transcript, when somebody graduates from high school or college, the list of grades, I took algebra, I took biology, I took this, I took history. What if we said, yes, we want an academic transcript with the grades, but we want to now think about skills. If we go back to Sherry’s point on younger children, the competencies, we really focus on those in elementary school. Think about an elementary school report card. It’s much more competency focused, but when we get to middle school and high school, we get into this pre-college state of mind. And we miss the opportunity to get those fundamental human skills to be reinforced throughout. So that skill transcripts, I mean, imagine a world where every single child had a skill transcript.

Randi Weingarten: So let’s be even more revolutionary.

Amit Sevak: Let’s do it.

Randi Weingarten: Which is, why don’t we transform high school? Because all throughout the world, college is precatory. For most democracies of the world, look at what Rwanda is doing. Junior high school and high school are now where kids are starting to become adults. So why don’t we open the aperture in terms of junior high school and high school in particular, knowing your point about early ed and literacy and things like that, start actually really being intentional about those skills as opposed to intentional about a transcript. So what are the modalities? So that’s why I’m very big on career ed training and pathways in high school. People used to say, what happened to shop? Yeah, shop, industrial arts, all that, but what can project-based learning can help teach a lot of those skills? We’ve learned in the United States, not only that 60% of kids don’t go to college, 60%, or don’t complete college, don’t go to college in the United States, but we also know in these career tech ed programs, which are hugely popular with families and with parents, what they, 95% of kids graduate from high school and 70% go to college. So if we actually transformed high school to be around those fundamental skills that will transform the revolution around AI and will be meaningful in five years from now as well as now, think about what we could do. And that’s why I’m saying, let’s open the aperture in terms of high school to be about those fundamental skills.

Sherrie Westin: And learn them at that stage.

Randi Weingarten: Exactly.

Sherrie Westin: And while they may be the same, as those skills, you would want them to be learning in those early years. It is creative problem solving. It is when they’re forming their sense of self and empowerment, it is agility, it is the ability to cooperate, coordinate, you know, a lot of this would be, I think, completely consistent. It’s like that book. Just starting early.

Amit Sevak: Everything you need to learn in kindergarten.

Sherrie Westin: Or you could learn on Sesame Street.

Randi Weingarten: But I think the reason I’m focused, you know, the reason I have changed my focus to junior high school and high school is because that’s when we lose kids. Think about what happens. I mean, this is what I learned in COVID, the loneliness epidemic, the dislocation, disorientation. And if we need to find a way that we reconnect with kids so that that confidence, that sense that the world is their oyster.

Tania Bryer: How do we do that? How do you do that? To give those skills of self-confidence, of self-esteem without human interaction. And of course, technology is a wonderful tool to access, for accessing education to everyone that might not be able to have that. But can you do that?

Randi Weingarten: Well, that’s why one of the things I learned from COVID is that place-based learning is really vital and having something called school. Now, I don’t know enough about every aspect of the world, although I love what you just said about IRC, that you, but in America per se, school is pretty much now the last remaining institution that parents really trust and people trust. So if we could actually think about school as a place of socialization, school as a place of human endeavor, wrap services around school for parents. So the agency that Sesame Street did with TV, let’s think about school as a way of doing that for the entire family.

Tania Bryer: Let me ask you, Minister, what about security? What about in terms of digital platforms increasing, obviously in education, what steps do you and the Ministry of Education take to implement robust cybersecurity to protect data?

Joseph Nsengimana: Well, that’s a very, very important point you’re raising here. When we have young people interacting in the cyber world, We need to be careful and we need to put measures in place to ensure that they are safe. Think of this even from the physical world. You don’t send your five-year-old out on the street to cross the street to get you something when you know there are cars passing by. So why would you send them to a cyber world when you know these dangers are there? So we need to have not only the foresight of making sure that these measures are put in place, but they have to be backed by policy and laws that protect our kids with that. And so for us, we have enacted laws which are intended to protect everybody, but mainly children as they use technology. And then we have an awareness campaign to ensure that the kids know what they can and what they should do when they’re actually interacting with technology. But we also go a step further and get parents engaged and make sure the parents can guide them. And of course, the teachers at school, they iterate this and make sure that the kids are being told as they access technology why the dangers, what to look for, and so on and so forth. So I think that’s really one thing we have to make sure across the board, not just in Rwanda, that kids are protected in this world because they’re going to interact with it quite often now going forward, right? More and more.

Tania Bryer: More and more.

Joseph Nsengimana: And since I have the floor, I’ll talk about the assessment that you raised. I think that the philosophy around assessment, it needs to change, right? It’s not about testing for the sake of testing. Assessment, the philosophical assessment is to say, I taught you something. How do I know you actually learned it? That’s what assessment is about. It’s actually for me as a teacher, I want to make sure that. all my effort actually paid off. And if they didn’t, then figure out how to adjust.

Tania Bryer: Yeah, exactly.

Joseph Nsengimana: So that the child can learn. Just in time.

Tania Bryer: Yes, just in time.

Joseph Nsengimana: Not six months later. No, no, no. Exactly, exactly. You don’t have to wait for a year or two years or 10 years to have this huge test. But rather, how am I doing this as I go along to ensure that learning is actually taking place, right? Around that. And I think that goes back to defining what are you trying to do? At the end of the day, what do you want to see? If you say, I want to see a child who’s creative, a child who’s confident, a child who knows his environment and how to navigate technology. My question to you is, how are you going to know you did that?

Randi Weingarten: So I taught at a school called Clara Barton High School for the Health Professions in Crown Heights, Brooklyn. And it was a career tech ed school. And I taught APGov. Yes, it was the dinosaur years. It was in the 90s, before No Child Left Behind in the US. And I watched my kids who competed in, who were all black and brown, who competed in civil, in debates about the Constitution, civil rights. And I watched them go from looking down at their shoes, never looking in people’s eyes, wondering whether they were going to be able to compete with these schools in the suburbs. So it’s a New York City public school, Title I school. And watching them go through that process of not only being able to debate, not only being able to apply learning, but also competing with kids from other places in the country and other places in the state, and watching that confidence grow. That’s when I started becoming a big believer in project-based learning. Because you saw that change. You saw that. acquisition of knowledge, you saw that creativity, you saw that being able to fall, stumble and get up again. And that’s what I think we miss because we take the shortcuts of a test as opposed to really doing this kind of performance work, really trying to think through how we help kids get to their God-given potential.

Amit Sevak: This is exactly, exactly where tech and learning can vibe. The reason I took this job at ETS is because I fundamentally believe in the science of measurement, but that we have to change testing. We have to change that notion of a multiple choice test of a number two pencil. I mean, all of that is the traditional infrastructure of validating curriculum, the old industrial educational model. The future of assessment is really about understanding what people know and can do. It’s more than just the knowledge, it’s the behavioral aspect. And so to your earlier question of how do we do this, first we have to agree on what are the skills that we need in the future. And then the how has to do with much more dynamic assessment models, much more getting back to basics of measuring at the skill level and much more alignment so that we are developing valid, unbiased, and fair assessments. And it’s not about accountability for financial purposes. It’s actually to empower the student, to empower the family. We want to give back agency to students. Self-assessments are a huge part of this. It’s not just about assessments to help someone else evaluate you. It’s I know my strengths. It’s to make my invisible more visible. And that’s the power of dynamic tech-enabled, AI-enabled assessments. We do 50 million assessments a year. We’re modernizing all of them. They’re all AI-enabled. And I believe that fundamentally if we spent more time thinking about it exactly as we’re just having a discussion here, reimagining the science of measurement with AI, we can do a lot of good. We can have much more dynamic and regular assessments, daily assessments, immediate real-time feedback. It can really make a big difference.

Sherrie Westin: It’s what, and there was a recent panel earlier, but it was about AI is as good as the input and making sure you’ve decided what the metrics are that you’re measuring. The other thing I was gonna mention from Sesame Street, I mean, I so agree with you and it’s research. It’s how important the research is. It’s how important we are recognizing what we need to measure. But if you think about when Sesame, every season is an all new experiment. Different countries may have different curricular focuses, whether it’s girls’ education or overcoming trauma, what have you. But so let’s say this last season, it’s emotional wellbeing. Because with the mental health crisis, not only in the US, but around the world, people don’t realize that really starts young. And we’ve done entire curriculum around helping children have strategies for emotional wellbeing, help them to build that strong foundation. So what are you testing? You’re not testing letters and numbers. You’re testing to make sure, okay, we first do needs assessments with children always. Second, we’re doing these formative evaluations, creating content, sitting with children, watching them react, making sure that they are taking away that belly breathing lesson from Elmo. Testing to make sure, when I say testing, it’s watching to make sure that the outcomes we set out are, and when it doesn’t, then that informs the creative process and you’re iterating. And then at the end, of course, it’s that final summative to say, did we have the outcomes we set out to? As a nonprofit, we have to do that to prove impact and to warrant investing in our work. But at the same time, we really, especially in the work in the Middle East, we invested 15 million into research because there’s a dearth of research on what’s most effective for young children in crisis context. But we’re sharing it with the world. We want them to not only see what worked, but we want people to see what didn’t work so they can learn from our-

Randi Weingarten: And off of that, off of that, something that the Netherlands. does, the Netherlands do, but very few other countries do, which is have a lab, MIT does it, but have a lab of educators of business to really start doing what you are doing in Sesame Street, thinking about how we can support educators through this change process. A lot of us, look, I’ve been in education for a long time. A lot of us can create great pilots. We can create great one-offs. I’ve done any number in my time. How do we sustain? How do we scale? How do we make sure every child in Rwanda has that opportunity? And so if we can focus on not only changing schools to meet the needs of the world, to meet the needs of business, to meet the needs of countries, to meet the needs of kids and families having a better life, that is the purpose. But we have to find ways that business and educators work together, that not-for-profits work with everyone. And so what the Netherlands is doing is they have this kind of state or national lab that they’re working on together. We should be doing that in more countries.

Tania Bryer: More collaboration. I’m going to stop you there for one second because I want our wonderful audience to be able to ask a question. We have a couple of minutes from questions from our audience. So please stand up. The microphone will come to you. Yes, we have a few minutes.

Audience: My name is Hawa Mufsi. I’m a global shaper. So as we’re speaking about learning, I think it is seemingly impossible to separate technology and learning in this age that we are in. And more and more younger generation are using the digital platform to learn. So, and we brought on the aspect of assessment, assessing like what skills you have and your competencies as a learner. So, what are the strategies that can be used to kind of regulate or unify the content that is being consumed online so that it could be assessed?

Tania Bryer: It’s a very good question, regulation. You’re knowing him with real power. Minister.

Joseph Nsengimana: Everybody looks at me. But I think that’s a valid point you’re raising around regulating, but it’s also, we need to be mindful and balanced in our approach to that. Because at the same time, we don’t want to stifle innovation. So, you want to regulate and make sure that what’s being delivered is not harmful to the consumers and it’s in line with what you are trying to accomplish. But at the same time, you want to leave room for people to be creative and for young people to also have a choice within a safe parameter around that. So, that’s what I say around that. Which raises another point around AI. We talked about AI quite often. AI is actually built on data. And so, if you have erroneous data, you get erroneous results. So, we want to make sure that data upon which we are building these models is actually clean and it’s actually relevant and contextualized in our own reality. So, we can’t really import these models. They have to be homegrown. And so, I think that also speaks to. regulating that you’re talking about, how are these models being built? On whose data are they being built on, on top of? Otherwise, there is a lot of biases built into it that we want to be very careful when you use these models.

Randi Weingarten: And this will be, there will be a real issue around the world about what countries are regulating and what countries are divesting from regulation. Because if we divest from regulation on safety, let’s just take deepfakes. Say we divest from regulation on deepfakes. Somebody God forbid could start a nuclear war with a deepfake that looks real of a country challenging another country, saying they are sending the bombs. So, and then when you get to education, what happens if we don’t regulate about bullying and about safety and security? So the question you ask has so many important layers about what do we do in terms of basic fundamental liberty and precepts, and if we don’t do that around the world and if we don’t do that in America, how are we going to do, then it becomes your job, or then it becomes the classroom teacher’s job to figure it out on top of everything else she’s doing.

Amit Sevak: And this notion of getting multiple stakeholders engaged and building those guidelines is going to be critical. Government plays an important role, families play an important role. This point around the technology company’s role, I just think back to my own, I have a teenager at home, and he learns an incredible amount on YouTube, an incredible amount using generative AI, chat GPT and other tools. He’s learning an extraordinary amount outside of formal classroom, and there’s content there, and there’s kind, you know, formal, structured, informal. We don’t want to stifle the innovation, stifle the opportunity for that to come through. It’s creative. It’s engaging, it’s often entertaining, but at the same time providing safe guidelines. So engaging with the tech companies effectively is going to be critical.

Tania Bryer: That means I don’t want to stifle you, I apologize, but we’ve come to the end of the session. We could be here for so long. I wanted to ask you a very, very, very quick final question. If you could bring one groundbreaking technology into education, what would it be? And it could have to be one word answer.

Amit Sevak: Real-time pep talks.

Randi Weingarten: Real-time project-based learning and gaming.

Sherrie Westin: Catalyst for more engagement.

Joseph Nsengimana: Human skills.

Tania Bryer: Human skills. With that, thank you so much for joining me on this very crucial discussion. Thank you to everyone here and to our online audience. Thank you for joining us. Thank you.

Agreement Points

Importance of integrating technology with human-centered learning

speakers

– Joseph Nsengimana
– Sherrie Westin
– Randi Weingarten
– Amit Sevak

arguments

Integrating human dimension with technology in teaching

Using technology to reach underserved communities at scale

Focusing on fundamental human and technological skills

Reimagining measurement and assessment through technology

summary

All speakers emphasized the need to use technology as a tool to enhance human-centered learning experiences, rather than replacing human interaction entirely.

Focus on developing critical skills for the future

speakers

– Joseph Nsengimana
– Sherrie Westin
– Randi Weingarten
– Amit Sevak

arguments

Focusing on fundamental human and technological skills

Emphasizing social-emotional learning and engagement

Transforming high school to teach essential skills

Creating skills transcripts alongside academic transcripts

summary

The speakers agreed on the importance of developing both human and technological skills that are essential for the future workforce and society.

Need for reimagining assessment and measurement in education

speakers

– Joseph Nsengimana
– Sherrie Westin
– Randi Weingarten
– Amit Sevak

arguments

Changing philosophy around assessment to focus on learning

Conducting research to measure impact of educational initiatives

Using project-based learning for skill development

Implementing dynamic, AI-enabled assessments

summary

All speakers advocated for a shift in assessment methods to focus on measuring skills, competencies, and learning outcomes rather than traditional testing.

Similar Viewpoints

Both speakers emphasized the importance of leveraging technology to expand access to education while ensuring safety and protection for children online.

speakers

– Joseph Nsengimana
– Sherrie Westin

arguments

Ensuring cybersecurity and child protection online

Using technology to reach underserved communities at scale

Both speakers advocated for more dynamic and practical assessment methods that focus on skill development and real-time feedback.

speakers

– Randi Weingarten
– Amit Sevak

arguments

Using project-based learning for skill development

Implementing dynamic, AI-enabled assessments

Unexpected Consensus

Importance of early childhood education in technology integration

speakers

– Sherrie Westin
– Randi Weingarten

arguments

Emphasizing social-emotional learning and engagement

Transforming high school to teach essential skills

explanation

Despite their different focus areas (early childhood and high school education), both speakers unexpectedly agreed on the importance of integrating technology and essential skills development from an early age.

Overall Assessment

Summary

The speakers showed strong agreement on the need to integrate technology with human-centered learning, focus on developing critical skills for the future, and reimagine assessment methods in education.

Consensus level

High level of consensus among all speakers, indicating a shared vision for the future of education that balances technological innovation with human skills development. This consensus suggests a promising direction for educational policy and practice that combines the benefits of technology with a focus on essential human skills and competencies.

Different Viewpoints

Role of technology in education

speakers

– Joseph Nsengimana
– Randi Weingarten

arguments

Expanding infrastructure and access to digital learning

Integrating human dimension with technology in teaching

summary

While Joseph Nsengimana emphasizes expanding digital infrastructure and access, Randi Weingarten stresses the importance of integrating technology as a supplement to human interaction rather than a replacement.

Focus of educational transformation

speakers

– Joseph Nsengimana
– Randi Weingarten

arguments

Focusing on fundamental human and technological skills

Transforming high school to teach essential skills

summary

Joseph Nsengimana advocates for a broad focus on both human and technological skills throughout education, while Randi Weingarten emphasizes transforming high school specifically to teach essential skills.

Unexpected Differences

Regulation of online content

speakers

– Joseph Nsengimana
– Randi Weingarten

arguments

Ensuring cybersecurity and child protection online

Addressing concerns about over-reliance on technology

explanation

While both speakers address online safety, Joseph Nsengimana unexpectedly emphasizes the need for balance in regulation to avoid stifling innovation, whereas Randi Weingarten strongly advocates for more comprehensive regulation to prevent potential misuse of technology.

Overall Assessment

summary

The main areas of disagreement revolve around the role of technology in education, the focus of educational transformation, and the approach to assessment and skill development.

difference_level

The level of disagreement among the speakers is moderate. While they share common goals of improving education through technology, they differ in their approaches and priorities. These differences reflect the complexity of integrating technology in education and highlight the need for a multifaceted approach that considers various perspectives and contexts.

Partial Agreements

Both speakers agree on the need to change assessment methods, but Amit Sevak focuses on technology-driven solutions like AI-enabled assessments, while Randi Weingarten emphasizes project-based learning as a means of assessment.

speakers

– Amit Sevak
– Randi Weingarten

arguments

Reimagining measurement and assessment through technology

Using project-based learning for skill development

Both speakers agree on using technology to improve access to education, but Sherrie Westin focuses on content delivery through various media platforms, while Joseph Nsengimana emphasizes building physical infrastructure and internet connectivity.

speakers

– Sherrie Westin
– Joseph Nsengimana

arguments

Using technology to reach underserved communities at scale

Expanding infrastructure and access to digital learning

Similar Viewpoints

Both speakers emphasized the importance of leveraging technology to expand access to education while ensuring safety and protection for children online.

speakers

– Joseph Nsengimana
– Sherrie Westin

arguments

Ensuring cybersecurity and child protection online

Using technology to reach underserved communities at scale

Both speakers advocated for more dynamic and practical assessment methods that focus on skill development and real-time feedback.

speakers

– Randi Weingarten
– Amit Sevak

arguments

Using project-based learning for skill development

Implementing dynamic, AI-enabled assessments

Key Takeaways

Technology and learning can and should ‘vibe’ together, but integration needs to be thoughtful and purposeful

There’s a need to focus on developing fundamental human skills alongside technological skills in education

Assessment and measurement in education need to be reimagined to focus on learning outcomes and skills development

Collaboration between educators, policymakers, and technology companies is crucial for effective integration of technology in education

Early childhood education and development of social-emotional skills are critical foundations for future learning

Resolutions and Action Items

Expand infrastructure and access to digital learning, especially in underserved communities

Develop skills transcripts alongside academic transcripts to measure a broader range of competencies

Implement more dynamic, AI-enabled assessments that provide real-time feedback

Transform high school education to focus more on essential skills development and project-based learning

Unresolved Issues

How to effectively regulate online educational content without stifling innovation

How to scale successful educational technology pilots and initiatives to reach all students

How to address potential biases in AI models used in education

How to balance screen time and technology use with human interaction in learning

Suggested Compromises

Use technology as a supplement to, not a replacement for, human teaching and interaction

Balance regulation of educational technology with room for innovation and creativity

Combine traditional academic transcripts with new skills-based assessments

So while 97% of the population is covered, it’s not that 97% of the population is actually using it. And so we need to extend first and foremost, not only the coverage, but the access to that coverage.

speaker

Joseph Nsengimana

reason

This comment challenges the initial framing of Rwanda’s ICT development by highlighting the important distinction between coverage and actual access/usage.

impact

It shifted the discussion towards the practical challenges of implementing technology in education, beyond just infrastructure.

So Sesame Street started as an experiment with funding from Ford Foundation, Carnegie Corporation, Department of Education to see if television could teach. Now think of it, television was the new technology of the day.

speaker

Sherrie Westin

reason

This historical context provides a valuable perspective on using new technologies for education, drawing parallels between past and present challenges.

impact

It broadened the conversation to consider how lessons from past educational innovations could inform current approaches to technology in learning.

How do you create a permission structure? How do you create a collaborative environment so that this is not a replacement theory, but one where technology is supplementing what we are doing so that the human dimension is always in the forefront?

speaker

Randi Weingarten

reason

This comment raises crucial questions about integrating technology without losing the essential human aspects of education.

impact

It steered the discussion towards the importance of balancing technological advancements with human-centered teaching approaches.

We just completed a human progress report at ETS. And we find that the incredible, incredible impact that individuals are feeling right now around measurement is now more than ever. People really want to get those kinds of signals. They want to see studies. They want to see evidence around this.

speaker

Amit Sevak

reason

This insight highlights the growing demand for evidence-based approaches in education and measurement.

impact

It introduced the importance of scientific measurement and evidence in educational technology, leading to a discussion on assessment and skills measurement.

Why don’t we transform high school? Because all throughout the world, college is precatory. For most democracies of the world, look at what Rwanda is doing. Junior high school and high school are now where kids are starting to become adults.

speaker

Randi Weingarten

reason

This comment challenges the traditional educational structure and proposes a radical rethinking of secondary education.

impact

It sparked a discussion about reimagining education systems to better prepare students for the future, focusing on skills development rather than just academic knowledge.

Overall Assessment

These key comments shaped the discussion by broadening its scope from a narrow focus on technology implementation to a more comprehensive examination of education transformation. They highlighted the need to balance technological innovation with human-centered approaches, emphasized the importance of evidence-based practices and measurement, and challenged traditional educational structures. The conversation evolved from discussing infrastructure and access to exploring deeper questions about the purpose of education, the role of technology in learning, and how to prepare students for a rapidly changing world.

How can we create a permission structure and collaborative environment where technology supplements rather than replaces human interaction in education?

speaker

Randi Weingarten

explanation

This is important to ensure technology enhances rather than diminishes the human dimension of learning.

How can we measure what’s working and what’s not working with AI and ed tech implementations in education?

speaker

Amit Sevak

explanation

This is crucial to understand the effectiveness of new technologies and ensure they are actually improving learning outcomes.

How can we transform high school to be more intentional about teaching fundamental skills that will be relevant in the AI revolution and beyond?

speaker

Randi Weingarten

explanation

This is important to better prepare students for the future workforce and society.

How can we develop technologies and AI with children’s needs in mind from the start, rather than as an afterthought?

speaker

Sherrie Westin

explanation

This is crucial to ensure new technologies are appropriate and beneficial for children’s development and learning.

How can we implement robust cybersecurity measures to protect children’s data and ensure their safety in digital learning environments?

speaker

Tania Bryer (directed to Joseph Nsengimana)

explanation

This is essential to safeguard children as they increasingly interact with technology for learning.

How can we change the philosophy around assessment to focus on real-time feedback and learning outcomes rather than just testing?

speaker

Joseph Nsengimana

explanation

This is important to make assessment more meaningful and supportive of the learning process.

How can we scale successful educational pilots and innovations to ensure every child has access to quality learning opportunities?

speaker

Randi Weingarten

explanation

This is crucial to address educational inequalities and improve outcomes for all students.

What strategies can be used to regulate or unify online learning content so that it can be properly assessed?

speaker

Audience member (Hawa Mufsi)

explanation

This is important to ensure quality and consistency in online learning while still allowing for innovation.

How can we ensure AI models used in education are built on clean, relevant, and contextualized data to avoid biases?

speaker

Joseph Nsengimana

explanation

This is crucial to prevent the perpetuation of biases and ensure AI tools are effective for diverse learners.