IN CONVERSATION WITH BIRAME SOCK

Summary

This interview features Birame N. Sock, a technologist and entrepreneur, discussing her journey and current venture, Qweli. Sock, born in Senegal, studied computer science in the US and became involved in several successful tech startups, including Shazam. She describes her early curiosity about technology and the challenges she faced as a woman and an African in the tech industry, including skepticism from investors and the need to prove herself constantly.

Sock explains her decision to return to Senegal and start Qweli, a B2B wholesale sourcing marketplace for African products. She details the unexpected challenges in developing the business, including the need to adapt to local cultural norms and address gaps in product standards and packaging. The venture evolved from a purely technological platform to encompass the entire value chain of product development and marketing.

The discussion highlights Sock’s role as an UNCTAD E-Trade for Women Advocate, emphasizing the importance of representation and mentorship for women in technology. She stresses the need for inclusive policymaking that involves entrepreneurs and innovators. Sock advises aspiring entrepreneurs to embrace failure as a learning opportunity, iterate on their ideas, and be open to pivoting when necessary.

Throughout the interview, Sock emphasizes the importance of curiosity, adaptability, and perseverance in entrepreneurship. She also discusses the challenges and opportunities of bridging cultural differences and bringing African products to the global market. The conversation concludes with Sock encouraging entrepreneurs to take action, learn from experiences, and recognize opportunities as they arise.

Keypoints

Major discussion points:

– Birame Sock’s journey as a woman entrepreneur in technology

– Challenges faced as an African woman in the tech industry

– The creation and development of Kweli, a B2B marketplace for African products

– The importance of adaptability and pivoting in entrepreneurship

– Empowering women in the digital economy, especially in developing countries

Overall purpose:

The goal of this discussion was to highlight Birame Sock’s experiences as a successful tech entrepreneur and to inspire other women, particularly those from developing countries, to pursue careers in technology and entrepreneurship. It also aimed to shed light on the challenges and opportunities in bringing African products to the global marketplace.

Tone:

The tone of the discussion was largely inspirational and encouraging. It began with a focus on Birame’s personal journey and achievements, then shifted to a more reflective and advisory tone as she discussed the challenges she faced and the lessons she learned. The conversation concluded on an empowering note, with Birame offering motivational advice to aspiring entrepreneurs.

Speakers

– Isabelle Kumar

Role: Interviewer/Host

– Birame N. Sock

Expertise: Technology, Entrepreneurship

Roles:

– Founder of Qweli (B2B wholesale sourcing marketplace)

– Former executive and entrepreneur in the US

– UNCTAD’s E-Trade for Women Advocate

– Involved in the development of Shazam

Additional speakers:

None identified

Expanded Summary of Discussion with Birame N. Sock

This comprehensive report summarizes an interview featuring Birame N. Sock, a technologist and entrepreneur, discussing her journey in the tech industry and her current venture, Qweli. The discussion, hosted by Isabelle Kumar, covered various aspects of Sock’s career, the challenges she faced, and her insights on entrepreneurship and women’s empowerment in technology.

1. Birame N. Sock’s Background and Early Experiences

Born in Senegal, Birame N. Sock’s early exposure to technology was influenced by her father’s work with UNICEF. This international upbringing shaped her perspective and adaptability. Sock pursued computer science education in the United States, setting the foundation for her future in tech.

Sock’s journey was characterized by curiosity and adaptability. She reflected on the complexity of defining her identity, having lived in multiple countries. This multicultural background would later prove valuable in her entrepreneurial endeavors.

2. Entry into the Tech Industry

Sock’s entry into the tech world was organic rather than planned. She remarked, “I never knew I was an entrepreneur when I think about it. I just never knew what I really wanted to do and where I wanted to go and who I wanted to be.” This approach led her to various opportunities, including working with the team that developed Shazam, though she clarified that she was not the sole creator.

As a woman and an African in the tech industry, Sock faced significant challenges, including skepticism from investors and the constant need to prove herself. However, she used these obstacles as motivation to demonstrate her capabilities.

3. Development of Qweli Marketplace

Sock’s current venture, Qweli, is a B2B wholesale sourcing marketplace for African products. The idea was inspired by the lack of visibility for quality African products in the global market. Qweli’s development faced unexpected challenges, particularly in adapting to local cultural norms in Senegal and addressing gaps in product standards and packaging.

The venture evolved significantly from its initial concept as a purely technological platform. Sock explained that Qweli now encompasses the entire value chain of product development and marketing, providing comprehensive support to African producers. This evolution highlighted the importance of flexibility and responsiveness to market needs in entrepreneurship.

Sock shared an illuminating anecdote about the cultural differences she encountered: “I had to actually teach the team how to introduce themselves, how to speak louder because at conference, when we’re in the conference room at meetings, I couldn’t hear anyone. And I was just like, you need to sit up and speak loud and speak with confidence.” This example illustrated the complexities of bridging cultural norms with international business practices.

4. Empowering Women in Technology

Sock emphasized the critical role of representation and mentorship for women in technology. As an UNCTAD E-Trade for Women Advocate, she uses her position to give voice to underrepresented groups and bridge the gap between policymakers and entrepreneurs. Sock stressed the need for women’s involvement in policymaking to ensure that policies are beneficial and aligned with industry needs.

5. Advice for Entrepreneurs

Drawing from her experiences, including her time on the board of a public company, Sock offered valuable advice for aspiring entrepreneurs:

– Be willing to pivot based on market feedback

– Embrace failure as a learning opportunity

– Start small and iterate to grow the business

– Use agile methodology in entrepreneurship

She emphasized the importance of adaptability, particularly when introducing new concepts or entering new markets. Sock’s advice to “be willing to pivot” encapsulates a key lesson in entrepreneurship, especially when innovating in unfamiliar territories.

6. Challenges and Opportunities in African Entrepreneurship

The discussion highlighted the unique challenges of bringing African products to the global market, including difficulties in listing products on platforms like Amazon due to packaging and standardization issues. Sock’s experience with Qweli demonstrated the need for comprehensive support systems for African producers to compete globally.

7. Role of Public-Private Partnerships

Sock emphasized the value of public-private partnerships in the tech sector, particularly in developing countries. She stressed the importance of involving entrepreneurs and innovators in policy discussions to create more effective and flexible policies that support innovation. Sock stated, “Having the ability to be part of the discussion during policymaking or during the implementation phase I think is what’s going to change a lot.”

Conclusion

Birame N. Sock’s journey from Senegal to Silicon Valley and back again illustrates the power of curiosity, adaptability, and perseverance in entrepreneurship. Her experiences highlight the unique challenges faced by women and entrepreneurs from developing countries in the tech industry. The key takeaways for aspiring entrepreneurs, particularly women and those from developing countries, include:

1. Embrace your diverse background as a strength in navigating global markets.

2. Be prepared to adapt your business model based on local realities and market feedback.

3. Seek opportunities to participate in policy-making to ensure supportive environments for innovation.

4. Start small, iterate, and don’t fear failure – view it as a learning opportunity.

5. Recognize the importance of cultural understanding in international business.

Sock’s story demonstrates that success in the tech industry is not just about technological innovation, but also about understanding and bridging cultural gaps, adapting to local contexts, and persistently working towards creating value in underserved markets.

Isabelle Kumar: So, hello and welcome everybody. I’m joined by Baram Sok. Now, Baram is pushing the boundaries of technology and she has over two decades of experience as a technologist, an entrepreneur and as an executive. Now, let’s put it like this, she’s the brains behind Shazam, need I say more, which revolutioned my life, I don’t know if it changed yours. But anyway, after successful exits in the United States, Baram returned to her home country, Senegal, and there she launched Qweli, and that’s a pioneering B2B wholesale sourcing marketplace and it’s aimed at showcasing and empowering African products at the global scale. So, in 2022, to add to this rather impressive CV, Baram was nominated E-Trade for Women Advocate by the United Nations, a job which is extremely important because she champions more gender equality in the digital space. So, welcome, welcome to our program here, our interview at UNCTAD E-Week. So, as I was saying, you were born in Senegal and you stayed and then went to the United States for university and studied at the University of Miami, where you stayed on. And then you quickly took to entrepreneurship and as I said, you launched several ventures, including Shazam, music recognition.

Birame N. Sock: It was in partnership, but yes, I’d like to clarify to make sure that those that were really also behind it get the credit, but yes.

Isabelle Kumar: Which goes to the importance of partnership, isn’t it? I mean,that’s one of the really resounding messages that’s coming out here. But you know, you’ve had an amazing journey so far and you’re still so young. Oh, thank you. When you said the 20 years, I said, oh, goodness. I would tell you how long I’ve been a journalist. So, can you share with us some of the pivotal moments in your journey? Wow.

Birame N. Sock: It’s interesting when you ask that question. I think when I look at it, I never knew I was an entrepreneur when I think about it. I just never knew what I really wanted to do and where I wanted to go and who I wanted to be. I think the first step for me, what really shaped me was already just this idea that my father actually worked for the UN, for UNICEF. And so, we had this opportunity to travel as children and live in different countries. And so, I think that already gave me this sense of looking at the entire world, adapting and seeing the differences between people in the different countries we lived in and realizing that there’s so much out there. Whatever you learn in one country, you go somewhere else and there’s so much out there. So, I was just a curious child. I always wanted to learn things. My father and both of my parents will tell you that I used to basically unscrew all of the VCR tapes. I’m not trying to age myself. They must have liked that. Yes, just because I wanted to understand how it worked. When we had those little video games, I would open it up because I was curious to figure out how it worked. And so, I think that was one of the main things is just having that opportunity to discover. But then going to the United States for college, that was just another eye-opening for me, an eye-opener. We didn’t speak good English. So, I had to learn English. I still remember the first time I had to use an ATM machine. I was very confused and couldn’t figure out how to make it work.

Isabelle Kumar: So, how old were you around at that point?

Birame N. Sock: I was 17 when I went to college. And I didn’t even know that computer science existed. I was good at math and I started with the idea that I wanted to do broadcasting, which I really loved and still love. But then I was asked to go meet with the advisor who then I asked, what can I do with math? And he said, well, you could go on and get a PhD and start teaching. I was just like, it doesn’t feel like that’s really where I want to go. And so, then I spoke English with a very bad accent. And so, he recognized the fact that I spoke French and said, you know, you should go and meet the dean of the computer science department. He speaks French and maybe he can give you a little bit of an idea of what that is. And that’s how I met him. And he invited me to his class. I came to his class, was the only woman. And that’s how I was introduced to computer science.

Isabelle Kumar: Wow, that’s amazing. So really, curiosity and a chance meeting in some respects, that’s changed your life. That’s a great summary. Yeah. Wow. And so, you know, you’re saying you’re the only woman in the computer science class. Yes. And I imagine being a woman in technology is possibly getting easier. I don’t know. But at the time must have been difficult. So, was that an obstacle? And what other obstacles did you face in your journey?

Birame N. Sock: Interesting. I mean, I don’t even see it as an obstacle. For me, I was just wondering, why are another, this is again, the curiosity part, why are there women in this class, and then trying to understand what was the difference between me as a woman and the other people in the class. And I was thinking, you know what, they’re not smarter than me. I can do this. And so it became more of a challenge for myself. I think the second where I realized that being a woman was maybe holding me back from certain opportunities, was when I, one of my first jobs, it was with a startup. And it was for, we were four developers at the time. And we had a big deal in Europe that was just signed, that required that someone go and install and build a relationship with the customer. And my boss went to the three developers. He passed me, my desk was the first one, and asked each one of them if they would go. And they each had a reason why they couldn’t go. So he passed and said, I’m going to have to hire someone. And I turned around and looked at him and said, what about me? And he said, but are you sure? You don’t really know how the product was because I was building mostly the websites. I said, oh, I can learn. He’s like, okay, we can try that. So I give him credit for that. And I still, I’m still in touch with him. And that’s how I ended up going to Europe and working with a number of wireless operators, SFR, Belgacom, et cetera. And that’s when I learned that there was more to just the code. I really enjoyed communicating with the customers and working through that, but I had to prove myself. I didn’t sleep. I was just like, I told him I could do this, so I have to do this. I didn’t sleep. So I think that the challenge has always been having to work more to be able to be noticed, to be able to be recognized for what you do. And so moving to San Francisco with that same company, because we moved to San Francisco to raise money. When I finally started my first startup, fundraising was a whole other eye opener in terms of, oh, you are a woman, you’re different, and you are going to have to figure out how you’re going to make it. The first question they would always ask me is, where’s your tech team? And then they would tell me, is this a company or features? So they would minimize what I was doing, even though it was music dedication, music recognition. I had deals with all the record labels. I had deals with the major wireless operators. I was in the US and Canada, but they still didn’t see a company because they saw me. And so then a number of them would say, well, for you, we think you should try to get a CEO. And some people went as far as telling me that the CEO had to be male, had to be white, and had to be older than me. That’s how specific they were. And anytime somebody would say that, I would just turn them off and be like, I will show you. And that was kind of, so for me, it was never, it was not a barrier. I always took it in as fuel.

Isabelle Kumar: Yeah. It pushed you harder.

Birame N. Sock: Yeah. I was just like, you are so wrong. I will prove you that you were wrong. And because maybe I always had to adapt to new environments and be, even moving from country to country in Africa, we were a minority in each of those countries, right? Being from Senegal. And so I had to learn how to just embrace that. I told myself, you’re tall, you lived in Miami, they look at you, and the first assumption is, are you a model? And so I had told myself, you know what, take advantage of it to get into the room. So at least when I walked into the room and I left, they didn’t forget me. So that was at least something I could try to use to my advantage, which was as a way to get into the room. But then I knew I had just two minutes of my pitch. I had to switch my pitch around. Two minutes to prove that I knew what I was talking about.

Isabelle Kumar: And that you weren’t, you know, because I think people did probably think, okay, this is a model. She’s this young woman. Then you have to actually break all that down in two minutes.

Birame N. Sock: Right. So in two minutes, I had to just go straight, very technical and speak very deeply about the sector I was in so that they would know that I knew what I was talking about. And then they would listen a little bit more.

Isabelle Kumar: And as you’re saying, you know, you have traveled around the world, you’re from Senegal. Do you think that the fact that you’re also an African woman was a double blindside, was doubly difficult?

Birame N. Sock: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. People have a hard time. I even say to this day, I think some people have a hard time figuring out who I am. And I speak with other women that grew up in the same type of environment. And we all have a little bit of that challenge because we have sort of this traditional side. And then we have this sort of modern side that we picked up when we moved as well. And we were always emancipated in terms of wanting to go to the U.S. to study and wanting to get into fields that were dominated by men. But I think the challenge has been that people tend to like to do business with where there’s less risk and there’s less risk in what you know. And when they meet you, they don’t know who you are and how you are and why you react certain ways. And so you have to work through all of that as soon as you speak an accent. Yeah. They put you, they’re not sure what box to put you in.

Isabelle Kumar: They perceive that there’s less risk, I guess. But I guess your job has been to prove them otherwise. So define Biram Sok then, because now we’re going to move in and find out a bit more about Kweli. But we’ve been trying to define you. So define yourself for us.

Birame N. Sock: I’m trying to figure it out myself. It’s funny because I am a techie. I am a nerd. When I built my first two startups, primarily, I built everything in terms of the whole prototype. So I was programming 48 hours in front of the computer, listening to electronic music and shower. Taking a shower was optional. You know, eating was optional. Sleep was just, OK, that’s just a waste of time. And so after programming, it would take me two, three hours to become a human again, you know, because I was still stuck in my code trying to figure out the bug, et cetera. But at the same time, I like engaging with people because I like learning. I enjoy life. I love cooking, love food, love music. So I think getting into the space of digital media was a good summary for who I was. Because in college, when I would go see the advisors and they would say, what are you studying? And I said, broadcasting and computer science. Everybody would tell me, you need to pick. You can’t do both. And so going into digital media, first going into building music applications for the mobile phone, I got my fix on the content side and the entertainment side, working with the record labels, et cetera. And then I had my fix on the technology side in terms of writing the code and building a technology company. And I was on the board of a public company that acquired entertainment brands, American Idol, got very involved in that. But from a technology perspective, that’s when we came up with the term digital media. Right. And I was just like, that’s me. That’s me. So I’m a confused child, you know, that is that belongs. It was funny. I was speaking with somebody during the event and I was suggesting that it was difficult for me to actually really say where I was from because I feel like I am just from where I’m happy. Even when I go to Senegal, where I truly feel I am from Senegal, I have a Senegalese passport. I never even got the U.S. passport because I wanted to keep my identity. But then I go there and they look at me and they say, you speak with an accent. You’re too American or you’re this or you’re that. So you, you know, you just go with the flow. And I think it’s it’s just it’s just the way it be. But I’m also a mother. I love being a mother. I always wanted 10 children. But I ended up with one because I was just busy with my other kids, which were the companies. But I want to instill in her this idea of being a strong, confident woman, be who you are, but also understand how to navigate through life based on all of your differences, you know, because the world is not always so kind. So you have to figure out where you find your happiness, but also how to conform a bit with the norms so that you’re more accepted than pushed away.

Isabelle Kumar: And I think that advice to your daughter, I think that applies to everybody. And mostly young women kind of branching out in the world, not only tech. So let’s look now at a bit at the birth of Kweli. Yeah, you know, because you left a successful career in the United States. You returned back to Senegal four years ago. Yes. And as I was saying, Kweli is a B2B wholesaling sourcing marketplace. That’s correct. So what inspired you to leave what you knew where you’d settled, where you’d set up your professional career, which was successful, and then take a leap into the semi unknown. But I think it was unknown in the world of business.

Birame N. Sock: It was completely unknown in the world of business. But also I didn’t grow up there. So a bit unknown in terms of just having the support system is my mom and my brothers and sisters. Each of them also had moved back. And so we’re figuring out at different points in time. I think what inspired me with, I mean, I didn’t plan to move. I had been talking about it, as we all do. I mean, every African person that lives in the diaspora will tell you, one day I’m going home. But then you’re like, so when? Just do it. But then you come up with all these reasons why it’s not the right time. I was there on vacation. But then speaking with a friend, we were stuck at the airport. We started talking about the lack of visibility for made in Africa products and how, you know, I’m just like, every time I cook out all these African meals, my friends really enjoy it. I love to entertain and introduce people to all our food. But they, I’m just like, but you can’t find it. And I don’t understand why. And that’s insane. You know what? I will stay. I will do this. And that’s really how it started. And so I went back. I didn’t even tell my family that I had decided to move. But we, I met with a few people in the ecosystem. And I realized that Senegal was actually moving forward. When it came to, we had very, we had initial incubators that had been put in place, like CITIC and Impact Hub. And so I was just like, okay, there is something happening here. The government had just launched there, which is the sort of the investment arm for the government. And they do from micro loans to $200,000 in investments into startups. So I was thinking, you know what, I think, I think this is a good place to be. Something’s happening. It’s that feeling that something’s happening and you just want to be part of it. And And you don’t know what it is, you don’t know where you’re going, but you want to be part of it. And I think that helped me feel comfortable that I could do it. But then I think it’s just when you’re an entrepreneur at the core, you have an idea and it starts here in your stomach. You feel it. It’s a physical reaction to an idea and you have no choice but to go through it. It’s like when you, as a woman, when you get pregnant, you have no choice but to go through labor at some point, right? So that’s to me what it is. So I go through all the different challenges of starting a business and everything because I felt like I was chosen to bring it to life and it’s my responsibility.

Isabelle Kumar: So you’ve had this baby. So how’s it going?

Birame N. Sock: It’s a baby that likes to cry, that’s hungry all the time and that wants to be a teenager, you know, at two years old, you know, basically that’s the kind of baby we’re dealing with. And so we work through it. I think I had to learn myself how to work in Senegal and how to mix the social dynamic with what I had learned from a business standpoint. And sometimes it’s friction between the two. Explain that to us. So culturally, there’s certain things that we are taught from the time we are a baby. We’re taught not to speak about ourselves. We’re taught not to speak too loud, especially in front of people that are older. We’re taught to just respect and believe the person that’s older, right? And so when you come into a business environment and you hire a lot of youth that are from there and that learned all of that, I had to actually teach the team how to introduce themselves, how to speak louder because at conference, when we’re in the conference room at meetings, I couldn’t hear anyone. And I was just like, you need to sit up and speak loud and speak with confidence. And I was told, well, you know, I was told not to speak that loud because it’s disrespectful. I said, not in business. In business, it shows a lack of confidence in what you’re saying. And therefore, they will not buy your product. They will not buy whatever you are trying to get them to convince them of. And so it was some work that needed to be done to get there. And then there are other things such as making the difference between the person and the company. And especially what I’m learning is people are interacting with me based on my background and maybe my successes on my last startups, but they don’t realize that this is a new one that’s completely disconnected from all of that and could fail. And that as an entrepreneur, it’s a level of stress that I have to deal with. In terms of, okay, you’ve set a standard for yourself and now you have to keep it going. But at the same time, you’re starting from zero. You’re learning everything again. Yes, you have advantages because people look at your background and maybe give you a little bit more credibility, but you’re still figuring it out every day.

Isabelle Kumar: And isn’t there, I don’t know, it’s a question actually. Do you feel a greater level of responsibility here because you are trying to bring more of Africa, more of something you really believe in to the global marketplace? Is it more personal?

Birame N. Sock: So Quilly for me is a very interesting experience. It’s very different from anything else I’ve done. I started trying to do it the way I did everything else, which is just the technology, building a B2B marketplace, building a beautiful platform, loving the code, loving everything, right? Oh, this cool feature, look how different it is. It’s going to change the world. And then when it was time, this was during COVID, when it was time to figure out what we were going to sell. I didn’t know what we were going to sell because when I saw the products, I said, oh no, these are not the products that the people I built the platform for are going to buy. Especially when we’re talking about B2B, we’re talking about businesses that have processes, that have integration requirements, that have certification requirements, et cetera. So I looked at it all, I organized a workshop and to be able to first even know what sector I was going to start in, because I couldn’t find the data locally to know what was being exported the most or produced the most in a way that could be exported. So by doing that workshop and just opening it up to all of the different local producers, that’s how I figured out most of them are in food, in cosmetics, and in fashion. So I said, okay, food and cosmetics, it’s about the same standards. And then I offered to do a program, it was supposed to be 90 days, where we were just going to identify what the gaps were between what they had and where they needed to be if we were going to sell to the retailers in the US. Those gaps, I thought, okay, we can just give them a report and they will fix it and we’ll get it done. It took a year where we had to do the work. I had to go and find a network of designers to be able to design the packaging because designing a brochure is very different than designing packaging because a lot of the standards are actually based on the information on the packaging. Get a research person to do pricing research, distribution strategy research, get a quality person to be able to go do all the lab testing, to be able to get the nutritional facts, do partnerships with GS1 to get the right barcodes. And so then I started building all of this because when I would tell them this is what you need to do, they would say, we don’t have the funding for this, we don’t have the resources, we don’t know where to find these resources because I had to then get resources outside of Africa that had experience in this field if we wanted to move faster. And so it turned into an incubation program where we now are saying we want to do this work and we’re going to have to do this work. It went all so far as to us buying the packaging and now doing the filling, packing, labeling. So what started as a technology business has turned into a whole value chain.

Isabelle Kumar: Okay, now I understand the whole baby analogy.

Birame N. Sock: Thank you. So this is a, yes, a very complex baby, but I think it’s a baby that you need to figure out how to grow in stages and say, you know what, you are going through this first year, I’m only going to teach you how to speak, right? And so we’re going to get all of the standards, we’re going to look good, the products are going to look good, and they’re going to communicate and convey Africa and the richness of African products, et cetera. And then the next step is, I’m going to test that, then the next step is I’m now going to teach you how to do math. So now I’m going to figure out how I’m going to position these products internationally, do all the pricing, et cetera. And then now I am actually going to teach you business.

Isabelle Kumar: Are you at the business stage? What stage are you at now?

Birame N. Sock: Now we’re at the business stage. Now we’re at the stage, so we tested for a year with major retailers and hotels in Senegal. That was just a test. It went well. It went very fast. We learned a lot. We made all the mistakes we could make and we took notes and figured out our process. Now we’re starting to have those conversations with the major retailers in the U.S. and getting the feedback and starting to sell. We’re starting even testing on Amazon and realizing that sometimes when you go for certain things on certain platforms, you click on the regions, Africa is missing. When you’re entering certain ingredients, they’re not listed in the dropdown. So you’re having to communicate with support to figure out how they can actually now make sure that they can intake these products that we have. And so this is all allowing us to learn while we still have this goal to launch this B2B marketplace, which is out there, but we believe that’s going to be more of a discovery environment for retailers, for businesses to be able to discover quality made in Africa products in different sectors. So that’s our goal.

Isabelle Kumar: Wow. Okay. That’s probably not what you were thinking would happen when you’re in the airport and you had that idea. So if the Buram of today was able to whisper in the ear of the Buram at the airport, what would you say? And you have 30 seconds before you evaporate.

Birame N. Sock: I would say good luck, girl. That’s my first reaction is good luck, girl. No, I mean, I don’t know that I think about it in that way, because I don’t know that you know until you go through it, especially when you’re trying to introduce something new with a different approach.

Isabelle Kumar: Okay. So let’s turn it around. What’s the most important lesson you’ve learned from this experience so far?

Birame N. Sock: Be willing to pivot. If it’s not working out, if you find there’s a barrier, you need to be willing to pivot when you’re introducing something new or to a new market. You have to listen to what the market is telling you. You can’t be stubborn. If I was stubborn about, no, it has to be 100% technology, I would have shut down by now.

Isabelle Kumar: So that’s very good advice.

Birame N. Sock: So yes. So and if that wasn’t enough.

Isabelle Kumar: So in 2022, Moran was nominated UNCTAD’s E-Trade for Women advocate. So you obviously already had quite a lot on your plate at that point. So what inspired you to embrace this role and what difference do you want to make?

Birame N. Sock: I’ve had to learn how to be okay with the fact that maybe there’s not that many of me and that have gone and lived through the journey I had with all of the blessings and opportunities I was given. I was given the opportunity to go to school by my father when that’s not how it started. That’s not the family I was from. Women were trained to be good housewives. It was considered to be a waste of money to send your child, if they were a girl, to college because she was just going to end up getting married anyways, have kids and not take advantage of her education. I was given the opportunity to be on the board of a public company worth over a billion dollars by someone who just met me and said, I see something in you and I want to give you a chance. He was a billionaire, was not going to make money off of me, but wanted to give me a chance. That’s been my luck. And so having had the opportunity to go as a programmer, to go speak with major customers and be the representative for the company. Even though he skipped me at the beginning, he recognized that in the end. So for me, those blessings and opportunities don’t come every day. They come in different forms to everyone that I believe, but we have to be open to seeing them. And so the question for me is, if I didn’t have anyone else other than those people that helped me, who’s helping those that didn’t get a chance to leave? Who is giving, who is speaking on their behalf? Who is building opportunities for them in the future? And so if there’s not that many of us, we need to be those people and we need to be okay with it and we need to make the time for it. Yes, it takes a lot of time to build your business. It’s frustrating, etc. But we need to make the time to sit. And even if it’s just be an inspiration, because we don’t have enough of them. And if we have them, we’ve had so many women and entrepreneurs that have done amazing things, even in Africa. But the challenge has been that they’ve been wrapped up into their own lives and so many other challenges and cultural differences that say you don’t talk about yourself. So how do we change that? How do we break that? Because how do you tell that little girl you can do it if they don’t see that it’s been done before?

Isabelle Kumar: So what are the really important steps, if we can just narrow it down, that you think would be crucial for creating an environment, especially if we look into developing countries, that would allow women to have the space they deserve in this digital space and in the digital economy?

Birame N. Sock: I mean, I think what UNCTAD is doing just with the E-Trade for Women program is it speaks to everything I just said, right, in terms of giving us the ability to be the voice for those that don’t have the opportunity to be, to have a seat at the table. But I think what that allows us to do as well is to make sure that our policymakers are a bit more aware of what’s happening on the ground. The opportunity we’ve had to be able to speak at the table where you have all these dignitaries that are policymakers, but usually the policy comes to the person that it affects the most already done. And it comes almost, and it’s seen almost as a punishment versus a benefit, versus something I should embrace. We’re actually trying to figure out how to get around the policy. So having the ability to be part of the discussion during policymaking or during the implementation phase I think is what’s going to change a lot. Building those public-private partnerships is very important for where we’re going because technology now is moving so fast. We have to keep up. And so why not speak to those that are actually changing it on a daily basis? Why not bring them to the table? Because they already know where they’re going. And so they can help with the policy to make sure that it’s flexible enough, that it addresses the concerns at the public policy level, but that it also takes into account the future and the flexibility it needs to provide, especially to the private sector, so they can do what they do best, which is innovate, create, execute, make it happen, do things for people that will give them the ability to then go on on their own, not just coming in the form of aid. So I think these are all conversations that we’re able to have, but then we’re now pushing also for the action where we can work together to make it happen.

Isabelle Kumar: Okay. And so this is all extremely inspirational, and I’m going to ask you finally, just to give everybody we’re with today in our virtual space a message, a message maybe to help them if they’re entrepreneurs but are feeling nervous, maybe they’re women and they’re not sure how to go. What’s that message there that comes from your gut as you were saying, you’re going to start a business?

Birame N. Sock: I think the main thing is to just do it. Don’t worry too much about what’s going to happen, because plenty of things are going to happen. It’s all going to come your way. And you have to tell yourself, if you can’t do it, you will find that person that can help you get through it. It’s not something that has to happen alone. You might be alone in being convinced as to the vision and where you’re going, but you need to make sure you bring people along the way. And the people that might be there at the beginning might not be there in the middle of it, but that’s okay. It’s okay. Because you’re still on a journey. It’s an adventure, and when you go out on an adventure, you don’t know what’s going to happen. Just be prepared. To do that, I think the biggest thing, especially as an engineer, programmer, et cetera, I love the agile methodology. It’s about the iterative process. It’s about testing and failing. Embrace that failure. Look at it and say, what did I learn from it? Okay, I’m moving on. Don’t sit there and dwell. So I think it’s just a question of try it, try it, start building it, testing it with your family, testing it with your friends, and then move on to the store in your neighborhood, move on to the city, and that’s how you grow. So the opportunities are out there. It’s for you to go and find them, and for you to also be open so that when they come, you can recognize them.

Isabelle Kumar: Thank you so much, Miriam. I’ve loved this conversation. Thank you. Really appreciate it. And I hope you all have too.

Birame N. Sock: Thank you very much. Really, this is an honor. Thank you.

Agreement points

Importance of representation and mentorship for women in technology

Speakers

– Birame N. Sock
– Isabelle Kumar

Arguments

Importance of representation and mentorship

Using position to give voice to underrepresented groups

Summary

Both speakers emphasize the importance of successful women in tech being visible and using their positions to inspire and create opportunities for others.

Need for women’s involvement in technology policymaking

Speakers

– Birame N. Sock
– Isabelle Kumar

Arguments

Need for women’s involvement in policymaking

Importance of being involved in policy discussions

Summary

Both speakers stress the importance of having women and entrepreneurs involved in technology policymaking to ensure policies are beneficial and aligned with industry needs.

Similar viewpoints

Birame N. Sock views challenges faced as a woman and African in the tech industry as motivation to prove her capabilities rather than insurmountable obstacles.

Speakers

– Birame N. Sock

Arguments

Faced challenges as a woman and African in tech industry

Used obstacles as motivation to prove capabilities

Birame N. Sock emphasizes the importance of connecting policymakers with entrepreneurs and innovators to create more effective and flexible policies that support innovation.

Speakers

– Birame N. Sock

Arguments

Value of public-private partnerships in tech sector

Bridging gap between policymakers and entrepreneurs

Unexpected consensus

Overall assessment

Summary

The main areas of agreement revolve around the importance of representation and involvement of women in technology, both in terms of mentorship and policymaking. There is also a strong emphasis on the need for collaboration between the public and private sectors in shaping technology policies.

Consensus level

There is a high level of consensus between the speakers on the discussed topics. This consensus implies a shared understanding of the challenges faced by women in technology and the importance of their involvement in shaping the future of the industry. The implications suggest a need for continued efforts to promote women’s participation in technology fields and policy discussions.

Different viewpoints

Unexpected differences

Overall assessment

Summary

No significant disagreements were identified in the conversation.

Disagreement level

The level of disagreement was minimal to non-existent. The conversation was primarily an interview format where Birame N. Sock shared her experiences and insights, and Isabelle Kumar asked questions. This format did not lend itself to disagreements or conflicting viewpoints. The lack of disagreement suggests a focus on information sharing and personal narrative rather than debate or discussion of contentious issues.

Partial agreements

Similar viewpoints

Birame N. Sock views challenges faced as a woman and African in the tech industry as motivation to prove her capabilities rather than insurmountable obstacles.

Speakers

– Birame N. Sock

Arguments

Faced challenges as a woman and African in tech industry

Used obstacles as motivation to prove capabilities

Birame N. Sock emphasizes the importance of connecting policymakers with entrepreneurs and innovators to create more effective and flexible policies that support innovation.

Speakers

– Birame N. Sock

Arguments

Value of public-private partnerships in tech sector

Bridging gap between policymakers and entrepreneurs

Key takeaways

Birame N. Sock’s entrepreneurial journey was driven by curiosity and adaptability, overcoming challenges as a woman and African in the tech industry

Kweli marketplace evolved from a tech platform to providing full value chain support for African products, facing both cultural and business challenges in Senegal

Empowering women in technology requires representation, mentorship, and involvement in policymaking

Entrepreneurs should be willing to pivot based on market feedback, embrace failure as a learning opportunity, and start small while iterating to grow

Public-private partnerships and involvement of entrepreneurs in policy discussions are crucial for advancing the tech sector in developing countries

Resolutions and action items

Continue developing Kweli marketplace to showcase quality African products globally

Work towards increasing women’s participation in technology and policymaking through UNCTAD’s E-Trade for Women program

Foster public-private partnerships to inform flexible and forward-looking tech policies

Unresolved issues

Specific strategies for scaling Kweli marketplace beyond initial testing phase

Detailed plans for addressing gaps in infrastructure and resources for African producers

Concrete steps to increase women’s representation in tech leadership roles

Suggested compromises

Balancing traditional cultural norms with business practices when operating in Senegal

Adapting technology platforms to accommodate unique African products and ingredients

I never knew I was an entrepreneur when I think about it. I just never knew what I really wanted to do and where I wanted to go and who I wanted to be.

Speaker

Birame N. Sock

Reason

This reveals how entrepreneurship can emerge organically from curiosity and exploration rather than a predetermined path.

Impact

It set the tone for discussing Sock’s journey as one of discovery and adaptation, leading to deeper exploration of her experiences.

I think the challenge has always been having to work more to be able to be noticed, to be able to be recognized for what you do.

Speaker

Birame N. Sock

Reason

This highlights the additional barriers faced by women, especially women of color, in tech and entrepreneurship.

Impact

It shifted the conversation to focus more explicitly on gender and racial dynamics in the tech industry.

I had to actually teach the team how to introduce themselves, how to speak louder because at conference, when we’re in the conference room at meetings, I couldn’t hear anyone. And I was just like, you need to sit up and speak loud and speak with confidence.

Speaker

Birame N. Sock

Reason

This illustrates the cultural challenges of bringing Western business practices to Africa and the need to bridge different communication norms.

Impact

It deepened the discussion on the complexities of operating a global business with roots in Africa, touching on cultural adaptation.

Be willing to pivot. If it’s not working out, if you find there’s a barrier, you need to be willing to pivot when you’re introducing something new or to a new market.

Speaker

Birame N. Sock

Reason

This encapsulates a key lesson in entrepreneurship, especially when innovating in new markets.

Impact

It provided practical advice for aspiring entrepreneurs and shifted the conversation to focus on adaptability in business.

Having the ability to be part of the discussion during policymaking or during the implementation phase I think is what’s going to change a lot.

Speaker

Birame N. Sock

Reason

This highlights the importance of including entrepreneurs and practitioners in policy discussions.

Impact

It broadened the conversation to include policy implications and the role of public-private partnerships in fostering innovation.

Overall assessment

These key comments shaped the discussion by providing a nuanced view of entrepreneurship, particularly for women and in the African context. They highlighted the personal journey of discovery, the challenges faced due to gender and cultural differences, and the importance of adaptability in business. The conversation evolved from personal anecdotes to broader insights about navigating the tech industry, cultural adaptation, and the role of entrepreneurs in shaping policy. This progression allowed for a rich exploration of the complexities involved in building a global business with African roots while also addressing larger systemic issues.

How can cultural norms be balanced with business practices in African entrepreneurship?

Speaker

Birame N. Sock

Explanation

Birame discussed the challenges of reconciling traditional cultural teachings with modern business practices, particularly in communication styles and self-presentation. This area requires further exploration to develop effective strategies for African entrepreneurs.

What specific policy changes are needed to support women entrepreneurs in the digital space?

Speaker

Birame N. Sock

Explanation

Birame emphasized the importance of including entrepreneurs in policy-making discussions. Further research is needed to identify concrete policy recommendations that would create a more supportive environment for women in the digital economy.

How can e-commerce platforms be adapted to better accommodate African products and businesses?

Speaker

Birame N. Sock

Explanation

Birame mentioned challenges with listing African products on platforms like Amazon, including missing regional options and ingredient listings. This suggests a need for research into how e-commerce platforms can be more inclusive of African businesses.

What are effective strategies for building public-private partnerships in the rapidly evolving technology sector?

Speaker

Birame N. Sock

Explanation

Birame highlighted the importance of public-private partnerships in keeping up with technological advancements. Further exploration of successful models and best practices in this area would be valuable.