(6th meeting) Reconvened concluding session of the Ad Hoc Committee to Elaborate a Comprehensive International Convention on Countering the Use of Information and Communications Technologies for Criminal Purposes

31 Jul 2024 15:00h - 20:00h

Table of contents

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Full session report

Progress and debates mark the sixth meeting of the ICT crime convention committee

During the sixth meeting of the Ad Hoc Committee to Elaborate a Comprehensive International Convention on Countering the Use of ICTs for Criminal Purposes, the committee focused on finalizing the updated draft text of the Convention. The Chair emphasized the goal of concluding the reading of the updated draft text and reaching a consensus on pending provisions.

A significant debate centered on Article 53, which addresses Preventive Measures. The committee agreed to remove the term “preventive” to avoid repetition and highlighted the role of ethical hackers and security researchers in maintaining cybersecurity. However, Iran’s proposal to add “safety” alongside “security” in paragraph 3D led to a split, with the United States and the European Union questioning the distinction and necessity of the addition. The lack of consensus resulted in the paragraph being left pending.

Article 54, concerning Technical Assistance and Information Exchange, saw discussions on the transfer of technology. Several member states advocated for the removal of the term “where possible” to ensure more robust technical assistance. This led to a split in the room, with some countries supporting the deletion and others, like the United States, preferring to maintain the current text. The committee agreed on some paragraphs of Article 54 ad referendum, while others remained pending.

The role of stakeholders in the review mechanism was a contentious topic under Article 57. Differing opinions emerged on whether to revert to previously agreed language or to maintain the current draft, particularly regarding the involvement of non-governmental stakeholders in the review mechanism. Switzerland and the United States supported returning to the previous formulation, while others, including Iran, supported the current draft.

Article 58 confirmed that the United Nations Secretary-General would provide the necessary Secretariat services to the Conference of the States Parties to the Convention. Article 59’s Paragraph 2 was agreed ad referendum without objection, while Article 60’s Paragraph 1 was left pending due to concerns about its ambiguous implementation.

Article 62’s Paragraph 2, related to the settlement of disputes, was agreed ad referendum. Article 63, which addresses signature, ratification, acceptance, approval, and accession, was reviewed with an amendment proposed to allow for the usual option of opening the Convention for Signature at United Nations Headquarters in New York until a date to be clarified by the Committee.

Article 64, regarding the entry into force, remained subject to informal consultations. The meeting concluded with the chairperson deciding to adjourn and continue discussions on Article 63 the following morning due to confusion and the need to verify certain points with the Secretariat.

The meeting underscored the committee’s commitment to a thorough and precise review process, the importance of linguistic cohesion and clarity, and the recognition of the valuable contributions of ethical hackers and security researchers. Additionally, the discussions highlighted the complexities of international negotiations and the challenges of balancing different national interests and legal frameworks. The meeting demonstrated the intricate process of building consensus in international lawmaking and the significant role of diplomacy and compromise in achieving a unified convention text.

Session transcript

Chair:
Excellencies, ladies and gentlemen, dear colleagues, dear colleagues, we are at the sixth meeting of the Resumed Concluding Session of the Ad Hoc Committee to Elaborate a Comprehensive International Convention on Countering the Use of ICTs for Criminal Purposes. We are still on item 3 of the agenda, the updated draft text of the Convention. Our aim is to conclude the reading of the updated draft text. As we did yesterday afternoon and this morning, we will consider all of the pending provisions, and those that cannot be agreed at referendum will be the subject of informal consultations under the very enlightened leadership of our dear Vice-Chair from Japan, Mr Kaoshi. He’s already there alongside me, and he will bring his knowledge and the ideas exchanged during the informals to bear to address those pending issues. So, without further ado, we are at article 53. First of all, I would like to say that tomorrow morning at the beginning of the meeting at 10am, I will tell you what the situation is, and I will read out all of the paragraphs that are still pending following this latest reading of the updated draft text. The Secretariat is currently working on the basis of your comments and your thoughts expressed yesterday and this morning. So Article 53, Preventive Measures. I’ll try to, first of all, explain to you the changes that have been made to help us get a consensus. In paragraph 3D, so please place the text on the screen, in paragraph 3D the term preventive has been deleted from the updated draft text of the Convention because several Member States felt that this constituted repetition, given that the provision is in the article and chapter devoted to preventive measures. Paragraph E was already in the latest version of the updated draft text and it picks up on the proposal from several Member States. It focuses on the important contribution of ethical hackers and security researchers maintaining cyber security and preventing cyber crime that are legitimately carrying out tests and signaling vulnerabilities. Some Member States expressed concerns over this provision and the following clarification was added to the text, and to the extent permitted by domestic law, I’ll repeat, we added the following clarification and to the extent permitted by domestic law in order to facilitate consensus. On paragraph H of paragraph 3 of article 53 of the updated draft text of the Convention. This paragraph takes into account proposals made by member states when considering the latest version of the updated draft text at the closing session in order to once again facilitate consensus. In the first part of this paragraph, an expression was deleted in order to achieve simplicity because it is implied in the expression by. The term information and communication technologies was also replaced by the expression information and communications technology system as included in paragraph A of article 2 in order to clearly delineate the scope of this provision. In the second part of this paragraph, the addition of the conjunction and before taking into account means that persons in vulnerable situations are a group that need to generally be taken into consideration when developing preventive measures whilst also allowing us to include persons in vulnerable situations as defined in the second part of this provision as well as persons concerned by gender-based violence as defined in the first part. No other change has been made to the remaining pending provisions. We will therefore now consider this article paragraph by paragraph. Paragraph 2. We are at article 53. And we are just going through the pending paragraphs as we did this morning. Please do not refer to paragraphs that have already been agreed. referendum or to some articles that are the subject of informal consultations that are still ongoing so currently we are considering the pending paragraphs and we are at article 53 paragraph 2 are there any comments can we agree this is that ok ok agreed at referendum paragraph 3a are there any objections paragraph 3 no agreed at ref at referendum paragraph 3d Iran

Iran:
Thank you Chair regarding the paragraph 3 subparagraph D I would like to propose in the paragraph 3 in the third line after the security the expression and safety and also if I may go to the subparagraph E in subparagraph E we had the reservation and also as I for as far as I know there was some objection to this paragraph because the security researchers was vague and the very general and we had objection because it is it is not clear and specific to understand who are the security researchers so we have a reservation about the paragraph E and paragraph H regarding…

Chair:
Excuse me we’re currently going through a paragraph by a paragraph so it’s better to avoid any confusion that we do that so we’re currently on paragraph 3D, and you’ve made your proposal. You had a proposed amendment, something to submit to us? Iran has the floor.

Iran:
In the paragraph D, we propose in the third line, after the security, the expression, and safety to be added. Thank you.

Chair:
Okay, so Iran is proposing the addition of a single word, safety. Are we in a position to accept that? And safety. The Secretary is reminding me that that was in fact two words, and safety, or even three words in French. Can we accept that? Can we move forward? The United States, followed by the European Union.

United States:
Thank you very much, Madam Chair. We are considering what safety would mean in this context, and how it differs from security. So we’d be interested to know what the intention is of adding safety to it, otherwise we thought the existing language addressed concerns of safety and security concerning product services and customers. I don’t see a distinction between security and safety with respect to customers, for example. Thank you.

Chair:
Thank you.

European Union:
The European Union, followed by Norway. Thank you, Madam Chair. We have exactly the same questions as the U.S., for which we would like clarification. Thank you.

Chair:
Norway.

Norway:
Thank you, Madam Chair. We also questioned the difference between those two and the added value of it, so I don’t think we can support it. Thank you.

Chair:
I give the floor back to Iran so that they can explain to us the difference between safety and security and why they want to add the word safety.

Iran:
Thank you, Madam Chair. Certainly, there is a difference between security and safety, as all of you are aware, because we want to remove any gap in supporting not only the service providers, but also customers. There are some products, some objects, and also there are human beings. So the security and safety, we think that it is a complete and comprehensive protection for not only the product and services, but also the customers. Thank you.

Chair:
Thank you. Is it still unclear? The European Union.

European Union:
Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you also for the distinguished delegate of the Iranian delegation. We believe that these concerns will already be addressed by the notion of security, as I believe the distinguished delegate from the U.S. has also emphasized. So we don’t see a reason to add further terms that may only add more confusion. Cyber security is a widely accepted and known term, and we believe it will be sufficient indeed for this purpose. Thank you.

Chair:
Thank you very much. I’ll give the floor again to the United States.

United States:
Thank you very much, Madam Chair. The United States agrees with the views of the EU on this point, and I’m thinking in terms of the opposite. So if safety is added, then it raises the question of what an unsafe product or an unsafe service and therefore an unsafe customer might mean. And we do not see the need to add another word. I think the scope of the language of existing D is adequate to capture the concerns that the distinguished delegate of Iran has raised and also make the para shorter by a word and clear. Thank you.

Chair:
Okay. It’s clear that we are not going to all reach an agreement on paragraph 3D. So we will leave that one pending for the time being. Moving on to paragraph 3E, paragraph 3E. Are there any objections to agreeing it at referendum? Paragraph 3E, Vietnam followed by Iran, Vietnam.

Vietnam:
Thank you, Madam Chair, for giving us the floor. We have heard, with regard to paragraph 3E, we have heard your explanation for the phrase to the extent permitted by domestic law, but somehow we still have concern whether this phrase could capture the fact that there will be conditions attached to how these activities could take place, which in principle could jeopardize network securities. So we think of adding, to the extent permitted, and conditions prescribed by domestic law to make sure that it’s not just the part of the infrastructure that you may test, but also the condition that you have to comply with when you conduct such pen tests. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Chair:
Excuse me, colleague. What are you proposing?

Vietnam:
Our proposal is to add, after permitted, and condition prescribed.

Chair:
After domestic law?

Vietnam:
Yes.

Chair:
I would like to ask the Commission, can we accept this addition presented by our dear colleague from Vietnam? Has everybody been able to take note of his proposal? I would like to give the floor back to Vietnam so that you can re-read that, as some have not been able to write everything down. Please read it again.

Vietnam:
So our proposal is to add, to the extent permitted, and condition prescribed by domestic law. inform the researchers that they have to look for the part of the ICT infrastructure that they could do the test, and also they have to comply with the conditions. For example, they must contact the owners of this ICT system, and they also will have to declare the activities and also the vulnerabilities that they may find out.

Chair:
Excusez-moi, I’m personally a bit lost. Could you please read exactly the addition and tell us where you want to place it? Please note, explain it. Just propose what you want to add.

Vietnam:
I will repeat, Madam Chairs. The addition is to, after the word permitted, in the second line, suffix E. After permitted, we add end conditions, plurals, prescribes, and the rest remain the same.

Chair:
Très bien, c’est très bien, that’s very clear now. Can we accept that? Are there any objections? Perhaps it’s clearer. Thank you. We will accept what was just proposed by Vietnam. Any other delegation wishing to take the floor on 3E? No? Very well. Thank you. It is adopted ad ref. 3G. Are there any objections to its adoption? No? Very well. Adopted at ref. 3H. Iran.

Iran:
Thank you, Madam Chair, and sorry for taking the floor again. Also we explain our position in the previous meeting that we are not in favor of having here gender-based violence. We propose that we use the general word of violence to eradicate violence instead of gender-based violence. Thank you.

Chair:
Canada, please. Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Canada:
Canada would like to mainly text as it is, it’s very important to fight against gender-based violence. Thank you very much.

Chair:
Thank you very much. Norway and then Ecuador. Norway, please.

Norway:
Thank you, Madam Chair. It’s the same for Norway. It is important for Norway that we keep the text as it is right now. Thank you.

Chair:
Thank you. Ecuador, please.

Ecuador:
Thank you very much. For Ecuador as well, the issue of the impact that online gender-based violence has on women and girls is extremely important. That’s why it’s very important for us to maintain this paragraph as it is, because for two years we’ve been proposing several references to gender and this is one of the few texts where it has remained. So please, we ask that countries show greater flexibility so that we can keep this paragraph as it is. Thank you.

Chair:
Thank you very much. European Union.

European Union:
Thank you, Madam Chair. The UN, its member states, endorses the positions for the same arguments expressed by Canada and Norway and Ecuador.

Chair:
Thank you very much, Nepal.

Nepal:
Thank you, Chair. Gender-based violence is prominent. It’s out there, and I think what’s spelled out in 3H is very valid, and we support that as well. Thank you.

Chair:
Thank you very much, Mauritania.

Mauritania:
Thank you, Madam Chair. Good afternoon. We echo the reservation expressed by Iran in relation to this statement, and we support the deletion of gender-based and to maintain just violence. Thank you.

Colombia:
Thank you very much, Madam Chair. As we said on the first day during our statement, the references to gender, my delegation considers that the text as it is is the minimum that’s acceptable to us, so we request that the text not be changed. Thank you.

Chair:
Thank you very much, Russia.

Russian Federation:
Thank you, Madam Chair. We would like to echo the proposal of Iran to remove from Paragraph H the reference to gender and leave simply violence. Thank you.

Chair:
Thank you, Albania.

Albania:
Thank you, Chair. Also, Albania would like to maintain and support the maintaining of the Paragraph H as it is. Thank you.

Chair:
Thank you, Cabo Verde.

Cabo Verde:
Thank you. We prefer the text as draft.

Chair:
Thank you very much, Uruguay.

Uruguay:
Thank you very much, Madam Chair. Very briefly. We express our firm support to the paragraph as it is drafted, as mentioned by the delegation of Ecuador. After long negotiations, it’s one of the few references that remain in the text to gender-based violence. So, for Uruguay, it’s a necessary minimum in the text. Thank you very much.

Chair:
Thank you very much. Costa Rica.

Costa Rica:
Thank you very much, Madam Chair for Costa Rica. As is the case with those who have spoken before me, this is an indispensable minimum standard. We know that gender should be cross-cutting throughout the entire convention. There are very few references that have remained. This is one of the few references we firmly support. Thank you.

Chair:
Thank you very much. Georgia, please.

Georgia:
Thank you, Chair. Georgia joins the countries who seek to retain this paragraph as drafted for reasons submitted by Costa Rica and Ecuador and others. Thank you.

Chair:
Mexico.

Mexico:
Thank you, Madam Chair. Simply, we would like to express my delegation’s preference for maintaining the current drafting of this paragraph for the reasons that have already been expressed beforehand by Canada, the European Union, Colombia, Ecuador, and other countries that express such an opinion. Thank you very much.

Chair:
Panama.

Panama:
Yes, Panama, just like the rest of the countries in our region, consider that it is relevant to maintain the reference to gender in this paragraph. Thank you.

Chair:
Thank you very much. Liechtenstein.

Liechtenstein:
Thank you very much, Madam Chair. Just to note Liechtenstein’s support for the language as it is drafted. Thank you very much.

Chair:
Thank you, Senegal.

Senegal:
Thank you very much, Madam Chair. The Senegalese delegation supports the elimination of the specific gender reference and suggests referring only to the notion of violence, especially since it is expressly mentioned in the text. Also referring to the issue of internal law. So we hope that you would please eliminate the reference to gender in H.

Chair:
Thank you very much, Namibia.

Namibia:
Thank you, Chair. The Namibian delegation would like to support the paragraph as it is. Thank you.

Chair:
Thank you very much, Vanuatu.

Vanuatu:
Thank you very much, Madam Chair. We support the current text as it is and support the Uruguay statement that this is already the result of extensive compromises. Thank you very much.

Chair:
Thank you very much, Japan.

Japan:
Japan strongly supports the text as it stands. Thank you.

Chair:
Thank you, the Democratic Republic of the Congo.

Democratic Republic of the Congo:
Thank you very much, Madam Chair. Like Iran, Russia, and Senegal, we support eliminating the reference to gender for the reasons mentioned before. Thank you very much, South Africa.

South Africa:
We support the retention of the paragraph as originally drafted. Thank you.

Chair:
Thank you very much, New Zealand.

New Zealand:
Thank you, Madam Chair, we support your text.

Chair:
Merci. Thank you. Rwanda.

Rwanda:
Thank you, Madam Chair. Rwanda will support the text as it is. Thank you.

Chair:
Thank you, Rwanda. Voilà, nous avons… Very well. We’ve listened to a lot of countries. I think that… others might not want to make any statements because we’ve already heard a lot of them, but the reasons are clear for me. So, for the time being, we are going to leave this paragraph pending because there is strong opposition from five countries. So, we will talk to those countries. They’ve explained that the notion, the reference to internal law allows to adapt the content of this paragraph to the national situation, the domestic situation. So, I will be very clear. If I leave the word gender in this paragraph, knowing that the position of Algeria is not in favour of including gender, but me, personally, I would leave it aside because there is a great majority that is in favour of maintaining this reference to gender and also because the reference to internal law will allow… can be interpreted in step with its own notions of the concept of gender. For example, I’m speaking about Algeria. Algeria, for us, is a country where there is… there are two genders, men and women. And so, the word gender would refer to women. Like many colleagues here, Ecuador and other countries have said that they think that it is necessary to include this reference to gender in order to protect women and girls, I imagine. So, that’s why I’m explaining to the colleagues who are already reticent, who are still reticent, that the reference to domestic law specifically aims to facilitate the acceptance of the word gender, but since there is opposition to this, we will leave this H pending and we will move to I. Three I. Are there any objections to this? No? Adopted ad ref. Three L. Are there any objections? No? Adopted ad ref. Three M. Are there any objections to adopting an ad ref? No? Very well. Thank you very much. Secretariat. Adopted ad ref. And as was the case this morning, once the meeting is over, you will send it to the group that will be able to finish this as soon as possible. We will now move on to paragraph four. Paragraph four. Can we adopt it? Yes? Adopted ad ref. Paragraph five. Are there no objections? Paragraph 6, Adopted Ad Ref, 6, Paragraph 6, Adopted Ad Ref. Thank you very much. Regarding the provisions on which the committee hasn’t reached an agreement, I will ask our dear Vice President, or Vice Chair, the representative of Japan, to please coordinate once again the discussions with the concerned delegations. But there are fewer and fewer such points, and then you can present the results to the plenary. Hopefully they will be positive, the results of those consultations. Now we are going to move on to technical assistance and information exchange. Article 54, no modification, aside from some formulaic ones, have been included. Now Article 54, in terms of capacity building and technical assistance and capacity building, as is usually the case, we are going to review this paragraph by paragraph. Paragraph 1, are there any objections to adopting this Ad Ref? Yes? No? Very well. Secretary, it is adopted Ad Ref. Paragraph 2. Oh, sorry, Iran wishes to take the floor.

Iran:
Thank you, Madam Chair. In paragraph 1 of Article 54, if we take into account the subject matter of the Convention, which is combating the use of ICT for criminal purposes, the transfer of technology becomes very important and plays a significant role, specifically for developing country for efficient and effective international cooperation. Also, if you look at, we take into account the other international agreement or convention. For example, two years ago, BB&J was adopted, if I’m not wrong, in this hall, and there was not any caveat like where possible. So we proposed deleting where possible, and also, as I remember in the previous meetings, also some other countries proposed deletion of the where possible, because we have several caveats in this para. And in addition to delete where possible, also we proposed deletion of mutually-agreed terms. Thank you.

Chair:
Sorry, Iran, that already exists, mutually-agreed terms. Would you like to remove it? Is that what you want? Mutually-agreed terms, thank you. So you want to erase where possible and on mutually-agreed terms, is that what you want? Please say yes or no, that’s it. Okay, very well. Now, Benin has the floor.

Benin:
Thank you very much, Madam Chair. Our delegation would like to commend you, as this is our first time making a statement, actually. You will recall that this article is part of one of the articles for which Benin was very conciliatory. And in fact, we made a lot of concessions to a bunch of delegations that are here. We don’t think it’s fair. We do not understand why we should make concessions. And when – and what we want is the same in return. We want a consensus-based convention so that we can move forward. And I would like to reiterate the position opinion, which is that we should eliminate if – where possible, but this is not moving forward. If you really want Benin to join this convention, please eliminate that so that we can move forward, and that way you will have our vote. Otherwise we will be forced to challenge other points on which we’ve already made concessions in the past. So where possible doesn’t allow us to move forward. It should be eliminated unless we really want to then move towards transfer of technology. Thank you very much for listening to me.

Chair:
Thank you very much. So Benin proposes that we eliminate where possible. And I would now like to give the floor to South Africa, and then to the Central African Republic, South Africa.

South Africa:
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. So I take the floor on behalf of the Africa Group. Madam Chair, as we indicated yesterday, technical assistance and capacity building is very important to developing countries. We indicated that we want to be able to be capacitated to render effective international cooperation. So Madam Chair, in this regard, we had also called for the deletion of where possible, also as highlighted by Benin. So Madam Chair, we could go along with our mutually agreed terms, but we would like to take out where possible. We think that this one caveat is sufficient for this one. Thank you.

Chair:
Thank you very much. So South Africa spoke on behalf of the African group. I’m wishing to eliminate the reference, the two terms, where possible. The Central African Republic, please.

Central African Republic:
Thank you, Madam Chair. Since we are speaking for the first time, we would like to congratulate you for the excellent work our country also supports, that we can eliminate where possible. We should not turn transfer of technology into a condition. It should be automatic, therefore where possible should be withdrawn from this text. Thank you very much.

Chair:
Thank you very much. We now have the United States, and then Colombia, and then Nigeria, United States.

United States:
Thank you, Madam Chair, and as our distinguished Vice Chair can attest, this paragraph was subject to much debate during our last session. In terms of concessions, I think the United States also made quite a few to try to get us as close as possible to consensus on this particular article. I think as it stands on the screen, the United States could certainly join consensus on that, understanding that we too have made compromises, and there were other caveats that we agreed after much conversation to drop from this paragraph. As such, at this point, we do not support deletion of the where possible, and would seek to maintain the current text on the screen. Thank you.

Chair:
Merci. Thank you. Colombia.

Colombia:
Thank you very much, Madam Chair. The last meeting or session in January, we understood that we had reached a sort of agreement to maintain only the reference. to mutually agreed terms and that, where possible, would be eliminated in this paragraph. Therefore, for us, and we had the opportunity to put this forth in January in light of the difficulties when it comes to implementation and the need to receive some type of cooperation in light of our technical capabilities, we would like to maintain only the reference to mutually agreed terms. We think that this is sufficient so that both parts can reach an agreement. It’s not necessary to include the reference to where possible. Thank you.

Chair:
Merci beaucoup. Thank you very much. Nigeria?

Nigeria:
Thank you very much, Madam Chair. I would like to repeat what has been said by many delegations in the Africa group represented by South Africa. Just before me, Colombia, who has so eloquently explained the rationale for a call to remove where possible. I only want to also bring to our attention that this paragraph actually started with two strong caveats in the first line. Consider affording according to their capacity. That’s a caveat that also goes through till we get to the point of transfer of technology. And I think having mutually acceptable terms immediately after transfer of technology should be able to address concerns of delegations like United States. If we are saying something, Madam Chair, let us mean what we are saying. We cannot pretend to be saying something and then we are equally saying something else. So we cannot have this paragraph laden with caveats, except we don’t mean to do what we pretend to say. Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Chair:
Merci beaucoup. Thank you very much to Nigeria. As Chair, I’m not going to share my point of view in the plenary, but Nigeria has And, in fact, you don’t know, this is my child here, so Emmanuel has very well summarized the situation. But it’s your decision. United Kingdom, please.

United Kingdom:
Thank you, Madam Chair. The United Kingdom supports the text as drafted. Thank you.

Chair:
Thank you. Norway.

Norway:
Thank you, Madam Chair. We support the statement by the U.S. and also supported by the U.K. to retain this wording. Give me a second. You know, Norway, we have never supported transfer of technology in the text from the beginning. But we have heard how important this is for many countries, and we fully understand. And therefore, we have accepted it in this Article 54 and the preamble. So I think we have shown flexibility, and we ask other delegations to show flexibility also. Thank you.

Chair:
Thank you. Everybody asks the others to be flexible, but in reality, nobody is showing signs of flexibility. El Salvador.

El Salvador:
Thank you very much, Madam Chair. I wanted to echo what was mentioned by the distinguished colleague from Colombia regarding the elimination of where possible. For El Salvador, the caveat that we already have that’s reflected regarding the mutually agreed terms reflects the interests of El Salvador. the countries that are in conditions of being able to provide those transfers of technology and also in response to what we’ve just heard in the room. One of the measures that could help implement this convention would be through transfer of technology, software, hardware, know-how. For us, it’s extremely important. This is one of the articles that is central, essential for developing countries to be able to implement this convention. So we would like to keep terminology that would refer – that would take into account these needs. Thank you very much.

Chair:
Thank you very much. To El Salvador. Congo, please.

Democratic Republic of the Congo:
Thank you very much, Madam Chair. You know that everybody is focused on cyber resilience and states should find ways to deal with the various challenges of cyber crime in their countries. It is important to be able to remove, if possible, or where possible, because that is a key issue. Thank you very much.

Chair:
That’s very clear. South Africa.

South Africa:
Apologies, Madam, for taking the floor again. So my group has requested that we put a comma after technology, please. Thank you.

Chair:
Yes, you’re right. That would be clearer. Egypt.

Egypt:
Madam Chair, delete where possible. Thank you.

Chair:
Thank you very much. Egypt, European Union.

European Union:
Thank you, Madam Chair. And it has reached this kind of balanced outcome, so we would like this paragraph to remain as it stands. Thank you.

Chair:
Thank you very much, Nicaragua.

Nicaragua:
Thank you very much, Madam Chair. Nicaragua would like to join the voices of the countries that have requested the elimination of that double caveat where possible. We reiterate that, or rather we request that developed countries, we would like to mention to them that our developing countries would not be able to implement this convention and deal with all of the challenges of the misuse of technology, so we request your flexibility. Thank you very much.

Chair:
Thank you very much. Tunisia.

Tunisia:
Thank you, Madam Chair. Tunisia supports the proposal to delete the expression where possible, and we also support the last proposal made by South Africa on behalf of the African group to add a comma after the word technology. Thank you.

Chair:
Thank you very much. Tunisia. We support the deletion of the word where possible. Thank you. Russia.

Russian Federation:
Thank you, Madam Chair. I would like to express understanding and support for the aspirations of the group of African states regarding technical assistance. These aren’t excessive demands, rather these are aspirations to overcome the technological divide. But overcoming that technological gulf is really one of the objectives of our convention in the first place. Thank you.

Chair:
Thank you. Vietnam.

Vietnam:
Thank you, Madam Chair. My delegation joins a group of states which ask for the removal of the French where possible. We still feel that the double caveats with regard to transfer of technology is too much and it should not be where possible, but where needed the transfer of technology should be facilitated. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Chair:
Le Maroc.

Morocco:
Thank you, Madam Chair. In line with what we have indicated yesterday concerning the preamble, we would request the deletion of where possible. It’s already covered here with mutually agreed terms, so that’s enough of a caveat to land on a safe compromise. So, again, we reiterate our request for the deletion of where possible. Thank you.

Chair:
Albania.

Albania:
Thank you, Chair. We support the maintenance of this paragraph as it is. Thank you.

Chair:
Thank you. Algeria.

Algeria:
Thank you, Madam Chair. We join our dear colleagues from the African group that have expressed the necessity of removing where possible, as was explicitly and eloquently presented by a dear colleague from South Africa. And we see that in this paragraph exactly we are using a lot of caveats and there is an extensive use of caveats. And when we are extensively using caveats means sometimes that we are meaning the opposite. Therefore, we see that an extensive use of caveats will give an opposite signal regarding the willingness to really transfer technology. Therefore, we want to at least for this to suppress and remove where possible. Thank you.

China:
China Supports the Deletion of Where Possible

Tanzania:
Tanzania Supports the Deletion of Where Possible

Burkina Faso:
Burkina Faso Supports the Deletion of Where Possible

Mauritania:
Mauritania Supports the Deletion of Where Possible

Laos:
Laos Supports the Deletion of Where Possible

Djibouti:
Djibouti Supports the Deletion of Where Possible We think that technology transfer should not be the victim of many caveats and conditions that are included in this paragraph, which is one that is very important for our delegation. And we continue to support the position of the African group. We have been forced to repeat ourselves on this. Thank you.

Chair:
Thank you very much. Senegal.

Senegal:
Thank you, Madam Chair. We firmly support the position of the African group, but we would simply like to clarify that the preoccupation of African countries, their concerns were taken into account with the expression according to modalities. But if we delete this, it doesn’t remove the need for developing countries to enjoy transfer of technology. Thank you.

Chair:
Thank you very much. Indonesia.

Indonesia:
Indonesia would also like to support the voice of the delegation on the deletion of the caveat where possible. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Chair:
Thank you. Guatemala.

Guatemala:
Thank you very much, Madam Chair. Guatemala supports the group of delegations who have requested the elimination of the caveat where possible for our country. It’s also very important. It’s one of the most important paragraphs. So we request the removal of that caveat. Gracias.

Chair:
Uganda. Thank you.

Uganda:
Thank you, Madam Chair. Uganda aligns with the statement of African group presented by the distinguished delegate of South Africa and calls for deletion of the word where possible. Thank you.

Chair:
Thank you. Belarus.

Belarus:
Thank you, Madam Chair, for giving us the floor. Belarus supports the group of African states in their request to delete. the phrase where possible from Article 54, Paragraph 1, from the outset in our statement we indicated that the Convention needs to be based on the principles of multilateralism and international cooperation. Technical assistance is in principle part and parcel of that international cooperation and so if we are going to use these caveats like where possible according to their capacity and so on and so forth then it questions the very implementation of this paragraph and this article. Thank you very much.

Chair:
Thank you very much. India.

India:
Thank you Madam Chair. India supports the deletion of the words where possible. Thank you.

Chair:
Mozambique.

Mozambique:
Thank you Madam Chair. Mozambique aligns with the position proposed by the African group and in our capacity would like to propose the deletion of the caveat where possible. We believe that there are other elements that could address the concern of the other partners. Thank you.

Chair:
Namibia.

Namibia:
Thank you very much Madam Chair. Namibia would like to align itself with the statement made on behalf of the African group and in its national capacity would like to propose for the deletion of the word where possible and also in addition of the come after technology. Thank you.

Chair:
Thank you very much. Sao Tome and Principes.

Sao Tome and Principe:
Sao Tome and Principe would like to join the countries that request for the suppression of the word where possible. Thank you.

Chair:
Netherlands.

Netherlands:
Thank you very much Madam Chair. We support the statement made by the European Union and we support the language as drafted by you Madam Chair. Thank you.

Chair:
Honduras.

Honduras:
Thank you very much Madam Chair. My delegation would also like to join. And echo what was expressed by numerous delegations, we would like to specify our concern regarding technology and thus my delegation supports the removal of the term where possible.

Chair:
Zimbabwe.

Zimbabwe:
Thank you Madam Chair for giving us the opportunity. And we would like to align ourselves with the statement delivered by South Africa on behalf of the Africa Group yesterday. And also support all other delegations who have indicated that we definitely need to remove one of the caveats and agree that we should remove the word where possible and stay or leave with the word mutually agreed terms. Thank you.

Chair:
Thank you. Kazakhstan.

Kazakhstan:
Thank you Madam Chair. Kazakhstan supports a group of countries that propose to remove the words according to their capacity. Thank you.

Chair:
Thank you. Angola.

Angola:
Thank you Madam Chair. Angola aligns itself with the declaration made by South Africa on behalf of African Group and we also support the deletion of where possible. Thank you.

Chair:
Thank you very much. Côte d’Ivoire.

Côte d’Ivoire:
Thank you Madam Chair. Côte d’Ivoire supports the position of South Africa. And we request the deletion of where possible. Thank you.

Chair:
Thank you. Japan.

Japan:
Thank you Chair. The current text is acceptable for Japan so we prefer to maintain the text as it stands. Thank you.

Chair:
Thank you. Nepal.

Nepal:
Thank you Madam Chair. It’s a request to all member states. I think transfer of technology here is also not only important for developing countries, it’s also important for developed countries because it’s going to address the cooperation gap. So what is this convention for? There are various countries at various stages of development. We are having the artificial intelligence, the readiness on AI, the readiness on digital spare, the cyber spare. So I think technology transfer is very important for this cooperation to be implemented in the convention. So I’d like to propose the deletion of the word where possible. Thank you.

Chair:
Thank you, Nepal, Thailand.

Thailand:
Thailand also support other delegates in requesting for deletion of the where possible. Thank you.

Chair:
Thank you very much. That was the last speaker. Now we have a very clear idea of the situation. I think, frankly speaking, based on the debate that has taken place and the even brief explanations that have been given, quite frankly, I think we could envisage the deletion of where possible because this paragraph does already contain several nuances and caveats. So I would ask those that absolutely want to keep this in the text to think about it. And I’ll give you a little bit of time. But the situation for me is very clear following this debate. And to those who are firmly attached to the text as it currently stands, to think about accepting the deletion of where possible. That deletion was supported by really a very large majority of countries and many have not yet taken the floor, but when it comes to the adoption, they probably will make their voices known because it’s clear once again that there are sufficient limits on this. And at the same time, I’d like to add something. One gets the impression that on the one hand, you have the developed countries that don’t want to engage in the transfer of technology. And then on the other side, there are developing countries that do nothing and that they are surviving off assistance alone. But that’s not the truth and that’s not the reality. Nowadays, there’s a lot of trans-regional cooperation among developing countries, so adding limits in this way doesn’t do any favors for cooperation even among developing countries. So, I do really think that we could envisage the deletion of where possible. It wouldn’t change anything at all when it comes to the spirit and the letter of this paragraph. That would be the only request I’ve made certainly since yesterday, and I hope you will hear that message. We will leave this paragraph to one side because everyone does have to agree in order for us to agree at referendum. So, we’ll leave that to one side, and we will move on to the following paragraph. We are at paragraph 3G of Article 54. Is that right, Secretariat? I just want to make sure we’re at 3G. That’s the next one. That’s it. Paragraph 3G. We’ve just looked at 3A, so now we’re at 3G. Vietnam. Please go ahead. You have the floor.

Vietnam:
Thank you, Madam Chair. I seek your advice. Our expert has a comment regarding D, indeed, about is enforcement equipment. Now we have modern law enforcement equipment and it is thereof. However, the fact is that because we have different, like, operating system for IT, and we think about not just modern, but maybe we should add, like, compatibles, just to make sure that when you provide equipment, it should be compatible with the current system in place in the receiving countries, even when you receive something modern, but, like, they cannot work together?

Chair:
Yes, Vietnam. I was just checking, because I have it down saying that this paragraph is already agreed, and the Secretary has just confirmed to me that the paragraph that you’re referring to has already been agreed at referendum. So as was the case this morning, this doesn’t mean that you no longer have the right to talk about it. In principle, we will come back to it, but for the time being, we would like to focus on the pending paragraphs. That’s why I went straight to 3G. The others have been agreed at referendum, so we’re at paragraph 3G. If you have an objection, when we reread the text as a whole, we’ll go back over all of the paragraphs. So for the time being, we’re focusing on those that are not yet. But I’ll give the floor to the Vice-Chair if you have something to add. Vietnam, the Secretary and the Vice-Chair are a little bit out of sync, but are you talking about 3A? 3D is already agreed at referendum. Paragraph 3A, the Vice-Chair is telling me that that has not yet been agreed. So, we’re in Article 54, Paragraph 3A. We’ll do that before going to G. I apologise, that’s my fault. So, Paragraph 3A. And I’m going to have to check both my notes and with the Vice-Chair as well. So, Paragraph 3A. Are there any objections? No. Can we agree it? Secretariat, please note, agreed at referendum. Now, Paragraph 3G. No, no comments, no objections. Okay, that’s agreed at referendum. Paragraph 4. I thank the Vice-Chair once again. The Vice-Chair is really on the ball. So, Paragraph 2. Are there any objections? No? Agreed. Add referendum. Paragraph 4. Vietnam? Is this on paragraph 4?

Vietnam:
Madam Chair, I’d like to ask for your advice whether we would use the phrase offences covered by this convention in G or we use the offence established by this convention like in the previous articles? So there’s lack of consistencies within the text of the convention, I’m sure.

Vice Chair:
Yes, Chair. Thank you, Madam Chair. I would like to respond

Vietnam:
to the distinguished delegate of Vietnam. I also would like to encourage you to recall what happened in the concluding session in January to February. What we agreed upon at the session January-February is to use the offences covered by this convention under this chapter, chapter on technical assistance and information sharing, as opposed to other articles. This is in light of the significance and importance of this chapter so that we can conduct technical assistance and information sharing in a broader scope. So this is inconsistent, consistent as well as appropriate for this chapter to use this word covered by this convention. I wish I’d make it clear for you, Vietnam.

Chair:
Vietnam please.

Vietnam:
Sorry Madam Chair for taking the floor again because now the convention is dropped in a way that we have Article 3 and Article 4 and I’m not sure covers by this convention would mean offences in Article 3 plus Article 4 or it’s just Article 3. So because the vice-chair said it would be broader but in what sense? Thank you Madam Chair.

Chair:
Thank you Madam Chair for giving me the floor again.

Vice Chair:
Thank you Vietnam for seeking further clarification on this question. In response to your question, in other chapters of this convention we use the term the offences established by this convention which means that the Articles 7 to 16, am I right? Yes, so these are the offences that are established under this convention whereas when we use the word offences covered by this convention that means those offences where international cooperation are conducted, may be conducted under this convention which could include sharing and collecting of… e-evidence and all that. So I think I’m trying to make everything clear to you, Vietnam, for the clarification. I wish I did with this, but if you have any further questions, please, I’m open to answer to your question. Thank you.

Chair:
If I may, I would just add that, indeed, it is more general. Vietnam?

Vietnam:
Madam Chair, our delegation has no objection to the phrase covered by this convention. We just seek clarification. If it’s referred to the chapter on international cooperation, that’s okay with us. I thank you, Madam Chair.

Chair:
Thank you very much. That is, indeed, the chapter. Okay. Chapter 4, Japan.

Japan:
Thank you, Madam Chair. Japan supports the text as it stands, but it could be improved, as we believe that cooperation with international and regional organizations is essential for effective technical assistance. So we would like to propose to add international and regional organizations to a third line of the paragraph between relevant and non-governmental organizations. Thank you.

Chair:
Okay. Committee, you’ve just heard a proposal from Japan. And we thank you for your attention. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Keep that proposal and move forward. It doesn’t change anything in the substance. It expands cooperation a little bit. Surely no one could object to that. Okay, I think that’s accepted. Agreed ad referendum. Paragraph 5. Are there any objections? No. Paragraph 5. Paragraph 5, no. Very good. Secretary, please note agreed ad referendum. And Secretary, do that for paragraph 4 as well. Thank you. Paragraph 6. Paragraph 6. Japan.

Japan:
Sorry to give a flaw again. So here we also would like to propose the same, to add international and regional organizations between relevant and non-governmental organizations. Thank you.

Chair:
What does the committee think of that? Are there any objections? Very good. Iran.

Iran:
Thank you, Madam Chair. In paragraph 4, we have some caveats subject to their domestic law. If we want to have the proposal by Japan, we need to have also incorporate subject to their domestic law. Thank you.

Chair:
In paragraph 6 as well. Is that right? So to add domestic law in Paragraph 6 as well, okay. We’ll go step by step. First of all, the proposal by Japan, is that acceptable? Is there any objection? Very good. Then the proposal by Iran to add domestic law. Is there an objection? No. Okay. Both proposals are included and agreed at referendum by the United States.

United States:
Thank you, Madam Chair. Given the use of the consider language in the current paragraph, we don’t think the reference to domestic law is needed. Thank you.

Chair:
Iran, could you explain why you absolutely need domestic law in there?

Iran:
Madam Chair, we need time to concentrate on this paragraph. We will come back to it. Thank you.

Chair:
Very good. Very good. Okay. For the time being, we’ll leave Paragraph 6 pending. And of course, the proposal from Japan as well is pending because Paragraph 6 has not yet been agreed for the time being. So those two proposals remain pending. Paragraph 8. Paragraph 8. Can we agree? Secretariat, please agree ad ref. Paragraph 10. The last paragraph. of this article fifty-four. Agreed. Aderef? No, Jamaica would like to make a statement.

Jamaica:
Thank you, Madam Chair. Jamaica, on behalf of CARICOM, we wish to remove, delete the word consider and replace that with shall, sorry, replace that word with endeavour to. This is consistent with the language used in article thirty, paragraph two, sub-paragraph C in UNTUC, particularly because it is already saying that the voluntary, the contributions are voluntary and the use of the word consider would further weaken the need or the obligation or the discretion to make such contributions. So if we remove consider, endeavour to, it is our submission that it is a stronger word for the purposes of this provision. Thank you.

Chair:
Yes, thank you very much. Would you like to please re-read the paragraph as you would like it drafted? Because I think some have not had the time to take note of your proposal. Please re-read it. Re-read the addition or the deletion. Please re-read your proposal, the paragraph as you would like to see it. Jamaica, please. We give the floor to Jamaica, please.

Jamaica:
Thank you, Madam Chair. Each state party shall endeavour to make voluntary contributions. So we’ll be replacing the word consider making with endeavour to make.

Chair:
Very well, it’s very clear. Can the committee accept this proposal? I have on the list Russia, Canada, and Tanzania. Is this in response to the proposal made by Jamaica? No. These are other proposals, okay. First, we will review Jamaica’s proposal on behalf of CARICOM. Can we accept that proposal? To replace consider making with endeavor to make. Is there anybody against this proposal made by Jamaica, Canada, please?

Canada:
Thank you, Madam Chair, for giving the floor, and thank you to Jamaica and CARICOM for the suggestion. We understand the rationale. It’s important that this capacity building that will flow through this convention is the importance of which should be highlighted. But a voluntary contribution is a voluntary contribution, and we fear that the proposed wording will make it less so. There’s also a problem here in that we’re starting off with each member state, and of course, some member states aren’t necessarily in a position to provide additional funds to the United Nations. It’s a differential responsibility according to capacity in this regard. We have an alternative suggestion, Madam Chair, that we would submit for the consideration, and we think it would highlight the importance of it but address some of the current concerns I just raised. And it would be each state party or states parties are urged to consider making voluntary contributions. So the urging is… That’s one of the more urgent words or important words, active verbs that we can think of that we use in resolutions and such, but it maintains the voluntary aspect. We’re open to working on the wording, of course, as well, Madam Chair. Thank you.

Chair:
This is a modification to the modification proposed by Jamaica. Russia, please.

Russian Federation:
Thank you, Madam Chair. Russia cannot support the proposal by Japan, but at the same time, we do support the proposal from the delegation of Iran on paragraph 6 of Article 54. Thank you.

Chair:
We have already gone beyond paragraph 6. We’re no longer on paragraph 6. We decided to leave the discussion on paragraph 6 pending. There will be consultations, and we will go back to it in the plenary. We’re currently discussing paragraph 10. Jamaica made a proposal. Canada made an amendment to that proposal. So we need to think more about this paragraph, paragraph 10. So let’s leave it also pending in this article, Article 54. Paragraph 6 is pending, and paragraph 10 as well. Paragraph 8 was agreed. Secretary, are you up to date on that? Eight, it’s been agreed? Okay, very well. So now we’ll move on to Article 55, Exchange of Information. Paragraphs 1, 2, 3 are still pending. We will go straight – we will skip those pending paragraphs. We will move on to those pending paragraphs. Paragraphs 1, paragraph 1, please. Are there any objections? We are on Article 55, paragraph 1, which is currently pending. No? There are no objections? Secretariat, please note that it has been agreed at ref, paragraph 1. Now we move on to paragraph 2. The Democratic Republic of Congo, please.

Democratic Republic of the Congo:
Thank you very much, Madam Chair. As we did on previous articles, we could add, after including non-governmental organizations, international regional organizations that we did in previous articles, also talk about these civil society organizations.

Chair:
So you would like to add regional organizations. But perhaps that’s already included. Maybe this is just in the French version. No, there’s no reference here to NGOs. We’re on paragraph 2 of article 55. Paragraph 1. Paragraph 1. Oui. Yes. Yes. Please re-read your proposal so that it can be clear for all of us. Microphone please for Congo. Okay.

Democratic Republic of the Congo:
Thank you very much for giving me the floor. Each state party shall consider analyzing, if insofar as possible, the relevant experts, including those of non-governmental organizations. That is what we suggest.

Chair:
Distinguished Representative Congo, do you know that in the French version, because in English, including from non-governmental organizations, that exists in English, and in French I don’t know if that exists or not. The version that we have in French, that dimension is not included. Okay. So the linguistic cohesion group will make sure that all the texts are in agreement because in the English version in paragraph 1 of article 55, the reference to NGOs has been included. Paragraph 2. Is there any objection to agreeing to it ad ref? Secretariat please consider it agreed ad ref. Paragraph three. Secretariat please. It’s been agreed ad ref. And now we have concluded our consideration of Article 55. Secretariat please send the information to the Linguistic Coordination Group, emphasizing particularly the issue mentioned by Congo for Paragraph 1. Okay? Thank you very much. Article 56. Implementation of the Convention through Economic Development and Technical Assistance. We will move forward likewise, paragraph by paragraph. And of course only those paragraphs that are pending. Paragraph 1. Can everybody agree to it? Very well. Secretariat, it’s been agreed ad ref. Paragraph 2B. This is the only – B and D are the two subparagraphs that are pending. B, can we accept that? Okay. Ad ref 2D. It has been agreed ad ref. Paragraph 4. Sorry, Congo has a comment.

Democratic Republic of the Congo:
Thank you very much, Madam Chair. The same problem persists. I think we’ll have to add non-governmental organizations or rather regional organizations in the second point of this paragraph.

Chair:
Sorry, Congo, please specify because there’s paragraph 2B and paragraph 2D. I’m talking about D. Okay, very well. To encourage, as appropriate, non-governmental organizations there, we also need to add international and regional organizations. International and regional organizations. Can the committee accept Congo’s proposed addition in 2D? Regional organizations. International and regional organizations. International and regional organizations. In reality, distinguished representative of Congo, this paragraph focuses on cooperation with non-governmental organizations, academic institutions, civil society. It’s really reserved for that area, for that sphere. Are you insisting on that? Because my colleague has… recalled, he mentioned to me that there is a paragraph that is specifically on cooperation with international and regional organizations. That’s why it’s drafted this way. This paragraph – this subparagraph deals with the non-governmental aspects. Thank you very much. Would you like the floor again? Okay. Congo, you have the floor again.

Democratic Republic of the Congo:
Thank you very much, Madam Chair. But in this case, we would talk more about non-governmental organizations and civil society organizations, because here, civil society organizations are – the NGOs are included among civil society organizations.

Chair:
Not in all languages. This is an issue of ensuring agreement among the various languages. That’s not the case in all languages. The notion of NGO does not specifically cover civil society. In many countries, in fact, we began talking about civil society and then we introduced the idea of NGOs, and now we talk about NGOs and civil society in several countries. So it really depends on the context. Thank you. And that is the result of various negotiations that have taken place since the beginning. Countries insist on having both terms. Okay. Can we keep the text as it is currently drafted? Distinguished Representative of Congo, thank you very much. Russia, please.

Russian Federation:
Thank you, Madam Chair. I wanted to bring the attention of the Representative of Congo and all colleagues to the fact that at the beginning of Paragraph 2, there’s already a reference to international and regional organizations, and it says that specific efforts need to be taken to ensure everything that is then listed in A, B, C, D, E. Thank you.

Chair:
Thank you very much to Russia. So this has been agreed at rough, okay. Just mentioning that to the Secretariat, now we move on to paragraph 4. Are there any objections in the room? No? It’s good? Okay. Let’s move on to paragraph 6. Okay, please consider it agreed at rough. Okay, we’ve concluded Article 56, so paragraphs 1, 2, 2B, 2D, 4, 6, they’ve all been agreed at rough. So the entire article – we’ve concluded the entire article, which is good news. Considering the articles that are still pending, I will ask our distinguished vice chair to continue his good offices. We will move on to Article 57, Conference of the States Parties to the Convention. So in this chapter, I only have one modification for paragraph 7 of Article 57. At the end of our closing session, several member states have requested the elimination of the second part of paragraph 7 of Article 57 of the new version of the revised draft text of the convention that deals with the role of stakeholders. The idea is to complete the information that was provided in the Conference of States Parties, while other states request that it be maintained. For this provision to be closer to that of the Convention Against Corruption, the suggestion is in paragraph 7 of Article 57 of the draft text that has been updated. The corresponding provision in the new revised draft text should be divided in two sentences, in two parts. The first part would correspond to paragraph 5 of Article 63 of the Convention Against Corruption, and it contemplates that the Conference of States Parties may establish and administer such review mechanisms as it considers necessary. That’s a direct quote. To achieve the goals of paragraph 5 of Article 57, the goal of this review mechanism, which was originally in the provision, was deleted. The second part is for receiving information. The States Parties shall endeavour to consult at the national level with the non-governmental organisations, civil society organisations, academic institutions and private sector entities, relevant NGOs, civil society, academic institutions and private sector entities. These are the national organisations that are contemplated in paragraph 23 regarding the functioning of the review mechanisms in terms of the implementation of the Convention Against Transnational Organised Crime and the related protocols. This proposal aims to obtain a consensus by asking the States Parties to make real efforts in order to consult with the stakeholders without prejudging a decision of the Conference of States Parties on this matter. Another modification that I have to provide is the addition of a list of stakeholders to paragraph 6 in order to harmonize it with the strategy that was adopted for all of the current draft text. That is the establishment of a list of stakeholders that could preserve an interest for the provisions concerned. The other provisions of this chapter remain without any changes. We will now move to review this article, Article 57.

Canada:
We will do this paragraph by paragraph. We will begin with those that are pending. Paragraph 2, Article 57, Paragraph 2. Canada, please. Thank you very much, Madam Chair. We are now asking the Secretary General of the United Nations to convene the Conference of the States Parties. Our original strong preference was to mention the UNODC specifically as the operational office of the UN system that will be the guardian of this treaty, the secretary to this treaty. We are not going to insist upon it, Madam Chair, unless the rest of the room wants to go back to that. Thank you. That is all I have on Article 2. Merci. Thank you.

Chair:
Actually, the fact that we say Secretary General, he is not the one who is going to do it. It is the UNODC. There are countries that insist on including the Secretary General, but it is the UNODC. So the Secretariat, in fact, has no problems with this. They have no problem with including Secretary General. I already consulted with them. Now Iran has the floor.

Iran:
Thank you, Madam Chair. I think we had a discussion about this paragraph in the previous meeting. We prefer the Secretary-General instead of the UNODC. Thank you.

Chair:
Very well. So we have agreed on this. We will move on to paragraph three. Paragraph three. Canada, please.

Canada:
Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair. In this paragraph, unfortunately, we have to recall a very important point that was made last time but unfortunately did not get included in the text here. And that’s that it’s very important that the good parts of the Ad Hoc Committee continue into the running of the COSP. And we have a small change that will reflect this important concern. So right after procedures and rules, we would say comma based on the modalities of the Ad Hoc Committee. You will recall, Madam Chair, that the modalities for the operations of the Ad Hoc Committee were agreed by consensus. And we wish that spirit of consensus to continue and for those modalities to inspire the operation of the COSP. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Chair:
Iran, please. Iran, please.

Iran:
Thank you. This paragraph was discussed because we should, you know, not make a new precedent. We have an established precedent and procedure and a standard of the UNCOC and UNTOC. So we need to follow the established practice and use the Conference of the State Parties as a main player in drafting the rule of procedure and other necessary documents. Thank you.

Chair:
Egypt, please.

Egypt:
Thank you very much, Madam Chair. I think we support Iran in this intervention, and also the second part of the Paragraph 3, which refers to certain principles – effectiveness, efficiency, inclusivity, transparency. I don’t think these preconditions were put in similar texts like in UNTUC and UNCAC, and the definition of such principles is not clear for me. What is the difference? What is the principle of efficiency and effectiveness? So I would call for stopping the paragraphs at those activities and delete them since it starts with such rules. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Chair:
United States of America.

United States:
Thank you, Madam Chair. Our delegation would support the proposed addition made by our distinguished delegate from Canada. I think certainly the ad hoc modalities have proven to be successful and think they would indeed be a good model to base the rules of procedure on for the Conference of States Parties. Thank you.

Chair:
Thank you very much. I will stop – there’s Norway and Liechtenstein and Russia. We have the same issue. I will stop after Russia because, of course, we are not in agreement. We will continue with the consultations. Norway, please.

Norway:
Thank you, Madam Chair. We would support the proposal by Canada, and we do not support the proposal from Iran. We would like to keep the last sentence as it is. Thank you.

Chair:
Liechtenstein.

Liechtenstein:
Thank you, Madam Chair. We would also support the Canadian proposal. We have the feeling that it would save us some work, and that’s beneficial to us. all of us. Thank you very much.

Chair:
Other countries have been added to the list. Would you like to express your point of view? After Russia, we have Japan, Morocco and Albania. I will stop after Albania. Please, it’s clear I’m not going to decide right now. I’m going to leave this for consultations. Russia, please.

Russian Federation:
Thank you, Madam Chair. First of all, I would like to support the logic expressed by the Distinguished Representative of Egypt as regards the second sentence of paragraph three of article 57. But listing the things that we have here, they don’t really add anything to the way in which the Conference of the States Parties is supposed to work. And as far as the Rules of Procedure is concerned, or the Rules and Procedures, Distinguished Colleagues, we know that the Ad Hoc Committee has its own Rules of Procedure that have been developed and, of course, the Distinguished Representative of Canada mentioned that and spoke about consensus. But the Rules of Procedure of the Ad Hoc Committee don’t just include consensus. They’re very specific and they differ from the Rules of Procedure of the General Assembly. There are rules related to voting in the Conference of the States Parties that obviously, during the first session, they will be able to develop just such rules. So why should we try to preempt the development of those rules? Thank you.

Chair:
Thank you very much, please. Thank you, Chair. Japan supports the proposal by Distinguished Delegates of Canada. Thank you. Merci beaucoup. Thank you very much, Morocco.

Morocco:
Thank you, Madam Chair. I’ll be clear – sorry, brief. In this paragraph, we would like to stop the para, as has been indicated by previous delegation before. After activities, we believe that the additions are subjective, and we are of preference to keep the verbatim language, which we have in several – sorry, similar UN conventions. So that would be ending the para after those activities. Thank you.

Chair:
Thank you very much. Albania.

Albania:
Thank you, Chair. Also, Albania supports the proposal of Distinguished Delegate of Canada, that it sounds more logical for this convention. Thank you.

Chair:
Thank you very much. Switzerland.

Switzerland:
Thank you, Madam Chair. We’ll be brief. I also support Canada’s intervention. Thank you.

Chair:
Très bien. Very good. Okay. In any case, we’ll leave it there because we’re not going to resolve this even if 36,000 people take the floor. So for the time being, paragraphs two and three are pending, and I would invite Iran and Canada to talk to one another and to resolve the matter and to come back to us with a solution. Paragraph four. Paragraph quatre. Paragraph four. Any objections? Secretariat, agreed at referendum. Paragraph five B. Paragraph five B. A has already been agreed. A has already been agreed. Is there any objection? Does everybody agree? Okay, Secretariat, please note that. Agreed at referendum. Paragraph 5C. Any objections? Agreed at referendum. Paragraph 5D. Agreed at referendum. Paragraph 6. Egypt, please. Sorry, Madam Chair, you’re going too fast for me. On Paragraph 4, the last sentence is linked to Paragraph 3. Consistent with the principles identified in Paragraph 3. So this sentence is also pending agreeing on Paragraph 3. Absolutely, Egypt, you’re right. We’ll leave Paragraph 4. Secretariat, please delete agreed at referendum. We’ll leave Paragraph 4 because it’s linked to Paragraph 3. Morocco.

Morocco:
Sorry, I think it was cut short. I needed to tell you that 4 has to remain open because 3 is still open. Thank you.

Chair:
Very good, that’s noted. So we have 2, 3 and 4. Paragraph 6. And Egypt, I’m going to slow down. I’m going to slow down. Paragraph six, Morocco.

Morocco:
Thank you, Madam Chair. In this paragraph, we would like to use the verbatim language we have in UNCAC. I think there was an exercise to align it, but again, here it’s a very important cluster on the cusp, so we wanted to be referring to the well-established rules of procedure. So it would be of repeating or reading what we have in UNCAC, which would be from representative of relevant non-governmental organization, duly accredited, and the paragraph goes on without the listing we have there. Thank you.

Chair:
Thank you, Morocco. Thank you, Morocco. The committee has before it a proposal by Morocco, the infamous relevant. Can we accept that? Morocco, could you please repeat?

Morocco:
Sure. So it would be from competent international organization, inputs received from representative of relevant non-governmental organization, duly accredited in accordance with procedures to be decided upon by the conference may also be considered. Thank you.

Chair:
Merci beaucoup. Thank you very much. Can the committee accept that? The United States.

United States:
Thank you, Madam Chair. My delegation has a strong preference to support the language currently in your draft text. We think there is value added to the additional language that is added there with reference to civil society and others on the listing. Thank you.

Chair:
Thank you very much. Iran.

Iran:
Madam Chair, we would like to support the proposal by distinguished delegation of Morocco as it is, you know, the aggregate language of ANCAC. So we can follow the standard we had before. Thank you.

Chair:
Russia.

Russian Federation:
Thank you, Madam Chair. The reference by the distinguished delegation of Morocco to ANCAC is entirely appropriate and we support Morocco’s proposal.

Chair:
Very good, Canada.

Canada:
Thank you, Madam Chair. I think the Ad Hoc Committee can afford to be a bit more ambitious than just simply repeating what happened 20 years ago. We’ve learned a lot of lessons from ANCAC and UNTAC which almost all states have ratified, not all of course. And in this instance, I think the language on the screen is an improvement on what we have in the past and we would support it in line with our distinguished delegate from the United States. Thank you.

Chair:
China, please.

China:
Thank you, Madam Chair. We support the proposal from Morocco. In our view, the relevant procedures and the NGOs accredited must be determined by the Conference of States Parties. There is no need to make a decision at this early stage. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Chair:
United Kingdom, please.

United Kingdom:
Thank you, Madam Chair. The United Kingdom shares the sentiment expressed by the distinguished delegates of the United States and Canada as to the value add of the text and supports the text as drafted. Thank you.

Egypt:
Egypt. Egypt voices support to the proposal made by Morocco. Thank you.

Chair:
Merci beaucoup. Thank you very much. Switzerland.

Switzerland:
Thank you, Madam Chair. Simply to echo what was said by our distinguished colleague from Canada, we fully support that. Thank you.

Chair:
Merci. Thank you. Norway.

Norway:
Thank you, Madam Chair. We also agree with the US and Canada and would like to keep the text as it is. Thank you.

Chair:
Le Congo. Congo. Merci beaucoup.

Democratic Republic of the Congo:
Thank you very much, Madam Chair. We support the proposal from Morocco.

Chair:
Merci. Thank you. Vietnam.

Vietnam:
Thank you, Madam Chair. We support the proposal from Morocco.

Chair:
Merci beaucoup. Thank you very much. New Zealand.

New Zealand:
Thank you, Chair. Just adding our voice to those who support the language as currently drafted. Thank you.

Chair:
India.

India:
Thank you, Madam Chair. We support the proposal from Morocco.

Chair:
Merci beaucoup. Thank you very much. There are no further requests for the floor, so given that it’s split and there’s no agreement, no understanding, we’ll leave this Paragraph 6 to one side as well. And we will ask the Vice-Chair to call upon all those countries that have taken the floor, those that supported Morocco and those that opposed, to find a solution and to come back with that solution to the plenary. Paragraph 7. Switzerland.

Switzerland:
Thank you, Madam Chair. We would like to reiterate our position regarding the changes to Article 57, Paragraph 7. The current changes significantly reduce the possibility for the multi-stakeholder community. to engage meaningfully in a future review mechanism. Meaningful involvement of non-governmental stakeholders is vital to contribute to ensuring that the Convention is not misused. We propose to go back to the previous formulation that was agreed at referendum, reflecting the valuable contribution that non-state actors bring to fighting cybercrime. Thank you.

Chair:
Switzerland, are you talking about paragraph seven? Okay, Egypt.

Egypt:
Thank you very much, Madam Chair. Egypt supports the formulation that you have proposed as a solution for this paragraph. The review mechanism is an intergovernmental mechanism in all forums that is relevant to UNODC and other forums, and we should keep it as such. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Chair:
Merci beaucoup. Thank you very much. Canada.

Canada:
Merci, Madame la Présidente. Thank you, Madam Chair. Canada supports the statement from the Distinguished Delegate of Switzerland that explained very well the reasons why we need to return to agreed language. The COSP hasn’t been established yet, so we can’t really say if it’s one way or another. It’s up to us to decide it, and that’s what we’re talking about. If some governments think that they can better combat cyber crime alone, I respect their opinion, but I don’t share it. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Chair:
Merci beaucoup. Thank you very much. Tanzania, please.

Tanzania:
Thank you, Madam Chair. My delegation supports your text as currently drafted. Thank you.

Chair:
Merci beaucoup. Thank you very much. Liechtenstein.

Liechtenstein:
Thank you very much. We fully support the meaningful engagement of multi-stakeholders in the review mechanism, and therefore we would support the proposal by Switzerland. Thank you.

Chair:
Thank you. The United States.

United States:
Thank you, Madam Chair. The United States supports Switzerland’s intervention. We think that the current text on the screen presupposes a conversation that the COSP will have in the future regarding the review mechanism. So we strongly support retaining the language in the previous draft. Thank you.

Chair:
Thank you. Iran.

Iran:
Thank you, Madam Chairman, for your proposal, as it is a new proposal, and even we are not very happy with this language. But in order to reach agreement regarding this paragraph, we would like to propose in the second part that after the estate parties shall endeavor, after endeavor we use to the extent possible. So it will read as estate parties shall endeavor to the extent possible to consult at the national level with relevant international and regional organizations. Thank you.

Chair:
Thank you. Thank you, Morocco.

Morocco:
Thank you, Madam Chair. Morocco supports the PARA as drafted by the Chair. Thank you.

Chair:
Thank you very much, Norway.

Norway:
Thank you, Madam Chair. We would like to support the Swiss proposal. Thank you.

Chair:
Thank you, Australia.

Australia:
Thank you, Chair. Australia would also like to support the proposal of Switzerland to revert to the previous language. Thank you.

Chair:
Pakistan.

Pakistan:
Thank you, Madam Chair. We would like to express our support for the paragraph as you drafted. Thank you.

Chair:
Thank you, Pakistan. Georgia.

Georgia:
Thank you, Chair. Georgia also joins Switzerland requesting reintroduction of earlier language. Thank you.

Chair:
Thank you very much, New Zealand.

New Zealand:
Thank you, Chair. New Zealand would also support Switzerland’s proposal to return to the previously agreed language. Thank you, Chair.

Chair:
Mauritania.

Mauritania:
Shukran. Thank you. We support the text of Paragraph 7 as drafted by the Chair.

Chair:
The United Kingdom.

United Kingdom:
Thank you, Madam Chair. The United Kingdom would also like to support the proposal made by Switzerland. Thank you.

Chair:
Russian Federation.

Russian Federation:
Thank you, Madam Chair. Distinguished colleagues, I would like to draw your attention to the fact that Paragraph 7 and 8 of Article 57 create an impression of duplication. Paragraph 8 of Article 57 talks about the creation of any appropriate mechanisms to assist in the effective implementation of the Convention. Quite frankly, I would like to simply delete the second sentence of Paragraph 7 so as not to make the situation worse and to try and achieve progress. I would support the proposal – apologies, colleagues, I’m not sure who made this proposal – but to add, to the extent possible, after shall endeavor. Thank you.

Chair:
Could you repeat your proposal, Russia? Thank you.

Russian Federation:
Paragraph 7 of Article 57, the second sentence, after where it says state parties shall endeavor. Comma, to the extent possible. And I apologize, I didn’t note which of the distinguished colleagues made that proposal, but Russia supports that proposal. Thank you.

Chair:
Thank you. The committee has taken note. Saudi Arabia, please.

Saudi Arabia:
Thank you, Madam Chair. We support the text of Para 7 as it is drafted, and we support the proposal of Morocco in relation to Para 6. Thank you.

Chair:
Thank you. India. Thank you.

India:
Thank you, Madam Chair. India supports Para 7 as it has been presently drafted. Thank you.

Chair:
Albania. Thank you.

Albania:
Albania supports the proposal made by Switzerland. Thank you.

Chair:
Merci. Thank you. Japan.

Japan:
Japan also supports the proposal by Switzerland. Thank you.

Chair:
Tunisia.

Tunisia:
Tunisia supports the draft as presented by the chair, and we see that the second sentence strikes the balance needed in this sentence. Thank you.

Chair:
European Union.

European Union:
Merci, Madame la Présidente. Thank you, Madam Chair. The proposal made by Switzerland.

Chair:
Indonesia. Thank you.

Indonesia:
Indonesia supports the current text as proposed by the chair. Thank you.

Chair:
Okay, things are clear then. There’s still no understanding, so Mr. Vice-Chair, you’re going to add this, paragraph 6. to your basket, seven, six and seven. Paragraph eight is already agreed at referendum, so we’ve finished article 57. Article 58 concerns the Secretariat. And please be kind, because they’ve done a great deal of work, and it’s the same Secretariat that’s going to be doing this. On article 58, relating to the Secretariat, only paragraph one is pending. You will undoubtedly recall that in the new version of the draft revised text of the Convention, it says that the Secretary General, or the Secretary General of the United Nations, or the Secretary General, or the Secretary General in the feminine in French, shall provide the necessary Secretariat services to the Conference of the States Parties to the Convention. This paragraph has not been amended in the updated version of the text. Can I consider that the Ad Hoc Committee agrees to paragraph one of article 58, and consequently all of article 58? Is there any opposition? Okay. Agreed at referendum. And we’ve finished article 58. Final provisions. We’ve got time to do this. Let’s look now at the chapter on final provisions. Article 59, implementation of the Convention. Under article 59, on the implementation of the Convention, only paragraph two is still pending. What does the committee think? Are you ready to agree? Paragraph 2 of Article 59, Ad Referendum. Are there any objections in the room? No? Secretariat, please note, adopted, agreed Ad Referendum. Moving on to Article 60, Effects of the Convention. Under Article 60 on Effects of the Convention, only Paragraph 1 is still pending. Is the Committee ready to adopt it, Ad Referendum? Paragraph 1, so Article… So, Article 60, Effects of the Convention, Paragraph 1. Egypt.

Egypt:
I’m terribly sorry, Madam Chair, can we go back to 59?

Chair:
Yes, of course.

Egypt:
Thank you, Madam Chair, I accept. Thank you.

Chair:
Allez-y, l’Egypte. Please go ahead, Egypt.

Egypt:
Egypt is concurring your decision on agreed Ad Ref on this paragraph. Thank you.

Chair:
Donc, le Comité… So, the Committee and Egypt has agreed. Agreed Ad Referendum for Article 59. Thank you. Article 60. Paragraph 1. This is the only one that is pending, and I’m going to slow down. Can we agree this paragraph? OK, Secretariat, agreed. Oh, Iran.

Iran:
Thank you, Madam Chair. Regarding the Paragraph 1 of the Article 60, we had an extensive discussion. Such a formula is called in the Paragraph 1 is called, as you are well aware, as a disconnection clauses. Taking a broader approach, it must be recalled that such disconnection clauses have been used almost extensively and exclusively in the Council of Europe Conventions and only very exceptionally at a more global level. Generally, on an international level, such clauses have been met with resistance. In particular, the European Union was unable to introduce a disconnection clause in the WTO agreement and we don’t have such a precedent, such a formula or provision in the UNCOC and UNTAC. So, it is a new language and we have a reservation about this paragraph. Thank you.

Chair:
Thank you. Thank you. Tanzania.

Tanzania:
Thank you, Madam Chair. My delegation continues to oppose the inclusion of this particular provision for the obvious reasons. Its formulation may hinder effective implementation of this particular instrument and we think in the context of the UN Convention, it is unprecedented and we therefore continue to oppose its inclusion. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Chair:
Thank you very much. El Salvador.

El Salvador:
Thank you very much, Chair. For El Salvador, Article 60, Paragraph 1, is ambiguous in terms of its implementation because it doesn’t clearly define the relationship with the UN. legal effects that arise under the draft convention regarding other instruments that are legally binding on the same issue. We recommend adding a subparagraph according to which it would be established that for the effects of this convention and regarding the treaties or agreements that are regulated by the parties on issues corresponding to this convention the rules of international law of treaties would apply. Thank you very much Madam Chair.

Chair:
Thank you very much. It’s clear we’re not going to adopt paragraph 1 of this article 60. So for the time being at any case, so representative of El Salvador, would you like to send your proposal in English to the Secretariat so that it can be circulated to all member states and then we can have a look at it. Thank you very much. I’ll move to article 62 settlement of disputes. Paragraph 2 is still not agreed. Article 62 paragraph 2. 1 and 3 have been agreed. So paragraph 2 of article 62. Can we accept it? Secretariat please note agreed at referendum. Article 63 signature, ratification, acceptance, approval and accession. This article has already been agreed at referendum. However, I did make a change in Paragraph 1 to allow for the usual option of opening the Convention for Signature at United Nations Headquarters in New York until a date to be clarified by the Committee. The possibility of opening the Convention for Signature earlier has been deleted. Other States may also envisage expressly including the date of opening of Signature, which should take into account the date of the Convention’s adoption by the General Assembly, as well as the time necessary for the Depository to get the text ready for Signature. The relevant wording will be as follows, this Convention shall be open to all States for Signature at United Nations Headquarters in New York from the date in brackets until and then the date in brackets. Does the Committee agree to that amendment to the updated draft text of the Convention? No. Russia?

Russian Federation:
Thank you, Madam Chair. I’m not going to dispute the place of the entry into force of the Convention. I just wanted to draw attention to the fact that it seems to me that there’s a difference between what you said in French and what is written in paragraph 1 in the English from until. I think that that is different from until. So I would like to understand what until means. Does that mean that we are limiting it to? some date in the future of the possibility of the convention entering into force. Because that creates a risk that the convention might not manage to enter into force in time if a high threshold of the number of ratifications needed for entry into force is established. So the Russian Federation would propose that we replace the word until with the word from and then have the date. Thank you.

Chair:
The committee has heard Russia’s proposal, that is to say from. Really, it’s semantics, it’s from one date to another date. We could use any word that we want, it’s not going to change a thing, but I’ll give the floor to John who’s going to explain the difference perhaps.

Director:
Thank you, Madam Chair. And first let me start by saying that the Secretary at UNODC has had the Office of the Legal Affairs review these final provisions. They actually need to clear them before we move forward. And they have cleared what’s in there at the moment. Just to say that usually relating to treaties, there is an end date for signatures after which people can still become parties to the convention, but they adhere instead of being a signatory and then ratifying. So the result is the same, but usually and generally there’s an end date for opening the convention for signature. And OLA, the Office of Legal Affairs, has also said to us that when we adopt the convention, they will need at least six to nine weeks to get everything ready to prepare for the signature, to be open to signature. So we would recommend having a from date to a date until the signatures, a final date for signatures, but that from date, we may not know what that is until we know when this is going to be adopted. So that would be a recommendation, of course, the committee is free to not have that from date, but we would recommend that there be a date, a final date for where signatures then would not happen, but people could still become, governments could still become parties by adhering. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Chair:
Regarding the entrance into force, this is not the first convention, the first international convention at the United Nations. We can all agree that there are numerous conventions that have been adopted before. We hope in any case that it will be adopted. There is already an established practice and we are not going to innovate. So if you wish, I will once again contact the legal advisor. With John, we will ask them to present the formulation that is usually used in conventions for on this part. Russia, I give you the, I saw you, I will give you the floor again.

Russian Federation:
Madam Chair, I found your explanation and the explanation of the director entirely justified and convincing. So Russia would like to withdraw its objection.

Chair:
You accept the text as it has been proposed? Good. Is the rest of the committee in agreement? There are no objections? Everything’s okay, but we will still verify just to make sure that it is – it adheres to the usual practice very well. So it has been agreed to add a ref. Article 64, entry into force. Article 64 is still subject to informal consultations, so we will move to the very last provision which is signature of the Convention, but I think that there are still ongoing discussions, so I will leave this part to the conclusion of all of the consultations. So we have concluded the review of this section, Article 64. We will move to the preamble. It is 5.30. Are you ready to begin with the preamble or should we leave it for tomorrow morning? What are your thoughts on this? Are you ready to start working on the preamble? Can we move forward? Yes, Russia?

Russian Federation:
Thank you, Madam Chair. I would like to propose that we use the remaining time to discuss Article 64, in particular its paragraph 1. It’s clear to everyone already that this issue is the subject of disagreements in the Ad Hoc Committee, and I’d like to hear from the room about what… the threshold of ratification would be preferable for the committee, because that opinion is going to form the basis, I think, of any subsequent process of trying to find a consensus. Thank you.

Chair:
Thank you. Canada?

Canada:
Thank you very much, Madam Chair. I have a question. I thought that we were on Article 63. There was an agreement on 63.1, but 63.2, 3, 4, I think they weren’t agreed. Am I mistaken, or can we review this now? Thank you very much.

Chair:
Merci. Thank you. As I already mentioned, normally everything’s fine. It’s done, but if you want to talk about Article 63, please go ahead. I’m not opposed to that. We will conclude with this. If we conclude with this issue today, it is even better. Please go ahead on Article 63. For Article 63.2, 3, 4, Canada has no objection. 2, 3, I would rather say. But I think that this might be an opportunity to maintain the language that we had. We can agree to this if there are no disagreements. Okay. Let’s go ahead. Paragraphs 2 and 3 and 4. Subparagraphs 2, 3 and 4. We’ll do as we’ve done in every other case, paragraph by paragraph. Article 63.2. Are there any objections? Vietnam, is this regarding Article 63, Paragraph 2? You requested the floor, yes?

Vietnam:
Madam Chair, we don’t have issue with 63 for now, but we have mentioned in previous sections we have an issue with the very last line of the Convention, where it said, like, the signatories to the Convention must be authorised by their respective governments, and because we know that if we are not clear on this, then when we submit the full powers to sign, we will indicate in our full powers that the signatory is authorised by the State President, which is a higher authority than the government in our system, so we want to be clear on that, and we don’t want to have issue with the UN Offices of Legal Affairs later on. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Chair:
Excusez-moi. Excuse me. I will turn the clock back to zero. Following Canada’s statement, we are reviewing, we’re talking about Article 623. We dealt with 623.1, we’re dealing with Paragraph 2, and then after that we have Paragraph 3, and then finally Paragraph 4, all of Article 623. As we’ve done with all of the other articles, I’m going to go paragraph by paragraph. So right now we’re on Paragraph 2, 623.2. What countries have something to say about this paragraph, Article 63, Paragraph 2? I see that Mexico, Iran and Morocco. Is this regarding 623.2? Morocco says yes. Iran? Is it Paragraph 2 as well? No, I’m sorry, I haven’t given the floor yet. Mexico, is it 63-2 as well? Okay, so Mexico, Iran, Morocco, the Democratic Republic of Congo, Mexico has the floor.

Mexico:
Thank you very much, Madam Chair. In reality, it’s regarding Article 64. We would like to request a motion on procedure just to listen to the delegations in the room who would like to express their preference.

Chair:
Sorry, 63-2, we are going to go in order because if we don’t do that, then we will have confusion. 63-2, Iran, please.

Iran:
As you are well aware, we have in the – regarding the Article 2, we have the definition of the economic integration organization, we have some consideration. So here, we would like to propose to delete economic integration and use regional organization as a general term in paragraph 2, 3, and 4 of this article. Thank you.

Chair:
Thank you very much, Morocco has the floor.

Morocco:
Thank you, Madam Chair. I actually have a quick editorial comment on the second line. We have a member before state. We want to highlight that it should be in capital, which what we use usually in UN language. So both member and state should appear in capital letters. Thank you.

Chair:
Yes. It’s a drafting issue, yes. She’s right, it’s a capital M, Republic of the Congo. It’s the Democratic Republic of Congo. Okay. Democratic Republic of the Congo. You’re right. Thank you.

Democratic Republic of the Congo:
I have to do that. All right. I need your assistance, Madam Chair. Can you hear me? Okay. All right. Exactly. I have an observation to make. It’s a grammatical issue. To say that. As long as at least. That would be our observation, that would be the correct grammar. You are right, but that is the language coordination group will deal with that. Thank you very much.

Chair:
Are there any reactions to Iran’s proposal on this paragraph two? I would like to remind you that we would like to eliminate economic integration European Union.

European Union:
Thank you very much, Madam Chair. Actually, I don’t understand this very well. I thought that this had been agreed at a refer and I don’t see why we are reopening the discussion. I would like to abstain from reopening subjects that have been agreed upon. It’s just a question. It’s a question on principle.

Chair:
No European Union. Article 64. Paragraph one had been agreed at a ref, but two, three and four have not been agreed. So actually Canada, in fact, made that comment. So we are dealing with 63.2 and Iran proposed deleting integration organizations.

Canada:
Thank you very much, Madam Chair. I’m sorry about the confusion, but I’m wondering if maybe we had not agreed ad ref all of the articles because it was mentioned for the – but my colleague from Cameroon might be able to confirm that the entire article, article 6231234, had been agreed ad ref last time. The Secretariat can confirm this, but if it is confirmed, I’m very satisfied and we can move on to another topic.

Chair:
Clearly Iran had made a comment, so it hasn’t been agreed ad ref by everybody. I will explain very frankly what the situation is. I also thought that only paragraph 1 was pending, but now I see on the screen that 2, 3, and 4 have not been agreed. That means that they haven’t been agreed and we need to reach an agreement on them. In any case, there was a comment by Iran regarding 63 paragraph 2, and some additions were put forth by Morocco and Congo, so I think it is appropriate to review them. Is this clear? We’re dealing with article 63 paragraph 2? We have Iran’s proposal. Can you tell me, please, if you accept it or not? I have the European Union, Jamaica, and the United States. European Union, please. Yes.

European Union:
Thank you very much, Madam Chair. It’s not clear yet for me because on the screen. I see that it says agreed at a referendum for the entire article. I’m referring to Article 63 on the screen. You see that on the text on the UN site, it also mentions agreed at a ref for the entire article. So I’m just surprised that we are reopening a discussion on a text that had been agreed at a ref. This, I think, is a slippery slope. I think that the delegations that have made amendments to a text that has already been agreed upon should perhaps reconsider their positions. Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Chair:
Thank you very much. It’s proof that we’re all tired. I think we will stop the meeting now. I’m going to verify with the Secretariat because there is a difference between what was submitted to us and what we see on the screen. And I’m following the proposals of Member States. Canada said that we still had to review all of these matters. So this is exactly why I asked the committee to present their point of view. And of course, the committee always has the last word. So please give me the time to verify with the Secretariat. I’ll do that right away. And tomorrow morning at 10, we will be – everything will be more clear – clearer for us. Thank you very much. Tomorrow morning, we will be dealing with Article 63. Thank you very much. Are there any – does anybody wish to make any comments at this point? Iran?

Iran:
No, I know that all of us are somehow tired, but our proposal has been raised because of the link between the Article 2 regarding the definition of the Economic Integration Organization, this paragraph. But also, if it is possible, we have 10 minutes with your indulgence working on the interagency report.

Chair:
No, no. No, thank you, really, really, no, thank you. Thank you very much. The meeting is adjourned. you you you you you Beep. Beep.

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21 words per minute

Speech length

8 words

Speech time

23 secs

L

Liechtenstein

Speech speed

129 words per minute

Speech length

70 words

Speech time

33 secs

M

Mauritania

Speech speed

60 words per minute

Speech length

63 words

Speech time

63 secs

M

Mexico

Speech speed

130 words per minute

Speech length

95 words

Speech time

44 secs

M

Morocco

Speech speed

144 words per minute

Speech length

381 words

Speech time

159 secs

M

Mozambique

Speech speed

124 words per minute

Speech length

52 words

Speech time

25 secs

N

Namibia

Speech speed

139 words per minute

Speech length

75 words

Speech time

32 secs

N

Nepal

Speech speed

159 words per minute

Speech length

145 words

Speech time

55 secs

N

Netherlands

Speech speed

198 words per minute

Speech length

32 words

Speech time

10 secs

NZ

New Zealand

Speech speed

145 words per minute

Speech length

52 words

Speech time

22 secs

N

Nicaragua

Speech speed

136 words per minute

Speech length

84 words

Speech time

37 secs

N

Nigeria

Speech speed

170 words per minute

Speech length

178 words

Speech time

63 secs

N

Norway

Speech speed

145 words per minute

Speech length

238 words

Speech time

99 secs

P

Pakistan

Speech speed

118 words per minute

Speech length

22 words

Speech time

11 secs

P

Panama

Speech speed

151 words per minute

Speech length

31 words

Speech time

12 secs

RF

Russian Federation

Speech speed

134 words per minute

Speech length

867 words

Speech time

389 secs

R

Rwanda

Speech speed

170 words per minute

Speech length

17 words

Speech time

6 secs

ST

Sao Tome and Principe

Speech speed

162 words per minute

Speech length

25 words

Speech time

9 secs

SA

Saudi Arabia

Speech speed

137 words per minute

Speech length

33 words

Speech time

14 secs

S

Senegal

Speech speed

102 words per minute

Speech length

128 words

Speech time

76 secs

SA

South Africa

Speech speed

163 words per minute

Speech length

156 words

Speech time

57 secs

S

Switzerland

Speech speed

163 words per minute

Speech length

134 words

Speech time

49 secs

T

Tanzania

Speech speed

85 words per minute

Speech length

86 words

Speech time

61 secs

T

Thailand

Speech speed

58 words per minute

Speech length

17 words

Speech time

18 secs

T

Tunisia

Speech speed

123 words per minute

Speech length

74 words

Speech time

36 secs

U

Uganda

Speech speed

147 words per minute

Speech length

35 words

Speech time

14 secs

UK

United Kingdom

Speech speed

160 words per minute

Speech length

80 words

Speech time

30 secs

US

United States

Speech speed

163 words per minute

Speech length

513 words

Speech time

189 secs

U

Uruguay

Speech speed

161 words per minute

Speech length

66 words

Speech time

25 secs

V

Vanuatu

Speech speed

127 words per minute

Speech length

36 words

Speech time

17 secs

VC

Vice Chair

Speech speed

114 words per minute

Speech length

152 words

Speech time

80 secs

V

Vietnam

Speech speed

101 words per minute

Speech length

841 words

Speech time

501 secs

Z

Zimbabwe

Speech speed

178 words per minute

Speech length

74 words

Speech time

25 secs