WS #179 Navigating Online Safety for Children and Youth

Summary

This panel discussion focused on online safety for children and youth in the digital age. Panelists and audience members from various countries shared insights on the challenges and potential solutions for protecting young people online.

Key issues raised included the need for age-appropriate design in digital platforms, the importance of digital literacy education for both children and parents, and the challenges of implementing effective age verification systems. Participants highlighted the global nature of online risks, with similar issues affecting youth across different regions.

There was consensus that online safety requires collaboration between multiple stakeholders, including tech companies, policymakers, educators, and parents. Panelists emphasized the importance of involving children themselves in discussions about online safety policies and practices.

The discussion touched on the tension between implementing universal standards for online safety and adapting approaches to diverse cultural and legal contexts. Some argued for principle-based rather than prescriptive regulations to allow for flexibility across regions.

Participants debated the effectiveness of outright bans on youth access to certain platforms versus implementing robust safety-by-design principles. The role of tech companies in proactively ensuring child safety was a recurring theme, with some calling for greater corporate responsibility.

The need for improved digital literacy programs, both in schools and for parents, was widely agreed upon. Participants also stressed the importance of building children’s confidence and awareness to navigate online risks, rather than relying solely on external protections.

Overall, the discussion highlighted the complex, multifaceted nature of ensuring online safety for youth and the ongoing need for innovative, collaborative approaches to address emerging challenges in the digital landscape.

Keypoints

Major discussion points:

– The need for collaboration between stakeholders (tech companies, parents, educators, policymakers) to ensure online safety for children and youth

– The importance of designing safety features by default into online platforms, rather than relying solely on parental controls

– Challenges in implementing global standards for online safety given different cultural and legal contexts across countries

– The role of digital literacy education for children, parents and educators

– Balancing protection with allowing children to benefit from online opportunities

The overall purpose of the discussion was to explore strategies and challenges related to ensuring online safety for children and youth in an increasingly digital world.

The tone of the discussion was thoughtful and constructive, with panelists and audience members offering different perspectives but generally agreeing on the importance of the issue. There was a sense of urgency about addressing online risks for young people, balanced with recognition of the complexities involved. The tone became slightly more critical when discussing the responsibilities of tech companies, but remained largely collaborative in seeking solutions.

Speakers

– Millenium Anthony: Moderator

– Keith Andere: MAG member for Kenya IGF, former coordinator for African Youth IGF, part of coordination team for Global Youth IGF

– Nikki Colaco: VP of Public Policy at Roblox

– Nirvana Lima: Brazilian researcher on digital cultures, especially kids and teens and youth

– Ponsleit (name might have been misspelled): From the Gambia NRI

– Saba Tiku Beyene: Online moderator

Additional speakers:

– Joshua: From Uganda, Internet Society chapter Uganda, developer

– William: From South Africa, works with children on online safety

– Leander: Executive director of the Five Rights Foundation

Online Safety for Children and Youth: A Global Perspective

This panel discussion, moderated by Millennium Anthony, brought together experts from various countries to explore the challenges and potential solutions for protecting young people in the digital age. The panellists included Keith Andere, coordinator for the African Youth IGF from Kenya, Nikki Colasso, VP of Public Policy at Roblox, and Nirvana Lima, a Brazilian researcher on digital cultures focusing on kids, teens, and youth. Additional contributions came from online participants and audience members.

Key Challenges in Ensuring Online Safety

The discussion highlighted several significant challenges in protecting children and youth online:

1. Digital Literacy Gap: There is a widespread lack of awareness and digital literacy among both children and parents, exacerbated by a generational digital divide.

2. Resource Disparities: Low-income families often face issues of shared devices and inappropriate content exposure, while rural areas struggle with implementing effective online safety measures. An audience member highlighted specific challenges faced in rural India, emphasizing the global nature of these issues.

3. Cultural Differences: The need for region-specific policies due to cultural variations was emphasised, complicating efforts to establish universal standards.

4. Technological Hurdles: Implementing effective age verification systems while protecting user privacy remains a significant challenge.

5. Content Moderation: Nikki Colasso noted the challenges in addressing differences in content moderation across cultures.

Strategies for Promoting Online Safety

The panellists and contributors proposed several strategies to address these challenges:

1. Safety by Design: Nikki Colasso advocated for implementing safety principles in product development from the outset, rather than relying solely on parental controls.

2. Principle-Based Policies: There was a call for developing flexible, principle-based policies rather than prescriptive regulations to allow for adaptation across different regions.

3. Education Integration: Nirvana Lima stressed the importance of integrating media education into school curricula to build digital literacy from an early age. She also shared insights from her research on kidfluencers and the concept of prosumers, highlighting the changing landscape of children’s online engagement.

4. National Legislation: Ponsleit, an online contributor, suggested implementing Online Safety Acts at the national level, citing the UK’s Online Safety Act as an example of providing a legal framework for protection.

5. Confidence Building: Keith Andere emphasised the need to focus on building children’s confidence and digital literacy skills to navigate online risks.

6. Developer Involvement: Joshua, a contributor from Uganda, highlighted the crucial role of developers in creating safe online environments, suggesting the involvement of open source communities in developing safety features.

Stakeholder Collaboration and Responsibilities

A recurring theme throughout the discussion was the necessity of collaboration between multiple stakeholders:

1. Tech Companies: The role of corporations in proactively ensuring child safety was debated, with some calling for greater corporate responsibility. William from South Africa critiqued Roblox’s safety measures, to which Nikki Colasso responded by outlining the company’s efforts.

2. Policymakers: The need for cross-border collaboration and harmonised legal frameworks was highlighted by Keith Andere.

3. Educators: The importance of digital literacy programs in schools was widely agreed upon.

4. Parents: While parental awareness is crucial, Nikki Colasso argued that relying solely on parental controls is unrealistic.

5. Children: The importance of involving children themselves in discussions about online safety policies was emphasised.

Cultural and Legal Considerations

The discussion touched on the complexities of implementing online safety measures across diverse cultural and legal contexts:

1. Global Standards vs Local Adaptation: Keith Andere highlighted the need to adapt global standards to local contexts and legal frameworks. Leander from the Five Rights Foundation provided important context about global standards and corporate responsibility.

2. Online-Offline Continuity: Keith Andere suggested applying offline regulations to online spaces where appropriate.

3. Principle-Based Approach: To address cultural variations, there was support for adopting principle-based policies rather than prescriptive ones.

Unresolved Issues and Future Directions

Despite the productive discussion, several issues remained unresolved:

1. Age Verification: Balancing effective age verification with privacy concerns continues to be a significant challenge.

2. Global vs Local Approaches: Finding the right balance between global standards and local cultural contexts requires further exploration.

3. Resource Disparities: Addressing the gap in resources between countries for implementing online safety measures remains a concern.

4. Rural and Low-Income Access: Making online safety education accessible in rural and low-income areas needs further attention.

Conclusion

The discussion highlighted the complex, multifaceted nature of ensuring online safety for youth in the digital age. While there was general consensus on the importance of the issue and the need for collaborative approaches, differences emerged in the specific strategies proposed. The panellists and contributors emphasised the need for innovative solutions that balance protection with allowing children to benefit from online opportunities.

Moving forward, the key takeaways include the need for multi-stakeholder collaboration, the importance of both technical solutions and education initiatives, and the necessity of adaptable approaches that consider diverse cultural contexts. As online safety for children and youth continues to evolve, ongoing dialogue and cooperation between tech companies, policymakers, educators, parents, developers, and young people themselves will be crucial in developing effective and comprehensive solutions.

Millenium Anthony: And here with me today, I’m joined with my panelists. So I’ll also give them an opportunity to introduce themselves. And we actually have one more speaker who is just joining us right now. Yes, I’ll start with you, Keith. Please introduce yourself, and then we’ll go around.

Keith Andere: Thank you so much, Millennium, and friends and colleagues. Good afternoon. I’m hearing myself, so I’ll just remove the mic and hope that I’m also audible. My name is Keith Andere. I am from Kenya, and I am an IGFer in the sense that I’m a MAG member for Kenya IGF, but also I’ve served previously as the coordinator for the African Youth IGF. And I’m pleased to also be part of the coordination team for the Global Youth IGF that has put together this year’s summit. So happy to be here, and looking forward to a great session.

Millenium Anthony: Thank you so much, Keith.

Nikki Colasso: I hope you can hear me. And I can also hear myself, so I’m going to take my headphones off. I’m Nikki Colasso, and I’m VP of Public Policy at Roblox, which is a gaming company that some of you may know as a children’s gaming company. But actually, we have many different ages of people that play Roblox. I am based in the US in the San Francisco Bay Area, but I’m pleased to be joined by colleagues here from the UK and also the EU. And I had the pleasure of being at IGF in Ethiopia two years ago, and I remember the youth council there. So I guess I’m also an IGFer. This is my third consecutive, and I’m thrilled to be here. So thank you.

Nirvana Lima: Thank you. Yes. Hi, everyone. Sorry I’m kind of late. I lost my badge and I need to get another. So my name is Nirvana Lima. I’m a Brazilian researcher on digital cultures, especially in kids and teens and youth. And I’m here to speak with you about my research and my work in Brazil. I have a master’s degree in communication and a solid experience in this topic. So thank you so much, Milenium, for the invitation. It’s a pleasure being with you here today.

Millenium Anthony: Thank you so much, my dear panelists. Today, we also joined with our online moderator. We have Sabah here, so she’s going to be helping out with moderating online participants. So this session, mainly, we’re going to be discussing about online safety for children and youth. So we have seen children and youth are now getting more exposed to online spaces. And online spaces are no longer safe for them. So we have seen, let’s say, we have seen, I think, like in the couple of previous months, we have seen parents shooing the big tech companies because their children are no longer safe and all that. So this is really an important discussion that we have to discuss and see the challenges that are there and strategies on how we can help now these young people to stay safe online. So we have different questions that are going to be guiding, the policy questions that are going to be guiding our discussion today. And I’ll just mention them quickly. But as I go through my panelists, I’ll ask them individual questions. And the policy questions that are going to be guiding us, one says, how can stakeholders collaborate effectively to empower parents and children in ensuring online safety? What strategies are most effective in promoting active participation in securing the digital space? And the second one says, in the dynamic digital environment, What key indicators should be considered when designing online safety programs to ensure their relevance and effectiveness in addressing emerging risks faced by children and youth? And the last policy question says, considering the diverse cultural context and legal frameworks globally, what innovative approaches can be adapted to reconcile differences and establish universal standards for online safety interventions, particularly in regions with varying levels of internet access and digital literacy? So I’ll now go to my speakers and I’ll start with you, Nikki. From your experience at platforms like Instagram and Roblox, what innovative safety tools and policies have proven effective in empowering parents and children to ensure online safety? And also, how can these approaches be adapted to different cultural contexts?

Nikki Colasso: Yeah, I wish I had a perfect answer, but I’ll tell you what I think. And I’ll speak mostly from the tech perspective since I work for a private company. I think that we are in a moment, I think it’s longer than a moment, but we’re in a place where there is acknowledgement that tech companies need to do more. And a lot of the practices that used to kind of feel good or, can you hear me? I just lost sound, okay. Have to be updated for where we are in 2024 going into 2025. And so I remember a time when we talked a lot about parental controls and empowering parents to make decisions. And there is no doubt in my mind that that is critical and that all companies, Roblox included. need to give parents these tools and they need to put them in a place where they are empowered. At the same time, I am also a parent and I look at my phone. My kids don’t have smartphones, but parents have tens and tens and tens of different apps on their phone. Even the most curious and technologically savvy parents cannot possibly navigate to each individual app, set parental controls, learn that app. I think it’s not realistic. And so, of course, those controls need to be there and we need to be providing these tools so that parents have them and they need to be dynamic and they need to work. But I think that where we are now is really looking at defaults and looking at what are the initial settings on these platforms, including Roblox, and acknowledging that we need to provide that safety net in addition to the parental controls. And that is a responsibility that tech companies have. And defaults will look different from platform to platform, but acknowledging that it can’t just be about parental controls because parents are overwhelmed. We actually have to establish these tools on the tech side. So I think to me, in terms of dynamic approach, I do think that combination of defaults and parental controls is important.

Millenium Anthony: Okay, thank you very much, Nikki. So I wanna come to you, Keith, following from whatever that Nikki has said. Do you think it’s right? Now, we have seen the safety of children and youth online is now endangered. Do you think, from your perspective, do you think it’s right to just stop these kids from accessing online platforms, I mean, the internet, or just putting some measures to control their use? What is your thought on that?

Keith Andere: Thank you so much for the question. I think I’ll speak in two fronts. One, as a general internet user, and secondly, as somebody who is coming from a global south. I think right now we are moving everything online, be it government services, be it education. Life post-pandemic has shifted and has necessitated technological use to the extent that hadn’t been there before. So for us as adults wanting to engage in sessions such as IGF, for example, here, and we have colleagues and friends who are connected online, it eases a lot of pressure on how we can engage here. If for one reason or another somebody is not here, they are still able to connect and follow this session. Rightfully, like you said, we now have an online moderator, something that perhaps before COVID, it was not anything that we would think of. Like can we even put online engagement, for example. So post-pandemic, we can’t go back to pre-pandemic era, in the sense that it’s an oxymoron for us to want to have government services online, all the kind of engagements that we have. We now have working from home kind of concepts, which before pandemic, the freelancers were being seen as somebody who’s not serious. So for children, I see that it’s zero-sum math if we want to deter them from utilizing online applications and all of these things for whatever thing that they do. How then do we make it safe? I think the principle of security is a very fundamental aspect, not just on apps, but even on internet. When you’re talking about internet, there are certain parameters that come to our mind. You know, open, free, accessible, secure, and all manner of things. So, these kids are already growing. How do we deter them from going online? Yet, we are all going online. And in the next two, three years, they’ll become adults. So, I see that we as stakeholders in whatever format that we are in, whether civil society, whether governments, whether youth, or all these people, we need to start thinking security by design. And one of the things is having the kids here, so that we are not speaking for them, but we are also listening what they are saying. So, we’ve seen women in IGF, children in, I mean, youth in IGF, but I long to see the children component within the IGF space, so that these young kids can come and speak what their challenges are, but not having me as somebody who’s on the larger bracket of youth speak about children and I can’t identify with them. So, I think, to sum up the question, we really need to protect them, but we also need to have them come and speak. So, that for me is something that I would like to see going forward, more children in IGF spaces. Thank you.

Millenium Anthony: Thank you so much, Keith. So, we have, I mean, the current discussion is basically on how now we can protect these kids and youth online. I want you, Nirvana, to please tell us what do you think, I think you did a research on digital cultures in childhood, right? And what are the most pressing challenges that kids and youth face online? So, maybe we don’t know, maybe what do you think are the most pressing challenges that kids and youth face?

Nirvana Lima: Okay, I’m going to bring a Brazilian perspective for the field. First of all, I’d like to thank Odisha. for the opportunity of being here speaking to all of you today. And I want to express one more time my gratitude to Mailenian and last but not least to my youth members from Youth Brazil. Please, please raise your hands. Okay, thank you, whom I have the pleasure of facilitating in the year of 2024. I’ll begin my answer saying that this question is quite complex. But it’s so as the phenomenon of kidfluencers that is the topic, the main topic of my research. The term digital influencer has undergone a discursive shift in Brazilian market, media and research, even academic research, especially since 2015. This shift is linked to the entry of new platforms into contact content production landscape because the concept is still evolving. Its definitions change fast. However, one thing is undeniable. Young creators are driving discussions around celebrity culture and consumerism while also remaining as vulnerable as the audiences consumer their content. Kids and teens today are prosumers just like me, just like you and all of you. But do you know the meaning of prosumer? Anyone here? Prosumer? So the term prosumer was created by Alvin Toffler in early 80s. And when he predicts that the roles of producer and consumer would increasingly blur. Nowadays, even children who are not yet literate can be the creator, creators or play a starring role on videos. photos, or vital content with either commercial or purely entertainment proposals. According to the last Tee Kids Online Brazil survey, 88% of children and adolescents aged 9 to 17 have social media profiles. On one hand, this is a milestone reflecting the growing digitalization of Brazilian society. On the other hand, we can’t ignore the risks that come with this online presence, which exposes young people to potential harm, such as personal safety, reputation, or security. The truth is that kids and teens are not digital natives, despite what some may claim. This generation learns how to navigate online through trial and error, just like everyone else. They are vulnerable to exploitation, not only of their personal data, but also within the influenced economy, which includes advertising agencies and talent agents for child celebrities. The data they generate can be used for commercial exploit and for target ads, or even to manipulate their emotions, beliefs, and opinions. For an entire generation, the internet is a double-edged sword, like we used to say in Brazil. While it offers incredible opportunities for learning and social interaction, it also exposes children and adolescents to significant risks. such as violence, pornography, cyberbullying, and misinformation. I firmly believe that initiatives aimed at educating children and teens, but educating parents as well, educating educators, actually, it’s very indispensable because it will help them become aware and responsible online users. This is an important path forward. It’s a responsibility that we as a larger community must share, ensuring their safety online.

Millenium Anthony: Thank you so much, Nirvana. I think from the discussion that we’ve just been having here, I’m getting it that online safety, like how, I mean, the ways that we can use to protect these children and youth, for them to be safe online is not a one-man work, right? It’s a stakeholder thing, right? Now, Nikki, please help us understand how do you think, what key indicators can the stakeholders prioritize when designing online safety programs to address emerging risks? For example, Nirvana has said different risks that children and youth face online. And yeah, like what key indicators should be considered by these stakeholders?

Nikki Colasso: Yes. Okay. So I think first is a question of, are there technical limitations? You asked, like, do bans work? Like if we were just to ban whatever set of technology, whether it’s social media or gaming, does that help children? And I think there are lots of different opinions on that. In Australia right now, we’re seeing that there is a social media ban for under 16s. and there’s a lot of discourse about what that means and whether that’s the right course for children. I think one question is, do technical implementations actually work? So do we actually have the ability to ban children? And very often, I think what we find is no. And for that reason, we’re seeing nine-year-olds on social media when the minimum age for a lot of these sites is 13. And so I think there is a valid argument that outright bans don’t work. And in terms of indicators, I think that what you were saying before, Keith, about safety by design in terms of working with multi-stakeholders to bake safety in at the product conception phase so that we’re not retrofitting to keep kids safe, but actually designing things with them in mind is the right path forward. And I think that much of what we build, instead of being super prescriptive, which says children can or can’t do this, or 14-year-olds can and can’t see this, or girls should or should not see that, I think it’s so dependent on the child and it’s so dependent on where they live, what access they have to technology, that it’s much better instead of being prescriptive to be principle-based and say that the policies that we write should be created in the best interest of the child and that there is a responsibility. I think the best practices would say, let’s be principle-based rather than super prescriptive because I don’t think that that works as technology changes and as innovation occurs.

Millenium Anthony: Can you hear me? Okay, I can hear myself. Okay, so I think I really liked that point. in the view, I’m keeping you have mentioned about, you know, there’s this, they call the design thinking approach that you bring the stakeholders on the tables and then you use them to understand the needs that they have, but also to innovate creative ways of solving problems. So I think that could be really a nice approach to have the kids in this space, understand their needs and the challenges that they face rather than just sitting and coming with solutions that we think maybe we just need to ban the internet from them while we, maybe there could be another way or another solution that we could use. So now I want to turn back, we have talked about, we just had this discussion here about the importance of collaboration and stuff. So what do you think are the biggest challenges in ensuring online safety for youth from your experiences in your specific regions or countries? What do you think are the biggest challenges in ensuring online safety for children and youth? Anyone, if you’re ready, you can just raise your hand and then we’ll pass the mic. Okay. Ah, we have a mic over there. So I think I saw three hands. Oh yeah, you can start. Hmm. No, please turn it on.

AUDIENCE: Is this one working? Yeah.

Millenium Anthony: Pass the mic. Hello. Hello. Am I audible now? Yes. Now we can hear. Okay. Thank you. Yeah, OK, yeah.

AUDIENCE: Sorry, I came late. But this subject is like, I work in a rural. I came from India. I work in rural communities. And we have a lot of first time internet users. And especially the targets are the youths who are not aware of how to use the internet, first of all. So when they get internet, they are so much attracted to everything that is there. So they don’t understand what’s there. And we had an incident with a girl who got abused online. And she didn’t know what to do about it. And she couldn’t tell her family, nor to any friends, but some very close person who she thought could help. And when they approached the cybercrime, they said, you need to bring proof. So the girl, she still doesn’t know what to do with the content that is available when she fell for the other person who faked her, to be her friend or something. So this is still a challenge. We still don’t know in India, especially in rural sectors, how to address these problems. And when we asked about, how safe have you kept your accounts? And when we checked with just not the girls in the community, not just the youths, but the boys also, they said, we don’t care. So somebody could actually hack your account and use your name to target somebody. So these things, these standards, like how do you talk about it? Like awareness, how do you talk about these problems? Like why? why not the girl didn’t go to her family and tell first like I have I’ve been subjected to some this this problem like how do we address so these are many challenges in India like in especially in rural areas like where still nobody wants to talk about it it’s only to the peers like okay I told my friend that’s all it’s done so even the boys needs to understand like how how to like keep their accounts safe and and teach talk about it to your friends and families it’s okay like to tell is this is happening so this is one of the incidents in and still we don’t have like proper support proper standards proper awareness system how do we do so we still don’t have a model for this.

Millenium Anthony: Wow thank you so much for your contribution I think there’s really a big work that we have to do especially in investing in training these young people like building capacities when it comes to online safety how do you use um the internet safely how do you put your social media how do you put yourself out there so that you don’t attract um maybe people that abuse people online like bad comments and all that I think it’s really something that we must invest to train our youth and children and I yes please after her I’ll take one more contribution and then we’ll see if we have a contribution from online.

AUDIENCE: Thank you I’m also from India so I’ll continue speaking um from where she left so basically um to answer the point that you know we need to sensitize more boys as well because there is a fun element that is attached to sharing any content that is uh online sharing resharing um of the content um also there is a huge generational digital divide so like uh we talk about parents we talk about educators we also talk about children educating them because with diversity uh there is the challenge of parents still catching up with technology, while children have fast-paced. That is the reason that we are unable to bridge that gap, and that can only happen once we do a lot of awareness programs. So we do one awareness program about use of gadgets, but then what happens technology advances, we need to go back and talk about something new that has come up. So it’s a vicious circle that needs to be adopted, but yes, the lack of support is of course there, which puts things on a standstill as well, or low-paced, I would say. Other point is of the shared devices. Like children probably are having their own devices, but in many parts of India, children don’t have their own devices, so they share devices of their parents. So when they start exploring devices on their parents, they also come across content which is not appropriate for them. That is one of the challenges that we face, and also in low-income groups especially, or in marginalized communities, one phone in a family is a big deal, right? And then having internet on their phones, because probably parents are watching some content which is appropriate for them, but not for the kids, but then through advertisements, through other channels, they come across content which questions them in their mind, but they’re unable to ask because of the sensitivity that we have in the cultures. To the point, I’m sorry, we’re taking too long, but yeah, to the point on having multi-stakeholder interactions, I think it is more about knowledge and experience. The ones who have expertise has knowledge, but the ones to the point you made involving children is because of the experience. So we need to have a knowledge and experience both in the same room to talk about the fact that how the policies needs to be shaped and adopted. Thank you.

Millenium Anthony: Thank you very much. I’ll take one more from here, and then I’ll move online and get back to my panelists, and then we can get back to the floor again.

AUDIENCE: I can talk?

Millenium Anthony: Yeah. I’ll come back to you.

AUDIENCE: Yeah, thank you. My name is Joshua from Uganda, from the Internet Society chapter Uganda. And I’m also a developer as in building systems. And that’s actually my point. I think one of the stakeholders we often forget is the person who actually builds the system. Lucky for today at least we have somebody from Roblox. My kids are fans. I don’t build that system though. Yeah, I know. You don’t want me building that system. Yeah, that’s a good point too. Well, guys who build the systems often get forgotten in these discussions. And the time you’re building such a system, you’re just looking at the target. I need to get this software out by this and this day. So most of the times we are saying, hey, the system should do this, should have this two-factor authentication and all these other things. But if I’m working on a deadline, trust me, I’m going to leave all that stuff out. And I think one solution to help is to involve the open source community in these discussions. Because that is one of the ways you can shorten that development time such that all these measures we are talking about, these things that should be by default, are somewhere as a repository that any developer can just pick up and use. And now we have applications across the board that are safe for all our users. So those are the guys I think we need to involve in this IGF, the open source communities.

Millenium Anthony: Thank you. Wow, thank you so much, Joshua. Back to my panelists now, coming to you, Keith. We have the global standards of online safety, the global regulations that are set. But then considering that we have different legal and culture frameworks in our specific regions and countries. countries, how can we balance now between the global standards of online safety and considering our own culture, our own legal frameworks in our specific countries? Is there like a way that we can balance this?

Keith Andere: That’s, okay, I felt like I’ve shouted at myself, huh? But that’s a very interesting question in the sense that even when we have global standards, I think for children’s safety, we might not have a universally accepted global standard. Why do I say this? Kids from my village in Kakamega, somewhere deep in the interstites of Kenya, are not as privileged as maybe kids from India. I use India in the sense that the parents are already technologically aware. And I use the word aware very deliberately because not to say that all parents in India, for example, have access to the technology. But the parents of India, for example, are more aware that this is the context through which they can adopt in technology. And we’ve seen India as a success story on how they deploy technology in all spheres of their life. And this is true also if you want to look at the global North versus the global South. And Africa is also very unique, if I was going to speak about Africa, for example, is very unique because there are other things like you’ve mentioned, legal frameworks that we do have. So you find different African countries struggling with even basic frameworks such as data protection, computer, or cybercrime, cybersecurity kind of laws. So I think we cannot adopt a very universally accepted kind of policy, but I can share a few pointers that perhaps. can guide and arrive to the same response that you’re looking for. Maybe one is, are we able to develop region specific policies? So that if we are looking at Africa, for example, then we are looking at Africa as a region and the context of Africa. And even when we do that from an Africa Union point of view, then we can scale it down. You know, that just becomes a global framework through which some cross-border kind of crimes and issues can be addressed in the context of that framework. But we really need again to break it down. So West Africa and East Africa and Southern Africa, because the needs and the cultures of West Africans and Southern Africans are different. Perhaps we also need to look at cross-border collaboration. How do we go outside of legal framework, for example, that Kenya has and look at other country and pick and harmonize this framework so that whatever is illegal in Kenya is also illegal in India, for example. So that if somebody is trying to perpetuate some crime from India, then it’s not very different from Kenya. Then we can use those kind of harmonized framework to support this cross-border collaboration and enforcement as well. Again, the issue of legal frameworks. How do we build capacity to strengthen these legal frameworks, you know, and ensure that we have a comprehensive cyber security, data protection laws that also consider local contexts? You know, if you look at META, I think one of the key things that they grapple with is local and cultural contexts of issues. What is head speech in Kenya is not head speech in. in another country. And so even the people who are now doing content moderation, when you flag something as hate speech, they might not see it as hate speech because the context is different. I think we also need to perhaps education, digital education and digital literacy. Because then what that means is that we are going to promote accessible digital education in schools. But not just for kids. How do we look at parents as well, as people who we can target for digital literacy? Because then through that awareness issues are addressed. I think resource disparities is also a big issue. There are some countries that are rich. There’s some countries that are not rich. You find different countries grappling and struggling with catastrophes such as flooding, drought, climate issues. So how then do you ask them to put X amount of money in digital literacy when they’re just trying to keep these people safe, or at least out of the calamities that they already are having? So I think one of the ways also is look at addressing the resource issues to the extent that we can support countries with limited financing and also technical resources. Because you’ve come to Kenya, everybody’s almost a geek. But then you find a country like maybe Madagascar or Mozambique, the resource that they have, cybersecurity professionals are such a small number. If you look at different reports, they say Africa has a shortage of cybersecurity professionals to the extent that they are needed up to 20,000 professionals a year. Now what does that mean if you’re now contextualizing? that in terms of resource that can, you know, develop and support this kind of issues to ensure that, you know, we are building a standard that is also localized. So these expertise are things that we should export. You know, Joshua here with all his technical expertise, that expertise that he has can be exported to Sao Tome, for example, or Cape Verde, and support the people of Cape Verde. Because if it’s just in Uganda or in Tanzania, I don’t know, how then do we take advantage of such expertise? I’ll stop at that. Thank you.

Millenium Anthony: Wow. Thank you so much. Daba, do we have any contributions from online? We have a question? Okay. So I’ll get to Nirvana and then we can move back to the question. Now to you Nirvana. What strategy, you have worked with kids, right? You have worked with on different projects on how to protect children and youth online. But so can you share with us if there are any strategies that you find effective in promoting active participation of children and parents in securing a safe digital environment?

Nirvana Lima: So over the past years, I’ve been conducting research and working on issues related to internet governance with young people, but age 80 to 25, who are the target audience of Youth Brazil program. But I had the opportunity to teach workshops on responsible internet use to young people aged 16 to 18. However, I must admit that unfortunately I haven’t. yet worked directly with children. Though, I believe in the importance of doing so as soon as possible. This is not just because of my responsibility as a researcher and a popular educator, but also for the civil society and government organizations. Children and teenagers are facing serious challenges. And as adults, us, we need to study, we need to address them. Since 2018, the World Health Organization has officially recognized digital addiction as a disorder, sounding the alarm for parents and educators about the excessive time children spend in front of screens. It’s more than clear that we need to develop and implement effective methodologies focused on media literacy for children, for adolescents, parents, and educators. In Brazil, along with other countries in the South Global, we must begin integrating media education into school curriculum. I think this is a great start. From primary to high school, being connected to internet is a reality. All of us know. But as for this and forward generations, we must ensure that they are equipped to use internet in ways that serve their best interest. So we all are responsible for them.

Millenium Anthony: All right. Thank you so much, Nympharna. I now welcome questions from the floor. If you have any questions to any of our panelists, yes, I’ll take you and… he was the first and then you and then we’ll do one from online so one two three four five five one minute each what it’s a contribution okay so please allow me to take the contribution from online first

AUDIENCE: it’s good you guys congratulations from the discussion and as you are talking i guess you have a main challenge in brazil because you’re a huge country so i guess one of the main challenges is the difference between the law enforcement between the different regions in brazil like i’m the north and the law digital enforcement for child for child and for i mean everything it’s very different from the enforcement for the south and i guess we as a federative state we don’t think in laos considering this difference you know as i said our law is federal but with this um state laws uh focusing on each difference between our regions amazon and south and i guess this is a huge problem for brazil and it must be on the discussion in every government and it’s missing but my question is for any of you any of you guys can respond me it’s what is the main challenge for the stakeholders when you are designing not to a tool for children, considering different legal frameworks around the world. There are some convergence, some main convergence, between the different law enforcements between the countries. Do you think there is something that is common between India, Brazil, United States? There is something that is common in the law? Or do you think we don’t have this? We don’t have a point in common between all the laws focused for children and youth? Is this a question?

Millenium Anthony: Yeah. Any of my panelists who is ready to respond on that in one minute, if you can take a second. Oh, we don’t have a mic.

Nikki Colasso: So I’m not a lawyer. So I thought Mike was going to run. I’m not a lawyer, so I can’t speak to commonalities in the actual law. But I think often what companies try to do is synthesize much of what is illegal in many places into what is often called their community standards or community guidelines. And that’s kind of the governing document for a service. And in that document, you’ll usually find you can’t perpetrate illegal acts. It’s kind of broadly defined to cover different geographies. You can’t use hate speech. You can’t commit fraud. These kinds of things, which tend to be common across geographies. What I think is much harder, which Keith touched on, is the speech issue. So what may be illegal to say, in France, by law, you cannot deny that the Holocaust happened. In the US, in theory, you can. We would all agree it’s hateful, but you actually can do. that. And I think it’s much harder to moderate around the speech issues, which doesn’t mean that the legal stuff isn’t difficult, but I think the moderation piece is very, very difficult. I think a lot of times the governing documents, like the community standards, community guidelines, try to find those places in common in the law.

Millenium Anthony: Thank you so much, Nikki.

Keith Andere: Just managing this tech thing. Okay. In addition to what the colleague here says, I think it’s also important to note or to remember that we cannot regulate online what we are unable to regulate offline. So what applies offline is basically what will apply online. So if, for example, we have quote unquote freedom of speech here, to the extent that we can say, generally to many things which can pass, how then do I curtail you from typing this? If I can speak to you and say certain words, then it becomes difficult just because it’s written to say that we can curtail or we can put a standard to it. So in my submission, I think it then starts to applying these from offline so that then it’s applicable online. Otherwise, if we look at it from just an online lens, it will be difficult to enforce because that is not what happens offline.

Millenium Anthony: Perfect. Thank you. Please, can we take our contribution from online and then come back on site? Yeah, thank you. Can you use less than a minute if you can? Yeah, yeah. Thank you very much.

Ponsleit Szilagyi: Thank you very much. Ponsleit Szilagyi speaking from the Gambia NRI. One of the main things I want to contribute in this session is having countries implementing an Online Safety Act as the United Kingdom has done in 2023. And that Online Safety Act also protects not only children, but adults. When you have an Online Safety Act, most of all these problems we have in navigating online safety for children and young people happens in most social media companies. And now the social media companies are now more held responsible. And yes, it might be difficult. It might take time because everybody’s doing different things in putting an act, but I believe that advocating for an Online Safety Act within the context of each countries is the way to go about it. In most of the global South, what happens where most of the children don’t really have internet access is in their schools, whether it’s in public schools or private schools. And you can also introduce forms of educational online safety, but it starts with an act. And if you look at the UK example in the uk.gov.uk, you discover that it’s very strong in protecting children. And I think that’s the way we should go forward. Thank you.

Millenium Anthony: Wow, thank you so much for the contribution. Please allow me to take the second question back there. I’m sorry, the second and then the third. Please let’s try to use less than a minute to summarize our questions. What?

AUDIENCE: Hi, can you hear me? Yes. My name is William. I’m from South Africa, and we do a lot of work with children. And in fact, what we’ve been doing, coordinated by UNICEF is a group of all entities that work on online safety to try and come together and try and build common approaches. And we’ve just last week, in fact, presented South African online guidelines for dealing with online safety. There’s an absence from that group and it’s Roblox. And Roblox internationally has come under fire quite a lot because children find it very easy to get around the measures that you’ve got in place currently to protect them. And so that comes to a point of political will. And of course, the other big one around age verification, which as I understand it is what the Australian government is saying, until and unless you can demonstrate comprehensive age verification systems, we’re gonna say no under 16. So I’d love to get your feedback on that. Thanks very much. Fascinating panel.

Millenium Anthony: You wanna respond to that Miki?

Nikki Colasso: Sure. So, I mean, I guess, do you want me to respond to your question about Roblox or in terms of Australia? Yeah, so let me start by saying that like, we are not perfect. Like Roblox is not perfect. And I don’t think any tech company is. But I do believe that we are very safety first in terms of trying to get the right outcomes and putting children at the center of what we do. And not just because it’s the right thing to do, although it’s the right thing to do. It doesn’t even make sense from a technological or business perspective to not protect children. Like our service would cease to exist if we didn’t do that. With that said, I think that there is a lot of fair or just fair, I don’t know if it’s criticism or sensitivity about the role of. of tech companies in society and what they need to come to the table to do. And I think that’s probably been building up for quite a long time. But, and I also think that, you know, companies very often will be covered in the press. But the reality is, is that, you know, we develop, we’ve actually just announced a whole set of parental tools so that children can’t talk one-on-one outside of games, right, to prevent grooming. And that’s a default, like what I talked about before. And I think we’re constantly trying to update that, but we’re also a company of 2000 people. So if you compare us to like a huge social media company, we still need to grow in scale. So I think the answer is we are not perfect, but I do think that we are consistently focused on the right outcomes. I think the question about age verification is an important one. I do think if there was a technology that could perfectly verify age, it would make sense for countries and companies to use that to the extent that they could. The problem is that those technologies are often very circumventable. So they are easily gotten around, particularly for children who are very tech savvy, or they might work very well, but they’re gonna collect a ton of biometric data about the child or the person in question. Then it’s a little bit of a, how do you rate that? Is it more important to keep them off a service and prevent access totally, but collect a lot of their private biometric information in the process? And I think that is the central question that policymakers and tech companies are struggling with. My hope is that over time, these tech solutions get better, and, but I don’t think we have a great answer to that right now. I think age verification continues to be the question that really troubles people across tech and policy circles and in the public sector.

Millenium Anthony: Well, thank you so much, Nikki. Please, let’s get.

AUDIENCE: Right, hello, can you hear me? Yes. Okay, hi, my name is Leander, I’m the executive director of the Five Rights Foundation, and we are a global NGO working on children’s rights in the digital environment with the mission to build the digital world that children and young people deserve. And we represent and work with and for children from around the world. And I have a couple of points to make. First of all, building on what people have said in the room, I think it really has to be extremely clear that this is a global problem, and that the issues cited in India could just as well be in Uganda or in the US and they certainly are. And the reason that children are having very, very similar experiences online around the world and facing the same risks and the same harms is because they are misusing exactly the same products. This gets us to the point, is there a global solution and do we need global standards? The answer is very, very clearly, yes. There are, you know, companies which are representing 25% of global GDP, who have a massive power differential between those companies and the children that we are talking about. And indeed, Nikki, I actually agree with so much of what you have said about the fact that this is not for parents to deal with, this is not about digital literacy, this is not about children, educating children to navigate an environment which is controlled by a number of companies. And it really, yes, is about safety by design, and it is about corporate responsibility. And this is exactly where we can have global standards. And to Joshua’s point, you know, this is where designing with certain basic principles and standards in mind is very, very possible. And we shouldn’t overcomplicate things. Indeed, the same applies online, as offline, as was said before. And they are products, and we do have product safety regimes, we do have privacy regimes, and these things should apply online. And so, you know, much of that is already there. There is the Convention on the Rights of the Child, there is the General Comment 25, which sets out exactly how children’s rights apply in the digital environment. We now have the Global Digital Compact. regulations, so our colleague online mentioned the Online Safety Act, there’s also the age-appropriate design code which exists in many countries and which Roblox has endorsed and was one of the first endorsers of this code and they set out indeed not prescriptive and tech neutral systems for companies to follow. So that is there, we must apply it, the big problem that remains is that I think you know colleagues who work on policy and who say the right things are very distinct from business interests and the people at the top who are making the business decisions and maybe not feeding back to the designers who are getting very specific metrics that they need to implement which are not focused around child rights and safety. Thank you.

Millenium Anthony: Thank you, Sabah please can you read for us the question online? We have less than one minute so if you have any question from the audience you can ask in the end.

Saba Tiku Beyene: So Omar Shuran is asking what do you think are the most important steps we can take to ensure that kids feel safe and supported when exploring the digital world and what are the measures?

Millenium Anthony: Anyone who can summarize in less than a minute?

Keith Andere: For us to make kids feel safe online there must be an element of trust and trust here comes from a point of confidence. Feeling is is not something that you can point at so I see that if they are confident then the aspect of feeling safe comes in and confident is not just in using. If I give my phone to a three-year-old today even though they might not have used an iPhone within no time you’ll find that they’ve figured out what is a you know App Store and they’ve gone and downloaded a game taught themselves to play a game, and they’ll return to me telling me, I can’t go past this level. And I’m like, okay, so what even is this? And that comes with literacy. Literacy not just in using, literacy in security, literacy in knowing that this is a potential threat. I think I’ve seen kids playing a lot of online games, and sometimes the people on the other side, for them, they just see as a game player or a mate. But this person you find is an adult trying to push these kids towards certain direction. Come and do this, or if you don’t do this, I’ll give you this. So how do we make them feel safe if they are not aware from a point of literacy is something that might not be achieved if we don’t look at literacy and security literacy, cybersecurity, cyber hygiene, do the do’s and don’ts, how to navigate threats. For me, it’s very easy when I see somebody trying to spam me what to do, but will my 12-year-old daughter probably do the same? Maybe not, unless, of course, I’ve shown and told them that, look, watch out for this, and when this happens, this is what you do. That’s what I think.

Millenium Anthony: Wow, thank you so much, Keith. Thank you so much to my panelists. Thank you for your contributions. Thank you to the audience. Thank you for being very interactive. We’re out of time, so thank you very much. Please connect to our panelists. They’re going to be here. So if you had a question, you can connect with them after. Thank you.

Agreement Points

Need for stakeholder collaboration in ensuring online safety

Keith Andere

Nikki Colasso

AUDIENCE

Promoting cross-border collaboration and harmonized legal frameworks

Balancing corporate responsibility with user empowerment

Involving open source communities in developing safety features

Speakers agree on the importance of collaboration between different stakeholders, including governments, tech companies, and open source communities, to effectively address online safety issues.

Importance of digital literacy and education

Keith Andere

Nirvana Lima

AUDIENCE

Focusing on building children’s confidence and digital literacy

Integrating media education into school curricula

Lack of awareness and digital literacy among children and parents

Speakers emphasize the need for digital literacy and education programs to empower children, parents, and educators in navigating online spaces safely.

Similar Viewpoints

Both speakers highlight the importance of considering cultural differences when developing online safety policies and content moderation practices.

Keith Andere

Nikki Colasso

Need for region-specific policies due to cultural differences

Addressing differences in content moderation across cultures

Both speakers advocate for proactive approaches to online safety, emphasizing the need for built-in safety features and global standards to protect children’s rights.

Nikki Colasso

Unknown speaker

Implementing safety by design principles in product development

Developing global standards based on children’s rights

Unexpected Consensus

Limitations of parental controls and user empowerment

Nikki Colasso

Unknown speaker

Balancing corporate responsibility with user empowerment

Developing global standards based on children’s rights

Despite representing different perspectives (tech industry and children’s rights advocacy), both speakers agree that relying solely on parental controls and user empowerment is insufficient, emphasizing the need for corporate responsibility and global standards.

Overall Assessment

Summary

The main areas of agreement include the need for stakeholder collaboration, the importance of digital literacy and education, consideration of cultural differences in policy-making, and the implementation of proactive safety measures.

Consensus level

There is a moderate level of consensus among the speakers on the key challenges and potential solutions for ensuring online safety for children and youth. This consensus suggests a growing recognition of the complexity of the issue and the need for multi-faceted approaches involving various stakeholders. However, there are still differences in emphasis and specific strategies proposed by different speakers, indicating that further dialogue and collaboration may be necessary to develop comprehensive and effective solutions.

Different Viewpoints

Approach to online safety regulations

Keith Andere

Nikki Colasso

Ponsleit

Need for region-specific policies due to cultural differences

Developing principle-based rather than prescriptive policies

Implementing Online Safety Acts at the national level

Keith argues for region-specific policies, Nikki advocates for principle-based policies, while Ponsleit suggests implementing national Online Safety Acts.

Focus of online safety efforts

Nirvana Lima

Keith Andere

Integrating media education into school curricula

Focusing on building children’s confidence and digital literacy

Nirvana emphasizes integrating media education into school curricula, while Keith focuses on building children’s confidence and digital literacy.

Unexpected Differences

Role of parents in ensuring online safety

AUDIENCE

Nikki Colasso

Lack of awareness and digital literacy among children and parents

Balancing corporate responsibility with user empowerment

While the audience member emphasizes parental awareness, Nikki unexpectedly argues that relying solely on parental controls is unrealistic, shifting more responsibility to tech companies.

Overall Assessment

summary

The main areas of disagreement revolve around the approach to online safety regulations, the focus of online safety efforts, and the role of different stakeholders in ensuring online safety.

difference_level

The level of disagreement is moderate. While there are differing views on specific approaches, there is a general consensus on the importance of online safety for children and youth. These differences highlight the complexity of the issue and the need for a multi-faceted approach involving various stakeholders.

Partial Agreements

Both agree on the need for tailored approaches to online safety, but Nikki focuses on product development while Keith emphasizes regional policy differences.

Nikki Colasso

Keith Andere

Implementing safety by design principles in product development

Need for region-specific policies due to cultural differences

Similar Viewpoints

Both speakers highlight the importance of considering cultural differences when developing online safety policies and content moderation practices.

Keith Andere

Nikki Colasso

Need for region-specific policies due to cultural differences

Addressing differences in content moderation across cultures

Both speakers advocate for proactive approaches to online safety, emphasizing the need for built-in safety features and global standards to protect children’s rights.

Nikki Colasso

Unknown speaker

Implementing safety by design principles in product development

Developing global standards based on children’s rights

Key Takeaways

Online safety for children and youth is a complex global issue requiring multi-stakeholder collaboration

There is a need for both technical solutions (safety by design) and education/awareness initiatives

Cultural contexts and legal frameworks vary, necessitating adaptable approaches

Corporate responsibility of tech companies is crucial, but user empowerment is also important

Age verification remains a significant challenge, balancing effectiveness with privacy concerns

Resolutions and Action Items

Integrate media education and digital literacy into school curricula

Develop and implement national Online Safety Acts

Improve collaboration between tech companies, policymakers, and child rights organizations

Focus on designing products with safety principles from the start

Unresolved Issues

How to effectively implement age verification without compromising privacy

Balancing global standards with local cultural and legal contexts

Addressing resource disparities between countries in implementing online safety measures

How to make online safety education accessible in rural and low-income areas

Suggested Compromises

Adopting principle-based policies rather than prescriptive ones to allow for cultural adaptations

Balancing parental controls with default safety settings on platforms

Finding a middle ground between outright bans and unrestricted access for children

I think that where we are now is really looking at defaults and looking at what are the initial settings on these platforms, including Roblox, and acknowledging that we need to provide that safety net in addition to the parental controls.

speaker

Nikki Colasso

reason

This comment shifts the focus from relying solely on parental controls to emphasizing the responsibility of tech companies in providing safe default settings.

impact

It led to further discussion about the role of tech companies in ensuring online safety and the limitations of relying only on parental controls.

So, I see that we as stakeholders in whatever format that we are in, whether civil society, whether governments, whether youth, or all these people, we need to start thinking security by design. And one of the things is having the kids here, so that we are not speaking for them, but we are also listening what they are saying.

speaker

Keith Andere

reason

This comment introduces the important concept of ‘security by design’ and emphasizes the need to include children’s voices in discussions about online safety.

impact

It broadened the conversation to consider a more holistic approach to online safety, including the direct involvement of children in policy-making.

The truth is that kids and teens are not digital natives, despite what some may claim. This generation learns how to navigate online through trial and error, just like everyone else. They are vulnerable to exploitation, not only of their personal data, but also within the influenced economy, which includes advertising agencies and talent agents for child celebrities.

speaker

Nirvana Lima

reason

This comment challenges the common assumption that children are inherently tech-savvy and highlights their vulnerabilities in the digital space.

impact

It shifted the discussion towards recognizing the need for comprehensive digital education and protection for children, rather than assuming they can navigate online spaces safely on their own.

Well, guys who build the systems often get forgotten in these discussions. And the time you’re building such a system, you’re just looking at the target. I need to get this software out by this and this day. So most of the times we are saying, hey, the system should do this, should have this two-factor authentication and all these other things. But if I’m working on a deadline, trust me, I’m going to leave all that stuff out.

speaker

Joshua (audience member)

reason

This comment brings attention to an often overlooked stakeholder – the developers – and highlights the practical challenges in implementing safety features.

impact

It introduced a new perspective on the challenges of implementing online safety measures and led to discussion about involving open source communities in developing safety solutions.

I think age verification continues to be the question that really troubles people across tech and policy circles and in the public sector.

speaker

Nikki Colasso

reason

This comment highlights a critical challenge in implementing online safety measures for children – the difficulty of effective age verification.

impact

It sparked further discussion about the complexities of balancing privacy concerns with safety measures, and the limitations of current technological solutions.

Overall Assessment

These key comments shaped the discussion by broadening the scope of stakeholders involved in online safety (from parents to tech companies, policymakers, developers, and children themselves), highlighting the complexities and challenges in implementing effective safety measures, and emphasizing the need for a more holistic, collaborative approach to online safety. The discussion evolved from focusing on parental controls to considering systemic changes in how online platforms are designed and regulated, while also recognizing the importance of digital literacy and education.

How can we develop region-specific policies for online safety that consider local contexts?

speaker

Keith Andere

explanation

This is important to address the unique challenges and cultural differences in various regions, especially in Africa.

How can we address resource disparities between countries in implementing online safety measures?

speaker

Keith Andere

explanation

This is crucial to ensure that countries with limited financial and technical resources can still protect their children online.

How can we integrate media education into school curricula from primary to high school?

speaker

Nirvana Lima

explanation

This is important to equip children with the skills to use the internet safely from an early age.

What are the commonalities in laws focused on children and youth across different countries?

speaker

Audience member

explanation

Understanding these commonalities could help in developing more universal approaches to online safety.

How can we improve age verification technologies without compromising user privacy?

speaker

Nikki Colasso

explanation

This is important to effectively implement age restrictions while protecting users’ personal data.

How can we better align corporate policies with child rights and safety principles?

speaker

Leander (audience member)

explanation

This is crucial to ensure that business interests do not override child safety concerns in tech companies.

What are the most effective ways to build digital literacy and cybersecurity awareness among children?

speaker

Keith Andere

explanation

This is important to empower children to navigate online threats and use the internet safely.