Open Forum #60 Safe Digital Space for Children

Summary

This panel discussion focused on protecting children in digital spaces, addressing the challenges and potential solutions for ensuring online safety. The conversation brought together experts from various sectors, including technology companies, international organizations, and cybersecurity firms.

The discussion highlighted that children are digital natives, often more adept at navigating online spaces than adults. Panelists emphasized the need for evolving protection measures that consider children’s changing needs as they grow and as digital experiences evolve. Key challenges identified included cyberbullying, inappropriate content, privacy concerns, and addiction to social media and games.

Experts stressed the importance of a multi-stakeholder approach involving parents, educators, governments, and technology companies. They discussed the role of AI and human moderation in content filtering, the implementation of parental controls, and the need for age-appropriate default settings on platforms. The importance of empowering children to self-govern their safety was also highlighted, with suggestions for creating digital advocates in schools.

The panel addressed the need for updated laws and policies to keep pace with rapidly evolving technologies. They also discussed the importance of equipping law enforcement and social services with the necessary resources and expertise to address online threats to children. The role of education in fostering digital literacy and challenging harmful social norms was emphasized.

Panelists agreed that while progress has been made, protecting children online remains an ongoing challenge that requires continuous adaptation and collaboration across sectors. The discussion concluded with a call for a holistic approach that balances children’s rights to privacy and protection while empowering them to navigate the digital world safely.

Keypoints

Major discussion points:

– The need for a holistic approach to protecting children online, involving governments, tech companies, parents, educators, and children themselves

– The importance of designing digital products and services with child safety in mind from the start

– The challenges of keeping laws and policies up to date with rapidly evolving technology

– The role of education in empowering children to navigate online spaces safely

– The balance between protecting children and respecting their privacy/autonomy online

Overall purpose:

The goal of this discussion was to explore various approaches and perspectives on protecting children’s safety and wellbeing in online environments, with input from policymakers, tech companies, international organizations, and youth.

Tone:

The tone was largely collaborative and solution-oriented, with panelists acknowledging the complexity of the issue and the need for multi-stakeholder cooperation. There was a sense of urgency but also optimism about finding ways to better protect children online. The tone became more interactive towards the end with audience questions, bringing in additional perspectives.

Speakers

– Ahmad Bhinder: Policy Innovation Director at the Digital Cooperation Organization

– Philippe Nahhas: Partner at a technology policy firm, Moderator

– Haitham Al Jowhari: Partner of Cybersecurity at PwC

– Mo Isap: Founder and CEO of iN4 Group

– Shivnath Thukral: Director and Head of Public Policy of Meta in India

– Afrooz Johnson: Global Lead for preventing and responding to online child abuse and exploitation at UNICEF

Additional speakers:

– Jutta Croll: German Digital Opportunities Foundation, Children’s rights advocate

– Unnamed high school student from Massachusetts

Protecting Children in Digital Spaces: A Comprehensive Approach

This panel discussion brought together experts from various sectors to address the critical issue of protecting children in digital spaces. The conversation highlighted the complexities of ensuring online safety for young users and explored potential solutions involving multiple stakeholders.

Key Challenges and Context

Ahmad Bhinder, Policy Innovation Director at the Digital Cooperation Organization (DCO), an intergovernmental organization focused on digital economy advancement, emphasized that today’s youth are “digital natives” who face numerous risks in the digital world. These risks include cyberbullying, addiction, inappropriate content, and privacy concerns. Shivnath Thukral, Director and Head of Public Policy of Meta in India, noted that bad actors are present in both real and virtual worlds, underscoring the need for vigilance.

Afrooz Johnson, Global Lead for preventing and responding to online child abuse and exploitation at UNICEF, highlighted that laws have not kept pace with rapidly evolving digital technologies. This lag in legislation creates gaps in protection and enforcement. Johnson also pointed out that social services and law enforcement often lack the resources and expertise to address online challenges effectively.

Multi-stakeholder Approach

There was a strong consensus among the speakers on the need for a holistic, multi-stakeholder approach to protecting children online. This approach involves governments, tech companies, parents, educators, and children themselves.

Ahmad Bhinder advocated for the development of national children’s online protection strategies and mentioned the Digital Space Accelerators program as an initiative to support this goal. Haitham Al Jowhari, Partner of Cybersecurity at PwC, stressed that the private sector should invest in research and development, work closely with law enforcement and regulators, and collaborate with academia to develop innovative solutions.

Empowerment, Education, and Involvement

A recurring theme in the discussion was the importance of empowering and educating children about online safety, as well as involving them in the design of safety measures. Mo Isap, Founder and CEO of iN4 Group, suggested creating safe spaces for children to be empowered and experiment online. He also proposed identifying digital advocates among students to support their peers.

Ahmad Bhinder shared insights from his daughter’s perspective on online safety, highlighting the importance of considering children’s views when developing protective measures. The panel agreed that involving children in the design of safety features and policies is crucial for creating effective and relevant solutions.

Balancing Protection and Privacy

Shivnath Thukral highlighted Meta’s approach of implementing a framework of preventing, controlling, and responding to online threats. He emphasized the importance of implementing safety features by default on social media platforms while also respecting children’s privacy. Thukral also mentioned Meta’s collaboration with NECMEC on sharing CSAM (Child Sexual Abuse Material) data to combat online exploitation.

An interesting point of consensus emerged between Thukral and an audience member regarding the need to balance child protection measures with respecting children’s privacy rights. This highlights the complexity of implementing safety measures without infringing on children’s rights and autonomy.

Evolving Education and Technology

An audience member, a high school student from Massachusetts, raised the important point that digital safety education needs to continuously evolve to keep pace with rapidly changing technologies. This observation underscores the ongoing challenge of ensuring that protective measures and educational approaches remain relevant and effective in a fast-changing digital landscape.

Socio-economic Considerations

Mo Isap emphasized the importance of considering socio-economic contexts when developing online safety policies. This nuanced approach recognizes that children from different backgrounds may face varying levels of vulnerability to online risks and may require tailored support and protection measures.

Unresolved Issues and Future Directions

Despite the productive discussion, several issues remained unresolved. These include finding effective ways to balance children’s right to protection with their right to privacy online, addressing online safety challenges for children from different socio-economic backgrounds, and combating the problem of children becoming online attackers themselves despite safety education.

The panel suggested several action items, including:

1. Implementing safety features by default in products used by children

2. Updating laws to adequately criminalize online violence against children

3. Requiring child rights impact assessments for tech companies

4. Developing national children’s online protection strategies

5. Strengthening social services to support at-risk children

Conclusion

The discussion highlighted that protecting children online remains an ongoing challenge that requires continuous adaptation and collaboration across sectors. While progress has been made, the rapidly evolving nature of digital technologies necessitates a flexible and proactive approach. By involving children in the design of safety measures, empowering them to navigate online spaces safely, and fostering cooperation between various stakeholders, we can work towards creating a safer digital environment for young users.

As Philippe Nahhas, the moderator, aptly summarized, “We overprotect children in the world, and we underprotect them in the virtual world.” This paradox serves as a call to action for all stakeholders to redouble their efforts in ensuring children’s safety in digital spaces while respecting their rights and autonomy.

Ahmad Bhinder: system. Can you hear me through your headphones well? Perfect. Sorry, we’ll start in a minute. We’re just sorting out some technicalities. It’s channel 3. It’s channel 3 to hear the audio for the speakers. All right. So the tech is all sorted, hopefully. My name is Ahmed Binder. I am a policy innovation director at the Digital Cooperation Organization. And we are gathered here to discuss the very critical topic of protecting children online or in the digital spaces. I see some problems with people not being able to hear me. My audio is on channel 3. May I confirm if people can hear me? OK, excellent. So we are here to discuss a very, very critical topic that is very relevant to the digital economy and the evolving digital landscape. And for us, today we have a very senior, diverse, and expert panel of speakers. Unfortunately, our moderator is on his way. He’s stuck somewhere, but I will try to fill in for him. His name is Philip Nahas, and he’s a partner at a technology policy firm. So we have with us today Mr. Haitham Aljohri. He is a partner of cybersecurity at PwC. May I ask Mr. Aljohri to introduce himself, and then we move on with the other panelists? Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen.

Haitham Aljabry: I’m Haitham Aljohri. I’m a partner in PwC Middle East based out of Dubai. I do cybersecurity for a living. I’ve been with the firm for 20 years. I help government entities. My focus on government entities, critical national infrastructure, working on their cyber agenda. And we’re glad to be here. Thank you.

Ahmad Bhinder: Thank you, Mr. Aljohri. Now we have, next we have with us Mr. Mohamed Issaab. And he’s a founder and CEO of iN4 Group that is headquartered in the media city in Salford.

Mohamed Isap: So Mohamed, if you could please introduce yourself. Hi. Good afternoon, everyone. Can you hear me? Sorry. That’s better. Good afternoon. I’m Mohamed Issaab. I’m the CEO for iN4 Group. We’re one of the leading advanced tech training providers in the UK, working extensively across data, cyber, cloud, and software. As part of our business group, we also deliver the government’s Cyber First Program, developed by TCHQ, into schools and colleges. And I’m also a founder of Star Academies,

Ahmad Bhinder: where we have 35 schools and 25,000 young people in education across the United Kingdom as well. Thank you, Mohamed. Next we have with us is Mr. Shivanath Tukral. And he’s director and head of public policy of Meta in India. Mr. Shivanath, could you please introduce yourself? My name is Shivanath. I lead public in India. Can you hear me? Hi. Yeah, better.

Shivnath Thukral: Yeah, my name is Shivanath. I head public policy in India. I’ve been in Meta for seven years in India. I was before that. And my responsibility would be interaction with all government regulatory agencies and make sure that it continues to take the right measures in a country like India, which tends to be one of the largest user base for Meta across the world, across Facebook, Instagram, and WhatsApp. Thank you, Mr. Shivanath. And we have an online speaker with us all the way from the US.

Ahmad Bhinder: Her name is Afrooz Johnson, and working in the UNICEF. So Afrooz, can you hear us? And could you please introduce yourself?

Afrooz Johnson: Yes, I can hear you loud and clear. Good morning from a very cold New York City. I’m sorry I’m not there, but glad to be joining online. So I’m Afrooz Kavyani Johnson. I work at UNICEF, which I’m sure most of you are aware is the United Nations Specialized Agency for Children. I’m a global lead in our work to prevent and respond to online child abuse and exploitation. UNICEF works in over 190 countries and territories. And I support our teams around the world on tackling this issue. So this includes research, work on legislative and policy reform, training for frontline law enforcement, and social services, educative efforts with children and their families, and various collaborations and engagement with industry. Thank you.

Ahmad Bhinder: Thank you, Afrooz, so much. And OK, so let me start by saying a few words. I will not take much of your time. And then we would really go ahead and listen from all the experts panelists from here. So as I said, my name is Ahmed Binder. I am a policy innovation director at the Digital Cooperation Organization. You can see on your screens, we are an intergovernmental organization that covers the digital economy. And we instill cooperation amongst our 16 member states that span from the Middle East, Africa, subcontinent, to Europe. And we do a lot of initiatives around, for example, around the sustainable growth of digital economy, governance in the digital space, AI, digital rights, et cetera. We have a growing list of observers. And the observers are from the academia, from civil society, from private companies as well. So as you could see on the screen, we are 40 plus, and we are rapidly growing. We play four roles for, as I said, we are an intergovernmental organization. So we are represented by the ministers of digital economy and ICT of our member states. And we play four roles for our member states. We advise them on the best practice policies. We facilitate the cooperation on digital economy. We advocate for the best practice policies, and we provide information. So we have published a few indices to measure the digital economy. But the details could be found on the website. So today, I am here to talk about the safe space for children. Children are digital natives. And actually, I was having a chat with my kids, who are 13 and 10, last night. And I was talking to them. I was telling them that I’m going at a session for online safety for children. So could you tell me what are the issues that you face online? And they said, what do you mean? What do you mean online? Or what do you mean issues that we face? And it took me a while to bring it to them or to discuss with them that there is a world around the digital world for them. So for them, it’s all about digital. And that is why, when we think about them being digital natives, they live in the digital world. So the first question, when we are addressing the issues around the children’s online protection, are then is, how do we define a child? Who qualifies to be a child? Generally, a child becomes an adult when the child turns 18. But there’s no magic switch that flips, and you qualify from being a child to an adult. So when we are thinking of online safety, and we are thinking of creating the safe digital experiences, we need to remember that the child needs the change as they grow. And as they grow does not really only include as they grow from, for example, from toddler to a preteen, et cetera. But as the digital experiences evolve as well. And therefore, the discussion is ongoing, and the discussion has to evolve. And the measures to protect child online safety, they have to evolve keeping this into consideration. The second thing is then, how do we define a safe digital space? So the term refers to an online environment where individuals, especially children and vulnerable groups, can interact, communicate, and engage in various digital activities without having the risk, without experience the risk of harm, exploitation, or abuse. Five years ago, approximately, there there was a study that I was just looking up for, and almost a third of digital interactions or a third of internet users were children, and this was five years ago. I’m not sure, I did not come across, maybe the panelists have a latest number, but I’m sure it’s half of the population or half of the internet users are. So keeping this into consideration, last year we did some work on digital rights, and one of the streams of our work focused on online safe space, especially for children. We developed through consultation, and I will come back to it, how did we do it, but we developed a paper that is available on the DCO website. I welcome you all to have a look at that paper, and in that paper, we explored different dimensions of what are the threats and challenges, as you could see on your screen, that the children are subjected to, and what are the different categories, who are the stakeholders who can play a part in protecting the safe space for children, and then we furnished some policy recommendations based on that. So OECD categorizes the risks into three categories, the risks that are associated with technology, the ones that are associated related to the customer experiences, and the risks related to privacy and security. We all know, and I think we will get, so we have social media representation here, so we’ll explore what is being done to counter the effects of addictive behaviors of social media, especially with the endless scrolling feature, then we have the immersive technologies, for example, metaverse, and a lot of virtual technologies that are coming, so what could be the impact, for example, if the amount of data that is being collected, or that could be collected on a child, or anybody who is using those technologies, and how it could be used, and how it could be protected, we will explore how that risk can be effectively addressed, and then we, cyber bullying and social media, et cetera, bullying, et cetera, they’re all the risks that the children face in today’s world, and hopefully with our discussion, we will address some of those, and we’ll see what is being done to address them. So then, normally, and you could see on this slide, this is, it could be educational institutions, or it could be any organizations that are dealing with the children’s data, or who are dealing with the children, so the data leaks, for example, from the education system is a growing concern, which can then, if it lands in the wrong hands, could be used for harmful manipulation of kids, for example, or the ineffective crisis management by the institutions, or by the organization, can lead to reputational damages, lack of efficient incident management could cause disruption from the education system for the kids that is highly dependent on the online interfaces now. So the paper then comes to present some policy recommendations for four kind of stakeholders. So, for example, schools and educators should support the programs and helplines for children to create awareness campaigns, on cyberbullying especially. The role of parents is moving beyond just implementing the parental control, and it’s about parents’ involvement, and I’ll give you a small example towards the end of my conversation here on that, but it’s not just that you yell at them and say, your screen time is over, and then disconnect yourself, that’s not working anymore. Government, for example, so there is a concern about the targeted ads, about the endless scrolling, about the transparency of what the kids say, so governments have a lot to do there. And private sector, the most important thing is, and this is for all, is to involve children, or involve the young people into whatever is being designed at them. Okay, now the boring stuff aside, so last night I went home, as I said, that I just got my 10 years old, and I said, look, I’m preparing something for tomorrow, so could you give me a few points that I can bring up? So she went back, and she wrote this piece of paper for me, and I think this is the, and it was not meant to be shown, she just wrote this piece of paper for me, and this was for me to copy the points here, and I just looked at it, I just pulled it out from my notebook, and I think to conclude my intervention here, I would just read what she said. Just read in whatever grammatic mistakes or whatever you find it. So, number one, she says games. So she categorized her online interaction after we had this conversation that, you know, how do you look at the online space for games? She says problem is cyberbullying. Now she, a 10 years old, is aware of cyberbullying before looking it up, and I had no idea about it. And she says the solution is to report the person, then talk to an adult, and who you feel comfortable with. So this is her recommendation, right? Then she writes apps. Calling apps is a subcategory that she produced, and the problem, she says, is random people calling or texting you. She does not have a cell phone. So I was quite surprised to see this, that the ways of interaction that is subject to, of course she has a tab, she interacts with people, so this is a problem that she identified, and the solution is ignore and block. So we need the kids, they are smart, but we really need to reinforce this. Then she says watching apps. Of course, this is the content that is available online, and the problem is inappropriate content. So we try to protect them from any inappropriate content, but they are very well aware. And the solution, she says, is report the, okay, report the channel, and dislike the video. And then she says, if you are a minor, turn kids mode on. By the way, I’m, okay. So then comes the final thing is social media, and the problem, she said, is addiction. And the solution is put a screen time limit, which I normally do, and go outside regularly. So the importance of the physical activities is really important. The final one is, again, on the social media, she says hacking. Make the system stronger so the hackers cannot break into people’s accounts. So I would really finish my speech with this, because last night at around 12.30, when she gave me this paper, she has school holidays, so she’s allowed to keep awake until late, I said, okay, you know, I’m done. I just put this paper, I’ll just read it out in front of the panel today. So with now, with this, thank you very much. I pass it on to our able moderator, Mr. Philip Nahas now. We went through the moderation sessions, and the floor is all yours now. Thank you. Thank you very much, Ahmed, and.

Philippe Nahas: Thank you. Testing, testing. Oh, hi, now. Ahmed, and special thanks to little Miss Binder for insights straight. Good, again, everyone, my apologies for joining this session late today. And I’ll start by saying that I got from my child’s nursery, which is that we overprotect children in the world, and we underprotect them in the virtual world. And today, we’re here to discuss that, to understand how can we provide the right protection for children across the virtual world. And for that, I have a very distinguished panel joining me today. I’m gonna take back my seat because I feel I’m disconnecting here. Excuse me while I do this sitting down. And again, let’s see. Hello, testing. Very well. Okay. Opening my laptop and my notes for today. Moments to introduce everyone. So maybe it’s starting on, excellent, excellent. So maybe we can take some time to go over a few questions. The last, Miss Binder gave was, secure your system to that, I mean. And I think this is, you know, Haitham, this is your area of predilection. So my question to you is, maybe if I put it in my, what are the do’s and don’ts for institutions when it comes to cybersecurity and environments? Thank you.

Ahmad Bhinder: Let me start by saying, yeah. Mine is not working? Okay. So let me start by saying, it’s very personal to everyone who has like children because like, it impacts everyone. society on the planet and when it becomes personal we have to put the right measure. It becomes even more an obligation for all of us to stand and to protect the most vulnerable part of our society which is children. Now to do that there is an obligation on multiple stakeholders the way we look at this in PwC. So there’s a role for international communities and we have seen for example Saudi taking a big step last year in arranging what we call a child protection conference or summit which took place in Riyadh where they looked into international collaboration to look into this international challenge. Now if you go down the role of government I’m not going to talk about that then also schools, parents, etc. Now if we zoom into the private sector where I belong so we categorize the private sector into three categories the way we look into that framework. So the first category is social media, gaming platform and those platforms or like mobile operator or technology manufacturers who interact directly with children. This is the first let’s say layer of technology or private sector that interact with with children and there is a big role that these players should play in terms of many factors let’s say different risks cyber bullying so how do you how do you minimize that by having the right functions from from social media platforms and we’ll talk about that from meta we’ll hear about that from meta so how do you control comments how do you control the ability to block certain user not all platforms they have this so this is a journey that all platforms should adopt that kind of behavior it’s it’s it’s like we take it by default by leading players like meta or or Instagram and stuff like that but others should also follow. There’s inappropriate content for example inappropriate content then here comes the role of AI where not just AI but even a human moderation is needed to control that and to filter content for children similarly when you talk about privacy privacy is very important that we have the right privacy configuration for that these platforms adopt in order to make sure that they have this by default it’s no longer like a feature it should come by default in these platforms two-factor authentication for for users for children even it’s it become it should become easier and easier it should become again a default setup that kind of obligation on those players is very important activating features like parental control screen time like what your daughter suggested and also we recommend that parents and children they use the same platforms because that makes it easier for parents to control what their what what their children watch or limit screen time or ability to download apps and stuff like that then the second category of private sector would be companies service providers technology vendors these guys they work in the back let’s say to serve the the entities that they they deal with children directly these companies they need to invest more in R&D they need to work with law enforcement’s they need to work with regulators to help them drafting these kind of policies this is the kind of consulting work that companies like PwC do vendors they have like big obligation to invest more in ethical AI and stuff

Philippe Nahas: like that and finally we look into corporates or organizations in the private sector they also have a role to play adopting compliance and privacy laws protecting young generations and let’s not one of the challenges we talk about it’s an interesting one is the new generation is very like let’s say they have this mentality of hacking and not adhering to like corporate kind of policies that’s new generations like this how do you deal with that kind of behavior how do you make sure you give them the best experience but at the same time it’s safe and it does not compromise the the corporate policies as well you very much thank you for that you you spoke about corporate policies and I think that’s a very important point to touch on and maybe I’ll turn it to Mo to give us his view about whether these corporate policies should be more about adults setting the path to safety for children or are these also about empowering children themselves to self-govern their safety what’s your

Mohamed Isap: view on that Mo? Can you hear me okay? I think the technology is struggling at the moment. I can give you a perspective just from my let’s swap. So I’ll give you a perspective from what we do in in the UK so we we have a cyber eSports Academy seven and a half thousand young people transition through those academies across the country and one of the things I will say starting point is that we cannot just use a single definition of children and think that that is be all and end all in terms of policy thinking you’ve got a spectrum of children those from disadvantaged backgrounds to those from more affluent backgrounds there is a very different exposure to risk in those socio-economic contexts there’s also the way young people are from neurodiversity to learning and learning styles and how they interact into that world and and unless we understand the nuance no policy can ever work and it’s got to be at that sort of level of hyper local to hyper child in the context of how that child is engaging with the wider world and the digital world is just part of the oxygen that they breathe so what we found in our cyber eSports academies is that you’ve got young people who are feeling empowered and belonged and and I think that one thing that heartens me that all the surveys that I’ve seen and and I’ve experienced from those young people that go through my academies is that they do know right from wrong in fact to be honest with you I think they’re probably better than our generation was in terms of understanding right from wrong it’s just the world is more gray than it was black and white in our day and and let’s be honest in in our ability to try you know and you’ve heard already that we all have limitations of our knowledge about this world and you know any one of us of a certain generation that had sex education at school I don’t think anybody really learned about sex at school they just experienced it themselves and learn for themselves I think this is the same issue young people are not listening in the classroom they’re just experiencing it for themselves the difference is if you give them a place where they can be empowered in a safe place and what we do with our cyber eSports academies is that we give them the belonging of the positive elements of this world and how they can be empowered both in terms of understanding their their futures but also understanding that there’s a physicality with that digital world and making friends and connecting with peers kind of you know is augmented with the digital world not just exclusively in the digital world and those two things are are critically important so I think you know from a from an understanding of young people point of view and and and what we do to empower them to to you know we have cyber teams in each school and and and I believe that you know we need to get to a point where young people will govern this space themselves if you give them the tools and the ability to do so and and like we have you know in every school in every country young people will be selected as head boy and head girl and prefects and monitors I think there’s a space now for schools to really identify digital advocates to be able to govern across their peer group and and give support to the educators because the educators are really struggling to keep up with the nuance and the complexities even primaries I mean I’ve got you know 16 primary schools in my trust and if I speak to the educators in the primary schools they’re at a loss because the sophistication of a year five or year six child is way beyond the capacity of a key stage to teacher who really does not understand truly the complexity so they might deliver a curriculum but that is nowhere near where it needs to be and that confidence needs to emanate from both educators and empowerment for young people so from my point of view what we found successful across our cyber and esports academies we deliver cyber first for GCHQ is when we create a safe space for them to be empowered I think you get some really brilliant outcomes but I just say that the more deprived the more disadvantaged the young person the more vulnerable they are so that’s the point at which we have to do more because a parent can have all of the sort of tools if they’re educated if they’re from a decent socio-economic background but I think one thing I would say as a parent and my children have grown up now but I would just say that parents need to empathize more I don’t think that there is this preaching mentality that’s going to ever work I think there’s a confidence and a openness to understanding and also for parents to want to learn rather than try and educate all the time as well thank you very much Mo and I think you’ve you’ve touched on a good point it’s how do we provide a safe space for children to experiment and how do we give them the tools to do so across the board I feel that the first online space that children tend to experiment with is social media today and maybe that’s the perfect segue for question to Shivnath here and it’s you know in terms In terms of that space, in terms of the environment, what’s META’s approach to ensure the safety and the well-being of children online, especially with respect to the products that you provide? I’m going to share my mic with you.

Shivnath Thukral: Thanks so much. And firstly, I want to thank all my panelists and you for framing this issue in a very forward-looking manner. I can assure this room that usually when I’m in panels, it starts with a very attack mode. What I’m glad to hear is that at least you all are thinking of solutions and how to make it better rather than looking at blaming anyone. And everybody talked about their parental experience. I have a 10-year-old son and a 7-year-old daughter. And trust me, I think despite me working for META, they know much more than I do when it comes to the world of technology. Sometimes I have to look at them to get some tricks caught. And yet, what they don’t realize is there is something called the cloud. So when they’re sitting back in India and working on their iPad, I can see them clicking pictures on the iPad on the photo booth and uploading, thinking that I’ll not get to see. It’s just that the iCloud account is linked to my phone. And I see these photo booth pictures appearing on my phone. Having said that, that brings me to the moot point. What as companies are we doing, or what is our approach? I can confidently state that as a company, which is one of the leading companies in the world of social communication, the approach we have taken is very pragmatic, forward-looking, and builds solutions, some of which we have heard already and some of which are already existing through the product. You cannot bring in a sheet of paper and tell people to say, these are the features that can happen. These features are already there, whether it’s about nonstop addiction, nudging on alternate content, sleep time, parental controls, which brings me to a more fundamental issue. You can do parental controls. The question we have to ask is, do our children want us to be allowed to implement those parental controls? Will they like it if you tell them, give me the phone, let me put it on, and now I have some control? They don’t even want to share their account. That’s the reality. You can have parental control, but kids don’t like to share their account details, right? So then what do you do? So I think the more fundamental approach is think it through the design level. So someone rightly said, we’ve launched something called teen accounts, where the default feature of a teenager will be on a parental control site. It is not like they have to give it. So the default feature, if you are below 16, will be on a parental control site. I think as a tech company, if I don’t use the tech to install these solutions, we have a problem, and that’s why I think we have taken the right measures. But I want to share one thing with this room. This will never be a 100% job done. It cannot be. Reason, just like in the real world, bad actors are everywhere. In the virtual world, bad actors are everywhere. But we need to think through what you read from your piece of paper, unwanted contact. On Instagram, for example, we do not allow anybody who you don’t know to contact you, to message you or whatever, and yet, we see instances of cyber bullying or unwanted contact happening through different forums, because the bad actors are on the prowl. So the question is, as parents, how vigilant are we? Like Mo said, the tools or the thinking of yesterday cannot confront the issues of today. So are we upping our game as parents? I find it a challenge, despite being in a tech company. Sometimes we are not able to gauge what the bad actors are going to do. Hacking impersonation, it is not just a child or a youth issue. How many people in this room have not been hacked? We are all adults. Please tell me the truth that you’ve never been hacked. Do you have your two-factor verification on on your Instagram or WhatsApp? I’m sure many of you don’t. Why? This is despite us being adults, we don’t try to go and do it. So you imagine your child should be doing that. So the awareness and the knowledge level, how we are doing. One fundamental approach from the safety of the youth, which we feel we very strongly believe in, is the framework of preventing, controlling, and responding. We take several measures, including deploying a lot of AI tools, looking at keywords to make sure anything bad, before it happens, we can prevent it. Once a bad incident has already happened, it’s too late. We have lost that game then. So prevention is the most critical thing of taking down accounts, which are usually on the prowl, et cetera. Then is giving user control, which is related to all the features, et cetera, that we have. The third one is as critical, which is responding. How fast are we able to give you ability to report to us? And how fast are we responding to it? Are we working with enough civil society organizations? Like we have a program ongoing with NECMEC where we share CSAM data to make sure that law enforcement agencies across the world are able to work with each other. So I think the prevent, control, and respond mechanism is super critical. And the last piece I will say is, on more egregious issues like CSAM, et cetera, we take it very seriously. We are invested heavily on that. And I think we work across multiple agencies across the world inside our company. We have many former law enforcement officials who work with us, officers who work with us, and we deploy a range of technology to make sure that we are able to prevent bad actors from being on the platform. It is not in our interest. I mean, I cannot ask you to be user of my platform if I can’t keep our children safe. I’m a parent. As a parent, it is my responsibility. And in India, trust me, I show up in front of every regulator to be asked very, very tough questions. But I can also say very proudly that we play on the front foot by stating what we do, running public affair campaigns for awareness, et cetera. But at the end of the day, my product has to do the talking, and that’s what we are focused on.

Philippe Nahas: Thank you very much. Thank you. I think you’ve made a very good point on the engagement with the regulators, and you’re constantly on that. Would you care to elaborate a bit more about… We have Afroz online from UNICEF. We do, I suppose. Yes, we do. So should we invite her? Yeah, I think she would be absolutely next. At this point, I think if we’re talking about policy stakeholders, I think it’s a good idea to talk to Afroz. And I think to hear from you as well, Ahmed, from the NGOs perspective, from the policymakers perspective. And to begin with, if Afroz is with us, and she can hear us, right?

Ahmad Bhinder: Okay, very good.

Afrooz Johnson: So maybe Afroz, the question to you here, which is, what are the most critical interventions that governments in various countries can make to protect the children online? And this is from your experience as UNICEF. What can you tell us? Yeah, thank you so much. And sorry I didn’t meet you at the outset, Philippe, but it’s great to be part of this conversation. So I think I would just highlight four key challenges, and then the responses that we’re advocating for and supporting government with around the world. So a lot of them have already been touched on, so forgive me for repetition. But the first, I think, when we look at this issue, is the design and the operation of digital services and platforms. We’ve heard how there are bad actors on these platforms, but also there are design features that make more risks for children, and not just children, as we’ve heard. So we see that there are user engagement prioritized over child safeguarding, for example. The ways in which platforms are designed facilitate this rapid and wide-ranging spread of hateful and abusive content, as another example. So the ask there for government and for regulators is requiring the tech sector to undertake assessments, and I think this came out in the DCO report as well. And what UNICEF advocates for is for child rights due diligence, and particularly child rights impact assessments, so that companies can, rather than being reactive and trying to retrofit after the fact, can be more proactive and embed this concept of child rights by design, which is inclusive of safety by design and privacy by design. So all of these are prioritized in the development of digital products and services. So this is the first ask. For governments and policy makers is really prioritizing children’s rights in the design and governance of technology products, and this could be through regulation or other means. The second main challenge is, of course, that we know that laws have not kept pace with the rapid development of digital technologies. And then when we’re talking about criminal activity, there are also challenges in investigating and prosecuting cross-border cases. So the ask then, again, for government and what we’ve done around the world is really support a government to update laws and policies so that online violence is adequately criminalized and that they’re also future-proofed against rapidly evolving technologies. The third challenge that we see around the world is that social services and law enforcement often lack the resources and the… expertise to to address these these new challenges through digital technologies. So this makes it hard to support you know at-risk children and also it makes it hard to identify perpetrators and I really I really appreciated the intervention earlier just you know talking about you know particular groups of children that are at risk and the solutions for supporting them you know need to happen kind of in real life if I can put it like that so we need strong social services in order to identify and support children. In many countries mental health services are often insufficient so this can leave children without support which again you know it makes them vulnerable but it also means that they they don’t get adequate support after if and when something you know happens online so I think the ask there the government is really equipping law enforcement, educators, social services and others to really identify respond to and prevent forms of online harm. And then finally I would say there are challenges with respect to some harmful kind of social norms and limited public discussion that we have in many communities around the world you know there are taboos around talking about certain topics like sexual abuse and these things can make it difficult for victims you know to speak out and we know that you know there are forms of sexual abuse that are facilitated by technologies and when we have these you know limited public discussion and we have these harmful norms it can really constrain kind of the efforts to prevent and respond. So as well as you know the efforts that we’ve spoken about for governments supporting children’s digital literacy and online safety we also need those broader educative initiatives that are designed to foster healthy relationships in early adolescence those that are designed to challenge kind of harmful gender norms to motivate help-seeking and really support children you know if if their peers disclose to them how can they react to that. And of course all these other educational initiatives with parents and caregivers and educators. So I’ll stop there for now. Thank you.

Philippe Nahas: Thank you very much Afroz. I think it’s it’s very interesting that you spoke about you know the your collaboration with the various governments and maybe we can hear it from another perspective. The DCO is all about collaboration between various governments specifically the the digital arms of these governments. Maybe you can tell us in your experience Ahmad how does that collaboration contribute to the safety of children online? Thank you

Ahmad Bhinder: Philip. I think I will start with this. So there’s one of one topic across the policy domains we are public policy practitioners where there is a consensus that things need to be done. So children need to be protected. So we have we have come to a level of consensus where you know a lot of other policy debates are towards you know taking an approach or another. There is a global consensus that there needs to be something needs to be done to protect the children and especially while they are vulnerable online. Now then the question is how do you how do we activate the different stakeholders? So the role of the intergovernmental organization like UNICEF is broadly policy guidance or proposing initiatives or proposing different measures. The role of the technology companies is to use technology to to enhance or advance that agenda. So the companies the organizations are actually involved in these discussions and this dialogue. So I’ll give you an example last year and this is where this this session and this policy paper came from. We have a program called digital space accelerators program where we where we pick up the pressing issues in the digital economy and then we have global roundtables and discussions across all the regions and we bring in experts to to really talk about and discuss the issues and how to collaboratively solve those issues. So so so in so this is one role of the intergovernmental organizations but I think there’s a there’s a need for a more concerted effort on the national levels as well. So right now of course the policy landscape and the legal landscape and the regulatory landscape are different across different across different countries and the level of maturity is quite different across different countries. So one of the recommendations that we or one of the things that we picked up from last year’s collaborative discussion was that on a national level considering the or identifying different stakeholders that could include educators of course there are there common stakeholders like government policymakers and like technology companies that are beyond borders but to get them together come up with with children online protection strategy. So that would include what are the rules that need to be made, what are the rules that need to be tweaked, what are the initiatives. So it has to be a concerted effort on national levels while learning from the best practices of course we have a whole bunch of them and then having a national championship in across those nation nations and then those that that could then be expanded on a regional or international level. Thank you very very much. I think we’re all out of questions for today. I’ll open it up to the audience if there are a few questions that you have for any of our panelists today. Please raise your hand and we’ll give you the microphone.

Philippe Nahas: We’ve got time literally for a couple of questions so I think I’ll start with the lady and then pass it on to you. Yes thank you so much. My name is Jutta Kroll

Audience: from the German Digital Opportunities Foundation. I’m a children’s rights advocate and first let me congratulate that you have today a manual with only male speakers because several years ago we would have been talking about safety for children only among women. So it’s kind of an achievement that no woman is on your stage. I would like to refer you to the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child because you have somehow picked upon that issue. I saw the eSports most speaking about the eSports and that is related to the children’s rights to leisure time to play in article 31 but also I thought that some of the measures you’ve been talking about would touch upon children’s privacy when and that is article 16 of the UN Convention. So when we put up parental controls when you have a look at the photos your children upload to the cloud without them knowing that would touch upon their privacy. So we need to take care that we balance privacy of children as well as their right to be protected. Thank you for listening. Thank you. Thank you very much for sharing. Thank you so much for your presentation. I’m actually currently a high school student in Massachusetts so as like as a literal child perspective I want to elaborate a little bit on what you said about how children indeed know the difference between right and wrong. I completely agree with that after being exposed to all kinds of like education about digital safety and stuff but one thing I observed in my school is that despite the fact that we we all have been educated about digital safety we we still become we still become vulnerable to it and some people even go on to become the attacker. So I think the reason for that is that children are evolving and technologies are evolving but the education on digital safety has to keep pace with those evolution so I think it’s also time for us to like revolutionize our education for our children. Thank you. Thank you very much for sharing. Maybe I’ll conclude in a minute

Philippe Nahas: just to say that we’ve we’ve seen in short that the digital world is actually a an image of the real world whereby you know we we determine there are bad actors in both and we need protection in both. Certainly the policies out there we’re not up to speed we have been playing catch-up for the past few years and we are still catching up with a very fast paced evolution of the the digital realm. One thing that I think becomes apparent from our panelists here is the importance of looking at it holistically from international organizations to governments to parents to law enforcement as well as policymakers all the way to empowering children themselves and I think as you well said the the difference between right and wrong is something that should be infused at a very early age and it should be holistically part of what we do as we conceive new policies to go ahead. Thank you very much everyone for listening. I appreciate your time and hope to see you again soon.

Agreement Points

Children face multiple risks online

Ahmad Bhinder

Shivnath Thukral

Afrooz Johnson

Risks include cyberbullying, addiction, inappropriate content, and privacy concerns

Bad actors are present in both the real and virtual worlds

Laws have not kept pace with rapidly evolving digital technologies

The speakers agree that children face various risks online, including cyberbullying, addiction, exposure to inappropriate content, and privacy issues. They acknowledge the presence of bad actors in digital spaces and the challenge of outdated laws in addressing these risks.

Need for multi-stakeholder approach

Ahmad Bhinder

Haitham Al Jowhari

Afrooz Johnson

Develop national children’s online protection strategies

Private sector should invest in R&D and work with law enforcement and regulators

Governments should update laws and equip law enforcement and social services

The speakers emphasize the importance of collaboration between various stakeholders, including governments, private sector, law enforcement, and social services, to effectively protect children online.

Similar Viewpoints

Both speakers advocate for empowering children and parents to take an active role in managing online safety, rather than relying solely on external controls.

Mo Isap

Shivnath Thukral

Empower children to self-govern their online safety

Parents need to be more vigilant and empathetic towards children’s online experiences

Unexpected Consensus

Balancing protection and privacy

Shivnath Thukral

Audience

Implement parental controls while respecting children’s privacy

Balance children’s right to protection with their right to privacy

There was an unexpected consensus between a tech company representative and an audience member on the need to balance child protection measures with respecting children’s privacy rights. This highlights a shared recognition of the complexity in implementing safety measures without infringing on children’s rights.

Overall Assessment

Summary

The main areas of agreement include recognizing the multiple risks children face online, the need for a multi-stakeholder approach to online child protection, and the importance of empowering children and parents in managing online safety.

Consensus level

There was a moderate level of consensus among the speakers on the key challenges and general approaches to protecting children online. This consensus suggests a shared understanding of the complexities involved and the need for collaborative efforts. However, there were also nuanced differences in proposed solutions and emphases, indicating that while there is agreement on the broad issues, there is still room for debate on specific strategies and implementations.

Different Viewpoints

Approach to parental controls

Shivnath Thukral

Mo Isap

Implement parental controls while respecting children’s privacy

Empower children to self-govern their online safety

Thukral advocates for implementing parental controls by default, while Isap emphasizes empowering children to self-govern their online safety.

Unexpected Differences

Overall Assessment

summary

The main areas of disagreement revolve around the balance between protection and empowerment of children online, and the specific approaches to implementing online safety measures.

difference_level

The level of disagreement among the speakers is relatively low. Most speakers agree on the importance of protecting children online but have slightly different approaches or emphasize different aspects. This suggests a general consensus on the need for action, which could facilitate collaborative efforts to address the issue of children’s online safety.

Partial Agreements

All speakers agree on the need for safe online spaces for children, but differ in their approaches. Thukral emphasizes default safety features, Isap focuses on creating empowering environments, and Bhinder advocates for involving children in designing solutions.

Shivnath Thukral

Mo Isap

Ahmad Bhinder

Social media platforms should implement safety features by default

Create safe spaces for children to be empowered and experiment online

Involve children in designing solutions for their online safety

Similar Viewpoints

Both speakers advocate for empowering children and parents to take an active role in managing online safety, rather than relying solely on external controls.

Mo Isap

Shivnath Thukral

Empower children to self-govern their online safety

Parents need to be more vigilant and empathetic towards children’s online experiences

Key Takeaways

Protecting children online requires a holistic approach involving multiple stakeholders including governments, tech companies, parents, educators, and children themselves

There is a global consensus that action needs to be taken to protect children online, but policies and regulations are still catching up to rapidly evolving technologies

Empowering and educating children about online safety is crucial, while also implementing technological safeguards

Balancing protection with children’s rights to privacy and autonomy online is an important consideration

Online safety measures need to account for different socioeconomic contexts and evolve along with technology

Resolutions and Action Items

Tech companies should implement safety features by default in products used by children

Governments should update laws to adequately criminalize online violence against children

Child rights impact assessments should be required for tech companies developing products used by children

Schools should identify digital advocates among students to support peers on online safety

Develop national children’s online protection strategies in different countries

Unresolved Issues

How to effectively balance children’s right to protection with their right to privacy online

How to keep digital safety education evolving at the pace of technological change

How to address online safety challenges for children from different socioeconomic backgrounds

How to combat the problem of children becoming online attackers themselves despite safety education

Suggested Compromises

Implement parental controls while still respecting children’s privacy to some degree

Create safe online spaces for children to experiment and learn while still providing some oversight

Balance top-down safety measures with empowering children to self-govern their online experiences

Children are digital natives… So for them, it’s all about digital. And that is why, when we think about them being digital natives, they live in the digital world.

speaker

Ahmad Bhinder

reason

This comment frames the fundamental challenge of protecting children online by highlighting how deeply integrated the digital world is for today’s youth.

impact

It set the tone for the discussion by emphasizing the need to understand children’s perspective and experiences in the digital realm.

We overprotect children in the world, and we underprotect them in the virtual world.

speaker

Philippe Nahas

reason

This succinct statement captures a key paradox in how society approaches child safety online versus offline.

impact

It prompted the panelists to consider the imbalance in protection measures and discuss ways to better safeguard children in digital spaces.

We cannot just use a single definition of children and think that that is be all and end all in terms of policy thinking… Unless we understand the nuance no policy can ever work

speaker

Mo Isap

reason

This insight highlights the complexity of creating effective policies for child online safety, emphasizing the need for nuanced approaches.

impact

It shifted the conversation towards considering more tailored and flexible policy solutions that account for diverse children’s experiences and backgrounds.

The approach we have taken is very pragmatic, forward-looking, and builds solutions… You cannot bring in a sheet of paper and tell people to say, these are the features that can happen. These features are already there

speaker

Shivnath Thukral

reason

This comment provides insight into how tech companies are proactively addressing online safety issues through product design.

impact

It brought a practical perspective to the discussion, highlighting existing solutions and the ongoing efforts of tech companies to improve safety features.

We need strong social services in order to identify and support children. In many countries mental health services are often insufficient so this can leave children without support

speaker

Afrooz Johnson

reason

This comment broadens the scope of the discussion by emphasizing the importance of real-world support systems in conjunction with online safety measures.

impact

It led to a more holistic consideration of child protection, linking online safety to broader social services and mental health support.

Overall Assessment

These key comments shaped the discussion by broadening its scope from purely technical solutions to a more comprehensive approach. They highlighted the complexity of the issue, emphasizing the need for nuanced policies, proactive design by tech companies, and strong real-world support systems. The discussion evolved from defining the problem to exploring multifaceted solutions involving various stakeholders, including governments, tech companies, educators, and parents. This resulted in a rich, nuanced conversation that acknowledged both the challenges and potential pathways for improving children’s online safety.

What are the latest statistics on the proportion of internet users who are children?

speaker

Ahmad Bhinder

explanation

Updated data is needed to understand the current scale of children’s internet usage and inform policy decisions.

How can we effectively address the risks associated with immersive technologies like the metaverse for children?

speaker

Ahmad Bhinder

explanation

As new technologies emerge, it’s important to proactively consider their potential impacts on children’s safety and privacy.

How can we better involve children in the design of online safety measures and policies?

speaker

Ahmad Bhinder

explanation

Incorporating children’s perspectives is crucial for developing effective and relevant safety measures.

How can we address the different levels of vulnerability to online risks among children from various socio-economic backgrounds?

speaker

Mo Isap

explanation

Understanding and addressing these disparities is crucial for ensuring equitable protection for all children online.

How can we better equip educators to understand and address the complexities of children’s online experiences?

speaker

Mo Isap

explanation

Many educators struggle to keep up with rapidly evolving digital landscapes, impacting their ability to support children effectively.

How can we develop more effective ways to implement parental controls that children will accept?

speaker

Shivnath Thukral

explanation

Current parental control methods often face resistance from children, limiting their effectiveness.

How can we improve the speed and effectiveness of responding to reports of online harm to children?

speaker

Shivnath Thukral

explanation

Rapid response to reports is crucial for minimizing harm and maintaining user trust in online platforms.

How can we better support law enforcement and social services in addressing online child protection issues?

speaker

Afrooz Johnson

explanation

Many agencies lack the resources and expertise to effectively tackle digital child protection challenges.

How can we develop more effective educational initiatives to challenge harmful social norms and encourage help-seeking behaviors related to online safety?

speaker

Afrooz Johnson

explanation

Addressing underlying social norms is crucial for creating a safer online environment for children.

How can we ensure that child protection measures respect children’s right to privacy?

speaker

Audience member (Jutta Kroll)

explanation

There is a need to balance protection efforts with children’s rights to privacy as outlined in the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child.

How can we evolve digital safety education to keep pace with rapidly changing technologies and children’s behaviors?

speaker

Audience member (high school student)

explanation

Current educational approaches may not be sufficiently addressing the evolving nature of online risks and children’s interactions with technology.