Financing Broadband Networks of the Future to bridge digital

Hokuto Nakagawa

In the detailed dialogue, two protagonists, Miss Adriana Labadini and Mr. Alejandro Solano, undergo an audio-visual check, addressing communication requirements to seamlessly partake in an impending discussion.

The dialogue initiates with the probe into Miss Adriana Labadini’s auditory capabilities, to which she eagerly responds in affirmation. Thus, her active participation in the auditory sphere of the exchange is substantiated. Following this, her visual confirmation, though providing evidence via her camera, is solicited. She acquiesces to the appeal, ensuring her visibility to co-participants, confirming her visual presence, adding another feather to the conversation’s cap.

The same methodology of validation was carried out for Mr. Alejandro Solano, with a focus initially on substantiating his auditory faculties with respect to the dialogue at hand. With an affirmative rejoinder, his auditory engagement is secured. Consequently, he is tasked to provide ocular evidence establishing his readiness via his camera. With a successful appearance on camera, Mr. Solano’s visual participation was similarly ratified.

By the end of the dialogue, it’s evident that both primary participants have validated their auditory and visual presence, staging up for any forthcoming communication. This procedure exemplifies a diligent paradigm to ensure smooth, undisturbed discourse in an unspecified future agenda. As a preamble to conversation flow, attention to such nuances often mitigates unexpected technical hitches, subtly promoting the proficiency of the conversation as a whole.

Agnė Vaiciukevičiūtė

The proven collaboration between the public and private sectors is instrumental in the achievement of connectivity objectives and the rollout of broadband networks. The Lithuanian case is a stellar example of this successful partnership, reflecting positively on SDG 9: Industry, Innovation, and Infrastructure. This collaborative approach prompts the government to concentrate on crafting the optimal legal and regulatory ecosystem, with the private sector augmenting official efforts.

Considerable achievements in the realm of network connectivity characterise Lithuania’s performance. The country’s success is evident in the exceptionally high figures associated with the rollout of fixed, very high-capacity networks and fibre to the premises, both surpassing the European Union average. Furthermore, Lithuania’s 5G coverage is on par with that of Japan, underscoring the nation’s substantial strides in this field.

At present, Lithuania is focusing its attention on facilitating access to gigabit broadband infrastructure. Accomplishing this ambitious aim within the next five years involves covering all significant digitally-sensitive users and allocating substantial funds from the Lithuanian government.

Lithuania demonstrates the critical role of the government in ensuring equal access to digital opportunities, irrespective of geographical location. The government proactively established a non-profit company specifically to deploy broadband infrastructure in rural areas, a model that has been effective for 18 years. Prices for wholesale services under this model are predicated solely on costs.

Lithuania advocates for the use of public funds to draw private investments into rural and remote areas. With no economically viable model for private companies to invest in these locations, the government provides a large part of the investment, paving the way for roughly 40 operators to purchase more than 5,800 units for wholesale services from the non-profit company.

Investment in 5G infrastructure is a priority for Lithuania, with the nation taking proactive measures related to self-driving cars and drones from a legislative perspective. Additionally, an impressive sum exceeding £25 million has been allocated for use cases on 5G. By the end of the current year, Lithuania aspires to launch a significant number of substantial 5G projects in various industries.

However, barriers remain, including the need to overhaul the existing legal framework for faster deployment. Current frameworks necessitate a two to three-year period for deployment, a delay Lithuania hopes to contract. Furthermore, synergy with other utilities is essential, particularly when amending road and communication infrastructures to prevent future issues.

Lithuania also underscores the importance of optimising investments. The country is working tirelessly to minimise the periods between the dedication of investments and the implementation, to expedite deployment and accelerate infrastructural development.

Overall, Lithuania has taken important steps to ensure holistic broadband connectivity, particularly in rural areas. The government-backed non-profit company, active for over 18 years since Lithuania regained independence, has been instrumental in bridging the gap between government investments and operator activities. With the government largely financing deployments and operators taking on the final connection to users, this model has achieved time-efficient and effective service provision.

In conclusion, Lithuania’s strategic separation of investment and implementation roles between the government and telecom operators has fostered efficient and widespread broadband coverage across the country. This successful model, fostering substantial digital gains in both urban and rural realms, lends itself to replication in other countries striving to enhance their digital connectivity levels.

Adriana Labardini

The comprehensive analysis primarily centres around the escalating challenge of the digital divide, emphasising that the market alone is inadequate to resolve this pressing issue. This viewpoint is supported by evidence from the Association for Progressive Communications (APC) and its partner organisation, Resomatica. Both have been supporting local network programmes across three regions of the Global South and in as many as 22 countries. These organisations argue for empowerment through building community-owned internet infrastructure, supplying a viable solution for underserved communities to gain control over their digital futures.

APC’s study, ‘Financing Mechanisms for Locally-Owned Infrastructure’, was conducted to heighten alertness within the financial community. The research unveiled how APC’s grant-making activities have helped establish infrastructures in several communities, further substantiating this approach.

The analysis underscores the necessity for sustainable, local-level investment, particularly the use of ‘green finance’, to achieve quality education and other Sustainable Development Goals (SDGs). APC advocates for an empowering policy environment and capacity-building. The significance of sustainable investment has been further exemplified through the lessons learned during the global pandemic.

Despite this, the analysis presents a negative sentiment towards the prohibitive pricing of backbone networks and artificial scarcity in the spectrum. This bosoms as a regulatory obstruction, causing unused spectrum in rural regions. The analysis underlines calls for a shift toward these policies.

Criticism towards financial entities and development banks was expressed, suggesting a limited understanding of new models and community networks. Beyond expanding the financial sector’s understanding of the value of local networks, it advocates for enhancing financial and managerial education within communities, thereby bridging the knowledge gap.

The review encourages the global financial community to invest in sustainable, local development models, suggesting these more eco-friendly approaches have a minimised environmental impact and align with ESG standards.

The analysis proposed changes to policy-making and communication networks. It advocated for affordable spectrum access, simplified licensing regimes, open data visibility for rural infrastructure, and the redefinition of universal service funds to support local operators.

Ending on a social note, the need for gender equality in community network funding was underscored, citing Brazilian recommendations for funding women-led initiatives. Finally, a more efficient policy-making approach was proposed by advocating for the sharing of unterutilised spectrum. This exhaustive review offers critical insights into triumphing over the digital divide, advocating for sustainable ‘green finance’, and liberalising communication networks, all of which underscore the urgent need for strategic reforms.

Verena Weber

Verena Weber prominently highlighted the crucial role of broadband connectivity in the process of digital transformation across economies and societies. The point she underscored is that digital transformation is not a standalone process but is deeply interconnected with the degree of connectivity offered by robust broadband networks. This connectivity, in return, heavily relies on the amount of investment and funding devoted to them. Weber’s insights suggest that the quality and coverage of broadband networks directly result from adequate financial inputs.

In an effort to maximise network infrastructures, Weber advocated a holistic approach that considers every potential contributor to infrastructure funding. This includes the diverse ecosystem of the communication operators who deliver broadband, tech companies that create solutions to maximise network reach and efficiencies, and private funds, which often constitute an essential part of financial investments in infrastructure.

Meanwhile, the OECD is keenly aware of this complex, multifaceted ecosystem and is taking proactive steps towards devising methods to quantify investments within it. Such measures would help create a more transparent and fair environment where investment efforts are accurately measured and acknowledged, thus encouraging increased participation.

Further to these perspectives, a significant observation was made regarding the trend in government funding strategies. There has been a marked increase in state funds channelled towards enhancing connectivity, particularly in remote and rural areas. This development underscores the recognition from government bodies of connectivity’s importance as a facilitator for digital transformation and economic growth.

In conclusion, investment in broadband infrastructure emerges as a key driver in the digital transformation of societies and economies. Both Weber’s advocacy for a more holistic approach and the OECD’s intent to quantify investment suggest a move towards more strategic, fairer, and diverse investment practices, ultimately leading to more inclusive digital growth.

Audience

The discourse primarily focuses on the pivotal role of government intervention in establishing and maintaining networks in rural regions. A probing enquiry from an audience member, keen to understand the operation of a specific governmental agency in Lithuania, devoted to rural areas, instigates this discussion. Further interest in a distinctive fund in Japan, dedicated to the preservation of rural networks, is manifested by the same member.

The audience member’s insights evince an understanding of the requisite governmental-regulated services, particularly in regions potentially lacking comprehensive infrastructural facilities. The neutral sentiment expressed suggests an absence of conflict and a sincere quest to explore plausible solutions for the complex challenges posed to rural networks.

Significantly, the debate aligns with the global developmental aim, specifically Sustainable Development Goal 9, spotlighting industry, innovation and infrastructure. This correlation underpins a conscious commitment towards building an advanced, equitable society. It implies the vital recognition that remote and rural areas must be inclusively considered in the pursuit of comprehensive network coverage and tech-driven growth.

Moreover, the audience member implies an advocacy stance for heightened government involvement to sustain and bolster rural networks. This stance demonstrates an appreciation of the government’s cornerstone role in promoting equitable access to technological progression.

The salient themes drawn from this discourse, centered around government intervention and rural locales, amplify the importance of these facets within the comprehensive conversation. Although no solid evidence or supporting facts are presented, the exploration’s intrinsic value lies in its presentation of diverse international perspectives, using Lithuania and Japan as discerning examples.

Kojo Boakye

Meta, formerly known as Facebook, has been playing a significant role in advancing Africa’s digital infrastructure. The company’s substantial investments in infrastructure networks have focused predominantly on submarine cables, terrestrial fibre, Content Delivery Networks (CDNs), co-located caching, and services. Among its most noteworthy projects is a cable built between the U.S. and Spain, which has already had a significant economic impact of nearly nine billion and one trillion cable actions. The company also anticipates the launch of two more cables, projected to add $32 billion and $27 billion to the economies of the countries involved; they are set to go live in 2024 and 2027 respectively.

In this wave of technological innovation, Meta has become a contributing partner in the 2Africa project, one of the world’s most extensive subsea cable projects. This significant feat of engineering aims to connect east to west through southern Africa with an impressive 180 terabytes of capacity, effectively linking 33 countries. The project’s vast capacity and redundancy benefits have elicited excitement from stakeholders such as Kojo Boakye and promise a substantial impact on the continent’s connectivity.

In its strategic bid to reduce end-consumer costs, Meta has made tactical investments in open access networks and backhaul in various markets, including the Democratic Republic of Congo, Uganda, South Africa, and Nigeria. These investments permit any operator to connect and render services, stimulating competition and thereby driving down the final expenses for consumers.

Meta has also emphasised creating and promoting cost-effective services and attracting users. The focus has particularly been on small-to-micro businesses prevalent in regions such as Africa, the Middle East, and Turkey, thereby furthering SDG 8: Decent Work and Economic Growth. Furthermore, the company is dedicated to ensuring that the services are offered in local languages to maximise outreach and usage.

Beyond mere network access, last-mile delivery has also been a focus of Meta’s endeavours. As revealed by a recent UN Broadband Commission report, at least 95% of the world’s population can now access a broadband network. To further bridge this gap, Meta has been stimulating investment, particularly into last-mile networks.

In the realm of policy and regulation, Meta has been influential, fostering predictability and better cooperation with governments, even if certain policy directives do not strictly align with private sector preferences.

With the emergence of technological opportunities such as the metaverse and artificial intelligence (AI), Meta has advocated creating space for innovation. Believing that technological advancement will assist in achieving Sustainable Development Goals (SDGs), Meta continues to champion innovations.

Finally, Meta underscores the importance of inclusivity in the moulding of digital policies. Marginalised groups particularly concerning gender equality, youth, and persons with disabilities must be given due consideration, ensuring no one is left behind in the digital revolution and progress towards SDG 5: Gender Equality and SDG 10: Reduced Inequalities.

In conclusion, Meta’s comprehensive approach positions it as an influential player in Africa’s evolving digital landscape, contributing effectively towards SDGs through its investments, projects, and favourable policies.

Maki Takahashi

Broadband connectivity is perceived as universally crucial, and the role of the Japanese government in incentivising investment in this sector is pivotal. Despite the hurdles associated with sparking investment in remote areas, the government’s targeted strategy and well-defined goals have galvanised the pursuit of nationwide connectivity. The Ministry of Internal Affairs and Communications (MIC) has formulated the National Broadband Connectivity Plan, a resolute approach aimed to achieve an outstanding 99.9% coverage of fixed broadband and 95% reach of 5G by the end of fiscal year 2025. Impressively, this coverage objective includes regions where erecting land broadband infrastructure is complex due to geographical and other risk factors.

By launching a subsidy scheme, the Japanese government has created an environment that encourages investment in connectivity. Consequently, key players like carriers and local governments have shown increased commitment and made significant strides towards closing the connectivity gap, particularly in rural areas. Additionally, a landmark amendment to the country’s telecommunication business law, introducing a universal service scheme for broadband, ensures rural broadband providers receive necessary support to maintain their infrastructure and deliver quality services.

Competition policy and spectrum allocation processes have also played substantial roles in stimulating and regulating investment in the connectivity domain. Japan, in particular, has implemented an asymmetric regulation strategy towards carriers with higher shares, fostering competition amongst carriers and encouraging ongoing investment in network enhancements.

Furthermore, Japan’s legal framework is evolving to accommodate recent technological developments, such as virtual networks, veering away from the current regulation model predominantly based on physical networks. In line with this shift, discussions around the use-cases of 5G technology, where the MIC earmarked areas like self-driving and drone usage, have gained importance.

Lastly, a characteristic of Japan’s innovative policy approach is the implementation of the universal service system. Under this scheme, both fixed and mobile broadband providers must contribute an amount based on the number of lines they operate. This fund is subsequently re-allocated to fixed broadband providers that invest in and maintain infrastructure in rural areas, ensuring even these areas have access to robust infrastructure.

In conclusion, Japan’s multi-faceted approach towards broadband connectivity, incorporating strategic policy formulation, targeted regulatory amendments, financial incentives, and proactive support for technological development, has charted a promising course in achieving nationwide connectivity. The country’s successes in this domain offer invaluable lessons for other nations facing similar challenges.

Alejandro Solano Diaz

ConnectFiber, a wholly privately-owned venture of global investment firm KKR and multinational telecoms giant Telefonica, is spearheading significant investments to augment network coverage and support systems across Colombia and Chile, with plans to expand into Peru shortly. Their commitment, projected to total approximately $240 million by the end of 2023, mirrors similar funding levels deployed by their counterparts in Chile.

Amidst a surging digital transformation across Latin America, ConnectFiber endeavours to bridge the digital divide in these nations by fostering the development of fibre-to-the-home (FTTH) infrastructure. Renowned as Colombia’s largest neutral fibre optic network, ConnectFiber is bolstering connectivity through their substantial investment in fibre optics. This is evidenced by the recent network expansion in Colombia, which saw a striking 175% growth measured by the number of households covered as of January 2022.

Underpinning ConnectFiber’s strategy is the pivotal role of open access networks in bolstering the viability of FTTH, and fostering a fertile market environment for free competition within the telecoms sector. The rise of open access networks proves crucial in overcoming challenges posed by the digital divide, lack of competition, and infrastructure deficiency, thereby facilitating fast and reliable internet access for individuals and businesses alike.

In addition, promoting and encouraging the proliferation of fibre-optic providers is found to be indispensable. Such providers offer multiple benefits, including enhanced connectivity, competition stimulation, innovation, development and significant socio-economic impacts. Notably, free and neutral networks contribute to operational efficiency by eliminating the need for deployment by multiple networks from various service providers, allowing service providers to focus resources on delivering superior customer service.

Regulatory bodies must also play their part, particularly in recognising the transformative potential of FTTH neutral networks, which disrupt traditional paradigms in telecoms network deployment. This approach not only facilitates the use of existing infrastructure, thereby reducing costs and accelerating deployment, but also underscores the critical role that technology plays in extending connectivity.

Given the diverse demographics and topography within Latin America, understanding and leveraging a range of technologies to bolster connectivity is crucial. This is especially relevant in enhancing connectivity programmes throughout the region, where internet access could ignite economic growth and significantly benefit sectors such as education, health, government and transport. Consequently, strengthening connectivity in Latin America remains an urgent need in the face of the digital revolution underway.

Hokuto Nakagawa:
Hello, Mr. Alejandro Solano. Okay, then Miss Adriana Labadini, can you hear me? Yes, I can hear you well. Yeah, I can hear you too. Okay, thank you. So could you show your camera? Okay, we can see you. Thank you. Mr. Alejandro Solano, can you hear me? Yes, I can hear you. Okay, I can hear you too. Thank you. Could you turn on your camera? Okay, I can see you. Thank you. Okay.

Verena Weber:
So with this, we’re very pleased to start this workshop on financing broadband networks of the future. So good morning, good afternoon, good evening, everyone. Hello to the participants in the room. As I said, don’t be shy, join us at the table, participate in the discussion. Hello to all the people connected online. You know, thanks for being with us for this workshop. So basically, I want to introduce my colleague, Hokuto, and the colleague, Max, they’re joining online. So they are really behind the organization of this panel. So I would like to thank you beforehand. Now, without further ado, I’ll provide, you know, quickly, like, the floor, like, give you some remarks about what we’re here for today. We’ll then introduce our panelists and hopefully have a very interesting discussion. So, I mean, the IGF is probably… the best way to show that, you know, I think we all agree that, you know, without connectivity you can’t have the digital transformation of our economies and societies. And I think there is really wide agreement, not only in this conference, but, you know, also worldwide. So if we all agree, then really the question is, you know, how do we make sure that we have ubiquitous, high-level connectivity at affordable prices, so that everyone can participate in this digital transformation? So the question is, you know, how can we make sure we have enough funding that goes into broadband networks everywhere in the world? So that means the amount of funding that we’re putting in the networks today will basically define the quality of service we’re getting today and tomorrow. It will define where we’re getting the service. It will define the coverage. So this is something, you know, which we can’t do without it. Now, at the OECD, we’ve started to look a bit at this question, you know, like if we look at investments in broadband networks, how can we quantify that? And what we discovered is that there are actually a lot of players in the ecosystem that have a lot to say. I mean, starting with the communication operators, and we have one connected online today. I mean, they are taking obviously the heavy lifting of investments. But then, you know, we see that they’re obviously very important other groups. So we see that a lot of government funding these days is getting into broadband, in particular in rural and remote areas. So we have important funds that are currently deployed in the United States to bridge coverage gaps. In the recovery packages that we see all around the world, including in Europe, a lot of funds are going broadband. So it is a different source of financing, but it’s also helping to extend connectivity. Then obviously we have the tech companies that are investing quite a bit on their side and we’ll hear more about it in a second. And we have new players. So we have pension funds, we have private equity that invests a lot in wholesale access networks. So we’re seeing this in Germany, we’re seeing this in Latin America. So again, an additional player. So basically, you know, so what we want to do in this workshop is take a holistic approach. Hear, you know, from the different players how we can ensure that, you know, enough investments go into broadband infrastructure. And without further ado, I’m very privileged to have impressive and high-level speakers in this panel. So I’ll start with Ms. Agne Wajcicki-Ciucci. I trained, so Deputy Minister of Transport and Communication of the Republic of Lithuania. Welcome to the panel. We are having Mrs. Maki Takahashi with us. She is a Principal Deputy Director of the Telecommunications Policy Division, Telecommunications Business Department of the Ministry of Internal Affairs and Communications, MIC of Japan. Then we have joining us online Mr. Alejandro Solano Diaz, who is the CFO of Onet Fibra Colombia. Equally online we have Adriana Labardini joining us from the Association for Progressive Communications Policy and Regulation, and who is the Coordinator for Regulation in LAC for Rizomatica IPC. And we have Mr. Kojo Boyeci, who is the Vice President of Public Policy for Africa, Middle East and Turkey from META. So to kick off the discussion, I’d like to ask all the panelists an introductory question. So what is your view, what is the organisation, you know, the view of the organisation you’re representing currently here on investing in broadband networks and so how are you basically supporting the rollout of broadband networks? And I’d like to start with Maki, please.

Maki Takahashi:
Hi, this is Maki Takahashi from the Ministry of Internal Affairs and Communication in Japan and thank you very much for inviting me today. And so I’d like to start my intervention by highlighting the importance of the broadband connectivity. It’s universal all over the world and so the government of each country play an important role but that role differs depending on the situation of the countries. And so my country in Japan, I could say high quality broadband has already prepared. For example, for fixed broadband, 99.8% population coverage and for 5G, 93.2% of the population coverage. And then so our current challenge is to promote investment to the areas where investment wouldn’t come naturally. And to support or spur the investment to these areas, for us, setting up clear goal is important. And so MIC set up the National Broadband Connectivity Plan last year and also revised this year to set up a clear goal and also measures to be taken. For example, under this plan, we will aim for fixed broadband, 99.9% of the coverage. It’s only like 0.1% coverage difference and it’s really, really hard part. And also for 5G, 95 per cent by the end of the fiscal year 2025 and 99 per cent by the end of the fiscal year 2030. And not only this land broadband, for us like a country like mine, Japan, surrounded by sea and also unfortunately faces a lot of natural disaster, a lot of land broadband infrastructure, this plan covers also submarine cable and also NTN, non-terrestrial network. And so, for example, the submarine cable, due to the geographical future, landing station concentrate on the Pacific Ocean side, and so we will support the companies who invest landing station on the Japan Sea side. And also for the non-terrestrial network, because it’s a new technology, it’s starting, and so we will plan, build our intention to support demonstrative experiment to the NTN, and also we will now working on the legislative changes for the NTN to support in-source introduction.

Verena Weber:
Thank you very much for those impressive numbers from Japan. Deputy Minister Agne, what do you think?

Agnė Vaiciukevičiūtė:
So hello everyone, I’m a deputy minister from Lithuania, and under my portfolio there is all the communications related questions, so thank you very much for OECD and Japan for inviting us and creating this opportunity to be a part of this discussion. So I think my colleague mentioned some very important aspects, it’s really important, you know, on the government and on the country itself. of what is the status quo and where we are coming from. So I do believe that Lithuanian case is a very good case of public and private sectors collaboration. And I think that this is a key in order to roll out broadband networks and to achieve the connectivity goals. The role of Lithuanian government, I think, should be more focused on legal and regulatory ecosystem, on creating this ecosystem, which could bring the value for all, while private sectors should complement the government’s efforts. And just to brag a little bit about Lithuanian numbers as well, we do have very high numbers in the rollout of fixed, very high capacity network at the moment, which exceeds European Union level, as well as fiber to the premises, which really exceeds the EU average level. And with the 5G, the coverage is almost the same as in Japan. So I’m really proud. It’s around 90% of population is already covered. We achieved it within the very close cooperation with operators just recently, last year. And we hope we will take a step forward in the near future. Now we’re mainly focusing on enabling access to gigabit broadband infrastructure. So our idea is to cover all main digitally sensitive users within the next five years. And we already allocated the funds from the government to do so. So thank you very much. And maybe later on, we’ll be able to elaborate a little bit more.

Verena Weber:
Thank you very much. So we heard from, I would say, two of our OECD leaders when it comes to fiber penetration. So I’d like to turn to Adriana. So we heard a lot from the government perspective. Adriana. what’s your take, what’s the role of civil society, you know, in ensuring that enough investment goes into broadband networks? Thank you, Verena, and thank the OECD for inviting

Adriana Labardini:
APC through me and Carlos Rey, who’s also there, co-lead of our local networks program. Well, APC and its partner organization, Resomatica, have worked for six years, have been supporting the local networks program in three regions of the global south, and have been supporting many communities in 22 countries, under the understanding that the digital divide is not a problem the market alone will solve, and that we need to do things differently to really expedite the closure of the digital divide, especially now after the pandemic lessons, and the urgency to act and invest more sustainably with more green finance at the local level. For instance, APC has mapped, for five years now, a baseline, baseline info to have data on the different community networks and other local networks around the global south, so that we know more about their operating models, their financial models, their CAPEX and OPEX, and ownership models. And more recently, APC, and I want to share this with the audience, has co-funded an in-depth study titled Financing Mechanisms for Locally-Owned Infrastructure, to raise awareness in the financial community of what is a community network, or a community-driven activity operator, what are their values, their course trends, and how to contribute to their sustainability. It is a practical tool, this study, for those who want to build networks where the market hasn’t, basically rural, remote and suburban areas, but also it’s a tool for funders and investors, caring about the planet, the environmental sustainability, and the social sustainability of these communities. It demonstrates how underserved communities can build their own internet infrastructure and take control of their digital futures, promote circular economies, and empower themselves through capacity building. Finally, APC, besides advocating for an enabling policy environment and capacity building, and has been done a lot of grant making for these infrastructures in many communities, it is also supporting a comparative study of the financial sustainability and socio-economic impacts of alternative digital infrastructure connectivity business models. This study will draw us much more information on all these different costs, which are much lower than large-scale operators that successfully operate in more urban areas. Thank you very much.

Verena Weber:
Thank you very much, Adriana. We heard how, basically, local networks are stepping into local communities. We will look forward to reading the report that you are currently preparing. So, let me turn to Kojo. So, Meta, me, particularly when thinking about that, but particularly if we think about the infrastructure and the, the role that Africa plays, that the support has I think an important role when it comes to infrastructure networks in Africa, so I would be really eager to hear more about what you are doing there.

Kojo Boakye:
Thanks so much. And thank you for having MEDa attend and participate in what I think is a really important discussion. I think it’s an issue close to my heart that I’ve worked on for now 20 years. Some of these discussions are new and innovative and feel fresh. Some of them feel slightly stale and old. It’s really, really nice to hear from the governments of both Japan and Lithuania about the targets they’ve reached. We are mindful, and I know this discussion will explore it, that we have a number of other goals to reach in terms of giving people inclusive access. And, you know, I think that’s an important point to make. I think it’s also important to think about the network investments that are important at the moment. So I think many people know or may not know about the investments we’ve made, not only in submarine cables, terrestrial fibre, CDNs, co-located caching and services of course, and a lot of that goes, for me, goes unspoken. So I think it’s important to think about the network investments we’ve made, not only in submarine cables, but also in other areas. Of course, some of you don’t know me and may question what impact are those investments having. For those of you who are interested in raw numbers, I can tell you that we have done some studies with analysis, Mason and RTI, who looked at the impact of just one cable that we’ve built that stretches from the U.S. to Spain and found that within a year of that cable going live, let’s say, that nearly nine billion, one trillion cablesactions would have been taken from that area. So that really speaks to the point where it makes me think about the importance of continuing to progress with embedding the cross-current investment, whether it’s child education, other areas we’ve identified and expanded to create activity. that we’re making, we have two more cables coming online in 2024 and 2027 that will respectively add $32 billion and $27 billion to the economies of the countries involved in those and why does that excite me? Verena said I’m going to speak about Africa only. These cables clearly aren’t for Africa, but when you look at the investment that we’ve made alongside partners in 2Africa, which will be the first cable to connect west to east or east to west via southern Africa, bringing 180 terabytes of capacity, connecting 33 countries in the region and through to Europe, you can understand why we and many of the governments and civil society organizations, I see my colleague in the background, as well as the communities, and the lady from APC spoke so eloquently about the impact that these infrastructures are having on communities, you can understand why we’re doing this. So I’m not going to wax lyrical about what else we’re doing as meta, but just a small snippet of what we’re doing to invest in networks. I’d like to leave you with. That’s okay, Verena.

Verena Weber:
Great. Thanks. And, yeah, we can’t wait to see these more, these two fiber cables, you know, coming to service. What was it, next year and then the year after? 2024 and then 2027.

Kojo Boakye:
But 2Africa is beginning to go live now, so anyone who hasn’t kept abreast of those developments, please do. Sorry. But 2Africa cable is beginning to land now, and that’s what we’re incredibly excited about. As I mentioned, it’s the redundancy that it will give the African continent, but also this additional capacity, this additional 180 terabytes of capacity that the continent will get, and we’re proud, and I’m not going to brag too much, to say that this is the longest submarine cable in the world. So I just want to stress, if you need more information on 2Africa, please come and see me or feel free to Google it.

Verena Weber:
Thanks so much, and I’m sorry to say, Alejandro, but we’re going to have to leave you now. but the pressure is up now for Latin America. So we’re turning to Alejandro. So Alejandro is the CFO of one of the wholesale companies I mentioned. So Alejandro, tell us a bit more what you’re doing, how you’re connecting the Colombians and what your experience has been so far.

Alejandro Solano Diaz:
Hi everyone. It’s a privilege to be here with you in this discussion. The neutrality of fiber optic infrastructure in the world is a growing trend. Example of this are the creation of companies such as FiberCup in Italy, HyperOptic in the UK, OpenDodge Fiber in the Netherlands, Mitronet in the US and UGG in Germany. Precisely after seeing these opportunities around fiber optic broadband networks and the huge potential of Latin American countries, KKR and Telefonica joined force to create a fully private-owned initiative of ConnectFiber Colombia, Chile and soon in Peru. In Colombia, we were born in January, 2022. And by the end of 2023, we will have invested approximately $240 million in network coverage and support systems. Similar amounts have been invested by our colleagues in Chile and soon in Peru. These investments planned are among the most relevant across Latin America. A proof of ConnectFiber’s commitment to develop fiber-to-the-home FDTH infrastructure to bridge the digital divide in the region and to enhance development opportunities for these countries and their communities. Colombia and Chile are currently investing in a monthly basis to expand the FDTH network coverage. Colombia has seen a network expansion of 175, measured by the numbers household covered. In January. 2022. And in Chile, Onetvira has grown to print approximately 40% over the initially acquired network. So basically, we are a neutral fiber optic network, the largest one in Colombia, and we promote the connectivity through our investment in fiber optics. Thank you.

Verena Weber:
Thank you so much. And this was, you know, really a speedy deployment that you’re having in Colombia and Chile. Congratulations on this one. So we heard, you know, the different perspective from different players. So we can see a lot is going on, right, by different players. And I think, you know, because this debate is currently going on in Europe. So it’s really important, you know, to really listen to all of the players and their role in infrastructure investment. Now, going back to the government, Maki, so, you know, are there some best practices that you could share? You know, what worked well in Japan, given that you have quite impressive connectivity numbers? And what are you doing next? Okay, thank you very much for the question.

Maki Takahashi:
And so as our approach, I’d like to highlight our four approaches which we’ve taken and I think are effective. And so as I already told, our challenge is to promote investment in rural areas. And first and second approach is for rural areas. And so first approach is subsidy. And in my country, the main player of the investment is carriers and also local governments. And for carriers, it’s hard to invest in rural areas, and for local governments, the lack of budget. And so government and the MIC support infrastructure deployment for fixed broadband, two-thirds of the deployment cost for the local government, and half for the private companies. And we also have the similar subsidy scheme for the mobile broadband for base station and backward network infrastructure. And the second approach is legal arrangement. And to keep the better quality of the broadband, actually maintenance is as important as deployment. So for us, we changed telecommunication business law this year to introduce a universal service scheme for broadband. And under this scheme, broadband providers, mobile and FIX, they set up a fund to support broadband providers for the very rural areas to maintain their infrastructure. And I hope that this scheme help them keeping the investment in the rural areas. And looking at the parts, I could say third and fourth approaches, third is competition policy and fourth is spectrum allocation processes. And talking about the competition policy, currently we have four MNOs in Japan and we have introduced asymmetric regulation to the carriers with higher shares. And so this intensify the competition between carriers and this is the big motivation for them to continuously invest their network for better connectivity to their customers. And talking about the spectrum allocation, at the time of the screening, we ask carriers or we require carriers to submit their coverage plan. for five years, and then they are obliged to submit periodically, and we check periodically. So this is another motivation for them to keep the investment. And I think these four measures collaboratively work well, and so I think this result re-hire our better broadband network coverage in my country. Thank you.

Verena Weber:
Thank you so much, Maki. So, as a Deputy Minister, you are both pointing out actually that the legal and regulatory framework and competition policy is really crucial to make this happen. I also like the nudge on spectrum and how you go about this. Vice Minister, what lessons can we learn from Lithuania? I mean, how do you go about rural and remote areas? Is wholesale also an issue that you’re looking at?

Agnė Vaiciukevičiūtė:
I think that, once again, I really enjoy being together with the Japanese colleagues. There are so many things in common from the government point of view. Obviously, where the competition exists, there is a competition, but when we speak about remote areas or rural areas, this is a key for us, for the government, to ensure equal access to digital opportunities and activities. And I would like to share a Lithuanian model. I think it’s quite unique and interesting. This model works for 18 years already in Lithuania. So the government has established a non-profit company which uses public funds and deploys broadband infrastructure in specifically rural areas. Nevertheless, the active infrastructure which is needed for the last mile must be deployed by private operators, because this non-profit company offers services only for the operators, but not the end users. So the concrete route of that network is negotiated in advance with operators. So everybody knows, you know, the rules of how it’s going to be built in the future. And what is really important maybe to mention that the prices for the wholesale services are based only on expenses. So there are about 40 operators which buy more than 5,800 units for wholesale services from this non-profit company and then provide services for the end users. So this is obviously very good for the market, for the operators. They really enjoy this kind of concept. And I think that we separated it 18 years ago in a very sophisticated manner, which helps us to also be one of the ones ahead in so many aspects of the penetration. So this model helps to attract private investments to the remote and rural areas, as I told, because the biggest part of the investment lies on the shoulders of the government, as it should be, because there is no economic viable model for them to go there. And the same price for the end users. So it helps also not to make it very expensive. I think the ultimate goal is the end users here, and to create equal rights for whatever place you’re living in. And I think that only a couple of countries have the same model. I think it works pretty well, and we’re not planning to change it in our future. And this is an example of Lithuania.

Verena Weber:
Thank you very much. So actually we heard about two very interesting wholesale models, both from Lithuania and also from Colombia, Chile, and Peru. And we also heard about your very, it seems, seamlessly cooperation between the public and the private sector. So now, if we add civil society to the game, Adriana, what would you say? I mean, what approaches can we craft as a multi-stakeholder community? So in your eyes, you know, what has worked? Or, you know, are there ideas we should put on the table to further extend connectivity?

Adriana Labardini:
Thank you, Verena. First, I would say what triggers this virtuous cycle is when you shift from an artificial scarcity system to one of abundance. And for many years in the telecommunications sector, we have maintained this scarcity. Scarcity to access spectrum. Scarcity to access backbone networks that, yes, have been built. We have tons of submarine cables in Africa and huge backbones in Peru and Colombia. But the prices are prohibited. So if there were, as OECD has recommended, much more open access policies to encourage a high volume of traffic uses networks, because backbone and backhaul is an important ingredient in the cost for a smaller operator. Sometimes it’s even expensive, this backhaul, for the large operators, even more for a local one. So that’s the cost of spectrum. Having spectrum assigned always, like in parcels for 20 years with very expensive licenses, and then nobody’s using it in rural. So that’s also creating a regulatory scarcity. Secondly, I would say that when it comes to the financial community, I think they deserve to to be, they are not obliged to know everything about local networks, about the values, the strengths and the models of community networks or cooperatives, municipal networks, et cetera. So we should be educating the financial community or development banks around local infrastructures, small scale operators, they obey to different logics and due to innovation, they do not need economies of scale so they can thrive and be sustainable. And through that education to new models and to recognize that this is in the 21st century, there is an expanded ecosystem of operators. It’s no longer the times of one incumbent or two. We have operators of different flavors, wireless, wired, large, small, fiber, using wifi, cooperatives, nonprofit community networks, large operators, et cetera. And so I think this financial community should unlock grants and sub-commercial capital to community connectivity providers that are financially mature and understand that first you receive a grant, then you receive a subsidy from USF funding and then you probably can evolve to have equity. And this would benefit not only the local rural communities but a whole country because it would burst local economies and also burst anti-global warming and unsustainable infrastructures. And finally, I would say that also, of course, it is important for communities to have more financial. and management education, civil society, APC Risomatica, has put a huge investment in capacity building, forming indigenous technical operators, I mean, technical capacity building, managerial capacity building for community networks in all the global south. And finally, I would say now that the financial community at the global level and also at the national level is playing a key role in sustainable finance that is in green capital under ESG standards, I think it would be the perfect timing to look at local development models, local solar energy, local telecom networks, meaning community networks, that are more eco-friendly and that they could and have much lesser costs and environmental impact. So in this new expanded ecosystem of players and operators, I think impact investors funds should also look at this non-for-profit players, just as OECD has recognized them and recommended them when there’s market failures, ITU has recommended that states look at and promote with an enabling environment this community players, and so has the OAS through CITEL and some development banks of like CAF and IADB. Thank you. Thank you, Adriana, and absolutely, and we actually have

Verena Weber:
more important community players in the room at the table with us today as well. So, Kojo, Adriana mentioned scarcity in backhaul and backbone. Can you help?

Kojo Boakye:
I believe we’re already helping. Actually, it’s been good to hear how many people have spoken about open access networks and the need for us to do that, and the need for backhaul, whether financed by government or the private sector, in order to reduce the cost or the end cost to consumers. Again, I could wax lyrical about our efforts. All our work, all the investments we’ve made in places like Democratic Republic of Congo, Uganda, South Africa, Nigeria, have all been done on an open access basis, enabling any operator who wishes to, to connect and to provide those services and hopefully reduce the cost of those services in the final mile. But I have to admit, sitting here and hearing not only Japan’s success over the years, amazing numbers to see 99.9% and the goal to get to 100% in the near future, as well as Lithuania’s, and having read the UN Broadband Commission’s recent report, which outlines that at least 95% of the world’s population can now access a broadband network, I think the investments that META continues to make in infrastructure are important, but just as important, and my friend from the APC touched on much of it, is how we attract people, how we get people to use the services. Affordability, and I know, again, I’ll embarrass her slightly, my friend Anika there, who works for the Global Digital Inclusion Partnership, on which I am a board member for True Transparency, continues to work on issues of affordability, as well as what else brings people, and I think META does a great job here of not only investing to create affordability and increase it, but then the other bits, how do we ensure creators are on platforms that attract people? And then, last but not least, and returning to the platform, how do we make sure that the internet is accessible to the people? How do we ensure that the internet or services are in particular languages? These are all parts that META are playing really important roles in. How do we then prioritize small-to-micro-sized businesses who are really prevalent in my region, Africa, Middle East, and Turkey? How do we get them on platform? How do we make sure that the internet is accessible to the people? How do we make sure that the people know it’s possible? And then, last but not least, and returning to the point, is how do we continue stimulating investment in networks and the networks at the last mile, those networks in the access gap? And I think that’s where META is playing, again, a fantastic role. I know I only have two minutes. I’m here for the next four days and very, very happy to discuss these issues with anybody that wants to speak to me.

Verena Weber:
Thank you, Alejandro. So, on the question of how do you stimulate investment in networks, so what’s the plan on Netfibra? Can you tell us a bit more about that?

Alejandro Solano Diaz:
Thank you. Yes, it’s important for the economy and the social development to have proper networks. So, in the telecommunication world, fiber to the home has become the standard for delivering such internet speeds directly to homes. However, it’s sometimes hampered by a lack of competition and a shortage of infrastructure. So, the open access network helps overcome these challenges by boosting the viability of FDH and for free competition in the sector and doing it in an efficient way. To promote investment, it is important to publicise the benefits of fiber-optic providers, such as the FDH. So, I think it’s important for us to promote the benefits of fiber-optic providers, such as the FDH. So, I think it’s important for us to promote the benefits of our company. This considered several key aspects, such connectivity, market rivalry, innovation, development and the positive impact they bring to the society. The growing popularity of open access networks has raised hopes for a more connected and competitive futures. Governments, regulators and industry stakeholders must recognize the potential of open access models and are currently taking steps to encourage their adoption. With the appearance of neutral networks, there is no need to deploy multiple networks, one on top of the other, all of different services providers to compete for customers. Instead, a single network is enough for many or maybe all the service providers to reach the markets. So, neutral networks bring about deployment and operation and maintenance efficiency to the model and will allow service providers to address their resources on customer service. By promoting open access networks, regulators can create a dynamic environment in which service providers compete on quality and price, resulting in better connectivity options for customers. This approach fosters innovation and drives the rapid development of FDH infrastructure, providing individuals and business with faster and more reliable internet access. So, this is basically what we are doing here in Colombia to deploy open access neutral, fiber neutral networks. Thank you.

Verena Weber:
Thank you very much, Alejandro. And so, what we’d like to do at the OECD is, we use the Internet Governance Forum to then bring all the ideas we gathered here back. to our member countries, to our next meetings, which are happening in November. And since we also want to leave a bit of time for discussion, I’d like to do a very short round among the panellists. So if you had to give me your top three in terms of priorities for governments and regulators, what’s next? What would those be? So maybe around 30 seconds each, and then we open the floor for discussion. Maki.

Maki Takahashi:
I will keep my intervention short, and actually I prepared only two priorities. So one priority is to support technological development and also develop our legal scheme in line with it. And for example, recently the companies developed virtual networks, but our current regulation is based on physical networks, and so we think that this kind of legal approach, the advance, is also important. And the second priority is, as Kozo mentioned, actually demand is really important. And so we need use cases, especially for 5G. And so 5G, actually I already said 90 per cent of coverage, but actually mainly using low and mid band, and not sub-6 and higher band, because it’s a use case. And so the MIC held a study group to discuss the use cases of 5G, and we talked about self-driving and also the drone usage, but still we need more discussion. And I hope that in the future we will see more innovative services which ultra-high broadband like 5G will bring. Thank you. I’m not sure it’s fully understood.

Verena Weber:
Perfect. Thank you so much. Deputy Minister, what’s your take?

Agnė Vaiciukevičiūtė:
Once again, very good insight from colleagues from Japan. Okay, now, sorry, so once again, several amazing points from Japan. I would just want to agree and to say what we are doing on the demand side in Lithuania. I think this is a crucial point that we’re creating this infrastructure. It costs a lot, but the use cases are not there yet. So we are working on the demand side as well, because I’m lucky, I’m a part of transport and communications ministry, so therefore we are a lot working on self-driving cars initiatives on drones from the legislative perspective, which is already in place in Lithuania. But also we created Sandbox, we dedicated more than 25 million for use cases on 5G. So we’re creating all the value chain to promote it, to see visibly what can be done with 5G. So it’s not only network itself, but really cases of usage. And I think at the end of this year, we’ll see large aid projects in different industries in Lithuania by testing 5G on different problems in the society. So I think this is very important. And the other thing, it’s also important to optimize our investments, as well as to fully revise the legal framework. What we cannot accept right now, that whatever we are planning, it takes two free years to do it. So basically all the frameworks need to be adjusted. If we want to deploy it really fast, if we want to have it in a couple of years, we need to move faster. So on one side, it’s… a complaint for the government, so for myself as well, that we need to work on better schemes. And it’s not only about optimising investments, but it’s also about minimising the periods between when the investments are dedicated. The whole deployment should be done also faster than we do it now. And of course, synergy with other utilities is absolutely necessary. When we’re changing the road, when we’re changing other communications within different infrastructure, we need to think about all the broadband communications as well. We have so many cases when one infrastructure is changed, but then the other is not added, and we have huge problems in a couple of years, so I think this is also very practical and crucial in order to move faster.

Verena Weber:
Thank you very much, Adriana. We already heard from you, you know, on financial education, etc. Anything more that you want to add to your wish list for governments? Adriana, could you hear us?

Adriana Labardini:
I couldn’t hear you. Could you say that again, please?

Verena Weber:
Yes, your top three wish lists for policy makers. You already mentioned a couple of points, you know, is there anything you would like to add to this wish list?

Adriana Labardini:
Thank you very much. Yes, of course. I think the networks need an enabling environment, you know, a simple licensing regime that is not a barrier, that it’s a simple registration. need also this affordable access to spectrum and to backhoe. And there are many ways to achieve that. They also need really good open data. We need to know where any infrastructure is available in rural areas, whether it’s a tower, a roof, an IXP, a point of presence, whatever we need granular open data maps in all the non-urban areas, whereas not every country has all these good geographic information systems. We also need huge re-engineering for universal service funds, because under this new era, well, the beneficiaries of those funds could be these local operators, both for CAPEX, for infrastructure, for capacity building programs. And also, and I’m sorry I didn’t mention this before, all these policies for inclusion should have a gender perspective. We are in Brazil, for instance, we recommended that there’s some funding for women-led initiatives, women participating actively in community networks in rural areas, in the design or operation, engineering, or installation. So you can also promote gender equality through this funding for community networks or local networks where women participate. And so this holistic approach enables to lower barriers and, of course, a good spectrum policy of spectrum sharing. because there’s not more inefficient spectrum than that one that is not used. So use it or share it policy for spectrum and for backbone networks would be great. Thank you.

Verena Weber:
Thank you very much Adriana. And actually we have a new project at the OECD where we’re looking into mapping and how to improve geographical mapping at more granular basis because we’re quite good doing this at a national level but then when it comes down to a remote area, we’re less good. So the list is getting quite long. Kojo, if you have your wish list for the governments, what would that be?

Kojo Boakye:
I think many of those things have been, many of the things that would be on my wish list have been mentioned already. A quick thing on the mapping, I will say that META has created a number of open data if you want to call it that, but open access maps that have been shared with both the World Bank and the UN that are probably the most sophisticated and in-depth population maps that one can find which enable network planning. We’ve heard about tax spectrum, licensing, the need for gender equality or gender view on things but I would add youth and people with disabilities to that as well. All of those marginalized groups need to be looked at. But because we’re only now two and I’m already over my 30 seconds, I’d probably go for number one, consultation, actually I’ll go for three. I’ll go for number one, consultation, and people say we do consult but the depth of consultation and the predictability of that consultation with given timelines, all stakeholders involved to me is incredibly important. I think what stems from that consultation is a predictability that the private sector need most of the time. And that predictability can go two ways. It can go one way which is policies and regulations that we don’t like but we can actually work with or another way which is policy and regulation that we do like and reflects our point of views that we’re even in a better place to work with which is. people may ask, what’s my third point? My third point is innovation. And I think some of my colleagues touched on it, whether it’s driverless cars or whatever else. The one concern I have is that we have amazing opportunities in front of us that are exciting a lot of people. And you’ll be unsurprised when I say the metaverse, artificial intelligence, which I think a number of you are focused on. And my plea to governments in my region is not to stifle innovation, because I believe that these technologies, particularly artificial intelligence, and one eye on the sustainable development goals offer us a tremendous opportunity. And my call for governments is not to stifle innovation in any way, or at least try not to, it’s difficult, but try not to. Thank you.

Verena Weber:
Thank you very much. And with that thought on innovation, Alejandro, anything you would like to add on our wishlist for governments?

Alejandro Solano Diaz:
Thank you, Verena. Yes. I think there is a huge opportunity to strengthen connectivity programs in several Latin American countries. I think that the first one is, it’s important for policymakers to understand that expanding connectivity goes beyond solving a considerable gap in terms of digital inclusion or access. Quality internet access represents a key element in the economic growth of countries, and additionally, open new possibility for development in areas such as education, health, government, and transportation. On the other hand, it is important that they also understand and make use of the different technologies that can extend connectivity to most people, and which are the best technologies considering the characteristics of the location they need to reach. There is no such thing as same size fit all. in regard of broadband technologies for access. In the case of FDTH neutral networks, it is important that regulators understand the role of our network plays in breaking paradigms in the traditional way of deploying telecommunication networks in Colombia and in any country in the world. It is important that everyone, not only policymakers understand that facilitating the use of existing infrastructure reduce cost and also speed up deployment and minimize the investments cost, ultimately benefiting communities since it allows them a simple and agile access to service and technologies. Thank you.

Verena Weber:
Thank you very much. And with this, we have a few minutes left. So I would like to open the floor for questions and comments. I see there are no questions online so far. Do I have questions in the room? Please, Eric.

Audience:
I think you need to turn it on. Okay. Yeah, perfect. Thank you. All the experiences are very interesting. And I’d like to know a bit more about, you mentioned, I’m thinking in Lithuania that has a government company specifically for rural areas. Could you talk a bit more about that? And also from the representative of Japan, it would be very interesting to say that there is a fund that it’s for maintaining rural networks. And if you could tell us more about how does that work as well. Thank you.

Agnė Vaiciukevičiūtė:
Yeah, so. Okay, so finally, somehow we will learn to use it. Yeah, so 18 years ago, when Lithuania regained its independence, we started to think how we’re going to, you know, deploy all the broadband, and the idea was very simple. We need to separate operators and government investments, because we understood that still the majority will be from the government, because in the end, users, the last mile should be and must be covered by operators. So this non-profit company, under our ministry actually, under my supervision at the moment, was created, and it works very successfully. It does not compete with operators. They work in line on the decisions I had, where should be the broadband, you know, deployed. Everybody knows in advance plans, each other, they coordinate it, and then everybody knows where their input is needed. So basically, when the majority broadband to the rural area is made, the last mile is, you know, corresponding on the right timing to finally reach and connect that rural area. Yeah, so this is basically what we’re doing now, and all the investments on European level, we have EU investments, we have RF, different investments, so everything that’s dedicated for the digital component, from the government side, goes through this non-profit organization, to the building of towers now, to all the components necessary to cover the whole country, and of course, we work a lot on the legislation, not only how to cover with 5G, but obviously the density is the most important part, so we did not touch upon this part, but I think this is a very interesting part as well.

Maki Takahashi:
Thank you very much for your question. And so the universal service system I mentioned is universal service system for the broadband. And it is also similar to the universal phone system to the fixed telephone. And so under this scheme, broadband fixed and mobile broadband providers have to pay certain amounts. And that amount is decided by the number of the line which they have. For example, two yen or three yen for each line. And so each provider have to pay their subscriber’s number and also the certain yen. And they have to pay that amount of money to the fund. And that fund collect all the money and allocate money to the provider, fixed broadband provider which invest to the rural areas. And that money is for maintaining their infrastructure cost.

Verena Weber:
Thank you very much. Do we have one last final question before we wrap up that panel? I see none. So with this, I would really like to thank our speakers for the very interactive discussion. So we learned a lot on the different models. Thank you. On the different models, how we can jointly invest in infrastructure to go to the next level, what we haven’t achieved yet. If you have any comments for us, please don’t hesitate to reach out to us. And I would really like to thank the team who organized that session. Thank you, Hokuto. Thank you, Max. I would also like to thank all the technical team. They’re sitting there in the background. We’re our timekeeper and made sure that this hybrid setting, which is not always easy, ran perfectly. Thank you so much. Have a great day, Zero. Bye-bye.