Broadband from Space! Can it close the Digital Divide? | IGF 2023 WS #468

Berna Gur

Recent advancements in space-based technologies, particularly megaconstellations like Starlink, have emerged as a promising solution for providing broadband services on a global scale. These advancements have significantly improved the capabilities of space-based technologies, making it feasible to deliver high-speed internet connectivity to even the most remote areas worldwide. Starlink, a megaconstellation consisting of thousands of small satellites, has the potential to revolutionize internet access by providing global coverage.

The global coordination of frequency spectrum is crucial for ensuring uninterrupted provision of all wireless services. The frequency spectrum is a limited natural resource that must be carefully managed to avoid interference and disruption of various wireless services. The International Telecommunications Union (ITU) plays a vital role in regulating the global coordination of frequency spectrum. It ensures that the allocation and usage of frequency spectrum are properly coordinated to prevent any conflicts or disruptions.

To fully leverage the benefits of space-based technologies and ensure effective implementation, countries need to re-evaluate and update their domestic regulations related to licensing and authorising satellite broadband services. Laws and regulations play a crucial role in the successful integration of new technological advancements. Therefore, countries must adjust their regulations according to the unique circumstances and requirements presented by space-based technologies. By doing so, they can create a conducive environment for the deployment of satellite broadband services and facilitate their widespread adoption.

Furthermore, active participation in international decision-making processes, such as the ITU and the UN Committee on Peaceful Uses of Outer Space, is essential. Engaging in these forums allows countries to have a voice and contribute to the development of policies and regulations that govern space-based technologies. Active participation enhances the chances of achieving desired outcomes and ensures that countries’ perspectives and interests are well-represented. Moreover, awareness of international space law is crucial for making informed decisions and effectively navigating the complex landscape of space-based technologies.

It is important to note that the provision of satellite services in a specific country is subject to that country’s laws and regulations. These laws, often referred to as landing rights, determine the terms and conditions under which satellite services can operate within a country. Each country has the autonomy to decide its own regulations for satellite services, taking into account its unique needs and priorities.

In conclusion, recent advancements in space-based technologies, such as megaconstellations like Starlink, offer a promising solution for providing broadband services globally. To fully harness the potential of these technologies, countries need to re-evaluate and update their domestic regulations related to licensing and authorising satellite broadband services. Active participation in international decision-making processes, such as the ITU and the UN Committee on Peaceful Uses of Outer Space, is crucial for shaping policies and regulations that support the effective deployment of these technologies. Additionally, it is important for countries to be aware of international space law and its implications to make informed decisions. By doing so, countries can unlock the benefits of space-based technologies and ensure an uninterrupted provision of wireless services on a global scale.

Stephen Weiber

Libraries have emerged as vital institutions at the intersection of digital connectivity and meaningful impact. Despite being rooted in the pre-digital era, they have evolved to embrace the transformative power of technology. Libraries now incorporate robotics, 3D printing, and Starlink connections, enabling individuals to engage with cutting-edge innovations.

While libraries provide essential services, their focus extends beyond mere provision. Instead, libraries seek to make a tangible difference in their communities. They are conscious of their role in fostering education and actively contribute to achieving Sustainable Development Goal 4: Quality Education. By offering access to technology and knowledge resources, libraries empower individuals to enhance their skills and pursue lifelong learning.

Moreover, libraries contribute to Sustainable Development Goal 9: Industry, Innovation, and Infrastructure. They recognize the significance of meaningful connectivity and its impact on individuals’ lives. Libraries have long understood the transformative potential of the internet and have diligently worked towards improving people’s lives within the local context. Their success lies not just in the availability of digital infrastructure but in the measurable improvement in the quality of life for individuals accessing these resources.

Despite the rise of digital infrastructures, libraries continue to hold distinct advantages. Contrary to the assumption that internet cafes and telecenters would replace libraries, this has not been the case. Libraries offer unique value propositions that set them apart. They go beyond providing connectivity by offering diverse avenues for engagement, learning, and social interaction. Libraries serve as vibrant community hubs and spaces that foster a sense of belonging.

In conclusion, libraries are indispensable in bridging the gap between digital connectivity and meaningful impact. Their evolution has enabled them to integrate technology and cater to the changing needs of their communities. Libraries are not simply service providers; they are catalysts for transformation, driving positive change, and improving lives. With their ongoing commitment to innovation and a community-centric approach, libraries will continue to be vital pillars in the digital age.

Dan York

The use of Low Earth Orbit (LEO) satellites for high-speed, low-latency internet connectivity, particularly in the context of video communications, is seen as a positive development. LEO satellites operate at a height of less than 2,000 km, enabling quick packet transfers and offering lower latency times compared to geosynchronous satellites. Notably, SpaceX’s Starlink project leverages LEO satellites, further supporting the viability and potential of this technology.

However, one of the major challenges currently faced is the large-scale launch of LEO satellites. SpaceX has been able to launch seven rockets each month, but there is uncertainty whether smaller launch providers can operate at this scale. Overcoming this challenge is crucial for the successful implementation of LEO satellite technology.

Critical questions are also being raised regarding the use of LEO satellites for global internet coverage. Technical feasibility, environmental impact, and effects on astronomy are all areas of concern. The environmental impact of satellites, both during their launch and disposal in the upper atmosphere, remains unclear. Additionally, large satellite constellations may cause issues for astronomical observations. These concerns highlight the need for careful examination and consideration of the impact and trade-offs associated with using LEO satellites for global connectivity.

While new connectivity options are emerging, such as OneWeb and Amazon’s plans for global coverage, at present, Starlink remains the only option for this kind of high-speed, low-latency connectivity. The expansion of these connectivity solutions presents complex challenges due to legal and regulatory considerations. Each country has its own regulatory rules, and providers need to negotiate with each country’s regulators. Furthermore, conflicting frequency usage can prevent some countries from utilizing these systems. The deployment of these solutions requires cooperation and interoperability among different space-based providers to ensure a seamless and efficient global coverage.

Despite these complexities, there is support for exploring emerging technologies in the field of connectivity. Dan, who supports the exploration of emerging technologies, believes that despite the challenges, the benefits provided by LEO satellites and other technologies outweigh the difficulties encountered.

LEO deployment is viewed as critical because with proper permissions and power, it can be quickly set up anywhere, making it highly adaptable. Additionally, LEO connectivity is seen as complementary to existing infrastructure and can help build digital skills until terrestrial connectivity reaches a particular area.

Concerns are being raised about the environmental and carbon costs associated with launching systems for global connectivity. A recent paper analyzing the carbon costs of launches highlights the trade-off between carbon cost and global connectivity. The sustainability and control of LEO constellations, mainly run by commercial entities owned by billionaires, are also being questioned. The need for continuous satellite launches to maintain the constellations raises concerns about the long-term sustainability of this approach.

In conclusion, the use of LEO satellites for high-speed, low-latency internet connectivity has the potential to revolutionize global connectivity. However, challenges related to large-scale launch, technical feasibility, environmental impact, and legal considerations must be carefully addressed. Cooperation and interoperability among space-based providers are key factors for success. Despite concerns about the environmental and carbon costs, there is support for exploring emerging technologies in this field. It is critical to study and understand the opportunities and trade-offs associated with these technologies to ensure their responsible and sustainable implementation.

Moderator

The discussion highlighted the potential of satellite technology, specifically low-Earth orbit satellites like Starlink, in bridging the digital divide and providing global broadband services. These satellites are capable of connecting anyone, anywhere with high-performance, robust broadband, which has the potential to close the digital divide. This new era of satellite communications has been seen as a game changer, particularly in regions where internet access is limited or non-existent.

However, while satellite technology offers many benefits, there are concerns that need to be addressed. One of the main concerns is the high cost of satellite internet. The cost of using services like Starlink can be prohibitive for certain communities, making it challenging for them to adopt this technology. Additionally, questions have been raised about the environmental impact of satellite systems. Researchers have expressed concerns about the sustainability of Starlink and the potential impact of launching thousands of satellites.

Another issue that emerged from the discussion is the potential misuse of satellite technology. In the case of Starlink in Brazil, it was revealed that the service was being used to support illegal activities such as gold mining and drug trafficking, which goes against its original intent of providing connectivity to remote schools. This highlights the importance of ensuring accountability and regulation of satellite activity.

Libraries were also mentioned as important community support centers that can play a role in bridging the digital divide. They can offer a range of value-adding services and help localize internet usage. Libraries have the potential to act as public interest locations within communities, and examples such as internet backpacks in Ghana utilizing libraries as centers for bringing people online were mentioned. Additionally, libraries can offer a variety of services, beyond just connectivity, and can act as a bridge from the availability of digital tools to their impact, achieving the desired change.

Throughout the discussion, it became apparent that monitoring and regulating satellite activity is essential. This includes tracking the advancements and issues with satellite technology, such as space junk and potential disruptions to astronomy. The audience emphasized the need for better coordination among customer countries for choosing satellite internet providers and ensuring a robust monitoring system.

In conclusion, satellite technology, particularly low-Earth orbit satellites like Starlink, has the potential to bridge the digital divide and provide global broadband services. However, there are challenges such as high costs, environmental impact, and potential misuse that need to be addressed. Libraries can also play a significant role in supporting communities and bridging the digital divide. It is crucial to monitor and regulate satellite activity to ensure accountability, better control, and informed public debates.

Nkem Osuigwe

Starlink Internet has revolutionised libraries in Nigeria, with its implementation in five urban areas including Lagos, Abuja, and Kaduna. This game-changing move has attracted a new audience to these libraries, thanks to the provision of fast, stable, and reliable internet services. Particularly, open knowledge enthusiasts and those interested in Open Educational Resources (OER) have greatly benefited from this influential addition.

The introduction of Starlink Internet has significantly enhanced the efficiency of users’ work within the libraries. Users have reported faster and more efficient work, thanks to the stable internet connection. This positive feedback highlights the immense impact of the fast internet provided by Starlink, which simplifies various online activities, including translation work on open platforms. Users have noticed that the internet does not slow down during use, making the translation process smoother and enhancing overall productivity.

Despite the notable advantages, several challenges need to be addressed to further develop and improve Starlink’s internet services. One major challenge is the weak signals experienced beyond a specific radius from the libraries, limiting the accessibility of the internet service. Additionally, the service becomes unavailable during power outages, further hindering consistent and uninterrupted internet access. Moreover, the limited operating hours of the libraries pose a constraint for individuals seeking to utilise the service outside of the designated time frame.

To tackle these challenges and improve the service, it is crucial to identify and study the usage trends and user demographics of the Starlink Internet service. Gaining a comprehensive understanding of users, including their age range, specific internet usage patterns, and overall internet needs, will enable service providers to enhance the service in a more targeted manner. Moreover, investigating the speed of the internet and potential drop points throughout the day is important. User feedback also plays a vital role in gathering insights and suggestions for improving the service.

In conclusion, the introduction of Starlink Internet in Nigerian libraries has had a significant positive impact. The fast and reliable internet connection has attracted new users, particularly those interested in open knowledge and OER. However, challenges such as weak signals, service unavailability during power outages, and limited operating hours need to be addressed. Therefore, identifying user demographics, studying usage patterns, and obtaining user feedback are critical steps toward enhancing the service and expanding its application.

Audience

The analysis focuses on two key areas of satellite internet: Leo Satellite Internet and Starlink. Leo Satellite Internet is seen as an essential solution to closing the growing digital divide. It allows for faster deployment compared to terrestrial or mobile infrastructure, making it an effective means of bridging the gap in internet access. However, concerns arise regarding the longevity and selection of Leo Satellite Internet service providers. Countries need to invest in hardware and establish institutions to support their services. The analysis suggests that countries should improve coordination to negotiate better conditions with Leo Satellite Internet providers and enhance their power as consumers.

Leo Satellite Internet’s ease of deployment is highlighted as an advantage. The Leo dish only requires power for providing internet access and can be quickly deployed anywhere. It can also help people develop digital skills and increase internet usage, which has positive implications for education and innovation.

However, concerns are raised about the simultaneous development of multiple infrastructures. Companies like SpaceX, OneWeb, and Amazon’s Kuiper are building their own systems, which lack cooperation and interoperability. It is suggested that more collaboration and standardization are needed to address efficiency and sustainability concerns.

The analysis indicates uncertainty regarding the use of Starlink for commercial or community networks. The rules and regulations surrounding Starlink’s licenses and reselling are unclear, causing uncertainty for potential users interested in wider network deployment.

Environmental and financial sustainability are also concerns. The current business model of Starlink, which requires renewing satellites every five years, raises environmental and economic concerns. The long-term environmental impacts of this process are worrisome, considering the urgent need for sustainable consumption and production. Additionally, doubts are expressed regarding the economic feasibility of Starlink’s large-scale satellite launches.

There is also concern about the regulation and accountability of satellite operators. The potential for individuals or entities to manipulate satellite services raises concerns about their misuse or exploitation.

Measurement Lab is mentioned as a valuable resource for monitoring internet performance, including satellite performance. It measures aspects such as interconnection points, speed, and quality of internet globally, providing the largest public dataset on internet performance.

Furthermore, doubts are raised about Starlink’s ability to effectively close the digital divide due to high costs. The unit costs of Starlink range from 150 to 200 watts, with a capital expenditure of 300 to 600 US dollars. Affordability and the ability of individuals and communities to sustain recurring payments for internet access are concerns.

The analysis also highlights the misuse of Starlink infrastructure to support illegal activities in the Amazon region, negatively affecting indigenous communities. Additionally, the unfulfilled promise of Starlink providing internet connectivity to schools in the Amazon region raises doubts about the company’s commitment to addressing educational needs in underserved areas.

In summary, the analysis provides an overview of the advantages, concerns, and uncertainties related to Leo Satellite Internet and Starlink. Leo Satellite Internet shows promise in bridging the digital divide with its fast deployment and potential for improving digital skills. However, concerns exist regarding the selection and longevity of service providers. Uncertainties also surround the use of Starlink for wider networks, environmental and financial sustainability, regulation and accountability, and the company’s commitment to fulfilling promises. Careful consideration and comprehensive planning are necessary for the development and deployment of satellite internet systems to ensure equitable and sustainable access to digital resources.

Moderator:
All right, are we good? Okay, we’re live. Good morning, afternoon, evening to everyone who’s here or in person or online. This is workshop 468, broadband from space, can it close the digital divide? That’s our question. The setup for this is the idea that we’ve entered a new era of satellite communications. They’re not new satellites, they’ve been around for a long time. But types of satellites that have new capabilities, especially in low Earth orbit, we’ll hear about that shortly, and the possibility of satellites in multiple orbits coordinating to create new kinds of services. My name is Don Means, I’m director of the Gigabit Libraries Network. Each of our speakers will introduce themselves. Our time is short today, so we’re going to try to get through this pretty quickly and have time for open discussion. I just wanted to make a couple of points in the beginning here about barriers to adoption. The question that we’re posing here is, can satellites actually close the digital divide? Can they contribute to the solution to this longstanding problem that we’ve had? The reason we’ve had this problem… is just the basic economics of infrastructure that says the farther away you are from the core of any network, the more expensive it is to reach you, and you probably have less money to boot. So that’s why they’re still not participating in the global digital conversation. We’ve identified these three barriers as availability, affordability, and usability. So affordability, of course, this is a difficult question if you approach from the standpoint of how much can a family afford to spend every month for access. It depends on how the value is set. What can they gain from that? Does it change their economic calculation in the first place? Like you buy a car because without the job, that kind of a thing. Usability is the most comprehensive or largest kind of topic here because it covers everything from skills to devices to an environment, but it’s absolutely critical to adoption. Availability is slightly different because if you don’t have availability, then affordability and usability are moot questions. So that’s what’s interesting about satellites, especially low-Earth orbit satellites, is they can connect anyone, anywhere, given that they’re great, with high-performance robust broadband, low latency, 100 megabit connections. There are lots of issues around this related to, well, I’m not going to get into all those, but there are. Hopefully we’ll get into those. So the goal here, at least from Gigabit Library’s network standpoint, is this is a real opportunity to connect every community. Now this is not connect every person or every household. That’s a dream, but it’s a reality that we could set up in every community. If we come up with a number, it’s 100,000, some number of communities, neighborhoods or small communities everywhere, that’s doable. And what do you have with that? What do you have with this community network that is basically no fee or low fee? Well, those are questions. But for us, this is a baseline standard functionality to allow virtually everyone access, even if it’s not everything that everybody wants. It’s something that is there for everybody. So we’re going to hear more about what that means and what are the implications of that and how the technology is built from our next speaker, who is Dan York with the Internet Society. Dan, welcome. Dan is also the co-coordinator of the session. Dan?

Dan York:
Thank you, John. Welcome to everybody. I am delighted that we’re having this session, having this conversation. You should now be able to see my screen, correct? Okay. So my role here is to talk a bit about the technology and to help us understand this as we look at this discussion and this debate. As Don mentioned, satellites are not new for Internet access. We’ve had them for satellites that are in the geosynchronous or geostationary. And those are ones that are way out at 36,000 kilometers. They have the capability that they can basically be parked over one part of the earth. And you can have basically three of them and be able to get worldwide global connectivity. The challenge is they’re expensive. They’re typically the size of a large bus. They take years to create, millions upon millions of dollars. And they’re launched out into that distant orbit, which is great. It has provided Internet access all around the world. long time for a packet to go from the earth out to that satellite and back. Networking terms, we talk about latency or the lag, the amount of delay, and that can be 600, 700 milliseconds, even a second. And that’s, that would be impossible for me to come in over a, this zoom connection. I could not do that. So the exciting part about why we’re here is this new generation of satellites that are, that operate low earth orbit, which is the opposite side of that, that is down underneath 2000 medium earth orbit, which is in between those two areas. And there are a couple of solutions. There’s one company, SES, which operates a network of satellites and there you can have fewer. You can only need maybe 11 or 20 satellites, but they’re in motion and they have longer latency times, but the excitement is all down in Leo’s because now we have things that can have very quick acts, low latency. So you can have maybe 40 milliseconds, 50 milliseconds, which is well within the range of things like video communication and pieces like that. The challenge is that you need more satellites. And so our picture, as we start to grow that in a little bit, the components, when this interest is coming about, because we have this demand for these high speed, low latency connections. There’s also been this massive reduction in costs for satellite development. If you are watching this space, you can see the companies like SpaceX and Amazon are in fact, you know, they’re mass producing satellites. I think I saw a report from one of Amazon’s things. They’re able to pump out for a day out of their factories. SpaceX is similar. They’re creating large numbers of this. And we’ve seen this massive reduction in the cost of launching SpaceX with this reusable rockets and pieces like that. The three. And Berna will get to this when she talks about the policy side are that. you have the satellite constellation, which is of course what we all know or we talk about. You also have the thing on the ground. Now the satellite industry calls this a user terminal or a ground terminal or something like that. For a consumer, we might talk about it as just the antenna or the dish or something like that. It’s a little different from the past. With traditional satellites, you had a fixed antenna that you put on the side of a house and you pointed out because the satellite was always in a location. These antennas look more like a pizza box. They have electronics in them to be able to interact with multiple satellites. And they’re very different. They also sometimes have a different point. It’s packaged differently in different ways. And then you have these ground stations, which are also called gateways. And those are important pieces of how this all works. And let me just show a quick picture to show how this works. In one way, your satellite connection goes up, bounces off a satellite and gets down to a ground station. In LEO environments, you’re actually probably interacting with at least one or two satellites. The satellites are typically overhead for about five minutes. And so you have multiple satellites and that’s part of what happens. Now, one interesting development that’s happened with LEOs that’s made it even more interesting is some communication between satellites. Because before and with traditional satellites, you had to always be in range of a ground station. And so that meant that you could only interact where you had to have a ground station every maybe nine kilometers or so across the earth. Now, the satellites are actually able to connect in between them using what are called inner satellite lasers. And this allows you to connect to a satellite, go across the Starlink constellation in this case, and then drop down to a ground station. SpaceX has pioneered this with. with Starlink, all the others who are out there are looking at similar kinds of ways, and so it provides some interesting and very remote areas that are far away from where you might be able to have a ground station. The Internet Society did create a document about this. You can get it at internetsociety.org. It’s there. It’s something you can be able to look at that goes through a lot of these questions and things. I want to just touch on a couple before I pass it on here. Don mentioned the question around affordability. Can we actually make this affordable to everybody who needs it? Will it have the capacity to handle everybody’s devices? Because we want to go and connect. Everybody has many devices. The big question from a technical point of view, quite honestly, right now in 2023, is getting the satellites up there is one of the big challenges we have right now. It turns out that at this moment in time, SpaceX is the only provider that’s really operating at scale. There’s a number of other launch providers that are working in this area, but they’re all caught in transitions right now between rockets. The United Launch Alliance, which is a traditional US provider, has been around for decades. They’re in the middle of going from an Atlas 5 to the Vulcan Centaur. It’s Ariane 5, but Ariane 6 is delayed. All of these things have caused a delay in us getting there. It should be temporary, but it is one of the challenges right now in getting these systems up there. There are smaller launch providers, but one big question is, can they launch at the scale? To give you an illustration of that, just in the past two months, SpaceX has launched seven rockets each month. Just this month, they’ve launched two already. They were supposed to launch one this morning, actually, but it got delayed because of some high winds. Now, they’re just trying to figure out when. This gives an example of this. and launch at this kind of level to provide this kind of support. We’ll talk, we have our paper outlines and we have room here to talk about some of these questions around security, privacy, interoperability, space debris is a big question. There are questions we don’t know yet. We don’t know whether all of these different proposals can actually work. We’re not clear on the environmental impact of launching all of these rockets and also of having these satellites burn up in the upper atmosphere. And there is a strong concern about impact on astronomy and pieces, which we don’t yet understand. So the reason we need to be having this conversation here at IGF and in other venues of activity in the space over the next few years, we’re expecting to see Starlink complete its first phase, what it calls its generation one and go on toward its next one. Right now it’s going to, the first one is about 4,400 satellites. The next shell, the next part of the constellation has been approved for 7,500 and is going on toward ultimately around 30,000 satellites. One web has completed its, which is now part of Eutelsat. So it’s actually now Eutelsat one web. They’ve completed their initial group, but they’re looking to go on toward building a second phase. Amazon’s project Kuiper just this past week successfully launched its first set two satellites for demonstration, but assuming all goes well, they’re looking in the 24 to begin launching growing up to around 3,200 satellites over the next while China is, is look from what we can tell from the outside is looking to build its own competitor, Starlink, which will be around 13,000 satellites or so 14,000 and the EU, the European union is looking to create what it calls its Iris two constellation. So the timing, the reason we need to be having these conversations is to understand that over the next five years or so, there’s going to be a massive amount of. of capacity coming up there online, the opportunities are tremendous. You know, satellites that are here, it’s conceivable from the filings with the International Telecommunications Union that we could see 40,000, 50,000, maybe even 60 or maybe even 90,000. It’s hard to know how many of these will actually make it into space and be able to work. But it’s a huge number of satellites. There’s a huge opportunity, but there’s also a lot of questions and things we just need to understand around Don’s points around affordability, availability, and also usability. So with that, I wanna just say thank you, and I look forward to answering questions as we go through this more.

Moderator:
Thank you, Dan. Very nice summary there. So, Nkem Uyegi. I never get that right, right, Nkem? But welcome. Nkem has been working on a project in Nigeria with libraries there. Nkem, please introduce yourself and tell us what you’ve been up to with these satellites. Unmute, Nkem.

Nkem Osuigwe:
Oh, apologies. Can you hear me now? Very much. So I am Nkem Uyegi. I am a librarian. I work for the African Library and Information Associations and Institutions with headquarters in Accra, Ghana. That is AFLIA. And when Don started talking about this new libraries, this satellite thing, it was like, is it possible? I don’t know how it’s going to happen. Can we afford it? Who can afford it in Africa? Through his engagements, we were able to get EARNED using Starlink for five weeks. libraries in Nigeria, one in Lagos, in the city center, then we have three in Abuja, and one in Kaduna. These are really urban areas. And what I had envisaged was that maybe it could be possible in rural areas, but I think that the rollout first was to urban areas. So we got those five around from June. We took delivery between around June 29 of this year, 2023. Initially, there were plenty of challenges in setting them up. There were issues. In fact, I took a picture of the library in Abuja that had complained that they were not getting the internet after the unit was set up. And it was because of the trees that covered the dish, so to speak. But right now, all of them are, the five of them are up and running. There are still some challenges because they are saying that the coverage doesn’t extend much to outside of the libraries. Because when I asked them to imagine a situation where something like maybe, we hope not, COVID-19 happens again, what happens? What happens when the library doors are closed? Can they still be able to offer services, even if it’s only internet services? So right now, the internet is strong, fast, stable. Inside of the libraries, we’ve seen particular areas of the libraries, outside a little bit. the signals become weak. Now, we have asked them to, we have asked the libraries to find out who will benefit most from this, or who can benefit most from this, this free and fast internet. And my idea, my idea was, you know, young people that are seeking for employment opportunities or want to learn digital skills or want to assess their assignments, or lifelong learners. But there was, I didn’t envisage another critical group. And when I found this out, you know, it kind of made me elated that, oh, so this is possible too. So, we open community, the open knowledge community in Nigeria. Who are these people? People that like the Wikimedia users group. We have quite a number of them in Nigeria. You know, Nigeria, we have more than 500 languages. And some of these groups, and some of them all have the user groups within Wikimedia. And why am I talking about them in particular? If you have ever edited any of the Wikimedia projects, you find out, once you edit and you want to publish, it kind of hangs. But with this now, the people, those of them that use the library, because we introduced the internet to them. And they say that when they go there to edit, whatever they did, it just goes fast like that. It doesn’t hang up. It doesn’t give them much issues. And also then we… also working with open license and OER enthusiasts. Because we are beginning to realize those resources, educational resources, stories, and so on. We hardly find those in mother tongues. And considering the fact that we have so many languages in Nigeria, we are beginning to ask librarians and others to please use some open platforms where we have storybooks for children to translate them into our local languages. And they’ve been using the internet a lot, quite a lot on that. And right on StoryWeaver, we are building another one on an African storybook. And all these things are made possible because of this internet from Starlink that makes it easier for you to translate. Because when you translate a story on these platforms, or when you’re translating, the internet slows down where you started. Or you get tired. But now with that fast internet, it’s really better for libraries in Nigeria, these five libraries that have free internet. And for the National Library of Nigeria, that they have it in Lagos, in Abuja, and Kaduna, they are saying that it’s a game changer. That although the traditional library users, those ones that we are sure will always use the library, it’s not as if they make use of it so much. But it’s really the new. people that are being attracted to the internet that are making use of it, especially like I said, the Wikimedia users group and then the open license enthusiasts and those that are interested in OER and stuff like that. So that is what I can say now about what we are doing in Nigeria with this. But we had a meeting on September 26th. Dawn was there most of the time. I wasn’t there most of the time. But I spoke with them again this morning and I asked them that there are things that we need to do. And that thing that we need to do is to you know, who are these people that are now using this internet? You know, because they are slightly different from our regular users. What is their age range? What do they do? You know, what stories do they have about the use of this internet? Then what’s the speed for them? Does the speed drop at a particular point in the day and so on? But you know, because these are all government libraries. They work only from Monday to Friday. They don’t work on Saturdays. So we are trying to see how to get staff to run shifts so that they can run, they can open on Saturdays for others that need them on those days. Then also, you know, yeah, hello. Once light goes off, you know, the router stops. And a problem. If the routers came with in-built inverter libraries and batteries, maybe that will be better for us. Thank you very much, Don. Thank you, I’m done. Yeah.

Moderator:
Thank you, Nick. Thank you. Yes, there’s a slide of the dish mounted on a mast to get elevation. Some flyers that went out around Lagos and Abuja show this new service was available, and people, word of mouth is getting around, people are interested and they’re coming in. Stephen Weiber will talk to us here. Stephen’s with the International Federation of Library Associations, a longtime associate. And we talked about this hub concept for sharing. And so Stephen, what’s the what’s the best hub?

Stephen Weiber:
Thank you. So I think I’m going to sort of in a less enthusiastic way, given where I come from. And I think one of the one of the things that makes libraries interesting here is that we are a pre-digital public infrastructure, that it’s an infrastructure that was there ahead of the Internet in order to help actually achieve goals in real life, in order to help people improve their lives through access to information, through access to knowledge. And so what they’re doing is trying to apply to make the most of the opportunities that digital tools aim goals of actually making a real difference. And I think it’s something that really came out in what Kim was saying was that what libraries are doing by bringing in the Starlink connections, by drawing on the satellite internet connections, is actually it’s making the difference between availability and impact as you talked at the beginning that obviously you can make things available but then how do you actually make that bridge from availability to full-on impact and that’s what the libraries are doing and it’s through some of the more basic things about some people being free access, limitation on access, but it’s also through the fact that you have a staff and a space that are actually dedicated to thinking through what how do we make a difference not just we provide something and see what happens but actually thinking it through and I think that there’s a number of characteristics about libraries and about the philosophy and the modus operandi of libraries that mean that they’re pretty well placed to do that and I think some of these actually resonate quite well with the themes picked for this IGF and I think there’s a I know the talk about meaningful connectivity and the back to a table or a link or whatever is something that’s been at the heart of what way that libraries have worked with the internet for a very long time it’s not I know the success of the internet is not measured in the number of people covered by a signal success of the internet is measured in how many people’s lives are improved there’s a strong focus on it being rights based that everyone has this right to access to information to be able to use information to improve their lives and beyond that there’s the role of libraries in localizing in thinking about the context and thinking about what’s going to work building on their knowledge of their communities and really being responsive to the needs of in highlight the interest of libraries as being a public interest and known location within the community there was a fantastic example of an internet backpack so another technology for bringing people online in Ghana and they use the library because it was the one place where all the local schools felt it was okay to come and it was okay okay to be the center in order to get people online. Two other things to mention, I think there’s the potential of libraries as a federator, again, they’re not seen as wanting to shift their weight around or try and dominate things, but they have proven to be quite things in taking all the different local actors, bringing them together in order to think how collectively can we make the most of connectivity and I think in Ken’s examples of working with Wikimedia chapters, working with different groups is really powerful here. And then I think that the final point I’d say is that libraries aren’t just about connectivity. At the risk of sounding rude, once upon a time there was the idea that internet cafes and telecenters would take over from libraries, but that’s not been the case, no, we don’t really talk about telecenters anymore because they were a purely digital infrastructure and with libraries you have other services that has a whole variety of ways of adding value and I think that’s also probably what helps make it and the examples that Don has supported in the US and the examples that Ken’s been involved in in Nigeria demonstrate that when you add connectivity to this mix you can really make things happen and you can really make sure as I said that we make that link between availability and impact.

Moderator:
Very good. That said, us anyway, the quintessential example of a community center, but if there is a center that the community supports and trusts, fine. It’s just that the library offers a certain model for a range of services. support services training, all the things Stephen mentioned that make it a go-to in the absence of an alternative. So now we’ll hear from Berna Gurr, who’s with Queen Mary University in London, a lot of policy aspects of this, which there are not a small number. And then we’ll open it up to questions. Please send them in through the chat or wait for the opportunity after Berna finishes. Thank you.

Berna Gur:
Go ahead. Thank you. It’s a pleasure to be here with such distinguished panelists, so thank you for inviting me. My intervention will focus on the regulatory and policy aspects of satellite broadband with a particular emphasis on addressing the global digital divide. As an international community, we strive to achieve a more equitable internet use that reduces global inequalities rather than increases them. And it’s only when connectivity becomes universal and meaningful, it can be utilized to create social and economic impact, which can lead to economic development and innovation. Now meaningful connectivity has broader requirements, but the underlying communications infrastructure for universal access remains crucial. Recent advancements in space-based technologies, particularly megaconstellations like Starlink, offer a promising solution for providing broadband services globally with minimal additional terrestrial infrastructure. This technology does not have to be considered as a standalone solution. It complements existing global communication infrastructures. However, its successful integration requires careful consideration of each country’s unique circumstances and needs as well as domestic laws and their international law commitments. So first, the policy makers and regulators shall make informed decisions by consulting other stakeholders about the best way to utilize this. They can then intervene by utilizing laws and regulations to maximize its benefits. As there is already an understanding of how satellite services are regulated at the national and international level. To start with, the provision of satellite services in a particular country is subject to that country’s laws and regulations. These are called landing rights, and the countries decide for themselves the terms of landing rights. Satellite communications are not new, so the regulations of regard in almost all jurisdictions. These regulations, however, at times need to be adjusted to the unique circumstances requirements of technological advancements. Mega constellations, I believe, qualify as such. Let’s start with the ground station, the gateway. Dan explains satellite systems connect to the internet through these ground stations. They need to be at the moment, the starting technology, need to be set up at least every 1000 kilometers. For that, they will need authorization from each relevant jurisdiction. Let’s say that your country has a smaller surface area, and there’s a ground station in one of your neighbors. Do you want to use, rely on your neighbor? to not disrupt your services at all times. There may be other cybersecurity implications as well. In another example, let’s say that your country has a very large surface area, you may need regulators to facilitate the authorization of more than one ground station. Suppose you want to create a competitive environment by authorizing multiple satellite broadband companies. In that case, you will need to arrange a location of these ground stations to avoid interfering with each other’s services and all other wireless services. The United Kingdom’s regulatory agency Ofcom, for example, has been very proactive in updating its regulations through frequent consultations with various stakeholders. Now, this brings us to the use of frequency spectrum. The satellites require the use of assigned frequency spectrum for their uplink and downlink connection with the user terminals and also the ground stations. The frequency spectrum is a limited natural resource, the global coordination of which ITU regulates. Unleashing requirements of the ITU, the frequency spectrum assignment in a particular country is subject to their jurisdiction, but coordination at international and domestic levels is necessary for uninterrupted provision of all wireless services, including mobile connectivity and satellites. The coexistence of operators in proximity may require technical cooperation amongst themselves. A licensing requirement for licensees to cooperate with each other may be a good solution to resolve this problem. So the range of these licenses and authorizations also changes with the business. For example. direct-to-consumer model would likely require an internet service provider license. Whereas OneWeb plans to provide backhaul services primarily to incumbent telecom operators. These are subject to different, they will be subject to different narrower set of regulations. Another essential component of the satellite systems are the user terminals. Satellite broadband companies need to export equipment to facilitate use of their services. The use and importation of user terminals are subject to licensing and import requirements of the national authorities. These terminals must be installed at the users premises and have been subject to standards and conformity assessment procedures by national regulatory agencies. These licenses are combined with the internet service provider license. From an international law perspective, the treaty obligations under the General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade, shortly GATT, and the Information Technology Agreement, plus preferential trade agreements, can become relevant. Regulators will have to check their commitments under these agreements. The customs duties applicable to user terminals will be an affordability, will be important to the affordability issue, especially for your broadband companies planning to provide their services directly to consumers. Again, depending on the type of service, data governance regimes and privacy concerns may come into the picture. Shortly, what I’m saying is that most countries have international law commitments when exercising their domestic regulatory powers. It is an extensive subject, so if you find this topic interesting and want to learn more, you could take a look at our research project funded by ISOC Foundation. There is a report on the global governance of satellite broadband, which covers the topics that I mentioned here. And there are short reports and papers for governments and civil society organizations, as well as links to academic papers, if you are interested. I want to conclude my intervention by referring to our policy paper. We advise developing countries to re-evaluate and update domestic regulations related to licensing and authorizing satellite broadband services, consider different business act on cybersecurity and autonomy when deciding on gateways. Forming regional alliances can enhance the achievement of policy goals. Two, participate actively in the International Telecommunications Union, which manages limited natural resources like frequency spectrum and orbital resources. Members should engage in decision-making processes, especially at world radio conferences. If this is done through regional alliances, it will again enhance achieving desired outcomes. Three, trade treaties. Consider interests and priorities associated with satellite broadband technology. And the last one, participate in the UN Committee on Peaceful Uses of Outer Space and take advantage of capacity building opportunities offered by the UN Office for Outer Space Affairs. Awareness of international space law is essential to make informed decisions. By holistically considering these actions, countries can ensure that their initiatives align with their sustainable development goals, technological autonomy and cybersecurity considerations. Thank you.

Moderator:
Thank you, Berna. You’ve made the point that the system is incredibly complicated on so many levels, the intellectual property, the licensing, the technology, the multiple technologies. the ecosystem, we’re really just at the beginning. And I wanted to make that point first, that this is not an advocacy, if it sounds like that, for this new technology, it is, however, I would say an advocacy for exploring this technology. And everyone who’s worried or concerned with bridging this actual digital divide, infrastructure especially, or as a backup, people that are connected, should know firsthand how this technology works. It’s still unfolding, the price has changed, there are so many questions about it. Before I’m going to ask for any questions from our live audience, I want to give Dan Organizer prerogative to make a follow-up comment on Bernard’s presentation. Dan.

Dan York:
Thank you, Don, and thank you, Berna, that was great. I want to just emphasize one key point, partly that you said that it is emerging, right? I mean, two years ago, we didn’t have this capability the way we do. Right now, we have primarily Starlink as our only option for this kind of connectivity. OneWeb expects to go live with their systems later this year to have connectivity by the end of 2023. And Amazon’s looking to get theirs up by the end of 2024, so many more. The important point is, this is an incredibly dynamic and evolving space. One other deployment challenge, I just want to build on what Berna said. If you look at what she talked about with each country, when I started this work, I naively thought that, you know, you could just, once these things were up there, you could bring a dish anywhere and it would just work. And, but the reality is all of that legal, all of those conventions that Berna mentioned are critical. And one question we often see from people is when will, you know, Starlink or. or OneWeb or anybody be available in my country. And it comes back to what Berna showed on that slide. In each and every country, the regulator needs to approve the spectrum that is being used for the uplink and the downlink between the systems also has to approve that user terminal equipment to be distributed. And so there’s a lot of regulatory work. These providers, whether it’s SpaceX or OneWeb or Amazon, they have large teams of staff whose job it is just to go and talk to the regulators of each country. And another critical was this sharing of spectrum. There are some countries that actually can’t use any of these systems because the frequencies that are needed are being used by that country’s existing government systems worth of pieces. So there’s a lot of complexity in turning it on for each individual country around the world. So it’s an exciting time, but there’s a lot of complexity and I see already some fantastic questions that people are asking. So thank you all for paying attention and for being here.

Moderator:
Thank you, Dan. Complexity is the word. In spite of the fact that the point is actually plug and play. We have a question from the audience here. Please identify yourself and try to make it quick.

Audience:
Hello, my name is Utra Meier-Hahn. I’m with GIZ, which is the German Agency for International Cooperation. We also look at this topic and I would like to leave one very short remark and a question. The very short remark adds to the very specific title of this session, how Leo Satellite Internet can contribute to closing the digital divide. And one thing that I have not heard, but when presented with the argument that Leo Satellite is so expensive and that is so unknown and it’s uncertain and all the other limitations and why we shouldn’t be more active in supporting other kinds of infrastructure, terrestrial infrastructure, mobile infrastructure. then I think it is important to remember that the digital divide grows larger with time. So, it’s very important to start closing it quickly, and that is one of the qualities of Leo Satellite Internet, that it allows deployment much quicker than the build-out of terrestrial or mobile infrastructure. So, it has a role in complementing these efforts. I feel like that is good to add. My question relates to the coordination specifically among countries that inquire about the use of Leo Satellite Internet and that try to choose providers. At this moment, there is not so much to choose, but with a view to the future and the past, first the past that has shown that sometimes providers may not live long, but their services require from those countries to make investments, both in hardware and in establishing the institutional setup, as you just said. There may be the assumption that the power as consumers, if we regard those countries as consumers, could be enlarged vis-à-vis providers to have good conditions by coordinating. My question to the panel goes to the direction of how you would suggest improved coordination among those, if you will, customer countries. Thank you.

Moderator:
Thank you. We actually didn’t mention politics among the various complexities, and certainly in telecommunications is rife with politics. How you integrate that into the ecosystem is a challenge in every country as well, and the business model and the ecosystem impact is another TBD. Dan?

Dan York:
Yeah, I think one of the interesting aspects you’ve mentioned was the quick deployment, and that is a critical element. You can drop a Leo’s dish anywhere, and you can make it happen. in a country that has that permission. And as long as you can get power to it, right, you can get that access and be able to provide that. We see it certainly as a compliment to existing infrastructure. You know, if you, we talk about a low latency in Leo connection, obviously you can get even lower latency in fiber, right? If you can get a fiber connection, you can get a fully synchronous, a higher, even higher speed, lower latency, that’s great. But the challenge is you can’t get fiber everywhere, right? And so there’s a complimentary aspect to this. There’s also a really interesting aspect, which is that Leo connectivity can get out there for the interest and usability and help people build the digital skills to be using internet connectivity so that when other terrestrial, you know, connectivity can catch up to that, they find that the people are already excited and interested and want that. So sometimes, I mean, there is a tension between terrestrial providers and the space-based, the newer space-based providers. But one interesting aspect is they actually work really well and one can lead to the other and can support both in there. Trees, one challenge that we have at the moment globally is that everybody’s looking to build their own systems, right? SpaceX has its own ground stations, its own antennas, its own systems. OneWeb has its own antennas, its own ground stations. Amazon’s Kuiper is doing the same thing. So we’re building multiple infrastructures. We’d love it if they’d cooperate, interoperate more, but these are commercial entities that are on their own market space around that. So we’ll have to see. As far as the internet, Berna could speak to that, I’m not.

Audience:
Dan, we’ve got actually quite a few questions and we’re running low on time. There was one online, maybe you could address that, related to the reselling. This has been a big question about Starlink and their licenses and the ability to use it as backhaul for commercial or even open community networks. Yeah, and this is an open question.

Dan York:
And the question is really, you know, if you get your Starlink connection, can you then resell it to other people? Can you do other things like that? This goes to what Berna mentioned about the different business models. Starlink right now is very focused on a direct consumer, a one-to-one relationship. So you get an antenna, you go and you use it for yourself or your library or your piece. OneWeb, their business model is very much focused on reselling. So their model is to work with partners, to work with people to be able to serve it. So they have a very different model on that. Amazon has indicated that they’re also going to do the direct-to-consumer model. But in all those cases, they’re testing other models too. So I think we don’t have a definitive answer right now around that. I know in some cases, Starlink has allowed their connection to be used as backhaul into a community network, with the backhaul being the connection back to the rest of the internet. So they have allowed that. Not clear yet whether that’s broadly applicable or whether they’re doing it on a case-by-case basis. But it’s one area I think we just have to…

Moderator:
And actually part of what that model is by testing out those limits in fact. And so what will they permit? The Starlink business model continues itself to evolve rapidly. They change their pricing structures, their licensing, and they go for different markets, the end-user consumer market. now into commercial use, ships, planes. So it’s highly dynamic, the business model. So I just would encourage everybody to try one out and see what you can do with it. We have, it looks like three people here in the room. Could you each ask your question briefly, all at once, and we’ll try to get to all of them.

Audience:
Sir, introduce yourself. Yeah, okay. My name is Nick Brock from DW Academy and from Rhizomatica. I wanted to make this longer, but I will make it really short. I think there’s an underlying, undermining question, which is ecology. So, and you said there are many doubts. My question, I will turn it around. Firing satellites in space, satellites that have to be renewed every five years. So why do you put this as a rhetorical question, if this is sustainable or not? So please tell me what, give me one argument why you think this is environmentally sustainable as a technology. So I don’t see it. And I think this kind of, we have to see, there is a competence and maybe, yeah, there are the companies competing against each other. Let’s see what happens in five years. Do we have this time? And this question would come from my daughter, 11 years old, not having a cell phone, opening up because we’re all crazy and fucking up.

Moderator:
Yeah, and it’s an excellent question. And there’s lots more. Dan, let’s collect some questions. We’ll try to answer all of them. That’s a good one. Sounds good. Go ahead, please.

Audience:
Thank you so much. Okay, plus one to the environmental question. The other question is just about the regulation or observation of the people who are putting these satellites into space, especially when they’re able to turn them off or throttle or change the service provided. Sort of at the whims of these individuals. How do we monitor that? What’s the accountability structure? And then also just to give a, raise a hand that we are in the middle of a pandemic. a nonprofit called measurement lab that measures the interconnection points, speed and quality of the internet around the world and being able to monitor the satellite space. So if anybody is curious about making that data public. Could you repeat that last last one, please? We measure interconnection points about the speed and quality of the internet around the world and we make that data public. It’s the largest public data set about internet performance that exists. So if people are interested in monitoring satellites, please come see me.

Moderator:
Okay, that’s a lot. Carlos.

Audience:
Hi, Carlos. My point is around whether it can close the digital divide or not. I think there are very laudable efforts from libraries, where they have access to power, where they have access to pay the connectivity. But what does it happen in other communities where a unit that is, you know, 150 to 200 watts, that costs a CAPEX that is, you know, 300 to 400, even 600 US dollars? I mean, how do you affront those costs when people don’t have actually money to get to the end of the month? How do you do the recurring payments? You know, like, I mean, there are many questions to actually consider this as a business model for the communities. But then there is a real question that is being asked by some researchers that is the sustainability of Starlink itself. If it needs to continue, I mean, the environmental question is a real question that I would like to get answered as well. But would the Starlink continue being sustainable or it would be loomed 2.0, right? Steve Song, one colleague of mine, has been starting to do that research in the economics of the amount of money that they require in revenue to be able to continue putting 12,000 to 20,000 satellites in orbit to cover everyone when they cannot do more individual connectivity, you know, because it doesn’t make sense because people don’t have the money to pay for the CAPEX and the OPEX. I mean, it’s… Thank you, Guido. One more here. I’m from Brazil and I’m here representing the youth program from the Brazilian Committee about Internet Governance. And actually, I would like to have the point of view from the speakers because talking about the Brazilian experience with the Starlink… I think we had a kind of naively expectations about how the Starlink would be a meaningful connective especially in the Amazon region but what we are seeing right now especially me as a research is that the Starlink has been most used in the Amazon region in the really wild and remote areas to support illegal gold miners and drug trafficking and they are exactly the group who is killing the indigenous people and they are responsible to for the indigenous tragedy so we had a kind of promise that the Starlink would provide internet for the the schools in the Amazon region but it didn’t happen so I understand that this is probably related to the affordability key but I would like to see from you what you think about that especially because I think we need to talk about business advocates because if I know I think people that work in Starlink know that this broadband is being used in order to support illegal groups so that’s my point. Thank you.

Moderator:
Thank you. I think all those are excellent and difficult questions. There are many difficult questions with this technology the and the system there is the environmental impact. I should say that it may seem like we’re promoting Starlink but we are not. We’re just pointing to it as a new and unique phenomena in the telecom ecosystem. It seems to us important what it is, how it works, what’s at impact. This a single global last-mile network. That’s really different. Let’s find out. It’s really our case here. So I don’t feel I should be defending Starlink or if anybody else wants to, they’re welcome to, but the satellite turnover, impact, there are trade-offs. So for example, should we allow nuclear power to deal with the amount of carbon that’s accumulating in the atmosphere? I’m completely against nuclear power. In the context of the crisis, maybe we have to. So I don’t know if that’s a good analogy, but I want to make the point about trade-offs. So yeah, yeah. So this is, this is great. Dan, I think you should point everybody to your discussion environment that you have where a lot of these issues are aired out every day, and I think that a lot of these could be dealt with there, but take a shot at anything you’ve just heard.

Dan York:
I know we’re running out, we’re hitting the end of time. And these are great questions. I mean, to the person who asked about the environmental issues, there was just a paper published recently. That’s the first we’ve seen sort of in analyzing the research, looking at the costs, the carbon costs of the launches of these systems. And that’s a real question. And that is this trade-off. Can we use these as a system to go and connect the unconnected around the world? Can they be affordable? That’s the huge question that’s being asked here. Can they be that? I have a larger question. Right now, these are all being built by commercial enterprises. Do we want only under the control of several commercial entities that are owned by eclectic billionaires. The EU is taking a position with their iris constellation of trying to have one that is coordinated by a set of countries. Will there be other models? The larger question that was asked here, are these sustainable? We don’t know. People have been around here for a while will recall there was a Leo burst back in the 1990s with Iridium and Global Star and some other countries, entities that were creating constellations for telephone access. It wasn’t there. It died away, although they’re still up there. They’re still being used. They’re looking to come back in some ways for data, but it’s a real question. The thing that we, and the importance of bringing it here is for people to understand that this technology is happening. It’s going on. There are rocket launches happening every week that are putting more and more of these satellites up there. We have to understand them. We have to understand where they can fit, what trade-offs we will make. What are they? Is the carbon cost, is the trade to get the connectivity that we all need? Are there ways that we can mitigate that or make it better or do it? What happens to all these satellites when they burn up? You mentioned it there, we didn’t really hit on here, but these things only have about a five-year lifespan due to the pull of gravity, atmospheric drag, lots of other reasons. The satellite providers have to be constantly launching new satellites in order to keep these constellations up. Is that sustainable? Is there enough people who will buy it? Is there the capacity to support it? I don’t know. None of us do. The measurement lab, a question around that. We don’t have access to that data yet because a lot of it is all happening in proprietary systems. Also, there’s only one up there in full. Lots of questions. these next five years are going to be very interesting and I think we all just need to keep our attention focused on there to see what are the opportunities, what are the trade-offs we have to make, where does it all work, will it all work.

Moderator:
Very good. There are more of course issues. We didn’t talk about space junk, we didn’t talk about astronomy, we didn’t talk about the stability of this billionaire, that there are just a lot of issues. So tracking this is important, involving everyone in it or as many people that are actually interested is important so that these questions are not just here in a room but are part of the public debate. So I encourage everyone to investigate more deeply into this extraordinary technology and I’ll take a break. That is usually not mentioned, we talk about education, we talk about health information, access to public services and public information, but having basically a connectivity point in a community that is impervious to disruption, to disasters, speaking of carbon and weather, this is increasingly the world we’ve created and we’re living in or going to be living in for the foreseeable. So also don’t have access to educational opportunities, commercial health opportunities, are also people who are not contributing to the carbon accumulation but they are impacted more heavily by the results of what industrial economies have done. Giving them this capability is one very powerful way to give them adaptation capability and we think that’s part of the equation as we calculate how these things should go. So with that we’ve run a little bit over but I want to thank our our panelists, and our audience, and everyone involved in this. Thank you very much. Thank you. And I wish we could have gone to Burna and the chem a bit more too, but we had so little time. Thank you.