Environmentally Sustainable E-commerce and Development

Audience

The discussions convened focused on various topics related to responsible consumption and production, climate action, and trade policies. One topic was the demand from consumers for platforms to respond to their environmental concerns. It was recognised that consumers want platforms to take initiatives to reduce their environmental impact, highlighting the importance of sustainability measures in business practices.

Another topic discussed was the expectation for firms and producers to report their environmental footprints. It was emphasised that even small and medium-sized enterprises should be accountable for their environmental impact. This emphasises the significance of transparency and accountability in achieving sustainability goals.

The discussions also addressed initiatives in Germany to address plastic usage, highlighting the potential impact of trade policies on reducing environmental harm. It was recognised that by addressing key trade policy areas, countries can make significant strides towards achieving environmental sustainability.

Furthermore, the need to create linkages between various ministries to form cohesive trade and environmentally-friendly policies was mentioned. It was emphasised that policies created outside of the trade ministry should be linked to trade policies. This underscores the importance of inter-ministerial collaboration in developing comprehensive and effective policies that address both economic and environmental concerns.

The discussions also touched upon the impact of platforms like MercadoLibre on sustainability. The audience expressed curiosity about MercadoLibre’s effect on their suppliers’ packaging material and how the company ensures alignment with their sustainability strategy. This reflects the growing interest in understanding the role online marketplaces play in promoting sustainable practices throughout the supply chain.

The issue of e-waste in e-commerce was also addressed, with some e-commerce companies taking steps to tackle e-waste through take-back, reuse, and repair policies. Partnerships with local communities that recycle were also mentioned. However, e-waste remains a significant problem in the e-commerce industry, necessitating more comprehensive and standardized approaches to manage it.

In conclusion, the discussions underscored the importance of responsible consumption and production, climate action, and trade policies in achieving sustainability goals. The role of consumers, businesses, and governments in driving these efforts was highlighted. Overall, there is a growing awareness and urgency to address environmental concerns and take concrete steps towards a more sustainable future.

Shamika Sirimanne

In the analysis of various arguments regarding e-commerce and its impact on the environment, several key points were made. It was highlighted that e-commerce needs to address environmental sustainability issues early on before it’s too late. The negative sentiment towards e-commerce’s impact on the environment stems from concerns of overconsumption and increased production due to convenient online shopping. The argument is that the ease of online shopping might lead to higher levels of consumption, resulting in more waste and resource depletion. This argument suggests that e-commerce should be cautious about its potential contribution to the problem of excessive consumption which negatively impacts the environment.

On the positive side, it was argued that online shopping could actually be more energy and carbon efficient compared to driving to physical stores. This is because, in online shopping, the transportation and storage aspects are optimized, reducing the overall carbon footprint. Additionally, it was noted that digital products, such as e-books, create less physical waste compared to their physical counterparts. This positive sentiment suggests that e-commerce has the potential to offer environmental opportunities and contribute to sustainable consumption and production.

Another negative point raised was regarding the last-mile delivery, which is seen as the most costly and potentially polluting segment of the e-commerce supply chain. The argument is that changes in transportation and storage methods could lead to a reduction in environmental impact. This points to the need for innovative solutions in logistics and delivery to mitigate the negative effects of e-commerce on the environment.

Additionally, data centers used in the digital economy were highlighted for their substantial energy and water consumption. The argument here is that the high energy and water usage of data centers, which contribute to carbon emissions and water scarcity, need to be addressed to minimize the environmental impact of e-commerce.

The analysis also emphasized the need for more conscious efforts to lessen the environmental impact of e-commerce. This includes breaking down the supply chain into its individual stages to understand the environmental outcomes at each stage. However, it was noted that statistical data on e-commerce and its environmental impact is lacking, highlighting the need for robust research in this area.

Furthermore, it was suggested that there is a need for methodology and data to measure and understand the connection between e-commerce and the environment. Currently, the lack of a standardized way to measure and track green practices along the e-commerce supply chain hinders effective assessment and monitoring of environmental outcomes.

The importance of collaboration among governments, businesses, and consumers to protect the environment was also highlighted. It was argued that governments should implement regulations to ensure environmental adherence, while businesses should strive to be environmentally friendly. Similarly, consumers were encouraged to make informed choices and support environmentally conscious businesses, even if it means paying a bit more.

Another interesting observation was the positive impact of women entrepreneurs in promoting greener businesses and sustainability in e-commerce. Women were noted to be more conscious about sustainability and saving the planet, which has led to the emergence of women-led platforms that focus on green practices.

In engaging in the digital economy and e-commerce, it was highlighted that the responsibility does not solely lie with one ministry. Various ministries, including trade, ICT, regulatory bodies, and central banks, need to come together to assess and support countries’ readiness to engage in e-commerce and the digital economy.

The importance of regulations and incentives in the realm of digital technology was also emphasized. Examples were given, such as the regulation on single-use plastics in Germany and Kenya, and the voluntary adoption of certain standards by companies like Mercado Libre. These examples highlight the role of regulations and incentives in encouraging environmentally friendly practices within the digital economy.

However, the issue of data governance was noted to be often overlooked by trade ministries in many countries. Data governance is crucial for ensuring the ethical and responsible use of data in the digital economy.

Lastly, the importance of addressing the issue of e-waste was emphasized. E-waste, resulting from outdated or discarded electronic devices, poses a significant environmental challenge. The need to develop strategies and standards to manage and reduce e-waste was reiterated.

In conclusion, the analysis of the arguments regarding e-commerce and its environmental impact showcased both positive and negative aspects. While there are concerns about overconsumption, increased production, and the environmental impact of last-mile delivery and data centres, there are also opportunities for e-commerce to be more energy efficient, generate less waste, and contribute to sustainable consumption and production. The overall sentiment highlights the necessity for conscious efforts, data-driven research, collaboration among stakeholders, regulations, incentives, and addressing gaps in data governance to mitigate the negative environmental consequences associated with e-commerce.

Nicolas Palau

Colombia has experienced a significant surge in e-commerce in recent years, both in terms of monetary value and transaction volumes. However, concerns have been raised about the environmental impacts of this growth. Both the government and private producers in Colombia are starting to consider the externalities of e-commerce.

One major concern is the excessive use of packaging materials, with over 3 billion trees estimated to be used annually for packaging products traded through e-commerce platforms. This leads to deforestation and contributes to waste through increased demand for cardboard and plastic. The energy, water, and resource consumption of data servers and centers required for e-commerce operations also add to the environmental footprint.

Another factor contributing to the environmental impact of e-commerce is the high rate of product returns, which generates additional waste. The growth of e-commerce has led to increased use of cardboard, plastics, energy, and fuel, further exacerbating environmental degradation.

While Colombia has shown initiatives on the sustainable use of plastics and packaging, these efforts are not directly linked to e-commerce. More targeted measures and initiatives are needed specifically to address the environmental impact of e-commerce, evaluating the use of energy, plastics, cardboard, and fuels in these operations to mitigate their detrimental effects.

However, it is important to consider the potential impact of environmental measures on e-commerce businesses in developing countries. E-commerce presents an opportunity for small companies and vulnerable entrepreneurs, as well as economic growth through export opportunities. Measures implemented to address environmental concerns should not hinder the development of e-commerce businesses in these regions.

Accurate and comprehensive information is crucial to effectively address the environmental impact of e-commerce. Measurement tools and data collection are essential to understand the extent of the environmental effects and identify cost-effective measures for policy implementation.

Environmental implications are often neglected in international treaty discussions regarding e-commerce. Including environmental discussions within e-commerce treaty negotiations is important to adequately address environmental concerns and integrate them into international agreements.

Mercado Libre, a leading e-commerce platform, has implemented a green strategy that enhances its competitiveness. The strategy attracts sustainability-focused users, increasing the platform’s revenue. Additionally, the strategy allows Mercado Libre to reach populations that would not typically have online access, aligning with Sustainable Development Goals related to responsible consumption and production as well as climate action.

Nicolas Palau, an advocate for sustainable practices, believes that Mercado Libre’s green strategy benefits the environment and the company’s competitiveness. Appealing to sustainability-minded customers helps increase revenue and expand the customer base.

In conclusion, while e-commerce presents economic opportunities, it is crucial to address its environmental impacts. Colombia’s experience highlights the importance of targeting packaging waste, energy consumption, and product returns in e-commerce operations. Measures and initiatives must be implemented to mitigate these challenges, balancing economic growth with environmental sustainability. Including environmental discussions in international e-commerce treaty negotiations and ensuring wider participation in policy-making processes are vital steps towards achieving this balance.

Yasmin Ismail

The environmental impacts of e-commerce are often overlooked in policy debates, despite the significant waste generated by online purchases. For example, a family ordering school supplies online resulted in the delivery of nine cardboard boxes, 17 plastic wrappings, and four transported deliveries. This highlights the scale of waste that can be generated from a single transaction.

It is crucial to discuss the connection between e-commerce, the environment, and development. However, the given information does not provide supporting evidence for this argument.

To address this issue effectively, gathering more data and involving all stakeholders in the debate is essential. This comprehensive approach would provide a better understanding of the environmental impacts of e-commerce and enable the development of sustainable policies.

Breaking down the silos between ministries is also important. Collaboration and cooperation between different governmental departments are needed to create effective policies that address the environmental challenges posed by e-commerce.

Implementing proactive trade policies is also necessary. By incorporating environmental considerations into trade negotiations, the harmful impacts of e-commerce on the environment can be addressed. Unfortunately, specific details about these policies or their benefits are not mentioned.

To avoid creating a zero-sum game between e-commerce and the environment, policies should be designed to ensure that both sectors can thrive without compromising sustainability goals. Balancing economic growth with responsible consumption and production is paramount to achieving long-term environmental sustainability.

In addressing these issues, support from relevant organizations, such as BMZ (exact description not provided), is critical. Their involvement can provide the necessary resources and expertise to drive progress in this area.

Lastly, fostering communication between different e-commerce platforms, like MercadoLibre, can effectively disseminate best practices and promote sustainable approaches across the industry. Engaging multiple platforms in the conversation would contribute to a collective effort in addressing the environmental challenges of e-commerce.

In conclusion, the environmental impacts of e-commerce are often neglected in policy debates, despite the significant waste generated by online purchases. It is essential to discuss the connections between e-commerce, the environment, and development, and gather more data on these impacts. Breaking down silos between ministries, implementing proactive trade policies, and avoiding a zero-sum game between e-commerce and the environment are crucial steps. Moreover, support from organizations like BMZ and improved communication between platforms like MercadoLibre are necessary to address these issues effectively.

Christian Bilfinger

The analysis explores a range of perspectives on topics such as e-commerce, sustainability, and digitalization. One viewpoint expresses a negative sentiment towards the environmental impact of e-commerce and digital transformation. The argument is that these practices have a strong influence on the environment. Supporting facts include the high percentage of consumers in Germany who regularly purchase goods and services through online marketplaces, as well as the significant number of companies conducting their business online. However, the analysis also presents a positive perspective on the importance of strategy, regulation, and incentives for green e-commerce and digitalization. The argument is that without these factors, achieving sustainability goals in these areas would be challenging. Germany is highlighted as a country that has enacted and planned 70 steps of regulation for green e-commerce, aimed at reducing emissions and achieving greenhouse gas neutrality by 2045. Additionally, businesses in Germany are voluntarily reporting sustainability targets and reductions in greenhouse gas emissions, which are seen as creating momentum for a shift towards sustainable business models. Transparency for consumers is viewed as a positive factor that can motivate green choices. E-commerce platforms in Germany are starting to report sustainability targets, which helps consumers make informed decisions. Initiatives like Fashion Leap For Climate are also encouraging brands to set sustainability targets, further promoting transparency. The analysis suggests that businesses should voluntarily adopt sustainability practices and be transparent about their environmental impact. It is argued that this can have a positive effect on shifting towards sustainable business models. Evidence supporting this standpoint includes German e-commerce platforms voluntarily reporting sustainability targets and reductions in greenhouse gas emissions, as well as incentivizing brands to set sustainability targets. The analysis also recognizes the significance of digitalization in reaching sustainable development goals globally. It is argued that increasing digitalization is necessary to achieve the Sustainable Development Goals and the Agenda 2030. However, the analysis also notes that for trade to contribute to sustainable development, the rules surrounding it need to be established correctly. Another notable point is the importance of increasing developing countries’ participation in global rulemaking. The analysis stresses that their involvement needs to be enhanced for a more equitable decision-making process. The analysis also highlights the support available for African partner countries in digitalizing their economies. Germany’s new Africa strategy emphasizes supporting these countries in their digitalization efforts. Furthermore, there is an emphasis on the need to work closely with SMEs, especially women-led SMEs, to promote greener e-commerce business models. The implementation of the Pan-African e-commerce initiative is cited as an example of on-the-ground solutions working with SMEs to address challenges. The analysis also highlights potential challenges such as reporting regulations that could hinder SMEs. It is argued that zero-sum games should be avoided, wherein SMEs are negatively impacted by reporting requirements. The need for governments to establish common reporting standards is stressed, as SMEs often face difficulties due to varying reporting regimes. The analysis emphasizes the importance of sequencing reporting obligations based on company sizes. An example is given of Germany’s supply chain due diligence act, which highlights the significance of aligning reporting obligations with company capacities. The need to provide technical assistance to SMEs is recognized, with an emphasis on listening to the challenges faced by these companies and designing programs accordingly. Finally, the analysis suggests improving donor coordination as a positive action to enhance sustainable development efforts. In conclusion, the analysis presents a range of perspectives on e-commerce, sustainability, and digitalization, with both positive and negative sentiments expressed. The importance of strategy, regulation, and incentives for green e-commerce and digitalization is emphasized, along with the role of transparency and voluntary adoption of sustainability practices by businesses. The significance of digitalization in achieving sustainable development goals globally is acknowledged, as well as the need for trade, developing countries’ participation in global rulemaking, and support for African partner countries in their digitalization efforts. Working closely with SMEs, ensuring common reporting standards, providing technical assistance, and improving donor coordination are also seen as essential actions for sustainable development.

François Martins

MercadoLibre, a prominent e-commerce platform in Latin America, has demonstrated a strong commitment to sustainability and responsible consumption. From the very beginning of its operations, the company recognized the potential environmental impact of its business and adopted strategies to mitigate these effects. This commitment is reflected in its environmental management and impact mitigation efforts, which are integrated into its core business model from the outset.

One key aspect of MercadoLibre’s sustainability initiatives is its focus on implementing sustainable transportation methods. The company has taken steps to reduce emissions and promote cleaner mobility by utilizing trucks that run on natural gas and employing electric vehicles for local deliveries. By adopting these eco-friendly alternatives, the company aims to minimize its carbon footprint and contribute to global efforts towards climate action.

Furthermore, MercadoLibre has also taken significant steps to power its business and data centres using solar energy, thus reducing its reliance on non-renewable energy sources. This commitment to sustainable energy is in line with its goal of responsible consumption and production, as outlined in SDG 12.

In addition to its efforts in transportation and energy management, MercadoLibre actively promotes the use of sustainable practices within its packaging policies. Through its 3P model, where sellers use the platform to sell items, the company has implemented strict packaging regulations to minimize environmental impact. It guides sellers on which packaging materials to use based on considerations such as volume, visibility, and the level of pollution generated by specific materials.

MercadoLibre’s sustainability initiatives also extend beyond its operations and into reforestation programs. The company invests in forests across various regions, including Brazil, Argentina, Colombia, and Mexico, to sequester the carbon emissions it is yet unable to avoid. Its reforestation efforts are part of its ‘Regenera America’ program, highlighting its commitment to climate action as per SDG 13.

Moreover, MercadoLibre recognizes the importance of supporting indigenous communities and promoting sustainable e-commerce. In Latin America, where the platform operates, there are vast wildlife preservation reserves and significant indigenous populations. MercadoLibre sees these communities as key players in the sustainable e-commerce sector, with their unique cultural products bringing value to the market.

François Martins, a proponent of corporate responsibility, emphasizes that businesses should take responsibility for their environmental impact and work towards more sustainable practices. MercadoLibre fully aligns with this stance, as it has been actively working on environmental management and impact mitigation since its inception. It links its mitigation efforts directly to its core business model, ensuring that sustainability is integrated throughout its operations.

Another notable observation is the importance of democratizing a new kind of economy for sustainable e-commerce in Latin America. This includes highlighting the role of Afro-entrepreneurship in wealth creation in countries such as Brazil and Colombia. Additionally, MercadoLibre supports this vision by offering a sustainable products section on its platform, consisting of a wide range of over one million sustainable products listed.

However, one challenge lies in the need for consumers to be willing to pay more for sustainable products and services. While the sentiment towards the importance of sustainability is positive, this concern suggests that further education and awareness may be necessary to bridge the gap between consumer willingness and sustainable consumption.

Overall, MercadoLibre stands out as a champion of sustainability in the e-commerce industry in Latin America. Its proactive approach and concrete actions towards reducing environmental impact, promoting sustainable business practices, and supporting indigenous communities make it a noteworthy example of responsible and sustainable business operations.

Yasmin Ismail:
Welcome everyone. Thank you so much for coming to this session. I was told by our fellow interpreters to kindly request you to whenever you will be requesting the floor and speaking to kindly open up your microphone and just speak up as loud as you can and as slow as possible. Now, thank you so much for coming again. In this session where we will explore the nexus between e-commerce, the environment and development. And I want to start by sharing with you a few numbers. Nine cardboard boxes, 17 plastic wrappings and four transported deliveries. These are the results of a single purchasing of a family who decided to order school supplies for their son online. And I’m sorry to say that this family is mine. During COVID-19 lockdowns, I was even under the impression that cardboard boxes will colonize the house and take over the control. Ms. Nadira Bayat from UNCTAD and myself met one day and we both expressed our concern of the fact that the environmental impacts of e-commerce are still overlooked in policy debates in Geneva. And that it is worth bringing it up while ensuring that the development angle is there from the beginning. This session is the result of this discussion and the common interest and forward looking visions of our respective organizations, UNCTAD, Cuts and of course the Colombian mission to the WTO. The session will have two rounds of interventions. by very distinguished panelists and best relevant experts to the topic. They will first share their views on the nexus between trade and environment, and in the second round of interventions, they will share their thoughts about challenges of environmentally sustainable e-commerce in developing countries. The floor will be then open for discussion. On the panel, on my right, I have Dr. Shamika Sereman, Director of the Division on Technology and Logistics of UNCTAD. She leads the work on science, technology and innovation, as well as e-commerce and the digital economy. She serves as the Head of the Secretariat of the UN Commission on Science and Technology for Development. Ms. Sereman also supervises the research for the flagship UNCTAD publications, Digital Economy Report and Technology and Innovation Report, among others. Ms. Sereman previously served as Director of the ICT and Disaster Risk Reduction Division of the UN Economic and Social Commission for Asia and the Pacific, among other distinguished positions and accomplishments. Welcome on the panel, Dr. Shamika. My second speaker will be Mr. Nicolas Pallau, on my left. Deputy Permanent Representative of the Colombian Mission to the WTO, a Colombian lawyer from the Universidad de Los Andes in Bogota. Right. All right. And a Master’s in Economic Development from the Erasmus University of Rotterdam in the Netherlands. He has been an advisor in the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and in the Presidency of the Republic of Colombia. He was Director of Foreign Investment Services Intellectual Property at the Ministry of Commerce. He is a Ph.D. candidate in law at the University of Geneva. All the best of luck. Thank you so much for being on the panel. I have also on my far right Mr. Christian Bilfinger. A Senior Policy Advisor at the German Federal Ministry for Economic Cooperation and Development, where his primary focus is on the WTO. Greening Aid for Trade, Digital Trade and E-Commerce, the African Continental Free Trade Area, Intellectual Property Rights and Fair Trade, quite a vast angle. Before that, Mr. Bilfinger worked at the OECD Secretary General’s Office, where he assumed focal point responsibilities for trade and agriculture, among other topics. Prior, he was responsible for migration policy at the Konrad Adenauer Foundation and served as its Deputy Head of Office in Mexico. And Mr. Bilfinger received his Bachelor of Arts degree from the University of York in Politics, Philosophy and Economics, his Master’s in International Relations from the Maxwell School of Citizenship and Public Affairs at Syracuse University. And at my far left, Mr. François Martins, Mercado Libre’s Director of Government Relations and Public Policy based in Brazil, Mr. Martins also serves as VP of Brazilian Digital Economy Chamber and member of the Council of Zeta, a Brazilian fintech trade association, and as Vice Chairperson of the Digital Economy Committee of the International Chamber of Commerce. Mr. Martins holds a Master’s degree and has over 15 years of experience in the field of law, public policy and technology. I welcome you all on the panel. And without further ado, I’m very anxious to listen to all of our experts today. So please, I’m going to start the first round of interventions. And I’m gonna give each speaker around four minutes for this first round of questions. I’m gonna start with Dr. Shameka. As leader of Umtad’s work on e-commerce as well as on science, technology, innovation, for many years, why do you consider it important that we pay more attention to the environmental dimension of e-commerce? The floor is yours.

Shamika Sirimanne:
I think we can answer that in one minute because you just said why. You ordered and there’s enormous amount of packaging and the plastics and everything came to your house and took over your house. So this is why it is important. I think it’s, as we all know, e-commerce is growing very fast and it’s just the beginning that we have seen that it’s gonna massively grow. And so environmental sustainability issues need to be addressed now, before it’s too late. So I think this is very, very good. I think we got some numbers from my colleagues, the global FinDex database, according to the 2021 numbers, 2.3 billion people shopped online in 2021 and 68% more than in 2017. So this is massive, it’s just a massive jump. I mean, of course, after COVID-19, we started to go shopping in shops too, but nonetheless, these are big, big jumps. And I think it is just going to go on. So this is, if there are challenges, they need to be addressed early on before it is too late. Now, let me also give you, yes, I mean, the packaging is a real issue for me too, but let me also give you the, what environmental opportunities open up because of e-commerce. And first is, buying a product online versus going to shopping malls and going around, driving and all that. So it could be energy and carbon efficient in that way than driving a car around town. So it’s good for the environment. And buying physical products in digital formats like, you know, how many of us are now downloading books. That’s good for the environment, doing that. But, you know, as you said, Yasmin, the e-commerce is not going to automatically become good for the environment. So one of the things is, you know, the greater convenience for consumers also means that people just buy stuff. You know, buy more and more and more and more because it’s just, you know, you click and stuff comes. And somebody has to produce these things. And the energy has to be spent. And the carbon emissions will be out there. So, you know, more you buy and more you have to produce, more you have to transport. So that then adds to the, you know, environmental degradation. Now let me also say that our next digital economy report, I think many of you know, the last digital economy report was on cross-border data flows. And it almost created a big revolution in the U.N. system, maybe mini-revolution in the rest of the world. But we really looked at the cross-border data flows. And this year, this report, next report coming up is going to look at the environmental footprints of the e-commerce and the digital economy. So watch out for that report. And there we also want to say it’s not like we’re asking people not to give up their smartphones. You know, somebody who’s got their smartphone for the first time in Malawi, we’re not going to say, oh, you know, now it’s bad for you. No, it’s not that. It’s just like how do we make sure as we consume more of these products, and how do we make sure that we don’t, you know, destroy the earth. Now I think as you said, one of the things that we need to look at when you’re looking into accounting for environmental footprints, you need to really break the whole supply chain into its pieces. Because you cannot just say stuff. And you need to have methodologies. You need to really have an accounting system. You know, like, say, for example, from retailer to the warehouse and distribution centers and the transport and to the buyer. to the packaging, marketing, I don’t know, all this analyzing consumer behaviors, you know, they’re all part of that supply chain. So at each of these stage, it is possible to influence the environmental outcome, either for the good or the bad. So we have to really develop this methodology. So I just want to say that. Now, we also see, you know, in our own work, that there is still transportation, it’s just the last mile delivery. Seeing is the most costly and potentially most polluting segment of the supply chain. So, but how do we then address that? Like, for example, these platforms, do they have to constantly buy stuff to our own houses? Can we all collect this stuff in some central place in town? You know, there are many things that we need to discuss and address and share experiences. Now, things we also will need to talk, because we are talking about here about e-commerce, it’s a larger picture of the whole digital economy and the environmental footprint. And here you have to consider data centers, and they basically use enormous amount of energy. So, and everybody’s into, you know, creating their data centers. And I think the International Energy Agency has said that right now about one to 1.5% of global electricity use is used for data centers. So we have to start thinking, but this is probably, this data probably doesn’t exist well. And then, of course, with data centers, and we found out, to our own surprise, my surprise too, they also use enormous amount of water. The water consumption is very high. And then, of course, the digitalization and rising demand for minerals and, you know, rare earths, and they’re all needs to be packaged into this. So lastly, I just want to say, I think you cannot. It has to be a conscious effort. So this is why it’s good to have these kind of conversations around us. And we all go home and start saying, OK, now what do we do? I guess one is you need statistics. The e-commerce doesn’t have statistics. No one knows what is e-commerce, the size of e-commerce. The national statistical offices don’t collect e-commerce data. The digital economy is just like an invisible elephant in the room. So number one, you need to build statistics. Because otherwise, the government or anybody, we cannot say anything without nothing. And number two, I think we also maybe need to, I don’t know, I just thought about this while I was coming here. You know, it’s only a few platforms engaged in massively engaging e-commerce. Maybe we need to get these platforms to talk to each other and begin a conversation around less packaging and less plastic and wrapping and all that kind of stuff. I mean, honestly, it’s in the interest of the platforms, too. Because if I hear a certain platform is very conscious about environment, I would tend to buy my goods from there, even if there’s a little premium to that. So it is not a bad idea for platforms, either. I know the iPhone 14 is coming out, or 15 is coming out, and they do a massive thing, oh, it’s all green, and it’s all environmentally sustainable. It’s a good pitch. So I think it’s not a bad idea to also encourage platforms to do something. Let me stop here.

Yasmin Ismail:
Thank you so much, Dr. Shamika. Very excellent food for thought for starting the conversation. I’m going to move quickly to my second speaker, an intervention by Nicolas. E-commerce in Colombia has experienced a remarkable surge in recent years. Supported by a myriad of national policies, as e-commerce is becoming one of Colombia’s drivers of the economy, has the government considered it? environmental impacts and what efforts or measures are being taken. The floor is yours.

Nicolas Palau:
Thank you. I’m so glad to be here and see so many friendly faces. Thanks to Shamika, Christian, Francois, and Jasmine for being here with me in this panel. I’m going to switch to Spanish because we do have interpretation and that’s a gift from a Colombian speaker. I was supposed to be delivering in English, but it’s really, there are many good reasons to switch to your mother tongue when there is interpretation. So I hope you don’t mind to get the channel switched. Thank you very much. In Colombia, in fact, the progress made by e-commerce has been impressive in recent years. The growth of e-commerce, both in monetary terms and in terms of volumes, has been especially large. And this has led to both the Colombian government and the various private producers who use e-commerce in Colombia have started to ask and wonder about the externalities of e-commerce. As the business grows, we are increasingly asking ourselves about potential effects, both negative and positive, on the environment. Colombia has, to answer Jasmine’s question directly, a series of initiatives, but none of them is directly related to e-commerce. We have a number of initiatives on the sustainable use of plastics, on packaging. However, we don’t have a holistic vision about the various environmental externalities that can be caused by this exponential increase in e-commerce. So more than answers, what we have are questions. And that is why we greatly value this initiative by cuts and we value these types of sessions where we’re starting to discuss the possible paths taken on e-commerce and their environmental impacts. And whether they merit a policy response, whether they merit a perspective from the angle of the international treaty that we’re negotiating here at the WTO. Testing, testing. Can you hear the English channel? This is the English interpreter. Can you hear the English channel? Yes. Okay. We’re supposed to be delivering this in English, but there are good reasons to do so. I think we’re fine now. Sorry to interrupt. Testing, testing. Okay. So, I’ll continue with body language. We do have a number of questions about the environmental impact, the potential environmental impact of this exponential growth of e-commerce we’ve experienced in Colombia and around the world. And these questions are all interlinked and Shamika has already mentioned some of them. They’re related to the use of cardboard. Indeed, according to our figures, more than 3 billion trees are used every year by e-commerce for packaging products that are traded through e-platforms. Not just cardboard, but also plastics. And plastics do play an important part of e-commerce waste. Not just in packaging, but also the use of resources, particularly the use of energy. Data servers and data centers and the infrastructure necessary for e-commerce to operate requires a significant amount of energy and a significant amount of water and other resources which must be accounted for in our discussions. Moreover, there are important questions associated to the use of fuels and the externalities associated to transporting e-commerce products. We don’t necessarily have the answer to this. We, for example, can’t be sure that these externalities are worse than those of traditional brick-and-mortar trade. However, we should ask ourselves what other impacts does e-commerce have as compared to other forms of trade in terms of the use of energy, of plastics, of cardboard. And as again was mentioned by Shamika, one of the central questions is associated to the last mile and the environmental impacts that are associated to the last mile. Another important question that perhaps hasn’t been yet mentioned by Shamika but I’m glad to know that you’re already working on figures and statistics. The last question has to do with the reversed supply chain. And here I’m referring to returns of goods that have not been used. And this varies greatly from country to country and it depends on the different consumption patterns among different countries. However, there are a number of figures that are well-known, for example, from the Association on Reversed Logistics. Up to 20% of… e-traded products end up as returns after purchase. In the case of apparel, those figures can rise up to 40%. These are figures from the United States. We don’t have figures for our country, but these figures do add to the use of fuels, the use of water, the use of plastics, cardboard, water, and energy. Not just this, but this seems to be a widespread practice, which is that most returns are not resold. Many of them are simply destroyed, which has an immediate impact on possible environmental impacts of the purchase. We also have questions related to noise, white noise, caused by data centers, for example, and other infrastructure projects that are the backbone of e-commerce. So right now in Colombia, rather than having cross, rather beyond our cross-cutting environmental provisions, we are beginning to look at e-commerce in a cross-cutting fashion and trying to differentiate e-commerce and its environmental impact and wondering about policies and even international cooperation projects that can be targeted for this matter. And I will stop here.

Yasmin Ismail:
Thank you so much, Nicolas. You added a few, I think, very also interesting points. You mentioned fuels, you mentioned reverse supply chains, and also the white noise to the list that has been started by Dr. Shameka. I will move now to my next speaker, Mr. Christian, please. How can environmentally sustainable e-commerce contribute to meeting the Paris Agreement goal of limiting temperature rise to 1.5 degrees Celsius from your perspective of a developed country, right? Thank you so much

Christian Bilfinger:
I’m going to use my perspective of a developed country the German So it’s going to be Germany full surprise First of all, thank you guys for being here, though It’s sunny outside. You heard the people having fun outside. I’m hope you guys having fun inside You all came to listen to an interesting panel plus a German talking about e-commerce So I’m going to reward you with two facts German style so 87% of Consumers in Germany regularly purchase goods and services via online marketplaces Just like you did during the pandemic just like I did yesterday Like you guys have done last week or will do next week 77% of companies in Germany conduct their businesses online, right? Not just online but also online and both of these numbers 87% and 77% are increasing Germany is ranked first in terms of e-commerce sales in Europe and six six largest market worldwide and obviously a change of that Magnitude right in the business to business and business to consumer environment Will have and already has a huge impact on on the environment and on climate change So this leads us to two questions, right? How? Can this new form of business be green or green and designed in a climate friendly way and to take a step back? What is the interplay of e-commerce with the climate debate, right? We have a lack of data, but I think we can pinpoint to some aspects Some of them have been mentioned already right with packaging materials We’ve got logistics and transport especially that last mile logistics and we have the energy use of data centers. But besides that, we also have the indirect impact, right? And Shamika, you mentioned that when you’re online, you sometimes just shop in order to shop, right? You’re bored, you just click on a few things, and if you don’t like them, you send them back. At the same time, consumer preferences are changing, right? A lot of us are more interested in a sustainable way of consumption, but in order to do that, we need the information. And marketplaces can play a huge way in nudging consumers to make the right choices when they nudge their brands to be transparent about their environmental impact and the impact of their supply chains. Now, obviously, there are many experts in this room. One is sitting at the left of me, who can speak much better about the connection between e-commerce and environmental risks. Luckily, I’ve been asked to talk about Germany. And in that case, I’m going to talk about strategy, regulation, and incentives on the business level. So let’s start with strategy. Germany is pursuing a sustainable approach to digitalization and has focused its digital agenda on environmental policy. That comprises of a strategic framework for sustainably shaping the digital transformation. It’s about steps that are targeted at digital business models, provisions of information on sustainability aspects of consumers—so the thing that I just talked about in terms of nudging—in online businesses, and the increased consumption of energy and resources due to data transmissions. Strategy is one point, and that strategy also includes a whole list of 70 regulation points that are supposed to be enacted step-by-step. So let’s start with regulation. I mean, it’s safe to say that a more widely used digital economy is an important driver, or can be an important driver, of sustainable and inclusive business. development. If it’s done, right. And for that we need regulation. And I’m not going to list those 70 steps of regulation that we are enacting and planning to enact in Germany, but I’ll give you two examples. One on the European level and one on the national level. So let’s start with the European level. We talked about plastics. So I’m just going to quickly mention the use single use plastics directive. Or in German, the Verpackungsgesetz. Sorry to the translators. Let’s just use the use single use plastics directive. And that is about banning certain single use plastics. It’s about the design of plastic products and it’s about the recycling circle, right. So it’s about the three dimensions of a product. So that’s key. That’s one thing. If we go to the national level, we have Germany’s Federal Climate Change Act. I’m going to spare you of the German name. That’s way worse than Verpackungsgesetz. And with that, Germany aims at gradually reducing emissions and has set the target year of 2045 of achieving greenhouse gas neutrality. So a balance between the greenhouse gas emissions and the removal of such emissions from the atmosphere. And that sounds a little boring if you just hear those two lines, but it’s in so far important as it has enshrined Germany’s emissions reducing goals into national law, right. So the government and every actor in Germany is accountable. It’s not just an aim, it’s the law in Germany. So that’s an important step. An even more important step though happens at the business level and at the incentive level. So companies and platform providers can create incentives and are already creating incentives to break this down for their supply chains and also from consumers. I mean, Germany is the host of at least in Germany, quite known e-commerce platforms such as Zalando or Otto or Mediamarkt. And these platforms are voluntarily starting to report sustainability targets. So they report on greenhouse gas emission reductions in comparison to what they did five years ago, in comparison to what they did 10 years ago. Because on the one hand, of course, because of regulation, but also because it’s increasingly becoming part of their business model, right? It’s not just greenwashing. It’s what consumers want to know and need to know to make informed decisions. And back to the nudging part, when companies are transparent and e-commerce platforms are transparent about the emissions of their platforms, but also the brands that are on their platforms, consumers are incentivized to go to these platforms and consume through those platforms. And again, it is voluntary projects that are really on the cutting edge there. We have a couple of platforms that have started this initiative called the Fashion Leap for Climate, where these platforms invited approximately 250 of their brands and brand partners to set sustainability targets in line with climate science. And that’s a big thing, right, because you start to create momentum, right, when 50 companies have that information on the marketplace. Other companies have to follow suit, right, because consumers see this information, okay, this company is not offering the information that I want, but company A, B, C are, now I have to do that too. So it’s that voluntary momentum shifting that really plays an important role. So, in order to reach that important or the important goals of the 2030 Agenda for Sustainable Development, it really shows that we need a multi-stakeholder approach. We need the multilateral level, we need regulation, we need strategy, but we need that business incentive level, I guess, most importantly. And Germany is supporting all sides of the story in Germany. And I guess the next question I’m going to be asked is what we do internationally. So, that’s what we do nationally so far. Thank you.

Yasmin Ismail:
Thank you so much, Christian, for this wonderful overview at the national level. I’m going to move to the private sector representative on the panel, François. Established in 1999, MercadoLibre is now the leading online marketplace in Latin America. When did MercadoLibre realize the impact of its business on the environment? When is important? And what is it doing about it today? Please, the floor is yours.

François Martins:
All right. I was about to switch to Spanish, but since I already did switch, all my notes… Sorry, can you ask him to switch on the mic? Otherwise, we can’t hear him. Thank you. Pardon. Sorry about that, Mr. Speaker. …to Spanish. Also, I’m going to stick to English. Don’t worry. You won’t need that. Yeah. So, MercadoLibre… MercadoLibre… MercadoLibre… MercadoLibre… MercadoLibre… MercadoLibre… MercadoLibre… MercadoLibre… MercadoLibre… MercadoLibre… MercadoLibre… MercadoLibre… …in Argentina, and just three months after that, in Brazil and Mexico. And it really noticed that it had an impact on environmental issues, that its business… would have impacts from the get-go, right? So as long as, immediately when you grow, you can see the impacts, especially if you have vehicles, you have packaging, you do see exactly, you have the experience that you had, suddenly you have a bunch of boxes at your home, you need to return goods, and you can see very quickly how impactful that can be. So what begun developing within the company was a culture of trying to mitigate those impacts since the get-go, okay? So this is really something that’s very cultural with this company, and it is really embraced by our purpose of democratizing commerce and financial services. That second part came later, but it still has the same purpose for us, and that’s throughout Latin America. So what we do, really, as a business, and one of our objectives is to bridge the social, economic, and geographical gaps that this region has, and for that, you need to reach out to people, not only those who want to buy stuff, but also those who want to sell things, and you need to give them the means to do that, right? And so this is our main challenge, and one of the results we’re getting so far is, and those are numbers of 2021, so they’re fairly outdated at this point, over 900,000 families and over 500,000 SMEs depend on us for their revenues. So that’s a fairly nice impact, and there’s one number that is always a pride generator for me. If we were a country, we would be the second largest in the region since we have 142 million users. So that’s pretty good to give you a dimension of what this company is. So we know this growth generate challenges, especially environmental challenges. And what we do to start addressing them is really try and measure them, know exactly what we’re talking about. It’s not just, oh, I see a bunch of boxes, I need to do something about boxes. No, how many boxes are there? Where are those boxes? Where are they coming from? So we’re trying to do that and I’ll ask Yasmin afterwards to make our impact report available. It’s in English so you can all have access to the numbers that we have in there. And that measuring really connects with something that we call addressing the issues from the inside. We do that connecting with our business. So we don’t do environmental management and impact mitigation just because it needs to be done. We do it connecting with our business as a way of developing our business and enabling those families and SMEs to keep on growing. And so we have three pillars for that. The first of them is sustainable mobility. So we have trucks that move on gas and not gasoline, so natural gas. We have electrical vehicles that go to people’s houses and deliver parcels. We try to use in a more sustainable way the airways that we use, the airplanes. We do have airplanes. We don’t send a truck over 10,000 kilometers across Brazil, for instance. So we try to do that. Second thing is we have energy management within our business. So the way we power our business, and you have a very good point about data centers, but also our logistic facilities, our offices, we try to power them with solar energy. And I’ll give you a couple of numbers right now. And the third pillar is circular materials, again, the boxes and the plastics and the bags, et cetera. So at this point, We don’t have plastic anymore, so we have something that’s similar, but it’s compostable, biodegradable. And we try not to use paperboard boxes. And one thing that we do that I always found very interesting and it took us some investment in terms of culture is that, for instance, if you buy a vacuum cleaner, you’ll get it in its own box. We’ll just put the address on it and send it to you like that. No box of our own with our brand, none of that. No need to put the box in the box. So we spare a box there. We try to do that. And it’s also good for us because we don’t have to buy another box. So it’s good for everyone. So let me just end this round with this information. Also, with all of this, what we do is we understand there’s some more to do. There is still carbon being emitted. So we do invest in the forests of our region, not only in Brazil and Argentina and Colombia and other places in Mexico, in order to sequester those emissions. And just to give you some numbers, some proof points about all this that I’ve been talking about. So 40% of our operation is powered by renewable energies, which is, I think, pretty good for our region. Twenty-one logistics facilities and offices migrated to renewable energies until last year, and we’re still working on it. We have over 1,500 electrical vehicles. That’s 45% more than 2021. So those are numbers from 22, right? 5.7 million parcels were delivered by those electrical vehicles, right, and moved by those other trucks that I mentioned. That’s 100% recyclable, reusable, and compostable packaging. So nothing is just being sent to other generations, everything is being recycled in this life cycle. And 85% recuperation of materials in our operations, the example of the boxes, and over 6,000 hectares of biomed regeneration with a program that we call Regenera America, America’s Regeneration, investing in forests and other sustainable ways of sequestering and mitigating our carbon footprint. So the when is since the beginning to answer your question, since forever.

Yasmin Ismail:
Thank you so much, François. I think you need to talk to other platforms about this. Thank you so much. I think you will all agree that I was very generous with the first round in terms of time. But I’m also very, very conscious that we are all interested in listening from the floor in this session. So I have a challenge that I need to finish our second round of interventions in 10 minutes. So I will count on your interest with me, please. The second round of interventions I’m going to start, and this one is the focus on development. Dr. Shamika, it can be deducted from the first round of interventions that a lot more needs to enhance our understanding of the e-commerce environment nexus. What do you see as key next steps to achieve this objective? And what is the role of the different stakeholders in this context?

Shamika Sirimanne:
How many minutes I have? Like one minute. Two minutes. Two minutes. Okay. Anyway, I think a lot of this conversation we have had here, and we already had a lot of this conversation. I think, as I said, the data… It’s not there, so it’s very difficult to measure anything if you don’t have data. And if you don’t have a methodology to measure along the supply chain, what is green and what is not. So this we need to do. And I think it is actually heard, it is not just one party’s responsibility. This is everybody’s responsibility. The government needs to take steps. I mean, you explained, Christiane, what at the regional level, at the EU level, at the national level, and I saw it in many countries, and also at provincial levels. Some countries, certain provinces are much more green than others, and they will take steps. An example is the US. The businesses, I mean, it’s also good for businesses, and that’s what we heard from you, Mercado Libre. I’m going to buy my next vacuum cleaner from you for sure. So it’s that, and the consumers too. We also have a responsibility. We also need to check and see who is green, and maybe we’ll have to pay a little more, but we need to think, okay, let’s save our planet and ourselves as a species. Now, lastly, I want to say, because we work with women entrepreneurs, we have a E-Trade for All Women partnership, and it is to bring women, and it’s not just training women to do accounting marketing, but a lot to do mentoring, networking. And we find it’s among women. They pay a lot more attention to the sustainability and green and saving the planet things. I would not go into examples. We have a woman, Vita Sari, from Indonesia. She has this Tenun Ibun, the platform, and she’s very much into recycling. And we have a woman entrepreneur, Foluso Ojo, and she runs the TrueQ platform from Nigeria. She’s very much into aggregate orders, match them with. suitable drivers, and to reduce unnecessary trips, to reduce congestion, you know, the traffic jams. And she used route optimization, you know, I mean, there are technologies that you can do. And I find, we find again and again, I don’t know what it is, maybe we women are more attuned to saving the planet and also saving the species. Maybe it’s that, but I see among women entrepreneurs, there is that consciousness of we need to do something for the planet. So, I mean, hats off to them. I mean, they’re not massive platforms. They’re small entrepreneurs, but they do very, very good work.

Yasmin Ismail:
Hats off for women. Thank you so much for the very brief second intervention. Very helpful and excellent summary. I’ll move to my second speaker. Nicholas, from Columbia’s perspective, what are the challenges confronting developing countries in the design and implementation of environmentally sustainable e-commerce policies or other measures? And what type of support do you think are useful for NGOs and the donor community to offer you?

Nicolas Palau:
Thank you, Jasmine. So, this question about development is the most difficult to answer. I think it’s already been said by Shamika, by Francois. Any measure, voluntary measures or regulatory measures which may be implemented regarding e-commerce cannot be against the businesses which are created around e-commerce in developing countries. We’ve been talking about SMEs or families which depend on e-commerce, the impact of e-commerce on women in our countries. And in developing countries, oftentimes small companies or small vulnerable entrepreneurs see an opportunity in e-commerce which they cannot usually find in brick-and-mortar businesses. They can export to places which they didn’t even plan to. They can have opportunities, business opportunities, which would not have been opened if it were not for e-commerce, and that has an impact as well, but they have to take into account environmental impact. So how can countries cooperate in this regard? I think there are two lines of action. First, information. We all agree that we need to measure impact. How many boxes, how many more boxes is a key element to decide which is the most relevant measure in terms of public policy to be implemented, which is the most cost-effective, which is the measure that will have the least impact on development of these SMEs, but will have the biggest environmental impact. So we do need that information in order to decide upon measures, and we do not have that data at the moment. A second line of action is public policy, and I’d like to send a message on discussions on international treaties on e-commerce. These discussions have not taken into account all these elements during negotiations here at the WTO. We’re negotiating an e-commerce treaty, which is very important, and it’s crucial to find out how countries are going to enable and facilitate e-commerce, but nothing is said about potential impacts and how countries can respond in terms of policy. When WTO members negotiated and agreed the Marrakech Agreement, they established a series of environmental principles in the preamble and a big environmental exception in Article 20 and similar articles, but nothing else is there, and very often we complain that much is discussed. discussed at the WTO on the environment and trade and environment and now that we’re negotiating a new treaty is something that should not be an afterthought, it’s something that should be part of parcel of the negotiations from the start.

Yasmin Ismail:
Thank you so much. You mentioned SMEs and I think, yeah, finally it’s in the discussion and also you mentioned public policy and integrating this in negotiations and discussions on e-commerce in the WTO, so thank you so much, Nicolas. I’ll move to my next speaker, Christian. How can BMZ support developing countries to build environmental sustainability in e-commerce both bilaterally and in collaboration with multilateral organizations?

Christian Bilfinger:
Thank you, Jasmine. It seems to be a recurring issue. Thank you, Jasmine. You asked us prior to this panel to be a well-behaved panel and we promised that and that includes being short with our interventions, so we’ll try our best, including me, to do that now. I’ll try to break down this intervention to short a few points. So maybe the first point is that obviously the sustainable development goals and the Agenda 2030 can only be reached with increased digitalization at the global level, right, but at the same time we need to avoid the zero-sum game between the e-commerce and digital economic model and protecting the environment and the climate, and Germany is trying to do that and trying to support developing countries on different levels, and I’ll try to speak a little about the macro level and a little about the micro level. Let me start with the macro level. Our firm belief is that trade is critical for sustainable development or can be critical for sustainable development, right, but we need to… get the rules right, and we need to get the processes of rulemaking right. And we support the WTO Joint Statement Initiative on e-commerce and the need for regulation. However, developing countries’ participation in global rulemaking, such as the GSI, has to increase, right? We need developing countries to not just be rule-takers, but be rule-makers, and we need to structure our processes in international multilateral rulemaking in such a way that those countries can participate in a meaningful way, right? We can’t storm ahead. We as developed countries, with our agendas, and leave those countries behind. No one can be left behind, because these issues will determine the future economic business models of the world, really, of every single country. So we need developing countries to be able to be rule-makers and not just rule-takers. That is the multilateral level. Still macro, but on the national level, we also need to adjust our strategies, right? So Germany has just—especially my ministry—has just published a new Africa strategy. We do publish strategies on a regular basis, so this is a new strategy, the Africa strategy, but it’s quite good, because there’s a strong emphasis on supporting our partner countries, our African partner countries, in digitalization, on the digitalization of their economies. And this includes the improvement of economic and political framework conditions for the digital transformation, the creation of digital markets, and safe and secure Internet access. And that brings me to the micro level—I guess I’ve got 30 seconds left. We usually have those huge lists of projects that we implement in different countries and regions through our great implementing agencies. CGIZ that some of you guys might be aware with. I’m just going to present one quick example, and then I’ll leave you guys to it. And it’s the Pan-African e-commerce initiative. And what I like about the Pan-African e-commerce initiative is that I’m responsible for it, but also that it addresses very specific issues on the ground, right? It’s not just about rulemaking. It’s about working closely with SMEs, and especially women-led SMEs, to green their e-commerce business models, to see the challenges that they aren’t confronted with on a daily basis, right? We talk about these challenges, sustainable packaging, transport, warehousing, energy, logistics, legislation, right, just to name a few, and sort of bringing those underground problems then also to the regulatory level, right? So it works both ways. And we try to do that with SMEs on a daily basis. And I think that is key, because we see a great risk, right? Not all countries are equally prepared to reap the benefits of the new digital world. And a barrier to the digital economy will become a barrier to the economy itself in the not-too-distant future. And we need to make sure that those countries that have been left behind by the last economic revolutions are not left behind by the next and current economic revolution. And we do that at a macro level, right, in our multilateral settings. We do that at the national level. We do that in collaboration with great partners, such as UNCTAD, who do great work with women-led e-commerce entrepreneurs, for example, but also through their reporting. We need ownership by developed countries, such as ours, but also by developing countries or in-between countries, such as Colombia, who are a bright spot in that regard. And we need ownership from businesses as well, right? Because they are on the cutting edge. So Mercado Libre, many thanks for that. And my time is up. Thank you so much.

Yasmin Ismail:
Thank you so much, François. MercadoLibre, you have presence in 18 countries. Each country has its own specificities, but what are the common challenges that MercadoLibre faces when promoting sustainable e-commerce business and consumer behavior? And what are the key lessons that you learned?

François Martins:
Thank you. So I’ll use the full 15 seconds that I have left for that. We have two big things here. First of all, there’s a common aspect that probably among all Latin American countries, all countries have huge wildlife preservation reserves and large indigenous populations, very representative indigenous populations, and also very representative African populations. And so this is one interesting aspect. It’s not only about the environment, it’s also about the kind of human that you have present in those countries and how they are part of the solution if we care to address them. So this is something that we’re trying to do and is common to all the countries in which we’re present. And for that, we actually, I’ll give just one example. We have the sustainable products section that we launched in 2019, and it has over one million products listed. So it’s pretty large. And what we’ve noticed, it has generated a lot of wealth, for instance, from Afro-entrepreneurship, especially in Brazil and Colombia. And that kind of entrepreneurship generates unique products. So you’re not only giving access. Remember that I said that we thrive to. democratize commerce, well, you’re not only democratizing commerce, you’re also bringing new stuff into it and you’re giving those populations a means of subsistence and, you know, not leaving the places where they are, not abandoning that culture, but bringing that culture to the rest of us that are not really accessing it and thus not valuing it. And I think, and I will conclude with this, I’ll leave part of this out so we can have a better discussion afterwards, what we really are seeing, and this is probably the biggest lesson learned, is that we need to, again, democratize a new kind of economy. We need more people that are willing, as you said, Shemika, willing to pay a bit more for a different kind of product, for a different kind of service. And if everything goes well, eventually we don’t need to pay more for that, because that will be the norm. That will be what is available. And it doesn’t come at a premium, it just comes at its right price, not necessarily more expensive. Right? So this is probably where we’re headed to, and this is the perception that we have about what we need to do moving forward.

Yasmin Ismail:
Thank you so much. I’ll put my voice to your call as well. God, this is even more amazing than I thought it would be. All right. Let’s open the floor. We have a good almost 20 minutes for any questions from the floor. I think we had very good interventions. We’re now counting on you for a very good discussion. Please go ahead. Please. You can also discuss among yourselves too. Yes. We will do so.

Audience:
Hi. I’m Silvia Serskan. I’m with the OECD. And first of all, I just wanted to thank the panel for a really interesting discussion. And as Sharmika said, I think this is an issue that really affects all of us. And I just had two questions. I think one, first around the issues that Christian was mentioning, maybe about how do you create those incentives? Like consumers, of course, have these demands, and we would want, yeah, maybe platforms to respond to some of that. And do you see two issues here? Because as Francais was mentioning, platforms are trying to take a lot of initiatives to reduce their environmental impact. So how should that be communicated? But then the second issue is, of course, you have a lot of different producers or firms selling their products through these platforms, including SMEs. Should they also be taking that step in terms of reporting their own footprint? So how do we create the right incentives there? Second question may be more linked to trade policy, I guess, to all of you. If you were to think, what would be like the one or two key trade policy areas that you would like to focus on? And again, here picking up on something that Christian was saying around all the plastics initiatives in Germany, I think these are policies that are most likely created outside the trade ministry. So how do we create that linkage, and what is the role for the discussions here at the WTO? So thank you.

Yasmin Ismail:
Thank you so much, Sylvia. I’m going to take a round of questions and then have a round of answers. Please, Torbjörn, go ahead.

Audience:
Many thanks also to all the panelists for excellent interventions. Quick question to Francois. I mean, the business model of MercadoLibre is really to have a lot of different suppliers using your online marketplace. And you mentioned that if we buy – or Shamika, when she buys her vacuum cleaner from you, it comes with the original package material from the provider. So, to what extent can Mercoder Libre actually have an impact on the packaging material that all the suppliers are using on your platform? And how do you ensure that they are actually buying into your strategy for more sustainability?

Yasmin Ismail:
Thank you so much, Jorgen, for a very good question. One final question, then round of answers. Please go ahead.

Audience:
Thank you so much. My name is Claudia Hofmann. I’m with GIZ. I actually have two questions. One is to François, so this whole – You don’t have to take notes. No, I mean, anyone can answer that question, but maybe you’re best placed. So when you’re talking about greening measures for e-commerce platforms and other measures you’re actually implementing, one aspect is also competitiveness. So what you read over and over in articles is that countries can become more competitive by using greening measures. So I was wondering if you have some examples or if you could share with us how Mercado Libre is becoming more competitive compared to other platforms. And the second question is for Mr. Palau. So I was wondering, you were making a few references to the joint statement initiative, and from what you were saying, I understand that you feel there’s a need to include also greening aspects or green aspects into that initiative. So I was wondering if you could elaborate a bit on that and maybe also talk about risks of including such greening aspects versus risks of not including this green topic into the joint statement initiative negotiations. Thank you.

Yasmin Ismail:
Thank you so much. So Sylvia’s question was a little bit more general, not to a specific speaker, right? So I’m going to start with the specific questions and then give a round of interventions for those who would like to answer to your question, all right? So let’s start with Torbjörn’s question, please, François.

François Martins:
All right. So thank you for your question, Torbjörn. So, how do we make our providers, first of all, we have providers and we have sellers, so our platform is what we call a 3P model, so you have somebody else using our platform to sell stuff, right? And when I was using the example of the vacuum cleaner, I was referring to a seller that is using our fulfillment facility. Fulfillment is a place where you leave your inventory as a seller with a third party, third party is us in this case, and we’re managing the picking, the packing, and the shipping, you’re focusing on selling, right? So in this case, we’re deciding what packaging goes. That’s fairly simple, is if you want to use the service, you need to submit to our policies regarding packaging, that’s the first thing. If you’re not running your packaging through us, then you still have some freedom, but fulfillment or other solutions in Brazil, logistical solutions where we can manage the packaging cover, I think, 96% of all that’s sold. So we have a pretty large impact here. And the other thing is for some sellers, we even tell them because of the volume, how much they are seen by users, we tell them you need to use this packaging because it has brands, because it has some features, because it’s less polluting, etc., etc. So we do use some levers, some very, very strong levers to get everyone to buy into our strategy, our green strategy.

Yasmin Ismail:
Yeah. Thank you so much, Francois. Nicolas, you had another question by Claudia, and Francois as well, by the way. Yeah. I would like to proceed with Claudia’s question. You tell me. Go ahead. Okay.

Nicolas Palau:
Yeah, so the question, if I remember it correctly, is how is Mercado Libre becoming more competitive based on its green strategy? And I apologize, but I cannot leave this out. We didn’t use the name of a forest. Someone else’s forest exists. We do have a good strategy that helps us. First of all, we connect to new populations that wouldn’t be on the Internet, that wouldn’t be selling online, that wouldn’t be buying online. So we actually increase the total available market for our users. That is one example where we actually, we’re not leading, we’re the only ones there. So this is very good for us. The other thing is you’re attracting users that care about this, and those users are not just buying green or sustainable products, they’re also buying other kinds of stuff on your platform. So this generates more revenue for our platform. And so what you do basically is, I want Nicolás to come to Mercado Libre, buy something, I don’t know, a toothbrush, a wooden toothbrush, right? For instance. But he also needs all sorts of other things for his home, and he just thought by going through the listings that he needs this and this and that, he’ll buy everything with us. So this helps us be more competitive. And I think the last dimension of this would be that as you show more local content, because this is all about local content in the end, you become better and more identified with the local users, the local population. and people actually want to buy stuff with you because they kind of trust you more than they would somebody else who’s not as well identified with them as you are.

Yasmin Ismail:
Thank you so much, Francois, Nicolas, your turn. Thank you, Yasmin, thank you, Francois.

Nicolas Palau:
Regarding Claudia’s question, it is related to Silvia’s question about the response, and I have two messages. First, we can think of a number of possibilities of how to include in an international treaty on e-commerce a number of provisions that can be valuable from the environmental standpoint. We can make it more expensive to use certain products through tariffs, or we can reduce their value through other tariffs. We can also think of exceptions for subsidies that improve environmental responsibility. We can also think of ways of requiring information and notifications from countries about their trade via e-platforms. However, the most important thing is that we don’t know, so we don’t know what the right answers are. It might end up being worse than the solution that we want to give. So that’s my second message, which is that we believe that in these discussions on e-commerce as part of the WTO-JSI, we still need more people. We need more participants in the debates. Just like Francois is answering most questions, I would like to see Francois also sitting down, I would even go as far as to say in our negotiations, because we don’t have all the answers. We are a set of trade experts, and we have a limited understanding of environmental consequences and conditions. So we would like to see more entrepreneurs and more pioneering companies like Mercado Libre who may have a thing or two to teach. the rainforest company. So there could be more participation and that is why we support the COTS initiative, which is to have these types of discussions in the public forum, because we feel that there is something missing. We need to better inform our trade policy discussions.

Yasmin Ismail:
Thank you so much. And would you like to take Claudio’s question? Which one? The one on greening aspects initiatives, whether any of your policies included green aspects, greening aspects initiatives. Sure. Yes, it is related to my answer. All right. Then more questions. We have a little bit more time. Second round of questions, anyone would like to take the floor? Please go ahead. But you will have to use the mic, please.

Audience:
To make my question in English, I know I should switch to Spanish, but I’m sorry because I have it in English in my mind. So my question is related to the issue of e-waste. So one of the sources of pollution and directly related to e-commerce is e-waste. So we have seen programs from some e-commerce companies that are trying to somehow tackle this issue. So we have the take-back policies sometimes or some reuse and repair policies on the other side of partnerships with local communities that recycle and et cetera. My question, especially for MercadoLibre and for Christian and for Chameka, is about standards. From my ignorance, I don’t know whether we have specific standards that manage this issue of e-waste related to e-commerce. Thank you.

Yasmin Ismail:
Can you introduce yourself, please?

Audience:
Sorry. I’m Gustavo Guarín from the Colombian Mission to the WTO.

Yasmin Ismail:
Thank you, Gustavo. Thank you so much. Yeah, I’m afraid I can’t. I’ve been thinking so hard about the OECD colleagues’ question, so if anyone else wants to take the e-waste question, I would go back to the OECD. Please, definitely. You can definitely go back to the OECD questions. Yeah. Okay. Sorry. Sorry. Yeah.

Christian Bilfinger:
A little autistic there. I would like to come to the question about how to create incentives for CO2 footprint reporting. I mean, this really goes back to the question of avoiding zero-sum games, right? And first, I mean, a goal is that we need to avoid that SMEs are crowded out of markets because of reporting incentives or reporting regulations. And I think one key thing that we as governments can get better at is creating common reporting standards, because there’s nothing worse than an SME—well, there’s many worse things, but one of the bad things is being an SME and being confronted with five, six different reporting regimes. One might be too much, right? So one thing, we as governments need to do a better job of creating common reporting standards. The other point is sequencing, right? Sequencing in the sense of the size of companies, but also the depth of reporting obligations. I think that’s key. We have the example of what we require. SMEs or what require companies in their supply chains in the supply chain due diligence act of Germany Where that applies at this? From from just for for companies of a certain size. I think that’s important and the other point is technical assistance, right? So we need to listen to to SMEs. We need to listen to companies What are the challenges that you are confronting on a day-to-day basis and then design our programs to help them accordingly? We do that with GIZ From being that perspective, but I’m sure that we can do a better job Also when it comes to donor coordination lots of things that we can do better in order to avoid these zero-sum games Thank you, and this is how I avoided answering the e-waste question

Yasmin Ismail:
Dr. Shamika, please you wanted to also share your thoughts on this. Yeah, two things, but I come to the US

Shamika Sirimanne:
Come to the US because I really don’t know much about the US I think maybe Toby knows next year, but I will I will I will say a bit I think you asked a very important question Is it the trade ministry only and I think Nicola you also start to say, you know There are other parts of government involved in in this in this work on the in digital This is what we see because we we have this we do diagnostics in countries to see how ready Countries are to engage in the e-commerce and the digital economy and it’s not the mandate of one ministry You know, we have to bring that it’s the first time when we go to countries We assemble the trade ministries the ICT ministries We bring the regulators We bring the central banks because they are the ones who are dealing with payment systems and then of course a private sector and you know large array of And also CSO because they also have a lot of say to say Things to you know to weigh in so we find many of these This technologies, you know, they cut across many ministries so Sometimes we don’t realize it here like for example, you know, you the data governance issues that you talk about in the WTO. I think when you walk into a country, it’s not most of the time, it’s not the trade ministry who looks after data governance issues at all. So it’s extremely important to have that in mind as we move forward with this new technology. And then regulations, incentives, what’s the balance? I mean, honestly, I don’t know what’s the balance, but it’s extremely important to have regulations. I know people always think, oh my God, it’s regulations, it’s just a pain. But that’s the only way, public sector has a responsibility, they need to regulate, and the incentives they also need to create. And then the private sector has, Mercado Libre, you told us, you have voluntarily taken on things to do, and you have created your own standards. So these are all important, it’s not one or the other. I mean, honestly, if things are not regulated, these single use plastics that the rules that not only Germany, but also Kenya has, and we have seen immediately once the rule went into effect, you know, everybody has to abide by it. And that’s one way of doing it. And then lastly, the e-waste and e-waste of the standards. I don’t know, I think I will talk to you because normally the standards are done by the UNEC Economic Commission for Europe. They are the standard developers in the trade area. I will connect you with them. But I don’t know, maybe Tobin knows something, maybe you please say something. No, no, before Tobin, you say something. But listen, everyone. If you want to know about any of these things, everything, you please come to our e-week. It is from the 4th to 8th December, and it is meeting on shaping the future of the digital economy. Like, I was just going from one room to the other room. I was thinking, wow, there are sessions that we are going to take up on many of these issues. So that’s another place in December that you need to please come together.

Yasmin Ismail:
Tobias, you had a question. Great bridge. Thanks for that. And by the way, Christian will be leading one of the sessions on this very topic, so there will be a way to continue the discussion. No, but the e-waste thing, this is an area where I think especially now UNITAR and ITU have worked very closely together to try to obtain better statistics in this area and to see how better to advance it. We’re working with them on our next report. But it’s still the case that in most digital devices, the amount of recycling is very limited. Again, EU is leading here, but globally, it’s dismally small. So there’s a need to look very broadly at this issue and see what can you do to improve. And I think also when talking about – I was very intrigued by what Nicolas said about if you’re thinking about what could be done in the trade context, this is another typical area where there are multiple ministries involved. So I think here it’s an opportunity also where WTO and UNCTAD can complement each other, and perhaps we can offer additional, broader types of discussion that are not directly linked to trade negotiations, but can help build the awareness and understanding that can then feed into the mindset of people sitting in the WTO doing this kind of thing. We’re all learning in this process, so we need to come together and see how we best find a solution. Thank you. Thank you so much, Torbjörn and François. You wanted to also say something about the previous question.

François Martins:
A very quick note, actually, because I agree with Christian’s point to say that reporting is a burden, so it’s a cost. It takes up time, it takes up money, it takes up a lot of your energy as a business person. So it needs to be handled with care, since such obligations can impair an entrepreneur’s ability to make money. move forward. In the case of SMEs, if they’re using marketplaces such as Mercado Libre or others, we’re well-placed to help give some visibility on how sustainable these small and medium businesses are, just to help. So we do gather some information about them, and we use that information to report. So we’re really reporting about our ecosystem, not just the company, the entire ecosystem. But it will be a limited vision of what they’re doing, because they’re not operating just with us. But yeah, I wanted to mention that, because it’s an important point to be able to balance that kind of obligation with the fact that these people need to still exist tomorrow after the reporting.

Yasmin Ismail:
Thank you so much. I think we’re coming to the end, and we’re just three minutes late, so this is perfect. Thank you. Oh, no, no. A round of applause for you, please, to all our panelists for very good and excellent questions. So let me conclude with at least what I saw, and we can later add to the list together. But the conclusions I had, we need more data, we need more participants to the debate, and we need all stakeholders to engage in it. We need breaking silos between ministries. We need more proactive trade policies, and especially in the negotiations as well. We need to avoid a zero-sum game between e-commerce and environment through our policies. We need BMZ to support more of this work. And we need MercadoLibre to speak to other platforms. Thank you so much to excellent panelists and to the discussion, and I look forward to more discussions and more stakeholders engaged in this. Thank you so much.