Defence against the DarkWeb Arts: Youth Perspective | IGF 2023 WS #72

Speaker

The dark web and internet have various purposes beyond criminal activities, making them tools rather than the enemy. Machine learning, AI, improved encryption, blockchain, and advanced data analysis can assist in combating dark web crimes. Focus should be on technology and software companies rather than user identification. Mitigating the abuse of power in the fight against crime involves forming specialized cybercrime agencies and collaborating with academia. Mandatory cybersecurity education is necessary for all involved in handling data. Whistleblowing mechanisms should be encouraged. Law enforcement and politicians often lack understanding of the internet’s working, necessitating increased awareness. Diverse hiring can aid in understanding software misuse. A software registry and due diligence are crucial in identifying and preventing software misuse. These measures contribute to creating a safer online environment.

Maria Lipińska

During the discussion, the potential positive use cases of the dark web were explored, shedding light on how it might impact the future of online privacy and security. The speakers acknowledged the dark web’s negative reputation but emphasised that there are aspects of it that can be harnessed for beneficial purposes.

One of the main points raised was that the dark web enables anonymous communication and the exchange of information. This can be advantageous for individuals living in repressive regimes or facing persecution, allowing them to freely express themselves and access uncensored content. Moreover, whistleblowers and journalists can use the dark web to protect their sources and share sensitive information securely.

Furthermore, the dark web can facilitate the sale of legal goods and services. For example, it serves as a platform for anonymous online marketplaces where individuals can purchase legal products, such as books or art, without leaving a digital trail. The anonymity provided by the dark web can also empower activists and dissidents in countries where their activities might be monitored or suppressed.

In terms of online privacy and security, the dark web can act as a catalyst for innovation. The constant battle between criminals and law enforcement agencies pushes the development of advanced encryption techniques and cybersecurity measures. As a result, lessons learned from tackling the challenges presented by the dark web can be applied to enhance overall online privacy and security.

It is worth noting that the positives discussed should not overshadow the illegal and unethical activities that are prevalent on the dark web. Criminal networks, such as drug trafficking and illegal marketplaces, make up a significant portion of dark web activity. However, it is essential to consider the potential positive aspects and explore how they can be used responsibly.

In conclusion, the potential positive use cases of the dark web were evaluated, highlighting its impact on online privacy and security. While acknowledging its negative reputation, the discussion shed light on the anonymity and freedom of expression it offers individuals living in repressive regimes. Additionally, the dark web’s role in facilitating legal transactions and driving innovation in cybersecurity was recognized. Nonetheless, it is crucial to address the illegal activities on the dark web and ensure that any exploration of its positive side is done responsibly and ethically.

Izaan Khan

The analysis suggests that the dark web can offer benefits to certain individuals by providing anonymisation services. This can be particularly useful for individuals who require a high level of privacy and restricted access to a tightly knit community. Anonymity on the dark web can be critical for use cases such as journalists researching or communicating under extreme conditions, as well as for organising protests. Overall, the sentiment towards the dark web is positive, emphasising its potential advantages.

Furthermore, the analysis acknowledges that law enforcement agencies have achieved successful outcomes in cases involving cybercrimes on the dark web, citing notable examples like Silk Road and AlphaBay. However, it argues that eradicating privacy-enhancing technology, such as the dark web, is not necessary to combat cybercrime effectively. Instead, alternative strategies such as open source intelligence, infiltration, and hacking techniques can be employed to counter cybercrime without compromising privacy rights. The sentiment towards this argument is neutral.

The report also highlights the importance of people’s ability to protect their online privacy using technologies like the dark web. It advocates for a principles-based approach that balances the need for anonymity against other legitimate uses of anonymising technologies. This sentiment is positive, reflecting the belief that individuals should have the right to safeguard their privacy online.

Regarding regulation, the analysis suggests that regulations should be defined within the context of cybercrime. Existing regulations, including basic criminal law, already exist. However, it is noted that enforcement often involves a constant arms race between authorities and cybercriminals. The sentiment towards regulation is neutral, emphasising the need for a careful and nuanced approach.

It is also highlighted that technological solutions alone are inadequate in combating cybercrime. The dynamic nature of cybercrime requires innovative solutions that go beyond technology. Additionally, adopting more pragmatic approaches to regulation, such as controlling information flows and data retention, is seen as potentially beneficial.

The importance of trust in institutions within the complex regulatory environment is emphasised. It is believed that trust is crucial for navigating the challenges posed by emerging technologies and evolving regulatory frameworks.

The analysis further emphasises the significance of international cooperation and capacity building in effectively combating cybercrime. It notes that a lack of understanding of technology can hinder policy outcomes and enforcement efforts. Existing international cooperation organisations, such as Europol and Interpol, are highlighted as essential in the fight against cybercrime.

Additionally, the analysis raises the concern that tension between governments and encryption services will intensify. Governments may seek to undermine encryption for backdoor access, potentially restricting the privacy and security provided by these services. This development is viewed negatively, suggesting potential conflicts between privacy protections and government surveillance.

Furthermore, the report anticipates changes in the landscape of internet usage due to technological advancements and government regulations. It suggests that the emergence of new anonymisation services and government attempts to undermine encryption could reshape the way people use the internet.

In conclusion, the analysis highlights the benefits of the dark web in providing anonymisation services to individuals who require heightened privacy. It emphasises that eradicating privacy-enhancing technology is not necessary to combat cybercrime effectively. Instead, a principles-based approach that balances anonymity and other legitimate uses of technology is advocated. The report also emphasises the need for pragmatic regulation, international cooperation, and trust in institutions to address the challenges posed by evolving technology and cybercrime.

Pedro de Perdigão Lana

The discussion revolves around various aspects of internet governance, the dark web, and intellectual property. One argument highlights the importance of intellectual property in the context of internet governance. It is stated that intellectual property was among the first and most important discussions among civil society, the private sector, and the government in relation to internet governance. However, another argument challenges the dark web’s notorious reputation for intellectual property infringement. It argues that the portrayal of the dark web as a hub for criminal activity, particularly intellectual property crimes, can be misleading. The argument suggests that the dark web and deep web are not exclusively used for illegal activities, but are also repositories for various types of files, including copyrighted content.

Furthermore, the discussion explores the negative consequences of fear-driven policies and rigid copyright systems that have emerged due to concerns about the dark web. It is argued that several society reforms have been implemented based on the idea that piracy, including intellectual property infringement, is a widespread problem. These fear-driven policies may have inadvertently created obstacles to the very objectives they aim to promote.

The need for purposeful and careful regulation of the dark web is emphasized. While acknowledging the potential dangers associated with the dark web, the argument highlights that regulating it should take into account its positive uses, such as communication in environments where freedom of expression is restricted. It is suggested that regulation should be purposeful, avoiding undue restrictions on legitimate uses and considering the underlying reasons for regulation.

Additionally, the discussion examines the ethics and inequalities associated with academic documentation. It is noted that some academic ecosystems are unjust towards poorer countries, and publicly funded scientific publications charge high fees for access. This situation raises questions about the ethics of sharing academic documentation and the role of copyright in academia.

Furthermore, there is criticism directed towards the science publishing industry for charging exorbitant access fees despite being sustained by public funding. The argument highlights that the industry charges thousands of dollars for access to scientific publications, which creates barriers to knowledge dissemination and exacerbates economic inequalities.

In conclusion, the discussion revolves around the complexities and nuances of internet governance, the dark web, and intellectual property. It emphasizes the need for careful consideration when regulating the dark web, taking into account its positive uses. The discussion also raises important questions about the ethics and inequalities associated with academic documentation, as well as the practices of the science publishing industry. By critically examining these issues, it is hoped that a more balanced and effective approach to governance and regulation can be achieved.

Pavel Zoneff

The Tor software is a powerful tool used by millions of individuals worldwide to securely access the internet while protecting their right to privacy and information. It aids users in circumventing censorship and browsing the internet freely without facing restrictions imposed by governments or other entities.

It is important to note that only a small fraction of the traffic on the Tor network is directed to onion services, which are confined exclusively to the Tor network. This suggests that while censorship circumvention is a significant use case for Tor, it is not its sole purpose.

However, there is notable criticism levelled against privacy-preserving technologies such as Tor, Signal, and encryption platforms. Some individuals or entities misinterpret encryption as being associated with nefarious intentions, leading to unjust criticisms of these technologies. This misconception can result in policymakers lacking a comprehensive understanding of how privacy-preserving technology works.

As a consequence, governing laws are sometimes enacted that roll back international standards related to human rights, freedom of expression, and access to information. This situation is concerning, as it indicates a lack of education and awareness among policymakers about the importance of privacy and its relationship to fundamental human rights.

To counter this negative perception, it is crucial for proponents of privacy-preserving technology to engage in robust advocacy efforts. There is a need to raise awareness and educate policymakers about the benefits and importance of these technologies, as well as to dispel any misconceptions or unfounded fears surrounding their usage. By doing so, it may be possible to protect and preserve fundamental human rights in the digital age.

Overall, the Tor software plays a pivotal role in safeguarding internet users’ privacy and right to information. However, the criticism and lack of understanding around privacy-preserving technologies highlight the need for continued efforts to advocate for their importance and counter any unfounded narratives surrounding their usage.

Alina Ustinova

In this series of articles, Alina Ustinova delves into the controversial topic of the ‘dark web’ and aims to shed light on its implications, fears, and potential benefits. Ustinova, as the president of the Centre for Global IT Cooperation and the organiser of the Russian IJF and Youth Russian IJF, is well-positioned to explore this subject and provide valuable insights.

In her exploration, Ustinova acknowledges the widespread misunderstanding around the term ‘dark web’ and its incorrect association with negative activities. She seeks to clarify the misconceptions that people have by differentiating the dark web from the deep web, emphasizing their distinct characteristics. By doing so, she hopes to dispel the misconceptions and provide a clearer understanding of the dark web.

Ustinova also emphasises that the dark web potentially holds benefits beyond its negative connotations. She aims to uncover these potential benefits and challenges the prevailing notion that the dark web is purely a hub of illicit activities. By exploring the possibilities, Ustinova opens the door to a more nuanced understanding of the dark web and its potential uses.

On a different note, research indicates that young people, mainly millennials, exhibit bad habits in cybersecurity. It is observed that many youths are drawn to the dark web out of fascination for forbidden things and as a form of protest against the system. This insight highlights the complex motivations behind young people’s engagement with the dark web, indicating a deeper societal issue that needs to be addressed.

Additionally, the rise of Generation Alpha, growing up in the digital age, has led to their inherent reliance on the internet. Ustinova highlights that Generation Alpha, exposed to internet devices at a young age, considers the internet as a beneficial tool that is essential for various aspects of life. This has significant implications for education and the development of digital literacy skills.

In conclusion, Ustinova’s exploration of the dark web sheds light on its implications, fears, and potential benefits. By clarifying misconceptions and differentiating the dark web from the deep web, she offers a more comprehensive understanding of this often-misunderstood realm of the internet. The insights gained from Ustinova’s analysis also highlight the complex motivations behind young people’s engagement with the dark web and underline the importance of digital literacy skills in the modern age.

Abraham Fiifi Selby

The dark web, a part of the internet accessed through special software, presents a range of risks and benefits for users. It contains websites that are not indexed by traditional search engines, making it a haven for illegal activities such as the sale of drugs, stolen data, and hacking tools. However, it is important to note that not all aspects of the dark web are associated with criminal activity.

One argument suggests that using the dark web can be dangerous for ordinary users, unless used properly. This is due to the specific risks involved, including exposure to malware, scams, and illegal activities. Dark web tools are not encrypted and can be monitored by third parties, potentially compromising user privacy and security. Nevertheless, another viewpoint asserts that the dark web can also be used for legal and meaningful purposes if used correctly. In fact, the dark web is not exclusively for criminal activity and, when utilized wisely, it can actually provide protection for users. It is essential for ordinary users to learn how to navigate the dark web safely in order to avoid these risks and experience the potential benefits it offers.

Regulating the dark web is seen as a complex task for law enforcement agencies. While there is a need to investigate and prosecute organizations that engage in criminal activities on the dark web, developing effective regulations is challenging. The dark web operates on an anonymous network that is difficult to trace, requiring specialized strategies and tools to combat illegal activities. However, governments and law enforcement agencies are taking steps towards regulating the dark web. For instance, the FBI shut down the Silk Road, one of the largest dark web marketplaces, in 2013. In 2020, the UK government announced plans to introduce new legislation aimed at giving enforcement more powers to investigate and prosecute dark web crimes.

Education and awareness are highlighted as key elements in safely utilizing the dark web. As users are often unfamiliar with how to navigate the dark web safely, there is a need to provide education and raise awareness about the risks and best practices. Understanding the nature of the dark web is crucial in order to detect and mitigate potential threats. Creating awareness about the dark web can help users make informed decisions and protect themselves from the dangers associated with it.

Despite its association with criminal activities, the dark web can also be utilized for good purposes. People can leverage the anonymity and privacy provided by the dark web to conduct research and share information about sensitive topics without fear of censorship or surveillance. This highlights the potential for the dark web as a platform for positive contributions to society.

In conclusion, the dark web presents a complex landscape with both risks and benefits. It is important for users to understand the dangers involved and learn how to navigate it safely. Regulating the dark web is a challenging task, but necessary to combat criminal activities. Education and awareness play an important role in safely utilizing the dark web, while also recognizing its potential for positive usage. By promoting responsible usage and implementing effective regulations, society can better harness the potential benefits of the dark web while minimizing its risks.

Audience

The analysis highlights several important points raised by the speakers. One speaker discussed the challenge of identifying cyber crime and used the analogy of a thief breaking into a house to illustrate the complexity involved. The speaker’s sentiment towards this challenge was negative, indicating the difficulty of understanding cyber crime.

Another speaker emphasized the need for consistency in global internet usage and regulation. They stressed the importance of establishing a common ground for internet governance and highlighted the different approaches taken by countries like China and Russia. The speaker’s sentiment towards this topic was positive, suggesting the necessity of a consistent approach.

A concern was expressed for marginalized communities in the context of internet governance. The speaker acknowledged that these communities often lag behind in internet access and usage, potentially exacerbating existing inequalities. The sentiment expressed towards this issue was one of concern, demonstrating an understanding of the potential marginalization.

Furthermore, research findings revealed that millennials tend to have poorer cyber security habits compared to older generations. This observation underscores the need for increased awareness and education on cyber security, particularly targeting younger individuals.

Lastly, there was a discussion on the future landscape of dark web activities, focusing on the perspective of youth. Although specific supporting facts were not provided, the analysis indicates an interest in understanding the potential evolution of dark web activities among young people.

In summary, the analysis provides valuable insights into cyber security, internet regulation, and their impact on marginalized communities. It underscores the challenges in identifying cyber crime, the importance of consistent global internet governance, and the need for improved cyber security habits among younger generations. Additionally, it recognizes concerns for marginalized communities and the urgent need for inclusive and equitable internet governance. The analysis also raises questions about the future landscape of dark web activities, particularly from a youth perspective.

Miloš Jovanović

The internet is a vast space that contains a wealth of resources, some of which are not easily accessible through conventional search engines. These resources are found in the deep web, which is the part of the internet that is unindexed by search engines like Google. The deep web contains content that is not readily available to the general public, making it a mysterious and intriguing realm.

However, there is often confusion between the deep web and the dark web. The dark web is a subset of the deep web, specifically associated with negative and illegal activities. It is a place where individuals can engage in illicit behavior, such as buying weapons or drugs. It is crucial to differentiate between the two and not solely associate them with negativity.

The deep web and the dark web share the common characteristic of housing unindexed resources on the internet. The dark web, however, is just a portion of the overall deep web. It is essential to clarify this distinction to avoid misunderstanding.

While the dark web and the deep web are often viewed as havens of illegal activities, it is crucial to note that illegal behaviors and cybercrime are not exclusive to these parts of the internet. Negative behaviors and cybercrime can occur on publicly available resources like social networks as well. Therefore, it is essential to approach discussions of online security and criminality with a broader perspective that considers the entire internet landscape.

Protecting one’s metadata is also a significant concern for individuals who value privacy and security. Techniques like using the Tor Browser or the onion protocol can help hide metadata, ensuring greater anonymity online.

The responsibility for controlling internet information channels lies with national governments. Geopolitical circumstances have resulted in a fragmentation process on the internet, with different countries seeking control over internet governance. Protecting infrastructure and citizens from cybercrime necessitates traffic control and monitoring.

Investing in technological sovereignty is crucial for nations to have control over their internet space. This involves developing strong agencies and institutions to protect national interests and enacting strict laws regarding data storage and usage. By doing so, countries can ensure they have the means to safeguard their digital infrastructure and maintain control in the ever-evolving technological landscape.

Regulating the dark web or the deep web exclusively is not feasible since they are integral parts of the entire network. Instead, efforts should be focused on regulating the internet as a whole to combat illegal activities effectively.

While technology such as TOR and VPNs can provide some level of data protection, they may not guarantee absolute privacy. It is essential for users to understand the limitations of these technologies and exercise caution when sharing sensitive information online.

Accessing services that are not available in one’s country may violate local laws. It is important for individuals to be aware of and respect the legal frameworks in their respective jurisdictions to avoid engaging in illegal activities.

The fight against cybercrime requires a multi-stakeholder approach, involving collaboration between security and intelligence agencies, governments, and other relevant parties. Current alliances and systems like Europol have made significant contributions but may not be sufficient to effectively combat cybercrime. Enhancing cooperation and communication among different parties is crucial to solving and understanding the complexities of cybercrime cases.

Overall, the deep web and the dark web are intriguing aspects of the internet that warrant further investigation and understanding. While they are often associated with negative and illegal activities, it is important to approach discussions with a balanced perspective that considers the wider internet landscape. By promoting awareness, improving regulation, and fostering international collaboration, we can work towards a safer and more secure online environment.

Alina Ustinova:
Hello, everyone, we’re going to start like now. So I hope everyone who wants to join, join us, and we’ll have a wonderful discussion. So my name is Alina. I am the president of the Center for Global IT Cooperation, where the organizer of Russian IJF and Youth Russian IJF. So and today we’ll discuss a wonderful topic, dark web. I will make a remark that we will call everything we discussed a dark web. But it’s not like the term that usually used to describe correctly what we’re going to talk about, but because it’s common knowledge, we will speak about it. So what we’re going to discuss today, and we’ll try to understand why people basically are afraid of dark web, and why maybe dark web is not so threatening as we think, actually. And in the end, we’ll try to answer the one question. So is it a cybercrime heaven or just another layer of the web, where our society can also find benefits? So we’re going to start with the basics, because people sometimes, they kind of mess with the terminology and think that dark web is actually something that only contains bad things. And they mess it up with the thing called deep web. So our first speaker, Milos. So can you please tell what is the difference between deep web and dark web?

Miloš Jovanović:
So thank you very much. Thanks for organizing this panel. It’s very interesting topic, because we should discuss about the dark web, deep web, and all challenges on the internet. But speaking about deep web, we should say that deep web is a part of internet, which is an index, speaking about conventional search engines like Google, like, you know, who we index and so on and so on. So if you understand how internet works, we see some resources on the internet, which is available, we can easily search. like on Google and so on and so on. But on another part, there are a lot of resources which is not available easily. So we should understand architecture of internet. We have domain name system, we have IP addresses and so on and so on. So if we see internet as a global network and I don’t want to go into fragmentation processes and so on and so on. If you look internet as a global available network in every part of power world, we should understand that there are a lot of resources which are available only via IP addresses. So there are some different aspects how we can control this, what’s behind this, what can we do accessing these resources. And this is really interesting. So speaking about dark web and deep web in our, I would say community, there are a lot of confusions and misunderstanding what is dark web, what is deep web. Many people would say that dark web and deep web are same concepts and speaking about terminology and so on and so on. But I would agree with this. So speaking about dark web, many people think that when we speak about dark web, we generally speak about some bad behaviors, buying some weapons, drugs, and so on and so on. But on another hand, we should underline that they are very similar approach when we speak about dark web and deep web that I would say that this is all about unindexed sources on the internet. So we can do bad things regularly when we visit some other publicly available resources, speaking about Facebook, about social networks, about all other resources which we use every day. So it’s not only when we speak about dark web that this is a bad behavior, speaking about some illegal things and so on and so on. So we should understand how internet works. And I would conclude that if we compare dark web and deep web, that it’s all about unindexed resources on the internet.

Alina Ustinova:
Okay, thank you very much for your answer. And of course, yes, the main concern of all the people that dark web brings only cyber crimes that bring nothing wrong. So our next speaker, Fifi, she will be joining us online. Do you hear us? Yes, I can hear you. Okay, hi Fifi. So my question to you, so in terms of cyber security, why dark web too? for an ordinary user is considered dangerous. Okay, all right.

Abraham Fiifi Selby:
Thank you for this. And as my colleague explained the dark web, it could be, we have the good side and the bad side of it, not only for the criminal aspect of it. But let me address this. Whenever we are using dark web tools, as you’re saying in terms of cybersecurity to the ordinary user, dark web can be very dangerous because we see that users are not familiar with how to use them safely. So how to use the dark webs can be also dangerous. If you are able to use it safely because people use it and they use it for criminal activities and other stuff, but there are some specific risks that it can be seen and involved when we are talking about dark web. One, it could be the malware aspect of it, that is aspect of the cybersecurity whereby there are some distributed malwares on the internet which contain the viruses that throw down around somewhere people also use. We also have scams because using the dark web, there’s a lot of scam because people use it for illegal activities. So we have people that they are being scammed like phishing and scam attacks, phishing meals, and some other phishing as that people may be targeted to the ordinary user. And also let’s see the illegal activity. As my colleague was saying that people would be using it for some sexual aspect and child sexual abuse and materials and other stuff over the internet. And when you also move forward, we also see the aspects of some people who don’t have the capacity to learn how they can use it. This is in a sense that people who are using dark webs in conjunction using the dark web, using with the criminals online at the same time. So they may not be able to see how they can protect themselves. And these are the various aspect of it that it is very cyber-concerned because the ability for you to use it very well, wisely, can also help you protect you. But also, you might also know that dark web tools are not encrypted and they are not protected unlike the normal applications as well. Although people use it for normal deep web applications for general purposes, but they can also use for criminal activities. So the ability to use and also ability to protect yourself. And why is it for the ordinary user is that it is not highly secure and encrypted, whereby the dark web also, like you can be monitored anytime maybe with a third party organization or for criminal offenses investigation. So these are the various concerns that we’ve been raising for the ordinary user because they are very prone to other threats on the internet when they are using dark web because they think that they wanna browse private or they want to access information private. Thank you very much.

Alina Ustinova:
Thank you for input. So does anyone want to add? Miloš want to add some stuff?

Miloš Jovanović:
I just wanna clarify, when we speak about deep web, dark web and so on, we should understand that dark web is just a part of deep web. So speaking about deep web, as I mentioned before, it’s just a part of overall network of internet and it’s majority of course, but when we speak about deep web, when we speak about deep web, all unindexed resources on the internet. So when we speak about illegal things and cyber crime and everything, which is actually trending topic today, we should understand that it’s not only exclusively on the dark web or deep web or public resources, it’s available everywhere. So when we speak about dark web, we should understand that there are many techniques which gives you availability to hide your metadata and so on and so on, because Tor browser, onions protocol and the different techniques speaking about how to hide your, I would say metadata. Yeah, that’s actually metadata. So the main question speaking about privacy, about security is how to secure your own metadata in the concept of security. So we should not make misconfusion and misunderstanding. Dark web is a just part of deep web as we can consider all the resources on the internet, which are not indexed on search engines as a part of deep web, yeah. So, yes, this is the main concern and the main confusion.

Alina Ustinova:
You’re right. So I want to ask Izan, why actually like, we know that people think that dark web only criminal activity, like only people that use databases and steal them and load them there and use it like for some kind of bad behavior. But actually, is there something good in the dark web? What benefits can it bring to the people?

Izaan Khan:
Thanks, Alina. That’s a very interesting question. I feel that the dark web, basically just a bunch of hidden services that are made available, you know, through tools like Tor and so on, can provide benefits that any other piece of technology really that has those anonymizing features or pseudo-anonymizing features, shall we say, would provide to an individual who needs them. And there are many legitimate use cases for something like the dark web to have hidden services or services that only a few people from a tightly knit community can access. And those could be potentially journalists, could be individuals who are researching or communicating in situations of extreme censorship or duress, for example. There are numerous websites, for example, The New York Times, that have mirror websites on the dark web to allow individuals to be able to access that when that content is usually going to be censored from the clear net, as we call it. You know, digital activists as well have many, many different use cases for accessing these sorts of services and communicating. Organization of protest sometimes also happens on these dark net platforms. So I think there is a lot of interesting use cases for this kind of technology. But over and above that, I also feel that in general, people should have the ability to protect their privacy online and they should be able to use whatever services are at their disposal. And this is one of them. And of course, this gives rise to legitimate concerns on the other side of the coin, which we often see by law enforcement, which is that, well, how are we going to be able to tackle cybercrime online? Is all hope lost if we have totally anonymized services? And I would say no. We don’t necessarily have to throw out the baby with the bathwater, as it’s so called, and get rid of every single privacy enhancing technology simply because it makes law enforcement difficult. In fact, there have been many, many successful cases of law enforcement that have taken place in dark net contexts. We saw the shutdown of the Silk Road, and the second iteration of that, and other darknet markets like AlphaBay, where there were drugs and other sort of paraphernalia that were stolen being sold online. We’ve seen other tools by law enforcement, such as open source intelligence or infiltration to get rid of CSAM material on the darknet as well and apprehend those offenders. We’ve also seen basically other hacking techniques, like if there’s a misconfigured server on the darknet, they can take full advantage of that. They can run as well, their own middle relays and exit nodes and sniff content over there as well. So I think there are many different techniques that they can use to fight cybercrime online without having to get rid of that technology in the first place. As I mentioned, it’s always an arms race. If you have a removal of this technology, there’s going to be another technology to come and replace that. What we need is a principles-based approach to how we balance these issues of anonymity and other legitimate use cases for this kind of anonymizing technology, like free expression and so on. So that’s to serve my two cents on this.

Alina Ustinova:
Yes, thank you, Izan. And actually yesterday, we had a wonderful talk with the TOR project, yes. With the actually, I hope he will join us maybe today and express the position of the TOR project because they said like interesting statistics that only in services, it’s like where actually dark web pages exist, it’s like only one to 3% of the whole TOR browser traffic, which means that people access TOR browser specifically not to like do something bad, not to do some kind of criminal activity or to access even the dark web pages, but just to use it as a VPN service, for example, because it encrypts your surfing traffic, yes, surfing the web. So, but technology develops. We see that lots of things appear now and maybe with. technology it can affect both dark web tools and not only in the dark web itself. So my question to Gabriela will be is how do you think how actual emerging technologies in the future affect the whole dark web? Yes thank you so much and I just want to ratify the importance of what

Speaker:
was said before so the dark web and the internet in general is a tool it’s not the enemy and we’re fighting here the criminal organization so the crime on the internet in the dark web is the problem. So when it comes to emerging technologies they of course can play a significant role in the fight against again these crimes in the dark net. The first of all that is again very popular everywhere if you think of rec tech technologies is the machine learning and AI so these technologies can be for example employed to identify patterns and anomalies in dark net activities assessing law enforcement agencies in tracking illegal activities and identifying potential threats. So again you can just think of what’s happening in the banking sector right now you have the QAC softwares that are helping to understand the different money laundering techniques and patterns so this is something that can be reused eventually to seek some sort of criminal behavior and anomaly in the dark web as well. Then you have the improved encryption and cyber security aspect of it so we are talking about developing advanced encryption techniques and cyber security measures that can help protect sensitive data and prevent unauthorized access to dark net platforms. So here again many many different hacking attacks and attempts are of course very much I would say popular. There is a sort of a race between dark net marketplaces right now so if Silk Road 2.0 or Hydra or many others were shut down there was a sort of a competition between other dark net marketplaces that were taking that was taking place and it’s still ongoing. So they’re trying to undermine each other and here of course this is you know something that can be thought of in the future thinking of a solution in terms of improved encryption cyber security. Then you have the blockchain and this distributed ledger technology which again is very I would say popular it’s not a new technology but these can be used to create transparent and tamper-proof records making it more challenging for criminals to conduct transactions on the dark net without leaving digital footprints. Then the advanced data analysis which again is very popular I would say in the commercial internet if you will. So here again we’re talking about leveraging big data analytics which could help law enforcement agencies and of course other actors to undercover hidden connections, track financial flaws and identify individuals involved in criminal activities on the dark net. And of course the collaboration tools are the most important ones today so enhanced communication, collaboration tools can improve the coordination among everyone involved, and of course, work to combat darknet criminal networks altogether. So in Europe, we have the DAS directive a few years ago, which kind of revolutionized, if you will, the overall understanding of cybercrime. So European countries had to open a cybercrime unit within their organizations, which is very important. And this is exactly what I would generally advocate for in every single country to do. And so again, I would say do not restrict the personal opinions online, because again, we’re talking here about different civil liberties and what other speakers were telling about the importance of having the option to be private on the internet. And again, I would say just the focus on the biometric identification of users is, in my own opinion, the wrong direction. I’m seeing several countries trying to implement that type of tooling, but again, the identification of users is, in my opinion, a wrong focus. We should maybe focus on the technology. We should focus on the software companies, on the applications. How are they used? We should assess like having maybe a technical due diligence of the softwares and trying to actually stop them rather than or modify the use of software rather than focus on the users. Thank you, Gabriela.

Alina Ustinova:
I think that’s a wonderful input to our discussion. We actually, let’s say, we didn’t cover one topic, considering dark web, and it is actually the protection of intellectual property, because many of the people, we actually discussed it, of course, yesterday with your project, that they said that many people, of course, you store browser for downloading, like for pirating. This actually messes up with the whole system, the whole connection, because it’s very, very big files to download. I want to ask our online speaker, Pedro, a question. How does the usage of dark web tools and actually dark web affect protection of intellectual property?

Pedro de Perdigão Lana:
Hi, everyone. I would like to first of all greet everyone here. from Brazil. I hope everyone has arrived in this early morning after those amazing IHF nights. But to get back to the issue here, I would like especially to build up on Aizen comments. And I kind of like to use intellectual property as an example for everything. Every thematic that I work on, especially fragmentation sovereignty, intellectual property can be used as something in the middle of it. Because especially when we’re talking about internet governance, intellectual property is at the basis of it, right? So it was among the first most important discussions that we had, that we had amongst civil society, the private sector, the government. It kind of nowadays, it isn’t so much on the highlights, but it still comes up from time to time as something that kind of implements the debate once again. And on this occasion, I would like to use intellectual property infringement as a good example on how deep web and darknets can be weaponized, argumentatively weaponized, and how they are weaponized kind of erroneously as a presentation of the idea that they are something purely threatening, purely menacing, even if the argument is actually absolutely wrong. After all, when you search for intellectual property and deep web, or more specifically, what we’re here calling dark web, darknets, you will tend to think that this is a place created for criminal intent. It’s used only for that. You will see a lot of lawyer firms talking about intellectual property crimes happening on these places. And of course, it is a… a page that facilitates the sharing of illegal copyrighted material. You can find books and other visual contents that are under heavy enforcement on the superficial levels of the internet, especially with those wonderful tools that the entertainment industry have to date, automatically search and take down content, not always illegal ones. Illegal ones also get taken down by this sort of source. And also, some types of severe intellectual property infringements, such as trade secrets, commercialization, really are especially problematic here. But the dangers and infringements that are actually kind, they are actually kind of the same of those that we find on the surface net. And they are even less concerning, considering the sheer number of people that have access to normal websites and those that have access to deep web content repositories. You must remember that copyright infringement is not a problem when just a dozen of peoples are doing it. But a multitude of people affecting through known market failure, the possibility of existence of a certain business, or the possibility of revenue from a creator. And more than that, dark web agreements are actually presented as a paradigmatic example of the alleged dangers of copyright piracy online. So people and organizations use the threats of the dark web to actually enhance and extend the fear on overall sharing of content online. Which ends up just reinforcing even more how these policies are modeled towards rigid and aggressive systems of copyrights. So these illegal frameworks became arguably obstacles to the objectives they promote, because of the informational society reforms that were based exactly on the same idea of how piracy was a pandemic, and what we needed to reframe a bit of the internet potential so it could have a positive impact on the internet. avoid the bigger evil of intellectual property infringements. So the point I would like to talk here and discuss a little bit more later is how we need to be careful on how these ideas around dark web and dark net are presented, are used. So we don’t end up just trading something that is somewhat problematic for something that is systematically and severely problematic. So back to you.

Alina Ustinova:
Yes, thank you for input. And actually I have a wonderful news because I just found out that joining us online is actually one of the tour projects. So I actually think that it will be great to hear perspective from one of the most famous browser that is usually connected with the dark web. But so, Pavel, can we give a word to Pavel Zonov online so he can speak? No. No? Okay. I will go to the tech team to get, but before I go, maybe speakers can discuss, can make a discussion. Then we’ll, yes, we will just discuss about dark web, how we actually can, can we actually regulate it? Or can we actually control some kind of the thing that’s in the web? Because there are lots of policies. There are lots of laws created to govern the internet because we’re all here, but can actually parts of the web that we call dark web be governed? So I ask this question to every speaker. So if anyone wants to start. Okay, I can start. Okay, Fifi, yes.

Abraham Fiifi Selby:
Okay, all right. So looking at the. and regulating of dark web. It’s quite a complex task, and very challenging. But there are some ways that we can regulate, because we must ensure that there’s a law enforcement. And the law enforcement agencies must be able to investigate and prosecute organizations that use dark web for criminal activities, because people can use the dark web to do good things, good research, as my colleagues were saying. And also, the technology aspect, the government company might develop tools that will implement to disrupt the dark web activities for criminal activities, that are blocking access and other aspects. And one thing that we are all doing is education and awareness. We are creating education and awareness. Now, let me give this small scenario that we’ll be able to understand. Despite the challenge in the solution that to regulate dark web, there have been some approach in the various years and some other research that I have done personally, that in some cases, dark web were trying to be regulated. Maybe in 2013, the FBI shut down some Silk Road in the largest dark web marketplace. And also, when we’re looking at in 2020, the UK government announced plans to introduce new legislation that will give enforcement more powers to investigate and prosecute dark web crimes. So we can also try to give much education and awareness. And also, the technology and policies that we can also try to put it behind, in terms of developing new encryption algorithms, that can really help to regulate that. It’s a collaborative effort. And one entity cannot do. We are all involved. We must also be able to be safe on our own use of the online tools and resources, because dark web, as we are saying, it’s not only a tool. only for crimes. You can also use it to do. And one thing I want to say is that in this life, you cannot detect darkness unless you’ve been in darkness before. So it’s very important for us to learn how we can use this dark web so that we can make policy a regulation behind this, as Pedro was saying. So this is my take on it. There are some few regulations that we can do, but it’s a collaborative effort between an institution, we individuals, and stakeholders. Thank you very much.

Miloš Jovanović:
So when we speak about control of our information channels, I mean, traffic flows, and so on and so on, we should think about how to control our all, I would say, internet, speaking about sovereignty. So if we speak about fragmentation processes, which occurs definitely right now in these geopolitical circumstances, we know what’s happening right now in Europe, in the Middle East, everywhere across the globe, and so on and so on, we should see different technological zones. And when we speak about sovereignty, which is a really important topic in China, in Russia, in some countries in Europe, in America as well, so on and so on, we should understand that controlling information channels and traffic flow, I mean, speaking against cybercrime and how to protect your own infrastructure, how to protect your own citizens, and so on and so on, it’s a job for national governments, I would say. So when we speak about internet as a global network, we should understand that it’s a global network, but control of every part is in the hands of local governments, I would say. And this is what China proposed, what Russia proposed, and what other countries proposed. And this is a good example, because when we speak about data, but about potential investigation, controlling and monitoring traffic and so on and so on, we see fragmentation processes, and it’s all about technological sovereignty. So I would give, you know, I think it’s a good example. For example, when you visit China, you are not allowed to use some Western services. When you are in Russia, for example, there is a strict laws which propose that all data of Russian citizens should be stored in the territory of Russian Federation. When you go to Europe, to America, there is a huge discussion about, I would say, Huawei equipment, ZTE, Chinese manufacturing, and so on and so on, speaking about tech industry. So when we speak, moving back, I would like to make parallel with the interim and so on. It’s all about hardware, software, and protocols. So if we want to maintain and to control our national internet space, and our, I would say, information channels, it’s really important that we invest in, I would say, technological sovereignty of every country at the national level. So only if we have strong, I would say, powerful institutions, and forces, and speaking about some agencies, and monitoring institutions, and so on and so on, we will be able to fight against cybercrime and to protect our own interests. Okay, thank you.

Alina Ustinova:
So you mean that protection of a citizen is enhanced in the local government? Absolutely. Okay, so this avenue wants to add to regulation. Yes, Izan, thank you.

Izaan Khan:
I think that’s an interesting question, primarily because we need to sort of define what exactly we mean by regulation, because there are already regulations that exist. It’s like basic criminal law, don’t do crime. So if you’re talking about regulation in the sense of, is there a technological way to be able to control what people do online? Well, as I mentioned, it’s just an arms race. The government can try as hard as it can to be able to take down these unlawful services and activities, and individuals will try to find ways around that. That’s always going to be a cat and mouse game. But in terms of making the lives of law enforcement slightly easier, one interesting example of basically a type of forum shopping, essentially, is that law enforcement officials in many parts of the world are not actually allowed to commit crime in the course of… off fighting crime. And specifically in the case of the dark web, in order to gain trust of individuals who are accused of or being suspected of trading in CSAM material, you cannot try to gain their trust by yourself sending CSAM material to them. Except, unless I’m mistaken, the last time I read in the case of Australia. So a lot of international cooperation centers around the Australian government because Australian officials are then able to go, because they know that they have to be able to gain their trust in order to be able to detect and figure out who these individuals are. And so they are allowed to do that because the judges and the law is drafted in such a way that there is this sort of carve out or exemption. And I think we need to think about solutions like that where you’re able to come up with these sorts of solutions that don’t necessarily involve cracking the technological nut of what Tor and I2P and all of these other services provide, but also enable for a more pragmatic approach towards tackling cybercrime in these sort of contexts, in these anonymous contexts. So that’s, I think, my sort of two cents on the problem. Because when we talk about regulation, we need to talk about what exactly we’re trying to regulate and what mode of regulation are we using. There’s, sure, the law, but there’s also ways that we can regulate through controlling information flows and data retention and stuff like that as well. So we need to recognize what the limitations of each mode of regulation could be. Because if you say, don’t do crime, somebody could still go ahead and do crime. So you need to figure out, okay, is there a technological way that we can deal with this? If there isn’t a technological way that we can deal with this, is there a way that we can make our own lives easier to be able to tackle the cybercrime when we’re going and venturing out into that space? So I feel like there’s different sort of approaches and different layers to this problem of regulation that need to be considered. It’s not really a simple problem, but I’m hoping, and I have trust in our institutions to be able to do that in a balanced manner, basically.

Alina Ustinova:
Yeah. Thank you, Jonathan. That’s actually a very important point you made.

Speaker:
So Gabrielle, you want to add as well? Yes, just a few sentences to what was already said. In how I see it, my profession is to talk about risks and try to mitigate different risks and not go in unwanted territories, let’s put it like this. So when it comes to the dark web and everything concerning this, I would say that it’s a risk in this situation, the abuse of power in the name of fighting crime. So this is something that we should be aware of because it’s something that we should be aware of because data is the new oil today. If you will, it’s not something that is happening from yesterday to today. It’s already like from a decade that we see this type of activities going. And so what I would suggest… suggest is really to focus on cybercrime agencies, on dark web teams that would work actually together with, you know, the academia, with the different, you know, actors in the field. AeroPool, for example, has a dark web team right now that is focusing exactly on this type of illegal activities. Then I would say it’s very important also to report illegal activities. So, for example, you know, Monkey Sees, Monkey Reports in a very, I would say, private manner because whistleblowers are never welcomed in any country. So this is something that should be normalized, if you will. And then, of course, the awareness and the mandatory, as I see it, cybersecurity educational lessons for government people, for everyone involved in data, you know, whether it’s patient data in a hospital, anyone like an administrator in the hospital, the very first person you come and give your ID to, that person needs to go through a cybersecurity, you know, lesson and educational workshop. So this kind of three points that I really feel strongly about is something that is the basis of where we can actually give our input, because through, you know, an agency, we can always, you know, advocate for certain things, for certain techniques, we can learn from each other, and we can help. And of course, whoever is part of the sector already can definitely support the educational lessons. These are very simple, actually, lessons, because you don’t need to be, let’s put it that way, you know, a technical genius to understand certain things. But everyone knows here in this room that the cybersecurity breaches are generally, you know, connected to human breach. So it’s all related. to humans. So we like dogs, or we like, I don’t know, sheep, but you know, you click on a link, you do something, you don’t think that person, you know, is has some malignant thoughts, you know, it’s a lady or it’s a young boy, but you know, this is fishing. So you have many, many different situations that just regular citizens should be aware of, because we’re living in a digital era. And this is not something that is so special anymore. And it just needs to be normalized and put into a system that makes sense for everyone. So everyone should be part of it. And, you know, this type of topic should be just again, normalized, standardized in order to tackle this type of topics in the future. Okay, thank you. And so I was told that Pavel is now can add something as a third project. So please, Pavel, we want to hear your input and your view on the whole dark web theme.

Pavel Zoneff:
Thanks for giving me the space to say a few things. Ultimately, I think we can mirror a lot of the sentiment that has already been expressed today in the sense that there are probably many more positive use cases as it pertains to certainly the use of Tor software, whether it’s accessing our network and onion sites, and some of the other censorship circumvention tools that we provide. So ultimately, for us, we’re helping millions of daily users to securely access the internet and access their right to information and privacy and safeguard their human rights online. So whether that is, you know, from day to day online activity and protecting your rights to say no to non consensual tracking, to in certain parts of the world even be able to access news. So I know onion services have been discussed. And what we always point out is the scale and the statistic that they were referencing earlier. So actually, if we’re looking at the traffic on our tour network, only 1% or a little over 1% are solely traffic that is only directed to onion services. So meaning the sites that are completely confined to the tour network. So that is an extremely small number, especially if you know you want to open up the conversation to potential illicit uses of the tour network. So that is such a small faction that it is really hard to account for any nefarious activity carried online. So what we’re seeing is that our network is primarily used for censorship circumvention for maintaining your right to privacy. And the fun fact actually around onion services is that the most popular onion service seems to be Facebook and news sites, so we’re really seeing that these provide a valuable service and people’s ability to partake and democratic day to day actions. Yes, thank you very much. I think it was important to hear that because people usually associate that sort of browser with very realistic services and I know because we held a session like during our youth Russian IJF. We had a session about dark web, and one of our speakers said that you should not consider like every user who opens their browser that he is intended to do something wrong that he’s a criminal, just for opening the browser, just another browser, and that’s just all. So I think we can move to the major. Yes, you want to add, yes. Oh, just add to that I think this is a very important point that you make that because this is not just tour browser. This goes back to many other technologies such as encryption. I actually had a panel about this just before yours, but the truth is that there is a very powerful force right now that is trying to malign the use of privacy preserving technology, whatever it is, whether it’s Tor or Signal or any kind of other platform that utilizes encryption to make the case that this constitutes some sort of nefarious intent. And that is a very slippery slope. And this is something that we all as a community need to be outspoken against. Because I don’t know, I don’t remember who exactly said that, that there is regulation needed and that they have a huge trust in lawmakers. I don’t think that people across the globe have the same trust in the lawmakers, especially as we’re seeing that a lot of policymakers like the fundamental understanding of how privacy preserving technology actually works to the extent that governing laws are now made that roll back a lot of international standards as it pertains to human rights, access to information and freedom of expression. So we need to all be vigilant and ensure that we continue to have a right to privacy and encryption. Thank you very much.

Alina Ustinova:
Yes, it was a very important point to make. And so we move to questions and I give work to our online moderator, Maria. So we have some questions in the chat. So it’s- Yes. Yes, I can see you. Hello. Good night. Yes. We have one question from Habib Corrida if I read it correctly.

Maria Lipińska:
Can you share your insights on the potential positive use cases of the dark web beyond its negative reputation and how it might impact the future of online privacy and security? That’s the first question. And we want to ask, we want the audience. to share other questions, of course, from the online participants and audience. Thank you.

Alina Ustinova:
Okay, so who would like to answer the question? So the question was, yes, okay, yes, Pedro.

Pedro de Perdigão Lana:
I think I can go on that because I would also like to comment on something that you were debating before. Oh yeah, you want to go back? No, yeah, but I actually, Gabriel and Aizen, I told exactly what I was going to say, and after that, Pedro commented about cryptography. And the thing here is, when we’re talking about regulating dark web and darknets, I think if it’s possible to regulate or not, it’s not a real question, not the most important question, but more precisely, why we need to regulate it and what we need to regulate it, because pointing out more precisely what the problem is and how to tackle it without affecting the rest of the technology is really the scope we have here. The question that has been made about how it might impact the future of online privacy and security is that if we talk about regulating the dark web, regulating the darknets, sorry, the deep web, the darknets, without being careful about the ideas of more legislation, more regulation, stronger institutions, this may end up becoming a problem to those who care about and use these spaces for good uses, good utilizations, such as communication in places where freedom of expression is restricted, and so on and so on. Yes, thank you for your input. And going back to the question, so the

Alina Ustinova:
question was what other positive things can dark web bring to the ordinary user, but I think we actually covered lots of that, including that it gives you basically private connection and freedom of expression in most of the time, because you can access some web services that are not available, for example, in your country, or because actually going back to the conversation with the founder of the Tor browser, you want to add? If you access some services, you know,

Miloš Jovanović:
which are not available in your country, as you mentioned, you violate the laws in your country, you know, so there is a, you know, circle. So how we use technology and I came, you know, to fragmentation processes. So if you want to regulate something, I think it’s not possible to regulate exclusively dark web, deep web, because we see dark web is a part of deep web and deep web is a part of all network. So we should see layer as one level, all network. So now we need some approach, how to deal with some challenges which occurs in geopolitical sphere, because if you protect something in your country, maybe it will be allowed in other countries. So if you access these services, you violate the laws of your country. So it’s not easy discussion from regulatory side. From the technical aspects, you can do almost everything. And speaking about TOR, speaking about VPNs, about different aspects, how to protect or so-called protect your data, traffics and so on and so on. I don’t think that there is a right way and that you are able to protect what are you doing on the network. Speaking about standard stuff, about encryption techniques, about IIS certificates and so on and so on, it’s a huge discussion, it’s complex and so on, but I think there is no privacy on the internet.

Alina Ustinova:
Okay, that’s an interesting thought. So, but going back to the question, I think we actually covered lots of the positive impacts of the dark web, but so, I think if everyone in the audience, like on site have questions, we will do like one question from a site’s audience and one question from the online audience. So do you have, yes, do you have a mic? Please represent yourself and ask your question.

Audience:
Okay, good morning, everyone. My name is Ismaila Jawara from the Gambia and I lead a cyber security community in the country and then we provide training for law enforcement and university students in the areas of cyber security technical research and education. So, I have a question but before that I just want to give a preamble on that like that was this training that we had for one of the law enforcement agencies, and one of the inspectors, you know, officers said, Mr. If a thief broke into someone’s house, and the case is reported to the police, we come check, you know, how the thief broken, maybe the door or the window. And if someone have $1 million or dollars in this account. And the following morning, you know it is $0. How do I know which door or window they break, you know, so, so, so what I’m trying to emphasize here is, you know, the issue of dark web and, you know, regulating the internet and all that. I think, you know, as my colleague said yes it’s important that you know we also not notice the fact, you know, that local, you know, governments and regulators have different opinions and ways of, you know, things that I mean I would say, particular, you know, a wheel on how they want to regulate the internet within their space, but also, you know, I think the main purpose of the IDF, you know, is to for us to have a common ground on how we want the internet to be operated and use globally. You know, so for example what works in the in the Gambia or Africa, you know, should be something very similar to what works for, you know, us or Ukraine or China, because if not what we are going to run, you know, into is that you have countries like China Russia will implement, you know, certain things, sorry to mention, but then how about the already marginalized communities and nations that are already behind, you know, the current, you know, progress of the internet, you know, regards to education and technical support accessibility and all that. How are those people going to fit, you know, into that discussion of, you know, each your own way with your own way, I didn’t have it, you know, and then considering access to information right to privacy and all that so I think I just want to understand how is marginalized communities feel fit into this whole discussion, you know, when they are already behind. Thank you.

Alina Ustinova:
So, does anyone want to answer this question I think this is very important point is on yes. Thank you.

Izaan Khan:
So international cooperation is definitely one, and capacity building is definitely too. So you need to be able to train law enforcement because I think what the point that Pavel from tour made is a really important one which is that a lack of understanding of what the technology is capable of is what leads to really bad policy outcomes and enforcement outcomes. So upskilling and definitely giving law enforcement training on cyber crime related issues, and how to actually works and as 50 probably isn’t there anymore but as 50 mentioned earlier, you know, you can’t fight the darkness unless you’ve actually been in the darkness and it’s very similar when it comes to understanding, you know how browsers like to work you can’t regulate in the abstract you have to actually go in there and figure out how it works and try to, you know, put yourself in the mind of the criminal essentially. So capacity building is definitely a big one and then on top of that you have a lot of already existing international cooperation on fighting cyber crime you know was mentioned previously we have Europol we have Interpol we have office we have a whole bunch organizations that exist to fight cybercrime on a number of different fronts, be it geopolitical, be it on an individual level, be it organized crime, what have you. So definitely focusing on those two areas, both the diplomatic and the technical, would probably be the best approach that not only yourself, but as mentioned, any nation would have to fight this issue of cybercrime on the dark net and understand what is capable and what isn’t. That’s my point of view. I’m not sure if there’s anyone else.

Alina Ustinova:
Does anyone want to add something to the, well, I think that’s it.

Miloš Jovanović:
I mean, speaking about fighting against cybercrime, you know, I participated in some, you know, events in Serbia, you know, we had some accidents and it’s a multi-stakeholder approach. So when you want to fight against some, you know, accident or whatever, to, you know, do research what’s happened in the situation and so on and so on. We had a situation that 17 security and intelligence agencies participated in just one investigation. So it’s too complex, you know, and sometimes, you know, if you speak about Europol, about some different alliances and so on and so on, it’s not enough. You need to go into a multi-stakeholder approach and to communicate with a lot of different parties to solve some problems and to check what’s happening exactly. So that’s just the nature of network and packet transmission and the traffic flows and so on and so on.

Maria Lipińska:
Okay, thank you, Maria. Back to you. Do we have other questions in the chat? No, really, we don’t have any for now. So maybe we’ll ask the audience on site.

Alina Ustinova:
So do we have any questions on site? Yeah, please take the mic. Good morning to everyone.

Audience:
I’m from Sri Lanka. Actually, research shows that most of the millennials have the bad habits of cyber security, in cyber security. parent to the gen X and the older people. So in this context, so actually why do you think young people are drawn to the dark web and what are the activities that they really engage in? That’s my first questions. And my last, second question is, how do you see the landscape of dark web activities you will learn in the coming years? That’s mean in future, in the youth perspective. Thank you.

Alina Ustinova:
So I guess the first question is very interesting, Juan. And I think that personally I will answer that and then give the words of course to everyone. I think that young people are very, they like to see what is forbidden because forbidden fruit is the sweetest one. And they always want to try something new. Yes, yes. And it’s like, and it’s actually because like when you restrict something, it is very interesting to know what your restriction because it’s, especially in the young age, it’s a very kind of a protesting things against the system. Like you want to do this, you want to say, I can do this because I’m young and I know what I do. And the old people out there, they don’t actually don’t know what they’re doing. I will find the right answer. So I think one of the reason is that. And the other, well, we actually have a new generation alpha that has grew fully in the age of internet. It was very developed. So they knew how to use the phone probably before they knew how to speak. So probably because of that, they grew with the opinion that internet is not a threat but it’s actually a very good benefit they have. And so if you don’t know how to use internet, if you’re in the generation alpha, I think that it will be hard for you in the future in the life. So, and they try to use every tool that they can find on the internet. So maybe someone can add something to the point from our speakers. No one? So Ezzan, yes. Yeah, just a quick one.

Izaan Khan:
So usually why people would use these tools and access hidden services would be either curiosity or privacy or necessity. So one of those three things. In terms of the landscape changing, I think we may see technological advancements that would further protect privacy, which would again lead to further issues down the line potentially. As Paul mentioned, there’s a lot of work that Tor Project is currently doing on anonymization services. There are other anonymization services as well that are popping up. So yeah, that may be one force in the landscape. And another force would be, as again, was previously mentioned, to fight against encryption. We will see governments retaliate by saying, we want to undermine encryption in some way or have some back doors. And if we don’t provide those back doors, then those services will not be allowed, effectively making it illegal to use these kinds of services. So we will see that tension play out, and that tension has basically always existed. since the history of the internet is just going to be, we’re not fighting with sticks anymore, we’re fighting with nuclear weapons. That’s what it’s going to be like, I feel.

Alina Ustinova:
Yes, thank you. So I think we’re like actually running out of time. So I will ask every speaker who’s left, because I know that someone already left, to like, to have a closing remark, just one minute, what actually we have discussing. And I guess maybe you can answer the question. So should we like treat, the dark web is a fundamentally dangerous part of the web, or is it most similar to the rest of the web? So the basic question, just your opinion. So Gabriella, you wanna start?

Speaker:
Well, again, as I said before, I would just say that dark web in general is a tool, and it depends on how it’s used. Criminal organizations and whoever has bad intentions to deviate from the law in any given country will do that regardless of whether you have those tools or any other tools. Because what is important here is that the crime that we’re talking here in the dark web is actually the crime offline. It’s just the tool that is facilitating to make it, make it look like something different. You get a nice clear net website where everything is shiny and whatever. So it’s kind of very easy to actually deflect from this type of situations in case if someone has the intention to do that. So the dark web in per se is not, again, the enemy. The enemy is the system that should fight more often and more strongly towards fighting organized crime, because this is, again, just a tool. I’ve spoken many times on different conferences about different cybercrime topics. Recently, I’m focusing on AI-powered cryptocurrency cybercrime, because it’s, again, happening in a very unprecedented way, and it’s very, very quick. So every second something new is happening, 30 millions are laundered, just like that. So you just need to be, I would say, realistic and try to understand that the law enforcement, and many times the politicians are not aware of how the internet works. If you hear some congressional, US congressional hearings, it’s clear that by the questions asked to Meta, Facebook, Twitter, X, all these names, but you see that they don’t understand what’s their business model about. So if you do not understand how they make money, it’s difficult for you to understand how other people can actually use that tool to create, I would say, a dark economy for themselves. So there is actually also a colleague of mine who got a very interesting idea, and I fully support that, is to actually start hiring people, very creative people who should be, you know, from different backgrounds, it doesn’t matter, but to try to understand how their software can be manipulated in a bad manner. So for example, you have, I don’t know, a type of software, can it be misused? Okay, how? And this is actually something that, you know, is a discussion that is happening among high tech startups that are working on AI machine learning type of tools, because again, we’re creating right now tools that can be easily, you know, manipulated into what other people need. So the dark web, no, it’s not the enemy, we should just be more aware. And eventually, I mean, I don’t know if that’s correct or not, but I would like to open the discussion on a registry, for example, of softwares and their official use, and maybe have like a due diligence or technical due diligence to understand the different backdoors, or the different misuse, you know, someone who is interested in child pornography, or anything like that, they will use even games, online games, like there was a case of a pony game. So little ponies, you know, between each other, finding each other on a game. And in the chat, you know, pony, pink pony is talking to the black pony, hey, let’s meet in room number one, you know, and then they’re discussing, you know, a new terrorist attack, or they’re discussing where the trade of, you know, illicit narcotics or whatever, it’s going to happen. So, you know, it’s just the creativity that never stops. So the tool is not a problem. It’s, you know, the different approaches, that is what is important to focus on. Yes, thank you. So Izan, your last remark?

Izaan Khan:
Just to keep it very brief, I’m very glad that that amongst the panelists here, there’s some consensus about the fact that Tor is just a tool and there are many positive and necessary use cases for this technology. And the fact that law enforcement has other mechanisms that exist and it’s not all hope is lost for cyber crime. And yeah, it’s always a perpetual arms race. We’ll probably be revisiting this question in the next 20 years again with a different kind of technology. So we’ll see.

Alina Ustinova:
Yes, thank you. I also have Alain Pedro. You want the last remark?

Pedro de Perdigão Lana:
Yeah, really fast. I would just like to highlight that things are not in many cases, it’s not in situations that they seem really easily defined for sites. So answering many questions that were posed before with just one example that perhaps are also used for sharing academic documentation in an academic ecosystem that is very unjust towards poorer countries. So it is a crime or at least in civil infringements, but it may be less of an ethical problem than part of the science publishing industry. For example, those that are sustained with public funding and still charges are charged for thousands of dollars for access.

Alina Ustinova:
Yes, thank you. And we have left with Milos, so your final remarks. Okay. So as a conclusion, I would give it a strategic approach.

Miloš Jovanović:
My perspective is that we can use all technologies on the bright side, on the dark side, only how we think is right at the end. So, you know, speaking about dark web, about deep web, it’s just the service of internet, I would say, and TOR as an application and so on. So yeah, let’s end with this, that my approach is that we need to strengthen our local institutions and speaking about fighting against cyber crime. So this is the way how we can protect internet globally because we need some processes, we need some fragmentation processes. We will see how it will, and you know, how internet will look like in the near future. So yeah, my approach is that we have to fight against cyber crime with common approach, but on authority as the local governments. So thank you.

Alina Ustinova:
Yes, thank you very much. Thank you for joining us online and outside. I think we had a wonderful discussion. So we can of course talk after session. And if you want to speak more with us, we have a booth in the booth village, Central Global IT Corporation. You can always come and we have a wonderful discussion there. Thank you very much.