WSIS Forum 2026
AI-generated report

Smart Hydrology: Data, AI and the Future of Water Management

15 speakers
Summary

The session brought together experts from international organisations, academia, and the private sector to explore how digital technologies and, particularly, AI can improve resilience to water-related challenges such as floods and droughts . Moderated by Nakul Prasad of the World Meteorological Organization (WMO), participants noted that these challenges are not confined to developing nations, with severe flood events having recently affected even highly developed countries in Europe .

Hwirin Kim (WMO) emphasised that AI is the most transformative technology currently available for hydrological forecasting, a tool that enhances decision-making, but it is not a replacement for human experts . She highlighted examples from South Korea, where AI flood forecasting operates alongside traditional hydrological modelling , and noted an ongoing WMO pilot with Google's flood forecasting system across four countries . She cautioned, however, that AI models are only as reliable as the data on which they are trained, and that the proliferation of unverified information risks causing public confusion . She advocated strongly for open-source systems and equitable access to ensure that least developed countries are not left behind .

James Ehrlich (Stanford University) described the Village OS platform, an open-source orchestration layer that integrates earth observation, hydrology, ecology, and agriculture to design communities around the natural behaviour of water . Tim Smith (CERN/Open Quantum Institute) outlined efforts to apply quantum computing to complex water challenges, including leak detection in distribution networks and water resource management modelling, while running hackathons globally to build local capacity ahead of the next technology wave .

Pierre-Philippe Mathieu (ESA) explained how satellite data from the Copernicus programme is being integrated into disaster management workflows, citing a case in Poland where processing times were reduced to three hours during Storm Boris . He also highlighted how AI is lowering the barrier to accessing complex satellite data products for non-specialist users . Stig Martin Fiskå (Cognizant) described an open-source system built on Sentinel-2 and public data that can predict flooding in England up to 21 days in advance by analysing soil carbon and water release patterns driven by climate change .

Overall, the discussion converged on the view that the future of water management lies in hybrid approaches combining physical modelling with AI, underpinned by open data sharing, interdisciplinary collaboration, and inclusive capacity building to ensure that technological advances benefit all nations equally .

Keypoints
  • Overall Purpose

  • The discussion was convened to explore how emerging digital technologies, particularly AI, quantum computing, satellite observation, and open-source platforms, can improve resilience to water-related challenges such as floods, droughts, and water pollution. The session brought together a diverse panel of experts from international organisations, academia, the private sector, and civil society to share perspectives and experiences. ---
  • Major Discussion Points

  • AI as a complementary tool for hydrological forecasting, not a replacement for human expertise. Hwirin Kim (WMO) emphasised that AI is the most transformative recent technology for hydrology, but stressed it enhances rather than replaces expert judgement. She highlighted hybrid intelligence that combines physics-based hydrological models with AI as the most robust approach, noting that 'AI models are only as good as data on which they are trained.' Real-world examples included Korea's operational AI flood forecasting system used alongside traditional modelling and WMO's pilot with Google's AI flood forecast system across four countries. - Open data sharing, open-source systems, and equitable access to technology. Multiple speakers underlined that the benefits of emerging technologies must be shared globally, particularly with least developed countries and small island developing states. Kim warned against proprietary systems that leave member states without access to source code after projects end. Tim Smith (CERN/Open Quantum Institute) echoed this, drawing on CERN's long history of open science and open data services, and described OQI's mission to ensure the next technology wave is governed collaboratively rather than driven solely by Big Tech. - Satellite earth observation and AI lowering the barrier to actionable data for disaster management. Pierre-Philippe Mathieu (ESA) described how the Copernicus/Sentinel satellite fleet provides routine planetary monitoring with an open data policy. He highlighted a breakthrough in Poland during Storm Boris, where integrating satellite data directly into disaster management workflows reduced latency from 24-48 hours to just three hours. He also demonstrated how AI now enables non-specialists to interrogate complex datasets and generate flood scenario modelling per building in under a minute, improving public understanding and early action. - Whole-system, interdisciplinary design thinking for water resilience. James Ehrlich (Stanford) presented the Village OS platform as an open-source orchestration layer connecting earth observation, hydrology, ecology, and agriculture to inform sustainable human habitation. He argued that the future of AI in this space lies in small, energy-efficient, decentralised systems modelled on natural networks, moving away from siloed approaches to energy, water, food, and housing. Nakul Prasad reinforced this, noting WMO's own shift towards Earth System Modelling that integrates the atmosphere, hydrosphere, and biosphere. - Practical private-sector applications combining open data with nature-based solutions. Stig Martin Fiskå (Cognizant) described River Deep Mountain AI, an open-source tool using Sentinel-2 satellite data and ground sensors to predict flooding up to 21 days in advance. A case study from Shrewsbury, England, illustrated how the system identified that climate-driven soil moisture release - not rainfall - was causing unexpected flooding, pointing towards systematic small-scale interventions to slow water flow as a nature-based solution.
  • --
  • Overall Tone

  • The overall tone of the discussion was collaborative, optimistic, and solutions-focused. From the outset, Nakul Prasad framed the conversation constructively, acknowledging serious global challenges whilst emphasising the opportunities presented by new technologies. The tone remained consistently collegial throughout, with speakers building on each other's points rather than debating. There was a shared sense of urgency, particularly around the vulnerability of least developed countries and real-world disasters such as the Valencia flooding , but this was balanced by genuine enthusiasm for innovation and cross-sector partnership. Kim's note of caution about over-reliance on algorithms introduced a measured, critical voice, but this too was constructive rather than pessimistic. The closing remarks reinforced the collaborative spirit, with Prasad summarising shared themes and encouraging continued dialogue.
Speakers Overview
HK
Hwirin Kim
148 wpm · 12 min
PJ
Prof. James Ehrlich
112 wpm · 7 min
SM
Stig Martin Fiskå
168 wpm · 6 min
PM
Pierre-Philippe Mathieu
154 wpm · 10 min
TS
Tim Smith
157 wpm · 7 min
DY
Dr. Yingkai Zhao
102 wpm · 29 s
NS
Nayab Sayed
160 wpm · 1 min
PS
Prof. Salma Abbasi
136 wpm · 31 s
S5
Speaker 5
175 wpm · 34 s
NP
Nakul Prasad
151 wpm · 11 min
FO
Feoma Ozochukwu
152 wpm · 13 s
CC
Carrie Chow
150 wpm · 34 s
S3
Speaker 3
74 wpm · 8 s
S1
Speaker 1
76 wpm · 11 s
S6
Speaker 6
121 wpm · 7 s

Expanded Summary: Digital Technologies and Water Resilience - A Multi-Stakeholder Discussion

#

Context and Purpose

The session was convened and moderated by Nakul Prasad of the World Meteorological Organization (WMO) to explore how emerging digital technologies - particularly artificial intelligence, quantum computing, satellite earth observation, and open-source platforms - can improve resilience to water-related challenges such as floods, droughts, and water pollution . Prasad opened by framing the scale of the problem: floods and droughts are among the most frequent and severe disasters globally, affecting not only least developed countries and small island developing states but also highly developed nations, including recent severe flood events in Europe . He emphasised that weather and water challenges "know no boundaries" and interconnect all nations , whilst also noting that new digital technologies - including AI, digital twins, quantum computing, remote sensing, and drones - offer a wide array of possibilities for improving resilience . The panel brought together experts from the United Nations, intergovernmental organisations, academia, research institutions, and the private sector, reflecting the breadth of stakeholders needed to address these challenges .

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Participant Introductions

Following a brief round of introductions, the diversity of the group became apparent. Hwirin Kim, Chief of the Hydrological Modelling and Forecasting Section at WMO, described seven years of experience at the organisation leading flood forecasting, water resource assessment, and drought management, having previously served as head flood forecaster at South Korea's Ministry of Environment . Nayab Sayed, CEO of HIP Digital, described his organisation's achievement of 115,000 candidate training days across 71 countries with an 85% employability success rate; wearing a second hat, he also represented IEEE International, an international NGO working across 22 countries on potable water provision, solar electrification, and rural infrastructure, with over 3,000 water points established . Tim Smith from CERN described his coordination of the Open Quantum Institute (OQI), which is attempting an anticipatory approach to the next technology wave by bringing together diplomacy, research, philanthropy, and industry to develop quantum computing algorithms driven by societal need rather than hardware capability . Carrie Chow, from Atos Digital Services Company, represented the Kithwell AI Alliance - an initiative of the Zero Project, set up by a foundation in Austria and the Seneca Trust in the UK - and noted her particular interest in digital inclusion, AI bias, and data equity . Ifeoma Ozochukwu, representing the Nigerian Communications Commission - the telecom regulator for Nigeria - expressed interest in understanding how digital and AI technologies can be applied to water and climate challenges . Pierre-Philippe Mathieu from the European Space Agency (ESA) described his work using satellite data to create new services focused on disaster resilience, working with national organisations to integrate space technology into operational disaster management . Stig Martin Fiskå, Global Head of AI for Good at Cognizant, described the open-source River Deep Mountain AI tool - combining AI, geospatial data, and satellite imagery - which has been tested on 90 catchments and peer-reviewed, with Denmark and the Netherlands now looking at implementation . Professor Salma Abbasi described her work as a professor of Ethical AI and AI for SDGs, with seven ongoing projects with final-year students in the Global South on smart irrigation, satellite data, and resilient food systems, with a focus on women's empowerment at the grassroots . Zhao Yingkai, a student from Zhejiang University, China, introduced himself as studying ecology and as being interested in the combination of environmental protection and AI - a participant whom Kim later referenced when discussing China's AI flood forecasting tool . A participant from Kenya, Rose Natichot Siangani, described the immediate challenges facing rural communities in Western Kenya, which had just experienced a severe dry season and were facing predicted flooding in the coming weeks . She also described herself as founder of an organisation called Carboard International - meaning "dignity" - established to help improve the sustainable life of rural women in Western Kenya. Professor James Ehrlich from Stanford University, joining remotely, described his role as Director of Compassionate Sustainability at the Center for Compassion, Altruism Research and Education in the School of Medicine, bridging engineering, sustainability, AI, and technology . He is also a Senior Fellow at NASA Ames Research Center and was appointed to a task force on regenerative infrastructure under the Obama administration, a role that continued under Biden-Harris. He introduced the Village OS platform - an open-source, open-science orchestration platform that starts always with water .

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AI as a Complementary Tool for Hydrological Forecasting

The first substantive discussion centred on the role of AI in improving hydrological forecasting and decision-making. Hwirin Kim offered the most detailed treatment of this theme, noting that one of the directors of ECMWF had remarked in a morning session that "it's not about AI. It's about resilience" - a framing she endorsed . She stated clearly that AI is "the most transformative technology for hydrology recently" - not because it replaces experts, but because it enhances the ability to make better decisions . She cautioned against the widespread misconception that AI can do everything without human expertise, describing this as "totally not true and a misunderstanding" . Hydrological forecasting, she noted, has always been data-intensive, and AI without quality data cannot produce accurate results . She also highlighted social media as an important data source, noting that two-way communication allows communities to share pictures and real-time information during flood events .

Kim illustrated the complementary role of AI through three practical examples. In South Korea, where she previously served as head flood forecaster, national hydrological services have developed an operational AI flood forecasting system that works alongside traditional hydrological modelling rather than replacing it . Given the limited number of flood forecasters available to monitor over 100 or 200 stations simultaneously, AI serves as a first-pass monitoring tool, flagging stations where flooding is more likely so that human experts can then apply traditional hydrological modelling with greater focus . Digital twins are also being used to produce dynamic inundation maps showing which specific infrastructure - schools, roads - will be flooded and when, making it far easier for decision-makers to order evacuations than abstract numerical water-level warnings . Kim's second example concerned WMO's ongoing pilot with Google's AI flood forecasting system across four countries since 2023, assessing its benefits for national services and its integration with existing broadcasting systems; a report is expected to be published within weeks or months pending internal approval . A third example referenced an AI flood forecasting tool developed by Chinese national services, though Kim noted she lacked detailed information and hoped to obtain more from Zhao Yingkai .

Kim also introduced a note of caution, warning that "hydrology is governed by physical rules and not by algorithms" and that the algorithm alone is not enough . She observed that some researchers believe their AI algorithms can resolve everything and deploy directly into communities without proper authority or validation, which risks causing confusion when multiple unverified information sources issue simultaneous warnings . Her conclusion was that the future lies in "hybrid intelligence" - combining physics-based hydrological models with AI, where physics provides scientific consistency and AI enhances speed, accuracy, and the ability to learn from large volumes of data . From WMO's perspective, AI also presents an important opportunity to strengthen global early warning systems, but success requires open data sharing, quality observation, common standards, capacity development, and ensuring that developing countries can benefit equally .

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Open Data, Open-Source Systems, and Equitable Access

A recurring and strongly held theme across multiple speakers was the necessity of open-source, open-data principles for equitable and sustainable digital water management. Kim was explicit that WMO now fully supports open-source, interoperable, member-driven systems, having experienced situations where partner organisations retained proprietary source code after project completion, leaving member states unable to maintain or upgrade their tools . She called for AI to be "equally shared as open source" and warned that least developed countries risk being left behind as wealthier nations advance rapidly .

Tim Smith reinforced this perspective by drawing on CERN's 30-year history of building open data services and advocating for open science . He described the Zenodo platform as enabling cross-fertilisation across datasets by placing data in a shared, open location where researchers can opportunistically find and interoperate with datasets that were never designed to work together . The Open Quantum Institute, he explained, is attempting to extend the CERN model of openness and international collaboration into the next technology wave - quantum computing - rather than allowing big tech or Western institutions to develop algorithms driven by commercial interests . Pierre-Philippe Mathieu described ESA's Copernicus programme as providing routine, open-data environmental monitoring of the planet through its fleet of Sentinel satellites, representing a mature and freely accessible resource for the global scientific and operational community . Stig Martin Fiskå described building his River Deep Mountain AI system entirely on freely available Sentinel-2 satellite data, public governmental data, and weather data, noting that "Sentinel is free" and the system is not costly to run . Professor James Ehrlich described VillageOS as a "democratised, open source, open science platform" , reinforcing the consensus across public, private, and academic actors on open-source as the preferred model.

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Satellite Earth Observation and Lowering the Barrier to Data Access

Pierre-Philippe Mathieu provided a detailed account of ESA's evolving role in supporting water and disaster management. He described the progression from early meteorological satellites to research missions - such as the SMOS soil moisture mission, which was subsequently used by hydrologists despite not being designed for operational monitoring - and then to the Copernicus/Sentinel fleet, which provides routine, carpet monitoring of the planet with an open data policy . He noted that ESA's core business is creating a long-term data archive, documenting parameters, and steering the scientific community to extract value from this data, whilst also working with operational organisations to demonstrate its societal value .

A particularly significant development Mathieu highlighted was the emergence of new data product types. Rather than distributing highly processed, sophisticated products that require specialist knowledge, ESA is moving towards lower-level "level zero" products and, more recently, embeddings - compressed representations of how machine learning systems perceive the data - which are smaller, more accessible, and directly usable by the machine learning community . He noted the remarkable finding that in this embedding space, radar and optical satellite data - previously considered very difficult to combine - merge naturally, representing a significant breakthrough .

Mathieu also described a concrete operational breakthrough during Storm Boris in Poland, where ESA worked with the disaster management organisation CKB to integrate satellite data directly into their processing chain . By bypassing the standard 24-48-hour satellite tasking and delivery process and integrating data directly, the time from satellite observation to actionable output was reduced to approximately three hours - a breakthrough for disaster responders . He further described how AI is now enabling non-specialists to interrogate complex satellite datasets: by using AI to write Python code that queries Google Earth Engine, he can generate plots from news reports without any programming knowledge, and the next step is AI-driven reasoning that triggers multivariate analysis across temperature, vegetation, and current data . He demonstrated a "level zero" application where AI constructs a per-building flood scenario from elevation, LIDAR, and rainfall data in under one minute .

Mathieu also raised a sobering point about the limits of technical solutions: citing the Valencia flooding disaster, he described how people ignored an early warning of rain because the sky appeared clear, whilst the flood was building in the mountains and arrived as a tsunami six hours later, with the evacuation order arriving one hour after that . This illustrated that even accurate early warnings are ineffective without actionable, visualised information that motivates public response - a point that aligned with Kim's earlier emphasis on dynamic inundation maps . Notably, Mathieu argued that for per-building flood scenario tools, "it's not about accuracy" - a tool "good enough to understand you need to move" is sufficient .

#

Quantum Computing for Complex Water Challenges

Tim Smith outlined the Open Quantum Institute's approach to applying quantum computing to water management challenges, framing it as an anticipatory investment in the next technology wave before it arrives at scale . He was careful to note that quantum computing "is not a panacea" and has "very specific capabilities" , but argued that these capabilities are particularly relevant for the most complex, non-linear problems - of which water management offers several examples .

One concrete use case Smith described was water leak detection in Mexico's distribution networks, where limited sensor data on pressure and flow changes must be mapped across a massive, highly non-linear graph to identify leaks and optimise sensor placement . Another application he mentioned was molecular docking modelling to identify more effective alternatives to chlorination for water treatment, by understanding how molecules interact and predicting how they could work better . He also referenced work at the American University of Beirut on full water resource management modelling using quantum solvers, incorporating multiple system layers and data points . To build local capacity ahead of the quantum wave, OQI runs hackathons in countries around the world, aiming to get local students interested in the next technology wave and to build university curricula that retain talent locally rather than losing it to remote actors .

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Whole-System and Interdisciplinary Approaches

Professor James Ehrlich presented the Village OS platform as an example of whole-system, interdisciplinary design thinking applied to water management. He described it as an orchestration layer connecting earth observation, hydrology, ecology, and agriculture to inform sustainable human habitation and wildlife, starting always with water . The platform integrates satellite imagery, LIDAR, radar, and observational data to classify watersheds, drainage networks, vegetation, and soil sediment profiles, understanding what nature is capable of in terms of water behaviour . A second layer takes physics-informed hydrological modelling and complements traditional hydrological science to identify where water can recharge aquifers and cisterns . A third layer explores millions of candidate layouts for swales, berms, wetlands, recharge basins, and agroforestry, optimising for water security and resilience . The ultimate goal is to create an evolving digital twin of a living watershed, distributed through federated learning across communities in similar climate zones around the world .

Ehrlich described VillageOS as designed biomimetically around mycelial networks - the large fungal organisms under the soil that act as elegant neural networks brokering minerals, carbon, sugar, and water . He argued that the future of AI in this space is "small" - tiny ML, small language models, energy-efficient, and decentralised - rather than large, centralised systems . He explicitly called for moving away from silos of energy, water, food, waste, housing, and mobility, applying whole-system design thinking as nature does . Nakul Prasad reinforced this alignment, noting that WMO is itself moving towards Earth System Modelling that integrates the atmosphere, hydrosphere, and biosphere, and that water underpins all domains including energy, food, health, and transportation .

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Private-Sector Applications: Open Data and Nature-Based Solutions

Stig Martin Fiskå described Cognizant's River Deep Mountain AI system, developed initially with UK public funding to address the country's significant water pollution and flooding problems - including the alarming projection that by 2030, large parts of England will be without drinking water . The system is built on freely available Sentinel-2 satellite data, public governmental data, and weather data, and is grounded with government sensor data on soil, water gauges, oxygen, and phosphorus . Using multispectral analysis, it can identify the sources of pollution and predict future conditions.

Fiskå illustrated the system's capabilities through a case study from Shrewsbury, England - the birthplace of Charles Darwin - where flooding occurs under blue skies with no rainfall . By analysing the holistic landscape of England and Britain, the system revealed that climate-driven temperature rises of two to three degrees cause water stored in soil carbon across miles of land to be rapidly released into rivers, producing unexpected flood peaks . The system can now predict this phenomenon 21 days in advance . Fiskå further proposed that AI could be used to identify where small, systematic nature-based interventions - such as open beds and two-metre riparian buffer strips - could slow water release en masse across large areas, with the added benefit that slowed water allows nature to absorb much of the accompanying pollution . He noted that specific plants, such as hemp for PFAS absorption, could be systematically deployed as part of this approach . The system is already being implemented across UK water companies and is being explored for adaptation in Denmark and the Netherlands, with ambitions to expand further .

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Equity, Capacity Building, and the Needs of the Global South

Several participants brought perspectives grounded in the lived realities of communities in the Global South, highlighting the gap between advanced digital water technologies and the practical needs of vulnerable populations. Kim emphasised that least developed countries and small island developing states face the greatest casualties from water-related disasters yet risk being left behind as technology advances rapidly in wealthier nations . Nayab Sayed described over 3,000 water points established across 22 countries, illustrating the enormous infrastructure gap that digital technologies must address . Professor Salma Abbasi described seven ongoing projects with final-year students in the Global South on smart irrigation and satellite data, with a focus on women's empowerment at the grassroots . Rose Natichot Siangani described the immediate challenge facing communities in Western Kenya, which had just experienced a severe dry season with reduced food availability and were facing predicted flooding in the coming weeks .

Pierre-Philippe Mathieu noted that many disaster management organisations in developing countries have never heard of space data, representing a significant opportunity gap requiring targeted capacity building and education . Tim Smith described OQI's hackathons as focal points for discussions in local communities about what the next technology wave could offer, aiming to get local students interested before the wave arrives and to build university curricula that retain talent locally . Carrie Chow raised the importance of digital inclusion and addressing AI bias and data equity as essential considerations when deploying AI-driven water solutions .

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Key Tensions and Unresolved Questions

Whilst the overall tone of the discussion was collaborative and solutions-focused, several meaningful tensions emerged beneath the surface of consensus. Kim cautioned that researchers who believe their AI algorithms "can resolve everything" and "jump into the community directly" risk causing confusion by proliferating unverified information alongside official warnings . This represents a different emphasis from the perspectives of Mathieu and Fiskå, who highlighted AI's potential to empower non-specialists to access and act on complex data directly . A further tension existed between Kim's vision of large-scale, nationally authoritative hybrid modelling systems and Ehrlich's advocacy for small, decentralised, community-sovereign edge AI , representing fundamentally different architectural philosophies with significant implications for governance and data sovereignty.

Mathieu introduced a notable philosophical divergence on the question of accuracy, stating explicitly that "it's not about accuracy" when it comes to per-building flood scenario tools, arguing that a tool "good enough to understand you need to move" is sufficient - a position that sits in some tension with Kim's insistence that AI models must be grounded in physical rules and validated data . The question of whether existing freely available data is sufficient for meaningful AI-driven water solutions, as Fiskå's work suggests , or whether data quality and sharing remain the primary bottleneck, as Kim argued , also remained unresolved.

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Conclusions and Outcomes

Nakul Prasad closed the session by summarising the shared themes that had emerged: AI as an enabler rather than a replacement for human expertise; the future lying in hybrid modelling combining physics-based and AI approaches; the importance of interdisciplinary, holistic, and systematic thinking; and the need for open data, open-source systems, and equitable access to ensure that technological advances benefit all nations . He noted that the diversity of perspectives - from UN agencies, academia, the private sector, civil society, and grassroots communities - had enriched the discussion and reflected the cross-cutting nature of water as a challenge . Participants were invited to reach out following the session, and the organisers committed to circulating an outcome document summarising the discussion and key conclusions . The session concluded with a shared sense of urgency about the continuing challenge of water management and optimism that the combination of open technologies, interdisciplinary collaboration, and inclusive capacity building offers a credible path forward .

Nakul Prasad
Is around better resilience to managing weather, climate, water -related challenges. So, as you know, I mean, climate -related issues are a big problem. You see year on year a lot of floods, droughts, severe weather events that impact countless people. Among the disasters that strike the world, floods and droughts are among the most frequent ones and also cause some of the most severe impacts globally. And it's not just restricted to least developed countries and small island developing states. We've seen more recently in some of the most developed countries, including here in Europe, we had some really bad floods. We've had events over the last few years. So it's really a challenge that encompasses all of us, irrespective of where we are. because you know in WMO we say that weather, water, these are aspects that knows no boundaries. So it's a challenge that interconnects all of us. So definitely there are these challenges but not everything is negative. We have some opportunities with new digital technologies that are coming up, especially AI is playing a big role, but we also have other technologies, digital twins, more nascent ones like quantum computing and remote sensing, drones, which really offer a wide array of possibilities in terms of improving our resilience to these challenges. So today we have an expert group or our panelists from diverse backgrounds. We have people from the UN, We have people from the other international organizations, intergovernmental organizations, academia, and also from research and private sector. So we have a wide array of experts here. And I think it would be good to get all your perspectives, especially because water is something that concerns all of us in some way or the other. And I think we all have a key role to play to address these challenges. So without taking further time, initially, I was thinking I would do the introductions for each of the panelists. But I think since we are a small group, I think it would be good that we try to also know each other better. And so I would ask each participant or panelist to introduce themselves. So I would like to first call on Dr. Hwirin Kim, chief of the hydrological modeling and forecasting section, to give a brief introduction about herself.
Hwirin Kim
Thank you, Nakul. Good afternoon, everyone. Thank you for joining our session. And not only the speakers, a few participants who are enthusiastic to come all the way from Palax for here. Very much appreciate. As Nakul introduced me, I'm Hwirin Kim, Chief of Hydrological Modeling and Forecasting Section in World Meteorological Organization. I've been working in WMO for seven years now. In August, it's full seven years. And leading the flood forecasting or also water resource assessment and management. Before joining WMO, I have been working in Korea as a Minister of Environment and head flood forecaster. Also doing a similar job, but more focused on flood control, flood management, water management, as well as drought forecasting and management. And I think the gentleman next to me just arrived at the perfect timing because we're doing the safe round introduction. So we very much appreciate joining our session. I'm the panelist and I'm the first one who introduced myself because we are a small group. So our moderator proposed each of us introduce ourselves. Again, my name is Hwirin Kim, Chief of Hydrology at WMO, World Meteorological Organization. Thank you for joining us.
Nayab Sayed
Lovely to be with you and delighted to be here this afternoon. Thank you very much. Come here actually wearing two hats today. So I'm Nayab Saeed, CEO of an organization called HIP Digital, and we've been upskilling individuals on technology and AI for the past five years. Yes, we've achieved 115 ,000 candidate training days in 71 countries to date, and with a big chunk of the program actually tied into employability as well, with 85 % employability success. But this session today is very interesting because one of the other hats I'll wear is I'm part of the executive team for an international NGO called IEEE International, and we've been working in seven different regions across the globe, primarily in the African subcontinent, and with a particular focus on... Our core work is around the provision of potable water, and then we do small -scale rural electrification of villages, and then building out infrastructure for villages and communities. Now on the water side, we are now up to just over 3 ,000 water points, and that includes both the rehabilitation of hand pumps, the provision of solar solutions, and village infrastructure, municipal water distribution networks across 22 countries so far. So especially now, you know, I came here and thought, wow, AI, water, hydrology, I didn't think of that. So here I am, and I'm just glad to be here. Thank you.
Speaker 1
Hi, I'll keep it a bit much shorter than that. I'm a colleague of Nayab.
Tim Smith
Yeah, please go ahead. Tim Smith from CERN. So I coordinate the Open Quantum Institute. It was conceived in Jezda and is now hosted in its pilot phase. We're trying to anticipate the next technology wave. We've all seen technology waves arrive on us, arrive on society, unprepared for society, not knowing governments, academia, not ready for it. Rushing to try and train people in what's arrived around them, trying to find the algorithms, the applications. We want to see if we can do an anticipatory approach to the next wave, because quantum computers are not ready at scale yet, but they have enormous promise in the most complex problems. And I think this one, we can all agree, could be modeling it, a very complex challenge. So what we're doing is we're trying to bring the different actors together. From diplomacy, ministerial level research, philanthropy. industry and trying to see if we can do a collaborative approach to setting challenges, real world challenges to develop algorithms, not from capabilities of the hardware, but from necessity of society. Thank you, Tim, and welcome.
Carrie Chow
Hello, good afternoon, everyone. My name is Carrie Chow. I'm from Atos Digital Services Company, but here at this event, I'm actually representing the Kithwell AI Alliance. It is an initiative from Zero Project, which is set up by the foundation in Austria and also by the Seneca Trust in the UK. So I just had a session earlier about digital inclusion in terms of AI, about the bias and data and everything, and exceptionally interested here to learn from everyone about water. Thank you so much.
Feoma Ozochukwu
Thank you. Good afternoon. My name is Ifeoma Ozochukwu and I'm representing the Nigerian Communications Commission, the telecom regulator for Nigeria. I'm here as a participant. I'm interested in hearing about the work. Thank you.
Pierre-Philippe Mathieu
Thank you. Welcome. Hello. Yes. Good afternoon and thanks again for the invitation. I'm here representing a part of ESA trying to use the data of the satellites we are launching in order to create new services, fusing it with digital technology and with a focus on disaster resilience. And we got a lot of subscription for that from our member states at the last ministerial council. So we are trying to implement solutions at national scale. So we picked up the organization. We are an organization in charge of disasters and we try to educate them and do capacity building with space tech so that they can integrate this technology because the problem is not the technology, it's the integration. Yes, it's Pierre -Philippe Mathieu.
Nakul Prasad
The lady then? She's shy. Youth engagement. We are supporting youth engagement, so don't be shy. You can introduce yourself, no matter what.
Speaker 3
I'm an intern here. I work for WESIS. I'm Anna.
Nakul Prasad
Nice to meet you, Anna.
Speaker 6
Hello, everyone. I'm Alina, and I'm the technical moderator. I'm working for IT. Thank you.
Dr. Yingkai Zhao
Sorry, but I'm just a student of Zhejiang University from China, and I'm studying ecology, and I'm very interested in the combination of the environment protection and the AI. So I've just come to learn some cutting -edge technology here today. Yes, and my name is Zhao Yingkai. Thank you.
Stig Martin Fiskå
Yes, thank you for inviting me. I'm Stig Martin Fiska. I am the global head of AI for Good in Cognizant, Cognizant being a big IT digital provider in the world. We have been driving quite a few projects in this space, working with water companies. We have open -sourced something we call River Deep Mountain AI, which is an off -what -funded initiative, innovation using combining AI, geospatial, not quantum quite yet, but satellite is a big part of this, and it's been implemented, tested on 90 catchments, and it's able to gauge flow on rivers, brooks, and large water systems at scale, and it's been peer -reviewed, so it's really working, and now currently working on trying to get that out of the world. Denmark and Netherlands are now looking at implementing it as well. Thank you.
Prof. Salma Abbasi
Hi everybody, my name is Professor Salma Abassi, and I'm a professor for Ethical AI and AI for SDGs, and particularly interested in working with universities in the Global South on resilient agriculture. systems, resilient food systems, and I currently have seven projects with final year students looking at smart irrigation and how we can use satellite data practically to build more resilient systems, focusing on women empowerment at the grassroots.
Speaker 5
Good afternoon. My name is Rose Natichot Siangani. I work for the Department of Kenya, and I'm also founder of an organization called Carboard International, which means dignity to help improve the sustainable life of rural women in Western Kenya. And I'm interested in this because we have extreme weather seasons and patterns in Kenya. We just experienced a dry season where we have less food now for next year. But again, the prediction shows that we are going to have a leaner floods in the coming weeks. So just to see how we can help our communities. Thank you.
Nakul Prasad
And we have Professor James Ehrlich, who's a panelist from the University of Stanford. James, please go ahead and introduce yourself.
Prof. James Ehrlich
Yes, good morning from early morning Stanford University. I'm Professor James Ehrlich. I'm Director of Compassionate Sustainability at the Center for Compassion, Altruism Research and Education in the School of Medicine, but I also bridge the School of Mechanical Engineering, Engineering, Sustainability, AI, and Technology. In addition, I'm also appointed affiliate to the Stanford Woods Institute for Human and Planetary Health. I'm a Senior Fellow at NASA Ames Research Center. Under the Obama administration, I was appointed to a task force on regenerative infrastructure, which continued staggered, but then continued again under Biden -Harris. We were presenting an open source, open science orchestration platform called the Village OS, which ostensibly is whole system design thinking, which starts always with water. And water is life, and the idea really is to create a unique kind of platform that is capable of understanding the framework for how permaculture is designed around water and how these communities can become self -sustainable. So it's a matter of influencing human planetary health. So there's two sides to the VillageOS software, very briefly. The first is a generative AI design side, which again starts with nature, starts with water, what the land is capable of. And then there's a kind of a future thinking edge AI implementation operation layer. And that's really focusing on sensing and the new era of essentially creating a digital mycelial network, which I'm looking forward to speaking more about. So I'm honored to be here today and to join this esteemed group. Panelists and participants. Thanks so much.
Nakul Prasad
Thanks, James, and thanks everyone who is here and who joined today in person. So, as I said, you know, we want to discuss about water related challenges with an aspect looking at digital technologies, how we can improve our water resources management, because we deal with floods, droughts, but I think the broader water management also is an aspect that we need to cover. So maybe I'll ask a few questions to our panelists. Of course, since we are a small group, feel free to also ask any questions you have to the panelists as well. So I'll start with Dr. Hurenken. So, as you know, I mean, there's a lot of talk about AI and other emerging technologies being used for forecasting purposes, especially floods, droughts, other challenges. So, as WMO, you know, I mean, just to be clear, I mean, just to be clear, I mean, just to be clear, I mean, just to be clear, you deal with a lot of national weather and hydrological services globally who deal with these challenges. What do you think is the role that emerging technology and AI specifically can help with improving forecasting and further with supporting decision making?
Hwirin Kim
Thank you so much. Now, as a two lady who joined later, I'm Hwirin Kim, Chief of Hydrology and World Meteorological Organization, WMO, which is a UN specialized agency for climate, weather and water. I really pleased to have a small group discussion because this morning we had a big session and it was difficult to get knowing who are the audience. And also I had to give only a few chances to the audience that who can ask the question. But as a small group, I feel like a family and I could see it's really diverse from the different reasons and also different organizations, agencies, academia, private sector and UN agencies, all different. And it's a great gender balance. These are the balance that I could see, even use. engagement that we are now focusing on it and empowering gender as well. So I'm happy to see all of you here. And thank you for the questions. And as Chief of Hydrology Special Focus on Modeling and Forecasting, I believe AI is the most transformative technology for hydrology recently. And not because it's replacing the expert or hydrologist, no, because it enhances our availability to make a better and better decision. This morning we talked a lot, and I also organized and moderated one session very much focused on disaster risk resilience. The key word, one of the directors of ECMWF, he mentioned that it's not about AI. It's about resilience. I believe AI is one of the fascinating tool and trendy way that as you may remember a long time ago, we were talking about machine learning. We were talking about all other technologies. Now it becomes AI, but that's supporting us. It's not replacing people. Some people misunderstand AI can do everything. We don't need people. We don't need experts. Just AI, which is cost -efficient and don't need human resources, which is I believe totally not true and misunderstanding. Especially hydrological forecasting has always been data intensive science. I've been closely working with Google and especially focused on pilot for flood forecasting. But as you know, AI with new technology without data, we cannot make a good result, not accurate. Everybody asking to share the data, which WMO has very strong power, having the meteorological and hydrological data collection and sharing and standard. So I believe today we have observation from satellite, from radars, from the river gays and weather models, IoT. Internet of Things, IoT was very hot long time ago, and sensors, even social media. This morning, while we talk about it, the two -way communication, not only the agency providing data, information, warning, but also from the community, they share the information because they are there. When flood is happening, they are there. They are sharing picture. They are sharing the warning was right or not, and where is the casualty, where is the people are in danger. So they are sharing immediately and in real time, which AI cannot detect everything. So it's very important. The challenge is no longer collecting data. It's more extracting actionable intelligence from it. So this is, I believe, where AI added values. I will share with you very quick three examples that I have been collecting with my colleagues in NACUR. One is Korea's cases where I come from. I work majorly. I have been working for many years there as a Ministry of Environment. They are now working a lot with AI, especially they develop already an operationally in the national services, national hydrological services, using AI flood forecasting, which is complementary with their traditional hydrological modeling. Because they have a limited forecaster, flood forecaster. I was a head flood forecaster a long time ago before joining WMO. We have limited people, but we have to forecast in over 100 or 200 stations, which is very difficult to do. Even though all nine stand, it's not easy to handle it. So AI can detect first monitoring, first to try to where will be more likely happening. The flood, of course, it is not 100 % accuracy. After they see the warning and some light, blue or red, the signal, then they start working on the typical hydrological modeling, which bring much more attention. But having, I believe, so it's kind of a complementary. They didn't kill the traditional methodology. Because that also has a very strong, good result. So they're using all two together. And also they're using the digital twin to forecast and predict where will be flood inundation area. So digital twin shows the visibility and making easy to making decision for the decision makers where people should be evacuated. For example, when we give the warning, we usually said this station with how much water level with some number. But if you see the map, which is a dynamic map, not the traditional flood risk map, with the dynamic map and where which infrastructure like the school, road will be inundated and when, it's very visualized and easy to make a decision and evacuate people or be prepared. I also shortly mentioned about you that Google or some of the partners, they're working on the flood hoff. So WMO since 2023. We have been close to work with them and pilot four countries using AI, their AI, Google AI flood forecast system. to see how it can be beneficial for the national services, how it is working with the existing broadcasting. What about their pros and cons? The report will be finalized soon, I believe, within weeks or months. It depends on internal approval, but it's almost finalized, and hopefully we can publish that soon. And the third one, I heard a student from China, and they also developed some fresh broadcasting AI tool, which I don't know much detail because I have not received much detail information from them yet, but I researched by myself and found one of the good examples that national services is already using it. I hope we can get more clear information from them, or a student from China can help me with that. But however, I would also offer one word of caution. The hydrology is governed by physical rules and not by algorithms. The algorithm alone is not enough. In the morning session, I felt a little bit danger that people are working, especially the researchers. They think what they develop AI algorithm can resolve everything. And they can jump into the community directly. They can do whatever they want, which is not true. AI models are only as good as data on which they are trained. And also, we know that there's authorities, there's national voices. If so many information share at the same time, which cannot trust 100%, it just causes more confusion. And people will receive so many information at the same time, and then they will not show which one is correct, which one they should follow. So that's one of the critical points that I believe we have to be cautious and work closely together. And I also believe the future lies in hybrid intelligence. Combining physical -based hydrological model with AI and physics provides scientific consistency, I believe. So while AI enhances speed, accuracy, and the availability to learn from a large volume of data, but together they produce more robust forecasting than either approach alone. So from the perspective of WMO, AI also presents an important opportunity to strengthen global early warning for all initiatives, which WMO is one of the leading UN organizations. But success will require more than algorithm, as I mentioned earlier. It really depends on open data sharing. I mentioned again that data is very critical and also quality observation, common standards, capacity development, and ensuring that developing countries can also benefit from these technologies. What we see that some countries, as I mentioned, some of the countries, they develop very quickly and they run, they fly. But for the rest of the world, they don't. there is a least developing country that they do not really, if we don't share, if we don't support, they will be left behind. And as colleagues from Canada just mentioned, they have a drought issue. And then they will soon have a flood issue. But we are here to support not only the rich developed countries, but we should also support least developed countries and small islands who are really vulnerable and having really big casualties every single event, water risk event. So I believe the AI should be equally shared as mentioned, open source and open system. And I believe a quantum that also SELIN is working for everything is open source, which we truly support and WMO trying to make open source system a model. So members will not face after project finish because we have been experienced several times. Once project finished, the partner only has the source code. They never share with our members. And then what happens? It can be difficult to maintain, difficult to update, difficult to upgrade, unless we have to pay for the partners, again, who has all the source code. So we don't want to repeat that situation again and again. So now we fully support open source system, interoperable system, members -driven. I hope this is happening soon. So the question is not whether AI will replace the hydrologist. No, it will not, as I mentioned earlier. The real question is how AI can empower hydrologists, experts, decision makers, researchers, and all our partners, stakeholders, to provide earlier warning, better decision, and save more lives, protect lives, foods. I believe that is where AI can make its greatest contribution. Thank you for your attention. Welcome to your network.
Nakul Prasad
Thank you, Hwirin. I think very comprehensive answer just be free to summarize what you're trying to say is that AI is not going to be a replacement rather something that enable and improve most of our processes which I truly believe in and of course it's also the future lies in hybrid modeling right both physics based and AI based models working together. So thanks a lot Hwirin once again and I'll move on to our next panelist. So James you you talked a lot about the village OS I mean we had some discussions I found quite impressive but all that you know such a big platform which integrates data from so many different sources it's it's a challenge so tell me what are some of the key challenges and opportunities in building you know interoperable and user -centric water information system so village OS is all about the data and bringing in diverse stakeholders, diverse data sets. So that would mean that you need to have something that's interoperable, right? And something that also integrates all the different information that's available. So I just want to hear from you briefly. What are some of the key challenges and opportunities that you see in building?
Prof. James Ehrlich
Absolutely. Thank you so much. Thank you so much, Akul. So, you know, quite honestly, we believe the next frontier with AI and hydrology is really designing communities around natural behavior of water. So it really is understanding how we can build on these predictive models, you know, for flood prediction and forecasts and drought, but also focusing on infrastructure. So the key thing with the Village OS is it's an orchestration layer that is connecting earth observation, hydrology, ecology, agriculture, but most importantly, it's informing human habitation and wildlife. So we take a step back and we understand, again, this idea of indigenous wisdom and permaculture design using a democratized, open source, open science platform, which uses, and I think this is a great point from the last speaker on the idea of the complementary nature of really understanding both the ground and the land, that the water is the water flows from and how it behaves, and then integrating that across. the wider areas. of classifying watersheds, drainage networks, vegetation, soil sediment profiles. It's really trying to understand, again, what nature is capable of in terms of then understanding the prediction models from the satellite imagery, from LIDAR, radar, from observations. We then take that to a second layer, and the second layer is to take the sort of physics -informed hydrological modeling and complementing, again, this whole idea of the hydrological traditional science so that we're really respecting the accelerating calibration, uncertainty, optimization, to get to a point where we have this opportunity to see, where water can be recharging aquifers and cisterns and be actually this precious resource, which it really is. We then take that to the next step and we marry this to this sort of third layer, which is where the village OS open source and really everything begins with water. And this really understands the sort of myriads, millions of candidate layouts for swales, berms, guilds, wetlands, recharge basins, agroforestry, optimizing for water security and also for risk and resilience. And that's the key part about both the design side and the operational side for the village OS software. And then ultimately, you know, the goal is. To create a an evolving digital twin of a living watershed and how we can then distribute that through federated learning across. different communities in similar climate zones around the world. And this goes back to the kernel of the VillageOS software, which I mentioned before, is designed biomimetically around mycelial networks, right? Which is the large fungal organisms under the soil, which are these really elegant neural networks, which are brokers of all different kinds of minerals, carbon, sugar and water allotments. And so it's really understanding this low energy, eventually edge AI, low power, decentralized data sovereign communities that where we're focusing on AI as really human planetary health. That's really where, from our perspective, the future of AI is small. It's tiny ML, it's small language models, it's energy efficient. So, yeah, there's the whole tech stack and a technical architecture behind VillageOS, which, you know, it really looks at not only the different stack and threads, but it's also interdisciplinary domain expertise. We're trying to get away from the silos, right, of energy, water, food, waste, housing, mobility, and being able to look at, just as nature does, whole system design thinking. So I'll leave it there. And again, I'm really grateful to be part of this very important
Nakul Prasad
Thanks, James. And yeah, I agree. I mean, even from WMO's perspective, you know, now we are looking at what we call Earth System Modeling, right, really taking in all the different elements, the atmosphere, the hydrosphere, the biosphere, how they interact with each other. So I think it really aligns with what we are also trying to do with VillageOS. And I think we really look forward to see how it progresses and how it evolves and the different challenges that it can. And as you said, you know, interdisciplinary domain expertise is key here. You know, really getting away from silos. Water is undercutting all these domains, energy, food, health, transportation, you name it, water is everywhere. So I think really having that interdisciplinary domain expertise is key as well when we are looking at system -wide modeling or, yeah, system design thinking we are doing things. Thanks, James. So I'll now move to our next panelist, Dr. Tim Smith from the One Quantum Institute, CERN. Of course, I know you're not a hydrologist by background. But, yeah. You know, I mean, CERN, as you know, of course, we all know for the... research that they're doing in nuclear physics, but maybe you are not aware or maybe you are aware that the World Wide Web was also invented at CERN. So as you'll see, open source, open access, equitable access, data information is something CERN really values a lot. So you work with a lot of member states as well. So just want to understand, you know, how can countries strengthen digital capacities and partnerships? Because OQI is all about partnerships, right? You said you deal with private sector, you deal with ministries, you deal with human to help accelerate innovation. Of course, in this perspective, we are looking at the water sector, because I know you also deal with all the different SDGs and trying to see how quantum computing can address those challenges. So from your experience as OQI or CERN, like how do you think countries can strengthen their digital capacities and partnerships?
Tim Smith
Well, I think the first thing is that we have to be very careful about the digital capacities and partnerships. We have to be very careful about the digital capacities and partnerships. We have to be very careful about the digital capacities and partnerships. We have to be very careful about the digital capacities and partnerships. We have to be very careful about the digital capacities and partnerships. We have to be very careful about the digital capacities and partnerships. We have to be very careful about the digital capacities and partnerships. We have to be very careful about the digital capacities and partnerships. We have to be very careful about the digital capacities and partnerships. Thanks so much for the question and yes setting the scene I do come from CERN that's not why I'm here but being from CERN I've been an advocate of open source years we built open data services 30 years ago for the world for we've been advocates of open science so I'm delighted to be amongst amongst like minds so on that side we have built things that can be used by everybody whether they be systems to be implemented or services like Zenodo which can be used and is used by every science around the world which is actually one of the keys to data sharing is putting things in the same place where people can opportunistically find them you can get the cross fertilization and people then can can openly access and try playing and interoperating with different data sets that were never designed to be together to be together but they have the access to them and then they have the creative But why I'm here, the Open Quantum Institute, we're trying to take the CERN model, the CERN model of openness, sharing, international collaboration into the next tech wave. Instead of having big tech or the West developing algorithms that are adapted to what they are trying to sell. The question is, could you start from the other end and could you find the challenges that new tech could be addressed towards? Can you design algorithms that actually address those challenges? So back to your question, we're doing this not by just engaging with the current actors. We're trying to do the capacity building such that everyone could come to the table and discuss the governance of the next technology wave. Everyone can. We'll arguably be working on smaller scale implementations, exploring algorithms that are relevant to them. So we're doing that through challenge -based investigations. We're doing appeals for use cases where the use case has to be in a country with a national institute, with a local actor that wants to implement what they find. And then you bring in the other actors, the diplomatic, the tech actors, and try and help them to see if the computational challenge that they're facing is actually addressed with quantum computing. So that's the approach we're taking. We've come up with quite a few relevant things. As you say, I'm not a hydrologist, but one of the challenges is water leak detection in water distribution networks in Mexico. So they've got some limited sensor network. They're seeing that if they can sense the change of pressure and flow, they can see some of the water. But it's a highly non -linear problem to map in a massive graph. So the complexity goes up with all of the different elements in the graph. So we're bringing quantum techniques to that to see if that can rapidly assist the identification and also the prediction of where would be better to place the sensors. That's one way of doing it. Quantum computing is not a panacea. It will not wipe out everything that's classically at the moment available. It's very specific capabilities. And we're looking at where they can be applied. And one of them, for instance, is in molecular docking modeling. Can we work out what how to extract pollutants more effectively by different chemicals? Can we look for replacements for chlorination? There are all sorts of ideas that if you could understand the molecules and how they currently work and how it predicts, how they possibly could work better, you could then start programs of experimentation down targeted routes that would be more efficient. talking also about water resource management the aquifers and things there are there is another challenge that the american university in Beirut was looking at to see if they could do full full water resource management modeling taking all the different system layers into account and then putting the complexity of having so many different models so many different data points into quantum solvers we have lucky to say so just to finish on the the crack capacity building one of the other things we're doing is running hackathons quantum hacker phones quanta thins in countries around the world to try and see if we can get the local students in interested in the next tech wave before so that then the the local universities that are building up curricula can actually be used to do the same thing so that they can actually do the same thing and then actually then see challenges that are relevant and see local industry that's interested in taking those students locally rather than remotely. So we're trying to run Hackthens as focal points for discussions in local communities of what the next tech wave could do for it to be introduced to local populations.
Nakul Prasad
Thanks, Tim. And thank you for also running us through how OQI works. Also, I think it's the same spirit that CERN follows in terms of open source, open access, and really engaging with the local communities to understand the problem and looking at it from the other side rather than from, as you say, technology side of things. So thank you for those points. Then we move on to Dr. Pierre -Philippe Mathieu from ESA. Of course, ESA also does a lot of work in terms of collecting data of the earth. So, you know, especially floods. droughts, these are all aspects that you also monitor or work on. So how do you think digital technologies can help with the collection of such data, hydrological data, its integration and also sharing of this data?
Pierre-Philippe Mathieu
So just to come back to basics, one of the core business of ESA is, of course, to build, launch and operate satellites. And so we developed a fleet of satellites. It started with metrology, geostationary satellite and LEO satellites, where we are almost reaching the point of having a movie on the Earth these days. And recently, and then we moved to the research. So we created a very sophisticated mission to measure some parameter, but just for understanding, for example, the role of aerosols in climate, how the sea ice is moving. So not monitoring, but research. There has been a byproduct of that, like the mission SMOS, which was measuring soil moisture. It was also used by hydrologists while it was not operational. So we tried to make the most of this mission. We also discovered new properties, new things you can measure that the mission was not designed to do that, like the ice thickness, et cetera, with the soil moisture mission, things like this. And then came the era of Copernicus, which is a flagship program of Europe, which invested into a fleet of what we call sentinels. And these missions are really there to do the equivalent of meteorology for the environment with an open data policy. And it's very mature right now. So we have routine monitoring of the planet. So it's almost carpet monitoring, these ones. We are not looking for innovations. But a lot of science comes out. Because you need long time series of things you don't change. Surprise, surprise. So we have, that's our core business, to create this database, to create the archive, to document the parameter, to steer the scientific community in order to squeeze the juice of this data. But we also move to application, we want to show the value of this data for society. So we work with organizations like these ones. This is not our mandate to inform decision makers, but to inform the organization that informs decision makers. So that's why we are not hydrologists. But we try to talk to that community, constrain their model with as much data as possible, lower the barrier for entry of this data, create new products. For example, we're creating sophisticated product that we call Level 3, which is the physical variables. We realize that the model and the AI doesn't need that because the signal is almost in the radiance you measure. so there is a new generation of product coming up level zero almost straight from the sensor and even the new ones still in development called embedding this is how the machine sees the data and you better distribute that these days because that's what the machine learning community is using it's smaller, it's compressed it's really compressed knowledge and in that space of the machine you can compare radar with an optical which is mind -blowing because this was the holy grail the radar community is very complex the optical you understand straight away in that space they just merge totally so they are very exciting stuff there on the air but to come back to the application so we work with this community we develop workflow chain etc and more recently we created a program just dedicated to disaster management to work with with the and The organization in each country which are in charge of crisis management. Because they are not using our data, most of them. Surprisingly, some of them never heard about space. So there is a huge opportunity gap there. So there is a capacity building aspects and educational aspects. And then there is the jump from research to operation, which is exactly where I'm working today. Which is creating this pipeline of you have the research world here with very fancy products. And then the people in operation who says this is distraction. I don't want to hear about that. And then we come with some money so that these providers can actually mimic their product with their standards, their jargon. So that they can trade almost for free. And then they love it, of course. Just in Poland, for example, when there was the storm of Boris. we managed to put iSight together with the organization called CKB doing the disaster management. And when you order data from a satellite, you go through a whole process of tasking, you compete with the other, and then once you have the data, it comes back to a ground segment. And this process can take 24 to 48 hours. So the latency issue is a huge issue. You can pay and get faster, as in any cube, but still faster is not fast enough for them. So what happened is that they were very closely with the provider, integrated directly their data into the processing chain, realized they didn't need these products, which were too sophisticated. They just needed the contour sometimes. And this could reach the people in three hours, which was a breakthrough. And then you see all these fast responders with the map. So we are really working on putting this oil between the two of us. Between the operation and the... and the provider, if you want. And AI plays a key role there that I illustrated this morning in lowering the barrier for entry to these products. I tell you this anecdote. I find it fascinating. I'm just playing with codecs and clothes all day long. And I don't speak Python. And the Googlers engine use Python to talk to the data. But once you master that, you can talk to any data. So by not talking to the AI, which talks to the Python, which talks to Googlers engine, I can plot anything. I see a news, I put the news in the chat, and I get a plot from the news. The next step of this is the reasoning. What happens if this and this happens? And the AI, could then trigger a bunch of multivariates, like an anemone, or you would look in temperature. You would look in vegetation and currents. It could do that. So I think we are at a breakthrough there where an individual who is not an archaeologist, we need the expert, that's for sure, could actually interrogate a data set which he doesn't even know how to access because the AI built me the interface, the API, the MCP server, and start building reasoning scenarios, scenario science with it. So I find this fascinating. So what I show this morning is a very level zero application of this. You have data of elevation model, you have data of LIDAR, you have data of brain, and the AI constructs in less than one minute a scenario of flooding per building and then make some statistics. So this team of AI was really impressive. And I stress again what I stressed this morning. It's not about accuracy. Nobody can... It's not about accuracy. It's not about accuracy. But it's good enough to understand you need to move, because we have seen in some use cases like Valencia, there was an early warning of rain, and people looked at their phone, they looked at the sky, it was sunny, so they didn't act. When they realized what could happen, they could act. And this app enables you per house to understand what could happen. Because while they didn't act, the disaster was unfolding in the mountains. The river was building, and then the flood arrived as a tsunami of flood six hours later. And it was too late, of course. And the order of evacuation arrived one hour after that. So there is clearly a problem of, even with a warning, the acting, and I think it helps as well. I'll stop here, because I need to do.
Nakul Prasad
Thanks, Pierre-Philippe. And good to know. I mean, of course, we all know the Copernicus and the Sentinel satellites, which really helps a lot of the, of course, the metrological, but also other communities globally. I think one point that I found interesting, you said, is AI can help lowering the entry barrier for the data and for the products. So that's something really interesting.
Pierre-Philippe Mathieu
Yeah, I can just say a word about this because I find it so fascinating. The people we talk to, they invest in gloves, helmets, etc. They never invest in the software. But with that technology, they can talk to the software. And that's really a game changer.
Nakul Prasad
Thank you, Pierre-Philippe. In the interest of time, we'll move on to our final panelist. I'll sort of pose a similar question because you heard from international organizations, you heard from academia, you heard from research institutions, from private sector. What's your point of view? You know, how do you see digital technologies really help improve, you know, the collection of all these different data sets, integrate all this and then, you know, help sharing it? I mean, you were talking about some open source platforms and so on. So what's your experience as a private sector?
Stig Martin Fiskå
Yes, it's quite interesting listening into all of this because we're kind of in the middle of all that. We've built systems starting out in the UK from public money. The UK has a huge pollution problem. They also have flooding problems. They are connected, obviously. They have soil problems. And they just gave us this task on how can we figure out how to measure where the pollution is coming from. Everyone is agreeing that it's polluted, the water, so we cannot use it. And by 2030, large parts of England will be without drinking water. So we spent about 18 months building an open source system built on open source data. It's using Sentinel -2, which is available. It's using public governmental data that is available, weather data that is available. It is grounded. That is important to add. So the UK government has a lot of policies around sensors, both in soil and in the water gouges, but also water sensors on oxygen, phosphorus, and so on and so forth. So it's grounded, but we're using space and multispectral analysis to understand where this is coming, and more importantly, how we can predict what's going to happen. So I'll tell a small story of a place where Darwin was born, just to make this come alive a little bit. It's called Shrewsbury. It is flooding when there's blue skies. high temperatures and nice weather. There's not been rain for a long time, and it's flooding by two to three meters somewhere about. So this beautiful, romantic city is completely flooded. The river just raises up two to three meters, and nobody could understand why. So we took this technology and the learnings from it, and we looked at the holistic image of the whole island of England and Britain, and we looked at the fact that climate change is actually affecting this. So we're able to look at how the water is falling down from the Cambrian mountains, how they're flowing downriver, how they are being captured into farms and other lands, and how the carbon in the soil is holding that water. Very important mechanism. Now, because of humans, we have removed a lot of small obstacles, paved over things. We have made it very smooth so we can do farming, all that kind of thing. So when climate change comes around and the temperature suddenly rises by two to three degrees in a blue sky day, all of that water for miles and miles is released from the ground and floods the river. Now we're able to tell that society 21 days in advance that this is going to happen. What I further more would like to do, which we haven't done yet, is what is a theory that we can most likely use AI and the same kind of thinking to actually say where we can do this multiple small systematic, like the professor was mentioning, small interventions that actually slows down the water again. Now, we are working also with a nature based solution. We are working with a natural based solution. We are working with a natural based solution. We are working with a natural based solution. We are working with a natural based solution. We are working with a natural based solution. We are working with a natural based solution. We are working with a natural based solution. We are working with a natural based solution. We are working with a natural based solution. So that's a hard thing to do. And it takes three to five years to get results from it as well. But if we can give farmers and landowners and cities an ability to say, if you just have an open bed here, if you have some two meter strips along the river, having some bushels and some stones, and we do that en masse in a large area, I'm pretty certain we can slow down the water released when it's released. And it has the added benefit like nitro solution. When water is slowed down, nature will absorb a lot of the pollution that's coming along with it. Now, we can also then systematically say something about which plants we do so they can absorb some of that. We know hemp will absorb a lot of PFAS, for instance, and so on, so forth. So that's a systematical approach that we can use from a very holistic eye. It's something we're proponing. We're not trying to to indeed bring this further to other places in the world. This was built by, yes, the rest of the world. tax money though so it's not a big tech thing uh taking it further uh taking further to europe for the moment because they are willing they have the grounding i would love to take it into the the other parts of the world this is doesn't take a lot it's not costly to run sentinel is free uh we can do all of those things what we do need is people to help us to guide us in there and also the grounding right there are differences so we're currently working very very early in the netherlands and denmark and while the problems are mostly the same there are variations that are important to consider so that's kind of where we are at uh trying to compound all of these uh ideas and needs uh yes we need more data but we were able to do something that's very meaningful and is being implemented uh across the UK in the water companies.
Nakul Prasad
Thank you Martin. I mean just to summarize i guess what you're saying is I think what you're looking at is also a post of different problems, right? The pollution, the water level rise, which is further interlinked, sea level rise and changing climate. So these are problems that you really need, you know, an analysis of different data sets, different domains. And I think you're right to say that. And expertise as well. No doubt. And I like the question from Stanford saying the systematic approach, looking at a holistic, systematic way. So I think that sort of interlinks to what James was also mentioning. So I'm sorry, we'll have to cut short our session. I was hoping we could have a bit more discussion because we have another session to run off to. But thank you all for joining us. Of course, feel free to reach out to us. Any questions that you have. And we will also be circulating outcome documents, just summarizing the discussion, some key. outcomes and it was good to hear such a wide perspective of different participants, audiences from different domains and yes, water is a challenge that I think will still continue to be for all of us and we hope these discussions take us further to address some of these challenges. With that, once again, thank you all for joining us and wish you a good rest of the day and with the upcoming sessions in this December. Thank you.

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